You Guys Could Nerf Soul Assault Anytime Zos!

Drummerx04 · August 2017

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

It takes you merely 18k stam to block a full soul assault.

My magicka dk pvp build has that amount of stam which is also capable to accomodate more situations (roll dodge, break free, that usually require more stam on magic toon)

EDIT: words in bracket for clearer concept.
EDIT2: I'm not even running full sturdy. Including one hand and shield passive + 1 sturdy; my block cost reduction is 40% flat.

Today I sucessfully blocked two Soul Assaults (different times different players). Both kinda deleted my stam pool but I largely survived that blow with the spec I quoted above. Blocking that thing will mitigate at least 50% of damage even your don't have protection buffs with you. I can't manage to find stam draining diagram for my two blocking aforementioned.

Whooptydoo... you survived SA with one of the more tanky builds in the game.

If you think 5 light spinner and 2 heavy bloodspawn plus a sword and board all divines cept head is sturdy, is one of a more tanky build. Then you might need to look carefully into those real tanky build.
By the way the tankiest build is double even triple ward spamming sorc...

EDIT: sword and boards are part of silk of the sun set.

You use S&B and have 18k stam. So yes, you can block it with ease. Now, have you tried to block it with a bow in medium armour?

I thought the OP was talking about how overpowered and unblockable it is. Well if you have to block that with bow how about go cloak after 2 secs? I bet 2s of blocking won't drain 18K stam even on bow right?

Ummm, how does a stamsorc or a stamplar go to cloak?

It's not "overpowered", it is poorly designed, as in, it is useless against certain builds and extremely powerful against other builds.

stealth pot, or try to find something to block LOS.

I partially agree with your point (about the design).

I am not a zergling, so no stealth pot for me, i need speed pots. There's no way to block LOS in BG because if you camp LOS the enemy will just take the objective and win.

That's why it should be interruptible.

Lol, no reason? How about that would leave the skill complete useless, like you know, it was when that was the case. Only change the ult needs is to space the ticks a bit so it doesn't drain too much Stam. And that is it.

It is already useless against permablock and shield-stacking builds. Adjusting the stamina drain is nice, but it will be even more useless against permablock builds, unless that's how you want it to be. My proposal is to increase the damage tick through block and make it interruptible, so that it actually promotes skillful plays. I don't use that poorly designed skill, but if you just want to just reduce the stam it takes to block, I will take it, but I believe my proposal might be better for you.

It's not useless on permablockers, and even if it were it doesn't really matters, you just target someone else. And you can't increase the dmge is far too strong now. Making interruptable will legit destroy the skill, or you don't remember. A single crushing shock will counter an ultimate, thats ridiculous.

You dont remember either. If you did, then you would know that interrupt wasnt the only thing that was changed.

And no its absolutely not ridiculous. Thats called skill. Something u are unfamiliar with. A lot of abilities, ults in the game can be completely countered by one skill/mechanic. That doesnt make them useless. Its for people to react and use their brain to either defend using their counters or find a way around the counter when on offense.

Ok, so first I never said it was the only change, tho surely the most important one. Second, you don't know who you are talking to, so please refrain to call me out, or if you want, and play on Pc Na, add me. @San.tii and we can further discuss how unskillful I am.

And finally, there is no display on skill being able to iterrupt a 4.5s channel, gap close, bash, finished, crushing shock, finished. This goes for you @hmsdragonfly, and @DDuke too. You are asking for a counter, but you are not considering that picking this ult actually means to give up on stronger, and more useful on group play than Soul Assault, like literally any other is. Of course for 1vX this skill's pretty strong, but for group v group? nah dude, almost anythng else is better. Someone's Sa you? your team focus him and he's dead or got to stop.

There is absolutely a better display of skills in bashing soul assault than casting it on a dude who happens to not run S&B and get a free kill for yourself. You have to set up a burst combo and then outplay your opponent if you want to kill them with DB, Leap or Meteor, but that's not what you have to do with SA, you just cast it and it's a guaranteed kill. Bashing SA is like bashing Jesus Beam. I remember watching Jack Danielle's stream, and there I witnessed the most skillful play in ESO that I have ever seen: He was fighting a Magplar, he got the Magplar to 50%, but he purposely let his own health to go to 25%. Normally Magplars would cast BoL and get back to full health when they get to that low, but seeing Jack at 25% HP, instead of casting BoL, the Magplar casted Jesus Beam, so Jack bashed the jesus beam then immediately bursted the Magplar down with his insane combo with perfect animation canceling. The whole stream was like "D:", ":O", "o.O", "OMG that bash". That's exactly why ZOS should promote that kind of plays instead of all the cheese like viper tremor or SA.

Soul assault is good for 1vX? What dude? Soul assault is the pinnacle of Xv1 skills, like literally, if you 1vX you don't want to be locked into a 4-second animation, the zergs will kill you in less than 2 seconds. It's not even strong in dueling, because in dueling most people run heavy S&B anyway and it deals like 10 damage to those kind of guys. But it's very powerful in Xv1 because if you happen to be somewhere without LOS (you get ambushed by zergs, you are chasing scrolls, you see 2 people but suddenly 5 more appear), it's the best Xv1 ability that you can get: it snares you, slows you down, the only thing you can do is to block and the others will just jump on you and you die. Basically if someone SA you while you are 1vXing you are pretty much dead. Ask any 1vXer, SA is their worse enemy, even more frustrating to deal with than Xv1 snipers. Group v group? It's insanely strong in BG, because you can't camp LOS in BG, and there are tons of people running around in medium armour (because of no CP), so you can get free kill after free kill, just randomly cast it on a dude and if he doesn't run S&B he is dead.

Again, increase the damage tick through block to make it more viable against permablock builds, then make it interruptible. Promote skillful plays, don't promote cheese.

I disagree. I 1vX somewhat regularly, SA is rarely the thing that results in my death (there was one time I got ganked with SA. Guy A snipes me from stealth, Guy B uses SA from stealth, I shield, Guy A has shield breaker).

Here's a list of things that suck more than SA in a 1vX:

Easily the most irritating thing is the Shield Charge spamming Tremorscale tanks. You can't focus kill them because they permablock if you try, and If I get more than 2m away from the tank I get shield charged which CCs and I can't block or dodge all of them as a mag player.
Wardens. The undodgeable heavy hitting birds + the shalk damage and CC which can be hard to predict. Trees getting dropped every 10 seconds and outhealing pretty much all of the damage you did to the group chasing you. Or permafrost, snare + unblockable undodgeable CC.
Fossilize. Try 1vXing on a mag build against a CC that can catch you mid dodgeroll and root you in place.
Dawnbreaker. Whenever I get hit with SA, I'm secretly happy it's not a dawnbreaker. This ult is so OP, ranged magicka builds slot it in CP pvp.
Resource Poisons: as if defending against 5+ high damage players wasn't bad enough. Try doing it with 30% extra cost on all your offensive and defensive skills.
Pocket healers: Nothing quite like running into another 1vXer... except he's got a pocket healer permablock templar and tbaggs upon victory.
Valkyn Skoria: Meteor-lite. Hits like a bus, undodgeable and basically no warning. I can't hear it over every other sound effect hitting me at the same time.
Shield breaker: Just in case you thought you might survive this one.

And yeah, I've tried SA in 1vX and frankly, it's a beautiful potato smasher. It's less useful against strong Xv1 players, but you really can't 1vX good players without a lot of luck in the first place.

Making the skill bashable would just make it useless as anything besides a zerg tool. Every good stam player I've fought while using SA, would just pressure me hard enough to force me to break it or risk dying. The bad ones would just dodge roll around and die.

Also, dodge roll covers quite a lot of ground. Vigor, dodge roll, rally, dodge roll... and you are pretty much 100% at an LoS within any keep. Or are you going to tell me that dodge roll is too expensive for you as well?

Biro123 · August 2017

I don't particularly like SA, but I find shieldbreaker pretty unescapable..

Generally those who run it have a real hard-on for sorcs, and will chase you to the ends of the earth - using nothing but bow light attacks to attack with and saving their stam to rolldodge for major exped/sprint/gapclose (which is way faster than streak btw - and also much easier on the resources over time).

They usually come in pairs too, with one pressuring your shields and the other pressuring health with shieldbreaker. You can't both heal AND shield enough to stay alive - which only leaves running...

In comparison to SA... one is an ulti.. the other is just light-attacking...

DDuke · August 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

.

DDuke wrote: »

PeaNutShotz wrote: »

Oh and if you really want this ult nerfed give actual valid evidence. On actual experienced players not low CP players not inexperienced pvp players. PvP players who know how to counter the ult, I'm 90% positive you will be like holy cow it isn't that powerful of an ult now that I figured out the mechanics and counters to it!

But until than keep that nerf this nerf that garbage in your top right drawer!

Just gonna leave the rest of your post alone (as it's mostly bs & the "L2P" non-argument) & answer to this.

Assuming the person Soul Assaulting has 100k tooltip, we're looking at:
100 000/2 (Battle Spirit)->50K/3.5 seconds->14 285/second damage

With 17% mitigation (standard for 7 legendary medium) we cut 17% from it and get to 11 857 damage/second.

We could also assume it's a light armor user Soul Assaulting, so that reduces the amount mitigated - but lets leave that alone for now.

Block=50% mitigation, meaning 11 857/2->5928 damage/second.

Vigor heals for around 1,5k/second on a high stat build (if we're being generous), so de facto you end up taking 4428 damage/second, or around 15 500 damage over the 3.5 seconds.

I won't count crits as I'll just assume the medium armor user runs with 7 impen & CPs to reach close to 50% mitigation, but realistically you could add +10-20% dmg to crit ticks as well.

And how much does it cost to block it as a medium armor user, you wonder?

Well, when block cost is 2160 and there are 8 ticks, 17 280 stamina, as well as another around 2-3k by not regaining stamina while blocking.

If you're specifically a stamblade, you can cut the stamina cost down to 11 520 & health cost to just around 10k.

Of course, you can also combine it with things like DoTs, Curse/Wrath, Purifying Light/Unstable Core, Birds/Shalks etc.

Now, in light of this evidence: how do you propose to "counter" that as a medium armor user? Or are you just going to tell me to "suck it up", use S&B (and go heavy armor)?

NBs can cloak

I wrote this:

If you're specifically a stamblade, you can cut the stamina cost down to 11 520 & health cost to just around 10k.

You can only cloak after 2 seconds (Soul Assault puts a 2s debuff on you that prevents cloaking entirely).

Waffennacht wrote: »

DKs got that DMG mitigation

DKs block for 10% more, is that what you mean?

Still means 4743 damage/second (make that 4243 assuming the stam DK gets Major Mending on Vigor), or a total of around 14 850 dmg & 17,2k stamina (+2-3k lost from not regaining any while blocking).

Waffennacht wrote: »

Templars got heals,

I assume you're talking about magicka templar, since stamina has no heal besides Vigor/Rally.
I've never had any problems with Soul Assault on my heavy armor magicka templar, but that's not really what we're talking about.

Waffennacht wrote: »

Wardens have Trellis

Stamina Warden actually has a relatively strong spammable self heal (though it is not Trellis, as that scales with magicka/spell dmg), so they're the one class that has a decent counter to it (you can even dodge roll->Soothing Spores to avoid Incaps etc while getting Soul Assaulted).

Definitely something I'll be trying out, but that's 1 out of the 5 classes in the game that can somewhat deal with Soul Assault while playing in medium armor.

Waffennacht wrote: »

Sorcs, well I don't see them complaining

Well, there's no feasible way for a medium armor stamina sorcerer to survive a Soul Assault, so I guess they've all changed to S&B heavy setups already by now (or simply play magicka).

Waffennacht wrote: »

All can also run SnB on medium too.

"Can" and "want to" are two completely different things. As I mentioned earlier, not everyone enjoys playing a "tank" character.

Besides, from min-max perspective (the only perspective that matters), using S&B with medium armor is a nono when you spend that much time blocking & cutting off your stamina regen. You're pretty much always better off using heavy armor instead.

Pastas · August 2017

Biro123 wrote: »

I don't particularly like SA, but I find shieldbreaker pretty unescapable..

Generally those who run it have a real hard-on for sorcs, and will chase you to the ends of the earth - using nothing but bow light attacks to attack with and saving their stam to rolldodge for major exped/sprint/gapclose (which is way faster than streak btw - and also much easier on the resources over time).

They usually come in pairs too, with one pressuring your shields and the other pressuring health with shieldbreaker. You can't both heal AND shield enough to stay alive - which only leaves running...

In comparison to SA... one is an ulti.. the other is just light-attacking...

Imagine Rapid Fire ignoring shields and tell me it is only a ulti

DarkAedin · August 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

.

DDuke wrote: »

PeaNutShotz wrote: »

Oh and if you really want this ult nerfed give actual valid evidence. On actual experienced players not low CP players not inexperienced pvp players. PvP players who know how to counter the ult, I'm 90% positive you will be like holy cow it isn't that powerful of an ult now that I figured out the mechanics and counters to it!

But until than keep that nerf this nerf that garbage in your top right drawer!

Just gonna leave the rest of your post alone (as it's mostly bs & the "L2P" non-argument) & answer to this.

Assuming the person Soul Assaulting has 100k tooltip, we're looking at:
100 000/2 (Battle Spirit)->50K/3.5 seconds->14 285/second damage

With 17% mitigation (standard for 7 legendary medium) we cut 17% from it and get to 11 857 damage/second.

We could also assume it's a light armor user Soul Assaulting, so that reduces the amount mitigated - but lets leave that alone for now.

Block=50% mitigation, meaning 11 857/2->5928 damage/second.

Vigor heals for around 1,5k/second on a high stat build (if we're being generous), so de facto you end up taking 4428 damage/second, or around 15 500 damage over the 3.5 seconds.

I won't count crits as I'll just assume the medium armor user runs with 7 impen & CPs to reach close to 50% mitigation, but realistically you could add +10-20% dmg to crit ticks as well.

And how much does it cost to block it as a medium armor user, you wonder?

Well, when block cost is 2160 and there are 8 ticks, 17 280 stamina, as well as another around 2-3k by not regaining stamina while blocking.

If you're specifically a stamblade, you can cut the stamina cost down to 11 520 & health cost to just around 10k.

Of course, you can also combine it with things like DoTs, Curse/Wrath, Purifying Light/Unstable Core, Birds/Shalks etc.

Now, in light of this evidence: how do you propose to "counter" that as a medium armor user? Or are you just going to tell me to "suck it up", use S&B (and go heavy armor)?

NBs can cloak
DKs got that DMG mitigation
Templars got heals,
Wardens have Trellis
Sorcs, well I don't see them complaining

All can also run SnB on medium too.

U got one thing half right. Nbs can cloak... but its a broken skill
Templar can heal... is that a troll since the loss of major mending to stamplar? Esp since its actualy warden with the stam heal.
Warden have trellis - now i know ur trolling. Or just dumb. Bc soul assault isnt a projectile

DDuke · August 2017

Pastas wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

I don't particularly like SA, but I find shieldbreaker pretty unescapable..

Generally those who run it have a real hard-on for sorcs, and will chase you to the ends of the earth - using nothing but bow light attacks to attack with and saving their stam to rolldodge for major exped/sprint/gapclose (which is way faster than streak btw - and also much easier on the resources over time).

They usually come in pairs too, with one pressuring your shields and the other pressuring health with shieldbreaker. You can't both heal AND shield enough to stay alive - which only leaves running...

In comparison to SA... one is an ulti.. the other is just light-attacking...

Imagine Rapid Fire ignoring shields and tell me it is only a ulti

Or ignoring even dodge roll for that matter... even a magicka build can dodge twice and make you waste those 175 ultimate. Not to mention that Rapid Fire & morphs deal significantly less damage than Soul Assault, unless you've managed to land 5 light attacks on target first to stack up Hawk Eye (in which case they deal roughly the same amount of damage).

Waffennacht · August 2017

@DarkAedin Trellis procs on damage, I think you are thinking of Crystals

Jules · August 2017

LOL to anyone saying L2P to the OP.

Soul assault has up to a 41m range and a 3.5s cast time, channeled.
It can have a tooltip of 100k+ easily.
It costs 100 ultimate.
It is undodgeable and has a 70% snare ("why don't you just get to LOS?")
On top of all this, it is uninterruptable, giving the caster free CC immunity WHILE doing thousands of damage and snaring their opponent to crap from the safety of the other side of the field.

The go-to counter for every single OP thing in the game cannot simply be "just block it" - because not every class is built like a magicka DK or a templar tank. The skill disobeys the previously established rules of ESO in that channeled single target abilities are interruptable, IE: RADIANT DESTRUCTION. It was once interruptable and it 100% needs to be again.

SanTii.92 · August 2017

Jules wrote: »

LOL to anyone saying L2P to the OP.

Soul assault has up to a 41m range and a 3.5s cast time, channeled.
It can have a tooltip of 100k+ easily.
It costs 100 ultimate.
It is undodgeable and has a 70% snare ("why don't you just get to LOS?")
On top of all this, it is uninterruptable, giving the caster free CC immunity WHILE doing thousands of damage and snaring their opponent to crap from the safety of the other side of the field.

The go-to counter for every single OP thing in the game cannot simply be "just block it" - because not every class is built like a magicka DK or a templar tank. The skill disobeys the previously established rules of ESO in that channeled single target abilities are interruptable, IE: RADIANT DESTRUCTION. It was once interruptable and it 100% needs to be again.

It was once useless too. But you are right, we all should keep clutching on dawnbreaker. Fun game.

Sweetpea704 · August 2017

Pastas wrote: »

Sweetpea704 wrote: »

I've only ever really died to this if I was getting rolled by like 6 or more people, so I don't think it is really a problem. The best way to get away from this is breaking line of site. I've been able to shield through it. I also run immovable pots that have health, mag, and immovable.

Try to shield through using medium armour

If you wear nothing but medium armor, maybe that is your problem. Are you one of those glass cannon builds that can only do one good hit before getting killed by a stiff breeze? I would work on your survivability if you are. You know you can wear one piece of heavy and light and level up those skill lines. You can use harness magicka. You can put skillpoints into heavy and improve your health. You can change a glyph or two so you aren't that guy with less than 20K health, even in Cyro. You can be a vamp and use mist form.
The reason people get mad at the "nerf this" posts is because we have put the time into tinkering with our builds in order to mitigate this stuff. I'm not even saying that I have it totally together. But, my kill to death ratio says that I give as good as I get. I'm still figuring thing out. If I feel like something isn't working, I mess with champ points, I change a glyph, I may even respect and change my bars up. But, I like the challenge.

pieratsos · August 2017

SanTii.92 wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

It takes you merely 18k stam to block a full soul assault.

My magicka dk pvp build has that amount of stam which is also capable to accomodate more situations (roll dodge, break free, that usually require more stam on magic toon)

EDIT: words in bracket for clearer concept.
EDIT2: I'm not even running full sturdy. Including one hand and shield passive + 1 sturdy; my block cost reduction is 40% flat.

Today I sucessfully blocked two Soul Assaults (different times different players). Both kinda deleted my stam pool but I largely survived that blow with the spec I quoted above. Blocking that thing will mitigate at least 50% of damage even your don't have protection buffs with you. I can't manage to find stam draining diagram for my two blocking aforementioned.

Whooptydoo... you survived SA with one of the more tanky builds in the game.

If you think 5 light spinner and 2 heavy bloodspawn plus a sword and board all divines cept head is sturdy, is one of a more tanky build. Then you might need to look carefully into those real tanky build.
By the way the tankiest build is double even triple ward spamming sorc...

EDIT: sword and boards are part of silk of the sun set.

You use S&B and have 18k stam. So yes, you can block it with ease. Now, have you tried to block it with a bow in medium armour?

I thought the OP was talking about how overpowered and unblockable it is. Well if you have to block that with bow how about go cloak after 2 secs? I bet 2s of blocking won't drain 18K stam even on bow right?

Ummm, how does a stamsorc or a stamplar go to cloak?

It's not "overpowered", it is poorly designed, as in, it is useless against certain builds and extremely powerful against other builds.

stealth pot, or try to find something to block LOS.

I partially agree with your point (about the design).

I am not a zergling, so no stealth pot for me, i need speed pots. There's no way to block LOS in BG because if you camp LOS the enemy will just take the objective and win.

That's why it should be interruptible.

Lol, no reason? How about that would leave the skill complete useless, like you know, it was when that was the case. Only change the ult needs is to space the ticks a bit so it doesn't drain too much Stam. And that is it.

It is already useless against permablock and shield-stacking builds. Adjusting the stamina drain is nice, but it will be even more useless against permablock builds, unless that's how you want it to be. My proposal is to increase the damage tick through block and make it interruptible, so that it actually promotes skillful plays. I don't use that poorly designed skill, but if you just want to just reduce the stam it takes to block, I will take it, but I believe my proposal might be better for you.

It's not useless on permablockers, and even if it were it doesn't really matters, you just target someone else. And you can't increase the dmge is far too strong now. Making interruptable will legit destroy the skill, or you don't remember. A single crushing shock will counter an ultimate, thats ridiculous.

You dont remember either. If you did, then you would know that interrupt wasnt the only thing that was changed.

And no its absolutely not ridiculous. Thats called skill. Something u are unfamiliar with. A lot of abilities, ults in the game can be completely countered by one skill/mechanic. That doesnt make them useless. Its for people to react and use their brain to either defend using their counters or find a way around the counter when on offense.

Ok, so first I never said it was the only change, tho surely the most important one. Second, you don't know who you are talking to, so please refrain to call me out, or if you want, and play on Pc Na, add me. @San.tii and we can further discuss how unskillful I am.

And finally, there is no display on skill being able to iterrupt a 4.5s channel, gap close, bash, finished, crushing shock, finished. This goes for you @hmsdragonfly, and @DDuke too. You are asking for a counter, but you are not considering that picking this ult actually means to give up on stronger, and more useful on group play than Soul Assault, like literally any other is. Of course for 1vX this skill's pretty strong, but for group v group? nah dude, almost anythng else is better. Someone's Sa you? your team focus him and he's dead or got to stop.

Again, what is needed is to space the ticks so consume less stamina while blocking. That's it.

SA not being good against groups is completely irrelevant. Every ability, ult has its uses. Just because its not good against groups it doesnt mean it should be obliterating medium armor builds because the only thing they can do is either die or just block and shut down their builds.

You pick abilities that interrupt for a reason. To be able to interrupt ranged channeled skills. Thats called skill no matter how you spin it. If abilities are going to ignore the mechanics that keep them in line then whats the point of having them in the first place.

There was a time when doing mistakes could punish you because no matter what problems the game had, its core gameplay was at least promoting skilled gameplay. Thats not the case anymore. The game has been dumbed down to just a brainless press of buttons.

Interrupting an ult with a single, spamable, 28m range spell is not skill at all, and will only promote norrowing the amount of ults available even more. And as you said ult has it's strenghs and weaknesses, and it's only really overperforming on some particular scenarios, which should be addressed, as I mention before, but that's most certainly no cause to completly destroy the ult as that change you propose would do.

No it wouldnt destroy the ult. It just makes you think how to use it and when to use it. You know its pros and cons when u put it on ur bar. You use ur brain and work with them.
Crushing shock is mostly used on sorcs and wardens. Those classes already can manage SA fairly easy so trying to use it against them probably wont do any good unless you try to build around and time a huge burst immediately after a CC to which they will have no time to react.
SA is good against medium armor. Thats its strength. It should be undodgeable. But medium armor builds dont have a ranged interrupt with the exception of venom arrow which is a very lackluster skill compared to injection and no one actually uses it. They will have to gap close and bash and its not as simple as it sounds if the SA happens immediately after a CC. You will take half the ticks by the time u bash it which is still an extreme amount of dmg and that can make venom arrow a more attractive choice even if it means dropping injection.
It will be a waste of ult tho if someone is stupid enough to cast an interruptable skill point blank in ur face and should be punished for it. Thats like a sorc spamming overload light attacks against a DK with scales. Huge mistake, you get punished for it.

Like i said, thinking how to use it and when to use it promoting skilled gameplay both on offense and defense.

Waffennacht · August 2017

Sweetpea704 wrote: »

Pastas wrote: »

Sweetpea704 wrote: »

I've only ever really died to this if I was getting rolled by like 6 or more people, so I don't think it is really a problem. The best way to get away from this is breaking line of site. I've been able to shield through it. I also run immovable pots that have health, mag, and immovable.

Try to shield through using medium armour

If you wear nothing but medium armor, maybe that is your problem. Are you one of those glass cannon builds that can only do one good hit before getting killed by a stiff breeze? I would work on your survivability if you are. You know you can wear one piece of heavy and light and level up those skill lines. You can use harness magicka. You can put skillpoints into heavy and improve your health. You can change a glyph or two so you aren't that guy with less than 20K health, even in Cyro. You can be a vamp and use mist form.
The reason people get mad at the "nerf this" posts is because we have put the time into tinkering with our builds in order to mitigate this stuff. I'm not even saying that I have it totally together. But, my kill to death ratio says that I give as good as I get. I'm still figuring thing out. If I feel like something isn't working, I mess with champ points, I change a glyph, I may even respect and change my bars up. But, I like the challenge.

Good point in there. Mist form pwnz SA

Pastas · August 2017

Sweetpea704 wrote: »

Pastas wrote: »

Sweetpea704 wrote: »

I've only ever really died to this if I was getting rolled by like 6 or more people, so I don't think it is really a problem. The best way to get away from this is breaking line of site. I've been able to shield through it. I also run immovable pots that have health, mag, and immovable.

Try to shield through using medium armour

If you wear nothing but medium armor, maybe that is your problem. Are you one of those glass cannon builds that can only do one good hit before getting killed by a stiff breeze? I would work on your survivability if you are. You know you can wear one piece of heavy and light and level up those skill lines. You can use harness magicka. You can put skillpoints into heavy and improve your health. You can change a glyph or two so you aren't that guy with less than 20K health, even in Cyro. You can be a vamp and use mist form.
The reason people get mad at the "nerf this" posts is because we have put the time into tinkering with our builds in order to mitigate this stuff. I'm not even saying that I have it totally together. But, my kill to death ratio says that I give as good as I get. I'm still figuring thing out. If I feel like something isn't working, I mess with champ points, I change a glyph, I may even respect and change my bars up. But, I like the challenge.

I stoped reading when you said use Harness Magicka

stomas1 · August 2017

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

Libonotus wrote: »

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

Gothren wrote: »

nothing wrong with soul assault. easy to counter. not even one of the best ultimates. l2p please.

They removed counters to soul assault. It definitely overperforms in non-cp PVP.

So you're saying they removed block? Okay then

Obviously you have never actually played PVP.

shield, block, mist, cloak after 2s, heal, line of sight, theres tons of counters, seems u dont play pvp. Zattas magplar EU

pieratsos · August 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

Sweetpea704 wrote: »

Pastas wrote: »

Sweetpea704 wrote: »

I've only ever really died to this if I was getting rolled by like 6 or more people, so I don't think it is really a problem. The best way to get away from this is breaking line of site. I've been able to shield through it. I also run immovable pots that have health, mag, and immovable.

Try to shield through using medium armour

If you wear nothing but medium armor, maybe that is your problem. Are you one of those glass cannon builds that can only do one good hit before getting killed by a stiff breeze? I would work on your survivability if you are. You know you can wear one piece of heavy and light and level up those skill lines. You can use harness magicka. You can put skillpoints into heavy and improve your health. You can change a glyph or two so you aren't that guy with less than 20K health, even in Cyro. You can be a vamp and use mist form.
The reason people get mad at the "nerf this" posts is because we have put the time into tinkering with our builds in order to mitigate this stuff. I'm not even saying that I have it totally together. But, my kill to death ratio says that I give as good as I get. I'm still figuring thing out. If I feel like something isn't working, I mess with champ points, I change a glyph, I may even respect and change my bars up. But, I like the challenge.

Good point in there. Mist form pwnz SA

Medium armor being forced to use mist form. How about we make ballista go through shields. Should be fun right? I mean u can use shuffle and dodge roll so it will be balanced.

SanTii.92 · August 2017

pieratsos wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

It takes you merely 18k stam to block a full soul assault.

My magicka dk pvp build has that amount of stam which is also capable to accomodate more situations (roll dodge, break free, that usually require more stam on magic toon)

EDIT: words in bracket for clearer concept.
EDIT2: I'm not even running full sturdy. Including one hand and shield passive + 1 sturdy; my block cost reduction is 40% flat.

Today I sucessfully blocked two Soul Assaults (different times different players). Both kinda deleted my stam pool but I largely survived that blow with the spec I quoted above. Blocking that thing will mitigate at least 50% of damage even your don't have protection buffs with you. I can't manage to find stam draining diagram for my two blocking aforementioned.

Whooptydoo... you survived SA with one of the more tanky builds in the game.

If you think 5 light spinner and 2 heavy bloodspawn plus a sword and board all divines cept head is sturdy, is one of a more tanky build. Then you might need to look carefully into those real tanky build.
By the way the tankiest build is double even triple ward spamming sorc...

EDIT: sword and boards are part of silk of the sun set.

You use S&B and have 18k stam. So yes, you can block it with ease. Now, have you tried to block it with a bow in medium armour?

I thought the OP was talking about how overpowered and unblockable it is. Well if you have to block that with bow how about go cloak after 2 secs? I bet 2s of blocking won't drain 18K stam even on bow right?

Ummm, how does a stamsorc or a stamplar go to cloak?

It's not "overpowered", it is poorly designed, as in, it is useless against certain builds and extremely powerful against other builds.

stealth pot, or try to find something to block LOS.

I partially agree with your point (about the design).

I am not a zergling, so no stealth pot for me, i need speed pots. There's no way to block LOS in BG because if you camp LOS the enemy will just take the objective and win.

That's why it should be interruptible.

Lol, no reason? How about that would leave the skill complete useless, like you know, it was when that was the case. Only change the ult needs is to space the ticks a bit so it doesn't drain too much Stam. And that is it.

It is already useless against permablock and shield-stacking builds. Adjusting the stamina drain is nice, but it will be even more useless against permablock builds, unless that's how you want it to be. My proposal is to increase the damage tick through block and make it interruptible, so that it actually promotes skillful plays. I don't use that poorly designed skill, but if you just want to just reduce the stam it takes to block, I will take it, but I believe my proposal might be better for you.

It's not useless on permablockers, and even if it were it doesn't really matters, you just target someone else. And you can't increase the dmge is far too strong now. Making interruptable will legit destroy the skill, or you don't remember. A single crushing shock will counter an ultimate, thats ridiculous.

You dont remember either. If you did, then you would know that interrupt wasnt the only thing that was changed.

And no its absolutely not ridiculous. Thats called skill. Something u are unfamiliar with. A lot of abilities, ults in the game can be completely countered by one skill/mechanic. That doesnt make them useless. Its for people to react and use their brain to either defend using their counters or find a way around the counter when on offense.

Ok, so first I never said it was the only change, tho surely the most important one. Second, you don't know who you are talking to, so please refrain to call me out, or if you want, and play on Pc Na, add me. @San.tii and we can further discuss how unskillful I am.

And finally, there is no display on skill being able to iterrupt a 4.5s channel, gap close, bash, finished, crushing shock, finished. This goes for you @hmsdragonfly, and @DDuke too. You are asking for a counter, but you are not considering that picking this ult actually means to give up on stronger, and more useful on group play than Soul Assault, like literally any other is. Of course for 1vX this skill's pretty strong, but for group v group? nah dude, almost anythng else is better. Someone's Sa you? your team focus him and he's dead or got to stop.

Again, what is needed is to space the ticks so consume less stamina while blocking. That's it.

SA not being good against groups is completely irrelevant. Every ability, ult has its uses. Just because its not good against groups it doesnt mean it should be obliterating medium armor builds because the only thing they can do is either die or just block and shut down their builds.

You pick abilities that interrupt for a reason. To be able to interrupt ranged channeled skills. Thats called skill no matter how you spin it. If abilities are going to ignore the mechanics that keep them in line then whats the point of having them in the first place.

There was a time when doing mistakes could punish you because no matter what problems the game had, its core gameplay was at least promoting skilled gameplay. Thats not the case anymore. The game has been dumbed down to just a brainless press of buttons.

Interrupting an ult with a single, spamable, 28m range spell is not skill at all, and will only promote norrowing the amount of ults available even more. And as you said ult has it's strenghs and weaknesses, and it's only really overperforming on some particular scenarios, which should be addressed, as I mention before, but that's most certainly no cause to completly destroy the ult as that change you propose would do.

No it wouldnt destroy the ult. It just makes you think how to use it and when to use it. You know its pros and cons when u put it on ur bar. You use ur brain and work with them.
Crushing shock is mostly used on sorcs and wardens. Those classes already can manage SA fairly easy so trying to use it against them probably wont do any good unless you try to build around and time a huge burst immediately after a CC to which they will have no time to react.
SA is good against medium armor. Thats its strength. It should be undodgeable. But medium armor builds dont have a ranged interrupt with the exception of venom arrow which is a very lackluster skill compared to injection and no one actually uses it. They will have to gap close and bash and its not as simple as it sounds if the SA happens immediately after a CC. You will take half the ticks by the time u bash it which is still an extreme amount of dmg and that can make venom arrow a more attractive choice even if it means dropping injection.
It will be a waste of ult tho if someone is stupid enough to cast an interruptable skill point blank in ur face and should be punished for it. Thats like a sorc spamming overload light attacks against a DK with scales. Huge mistake, you get punished for it.

Like i said, thinking how to use it and when to use it promoting skilled gameplay both on offense and defense.

Doesn't matter who you cast it to, someone will be able to throw a crushing shock, or just gap close and bash. There is no thought to put into the skill when on almost every possible scenario (unless you are zerging) any half competent player will interrupt the channel really quickly. It's a far too cheap and easy counter for being so effective. If balance is what you are looking after, literally any other change would do better.

pieratsos · August 2017

Drummerx04 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

It takes you merely 18k stam to block a full soul assault.

My magicka dk pvp build has that amount of stam which is also capable to accomodate more situations (roll dodge, break free, that usually require more stam on magic toon)

EDIT: words in bracket for clearer concept.
EDIT2: I'm not even running full sturdy. Including one hand and shield passive + 1 sturdy; my block cost reduction is 40% flat.

Today I sucessfully blocked two Soul Assaults (different times different players). Both kinda deleted my stam pool but I largely survived that blow with the spec I quoted above. Blocking that thing will mitigate at least 50% of damage even your don't have protection buffs with you. I can't manage to find stam draining diagram for my two blocking aforementioned.

Whooptydoo... you survived SA with one of the more tanky builds in the game.

If you think 5 light spinner and 2 heavy bloodspawn plus a sword and board all divines cept head is sturdy, is one of a more tanky build. Then you might need to look carefully into those real tanky build.
By the way the tankiest build is double even triple ward spamming sorc...

EDIT: sword and boards are part of silk of the sun set.

You use S&B and have 18k stam. So yes, you can block it with ease. Now, have you tried to block it with a bow in medium armour?

I thought the OP was talking about how overpowered and unblockable it is. Well if you have to block that with bow how about go cloak after 2 secs? I bet 2s of blocking won't drain 18K stam even on bow right?

Ummm, how does a stamsorc or a stamplar go to cloak?

It's not "overpowered", it is poorly designed, as in, it is useless against certain builds and extremely powerful against other builds.

stealth pot, or try to find something to block LOS.

I partially agree with your point (about the design).

I am not a zergling, so no stealth pot for me, i need speed pots. There's no way to block LOS in BG because if you camp LOS the enemy will just take the objective and win.

That's why it should be interruptible.

Lol, no reason? How about that would leave the skill complete useless, like you know, it was when that was the case. Only change the ult needs is to space the ticks a bit so it doesn't drain too much Stam. And that is it.

It is already useless against permablock and shield-stacking builds. Adjusting the stamina drain is nice, but it will be even more useless against permablock builds, unless that's how you want it to be. My proposal is to increase the damage tick through block and make it interruptible, so that it actually promotes skillful plays. I don't use that poorly designed skill, but if you just want to just reduce the stam it takes to block, I will take it, but I believe my proposal might be better for you.

It's not useless on permablockers, and even if it were it doesn't really matters, you just target someone else. And you can't increase the dmge is far too strong now. Making interruptable will legit destroy the skill, or you don't remember. A single crushing shock will counter an ultimate, thats ridiculous.

You dont remember either. If you did, then you would know that interrupt wasnt the only thing that was changed.

And no its absolutely not ridiculous. Thats called skill. Something u are unfamiliar with. A lot of abilities, ults in the game can be completely countered by one skill/mechanic. That doesnt make them useless. Its for people to react and use their brain to either defend using their counters or find a way around the counter when on offense.

Ok, so first I never said it was the only change, tho surely the most important one. Second, you don't know who you are talking to, so please refrain to call me out, or if you want, and play on Pc Na, add me. @San.tii and we can further discuss how unskillful I am.

And finally, there is no display on skill being able to iterrupt a 4.5s channel, gap close, bash, finished, crushing shock, finished. This goes for you @hmsdragonfly, and @DDuke too. You are asking for a counter, but you are not considering that picking this ult actually means to give up on stronger, and more useful on group play than Soul Assault, like literally any other is. Of course for 1vX this skill's pretty strong, but for group v group? nah dude, almost anythng else is better. Someone's Sa you? your team focus him and he's dead or got to stop.

There is absolutely a better display of skills in bashing soul assault than casting it on a dude who happens to not run S&B and get a free kill for yourself. You have to set up a burst combo and then outplay your opponent if you want to kill them with DB, Leap or Meteor, but that's not what you have to do with SA, you just cast it and it's a guaranteed kill. Bashing SA is like bashing Jesus Beam. I remember watching Jack Danielle's stream, and there I witnessed the most skillful play in ESO that I have ever seen: He was fighting a Magplar, he got the Magplar to 50%, but he purposely let his own health to go to 25%. Normally Magplars would cast BoL and get back to full health when they get to that low, but seeing Jack at 25% HP, instead of casting BoL, the Magplar casted Jesus Beam, so Jack bashed the jesus beam then immediately bursted the Magplar down with his insane combo with perfect animation canceling. The whole stream was like "D:", ":O", "o.O", "OMG that bash". That's exactly why ZOS should promote that kind of plays instead of all the cheese like viper tremor or SA.

Soul assault is good for 1vX? What dude? Soul assault is the pinnacle of Xv1 skills, like literally, if you 1vX you don't want to be locked into a 4-second animation, the zergs will kill you in less than 2 seconds. It's not even strong in dueling, because in dueling most people run heavy S&B anyway and it deals like 10 damage to those kind of guys. But it's very powerful in Xv1 because if you happen to be somewhere without LOS (you get ambushed by zergs, you are chasing scrolls, you see 2 people but suddenly 5 more appear), it's the best Xv1 ability that you can get: it snares you, slows you down, the only thing you can do is to block and the others will just jump on you and you die. Basically if someone SA you while you are 1vXing you are pretty much dead. Ask any 1vXer, SA is their worse enemy, even more frustrating to deal with than Xv1 snipers. Group v group? It's insanely strong in BG, because you can't camp LOS in BG, and there are tons of people running around in medium armour (because of no CP), so you can get free kill after free kill, just randomly cast it on a dude and if he doesn't run S&B he is dead.

Again, increase the damage tick through block to make it more viable against permablock builds, then make it interruptible. Promote skillful plays, don't promote cheese.

I disagree. I 1vX somewhat regularly, SA is rarely the thing that results in my death (there was one time I got ganked with SA. Guy A snipes me from stealth, Guy B uses SA from stealth, I shield, Guy A has shield breaker).

Here's a list of things that suck more than SA in a 1vX:
Easily the most irritating thing is the Shield Charge spamming Tremorscale tanks. You can't focus kill them because they permablock if you try, and If I get more than 2m away from the tank I get shield charged which CCs and I can't block or dodge all of them as a mag player.

Wardens. The undodgeable heavy hitting birds + the shalk damage and CC which can be hard to predict. Trees getting dropped every 10 seconds and outhealing pretty much all of the damage you did to the group chasing you. Or permafrost, snare + unblockable undodgeable CC.

Fossilize. Try 1vXing on a mag build against a CC that can catch you mid dodgeroll and root you in place.

Dawnbreaker. Whenever I get hit with SA, I'm secretly happy it's not a dawnbreaker. This ult is so OP, ranged magicka builds slot it in CP pvp.

Resource Poisons: as if defending against 5+ high damage players wasn't bad enough. Try doing it with 30% extra cost on all your offensive and defensive skills.

Pocket healers: Nothing quite like running into another 1vXer... except he's got a pocket healer permablock templar and tbaggs upon victory.

Valkyn Skoria: Meteor-lite. Hits like a bus, undodgeable and basically no warning. I can't hear it over every other sound effect hitting me at the same time.

Shield breaker: Just in case you thought you might survive this one.

And yeah, I've tried SA in 1vX and frankly, it's a beautiful potato smasher. It's less useful against strong Xv1 players, but you really can't 1vX good players without a lot of luck in the first place.

Making the skill bashable would just make it useless as anything besides a zerg tool. Every good stam player I've fought while using SA, would just pressure me hard enough to force me to break it or risk dying. The bad ones would just dodge roll around and die.

Also, dodge roll covers quite a lot of ground. Vigor, dodge roll, rally, dodge roll... and you are pretty much 100% at an LoS within any keep. Or are you going to tell me that dodge roll is too expensive for you as well?

With the exception of 3,4,6 (which are just annoying or OP mechanics/skills but whatever) the rest are removing skill from the game which is the whole point why they are so bad against someone trying to 1vX. SA falls under the same category. And things like that are the reason 1vX is on life support these days. These are what we should be trying to avoid.

Waffennacht · August 2017

pieratsos wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Sweetpea704 wrote: »

Pastas wrote: »

Sweetpea704 wrote: »

I've only ever really died to this if I was getting rolled by like 6 or more people, so I don't think it is really a problem. The best way to get away from this is breaking line of site. I've been able to shield through it. I also run immovable pots that have health, mag, and immovable.

Try to shield through using medium armour

If you wear nothing but medium armor, maybe that is your problem. Are you one of those glass cannon builds that can only do one good hit before getting killed by a stiff breeze? I would work on your survivability if you are. You know you can wear one piece of heavy and light and level up those skill lines. You can use harness magicka. You can put skillpoints into heavy and improve your health. You can change a glyph or two so you aren't that guy with less than 20K health, even in Cyro. You can be a vamp and use mist form.
The reason people get mad at the "nerf this" posts is because we have put the time into tinkering with our builds in order to mitigate this stuff. I'm not even saying that I have it totally together. But, my kill to death ratio says that I give as good as I get. I'm still figuring thing out. If I feel like something isn't working, I mess with champ points, I change a glyph, I may even respect and change my bars up. But, I like the challenge.

Good point in there. Mist form pwnz SA

Medium armor being forced to use mist form. How about we make ballista go through shields. Should be fun right? I mean u can use shuffle and dodge roll so it will be balanced.

Sure, because I can counter something without having to use a shield. Because I make sure my builds aren't gonna get wrecked by someone just using an ult

pieratsos · August 2017

SanTii.92 wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

It takes you merely 18k stam to block a full soul assault.

My magicka dk pvp build has that amount of stam which is also capable to accomodate more situations (roll dodge, break free, that usually require more stam on magic toon)

EDIT: words in bracket for clearer concept.
EDIT2: I'm not even running full sturdy. Including one hand and shield passive + 1 sturdy; my block cost reduction is 40% flat.

Today I sucessfully blocked two Soul Assaults (different times different players). Both kinda deleted my stam pool but I largely survived that blow with the spec I quoted above. Blocking that thing will mitigate at least 50% of damage even your don't have protection buffs with you. I can't manage to find stam draining diagram for my two blocking aforementioned.

Whooptydoo... you survived SA with one of the more tanky builds in the game.

If you think 5 light spinner and 2 heavy bloodspawn plus a sword and board all divines cept head is sturdy, is one of a more tanky build. Then you might need to look carefully into those real tanky build.
By the way the tankiest build is double even triple ward spamming sorc...

EDIT: sword and boards are part of silk of the sun set.

You use S&B and have 18k stam. So yes, you can block it with ease. Now, have you tried to block it with a bow in medium armour?

I thought the OP was talking about how overpowered and unblockable it is. Well if you have to block that with bow how about go cloak after 2 secs? I bet 2s of blocking won't drain 18K stam even on bow right?

Ummm, how does a stamsorc or a stamplar go to cloak?

It's not "overpowered", it is poorly designed, as in, it is useless against certain builds and extremely powerful against other builds.

stealth pot, or try to find something to block LOS.

I partially agree with your point (about the design).

I am not a zergling, so no stealth pot for me, i need speed pots. There's no way to block LOS in BG because if you camp LOS the enemy will just take the objective and win.

That's why it should be interruptible.

Lol, no reason? How about that would leave the skill complete useless, like you know, it was when that was the case. Only change the ult needs is to space the ticks a bit so it doesn't drain too much Stam. And that is it.

It is already useless against permablock and shield-stacking builds. Adjusting the stamina drain is nice, but it will be even more useless against permablock builds, unless that's how you want it to be. My proposal is to increase the damage tick through block and make it interruptible, so that it actually promotes skillful plays. I don't use that poorly designed skill, but if you just want to just reduce the stam it takes to block, I will take it, but I believe my proposal might be better for you.

It's not useless on permablockers, and even if it were it doesn't really matters, you just target someone else. And you can't increase the dmge is far too strong now. Making interruptable will legit destroy the skill, or you don't remember. A single crushing shock will counter an ultimate, thats ridiculous.

You dont remember either. If you did, then you would know that interrupt wasnt the only thing that was changed.

And no its absolutely not ridiculous. Thats called skill. Something u are unfamiliar with. A lot of abilities, ults in the game can be completely countered by one skill/mechanic. That doesnt make them useless. Its for people to react and use their brain to either defend using their counters or find a way around the counter when on offense.

Ok, so first I never said it was the only change, tho surely the most important one. Second, you don't know who you are talking to, so please refrain to call me out, or if you want, and play on Pc Na, add me. @San.tii and we can further discuss how unskillful I am.

And finally, there is no display on skill being able to iterrupt a 4.5s channel, gap close, bash, finished, crushing shock, finished. This goes for you @hmsdragonfly, and @DDuke too. You are asking for a counter, but you are not considering that picking this ult actually means to give up on stronger, and more useful on group play than Soul Assault, like literally any other is. Of course for 1vX this skill's pretty strong, but for group v group? nah dude, almost anythng else is better. Someone's Sa you? your team focus him and he's dead or got to stop.

Again, what is needed is to space the ticks so consume less stamina while blocking. That's it.

SA not being good against groups is completely irrelevant. Every ability, ult has its uses. Just because its not good against groups it doesnt mean it should be obliterating medium armor builds because the only thing they can do is either die or just block and shut down their builds.

You pick abilities that interrupt for a reason. To be able to interrupt ranged channeled skills. Thats called skill no matter how you spin it. If abilities are going to ignore the mechanics that keep them in line then whats the point of having them in the first place.

There was a time when doing mistakes could punish you because no matter what problems the game had, its core gameplay was at least promoting skilled gameplay. Thats not the case anymore. The game has been dumbed down to just a brainless press of buttons.

Interrupting an ult with a single, spamable, 28m range spell is not skill at all, and will only promote norrowing the amount of ults available even more. And as you said ult has it's strenghs and weaknesses, and it's only really overperforming on some particular scenarios, which should be addressed, as I mention before, but that's most certainly no cause to completly destroy the ult as that change you propose would do.

No it wouldnt destroy the ult. It just makes you think how to use it and when to use it. You know its pros and cons when u put it on ur bar. You use ur brain and work with them.
Crushing shock is mostly used on sorcs and wardens. Those classes already can manage SA fairly easy so trying to use it against them probably wont do any good unless you try to build around and time a huge burst immediately after a CC to which they will have no time to react.
SA is good against medium armor. Thats its strength. It should be undodgeable. But medium armor builds dont have a ranged interrupt with the exception of venom arrow which is a very lackluster skill compared to injection and no one actually uses it. They will have to gap close and bash and its not as simple as it sounds if the SA happens immediately after a CC. You will take half the ticks by the time u bash it which is still an extreme amount of dmg and that can make venom arrow a more attractive choice even if it means dropping injection.
It will be a waste of ult tho if someone is stupid enough to cast an interruptable skill point blank in ur face and should be punished for it. Thats like a sorc spamming overload light attacks against a DK with scales. Huge mistake, you get punished for it.

Like i said, thinking how to use it and when to use it promoting skilled gameplay both on offense and defense.

Doesn't matter who you cast it to, someone will be able to throw a crushing shock, or just gap close and bash. There is no thought to put into the skill when on almost every possible scenario (unless you are zerging) any half competent player will interrupt the channel really quickly. It's a far too cheap and easy counter for being so effective. If balance is what you are looking after, literally any other change would do better.

Half competent player. See now we are talking. If they think to bash it they should be able to bash it.

You are talking about going against the chore mechanics of the game that keep abilities in line with the excuse of if there is anyone else that thinks about countering you then the ability becomes useless.
The problem is that in 90% of the situations no matter what ability or ult you use, they can all be wasted if there is a half competent player there that knows how to counter you.

pieratsos · August 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Sweetpea704 wrote: »

Pastas wrote: »

Sweetpea704 wrote: »

I've only ever really died to this if I was getting rolled by like 6 or more people, so I don't think it is really a problem. The best way to get away from this is breaking line of site. I've been able to shield through it. I also run immovable pots that have health, mag, and immovable.

Try to shield through using medium armour

If you wear nothing but medium armor, maybe that is your problem. Are you one of those glass cannon builds that can only do one good hit before getting killed by a stiff breeze? I would work on your survivability if you are. You know you can wear one piece of heavy and light and level up those skill lines. You can use harness magicka. You can put skillpoints into heavy and improve your health. You can change a glyph or two so you aren't that guy with less than 20K health, even in Cyro. You can be a vamp and use mist form.
The reason people get mad at the "nerf this" posts is because we have put the time into tinkering with our builds in order to mitigate this stuff. I'm not even saying that I have it totally together. But, my kill to death ratio says that I give as good as I get. I'm still figuring thing out. If I feel like something isn't working, I mess with champ points, I change a glyph, I may even respect and change my bars up. But, I like the challenge.

Good point in there. Mist form pwnz SA

Medium armor being forced to use mist form. How about we make ballista go through shields. Should be fun right? I mean u can use shuffle and dodge roll so it will be balanced.

Sure, because I can counter something without having to use a shield. Because I make sure my builds aren't gonna get wrecked by someone just using an ult

Yes im sure you will. Just like you can counter the 20k burst of medium armor builds that doesnt go through shields.
Oh wait you said using ur shields for that isnt a defensive opportunity. Gonna be a lot of fun with a ballista doing 5k per tick going through ur shields with the person using it free to dmg you.

Biro123 · August 2017

Pastas wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

I don't particularly like SA, but I find shieldbreaker pretty unescapable..

Generally those who run it have a real hard-on for sorcs, and will chase you to the ends of the earth - using nothing but bow light attacks to attack with and saving their stam to rolldodge for major exped/sprint/gapclose (which is way faster than streak btw - and also much easier on the resources over time).

They usually come in pairs too, with one pressuring your shields and the other pressuring health with shieldbreaker. You can't both heal AND shield enough to stay alive - which only leaves running...

In comparison to SA... one is an ulti.. the other is just light-attacking...

Imagine Rapid Fire ignoring shields and tell me it is only a ulti

Gotta love it when people totally miss the point of a post.

brandonv516 · August 2017

Jules wrote: »

LOL to anyone saying L2P to the OP.

Soul assault has up to a 41m range and a 3.5s cast time, channeled.
It can have a tooltip of 100k+ easily.
It costs 100 ultimate.
It is undodgeable and has a 70% snare ("why don't you just get to LOS?")
On top of all this, it is uninterruptable, giving the caster free CC immunity WHILE doing thousands of damage and snaring their opponent to crap from the safety of the other side of the field.

The go-to counter for every single OP thing in the game cannot simply be "just block it" - because not every class is built like a magicka DK or a templar tank. The skill disobeys the previously established rules of ESO in that channeled single target abilities are interruptable, IE: RADIANT DESTRUCTION. It was once interruptable and it 100% needs to be again.

No in @mmolegends44 case it is a L2P issue. I've already referenced why.

As to your points:

The range is a bit too much so I can agree there.

That 100k tooltip in PVP looks beefier than it actually is.

It should be undodgeable.
*The snare is necessary if the range were to be lowered.

It should be "bashable" but not interruptable (crushing shock, bow skill).
*The snare should remain if this changes.

The counter is not just block. It is block, shield, heal through, line of sight, mist form, cloak, or cause damage to the caster so he/she is forced to stop the channel.

The most fair point in any discussion involving it is the cost at 100. It is cheap. Should be 125 to 150.

On my magNB I get to about 60 ultimate after killing an enemy with it. Another potion and some light attacks and I get to do it all over again.

Ihatenightblades · August 2017

Meld777 wrote: »

I'm a Stamina Nightblade in PvP, so I suffer most from it cuz of my squishiness and inability to just spam shield like magicka builds. If anyone, I should QQ most about it. Yet, just block + Vigor spam will do it. If Soul Assault is a problem for you, you need to learn to play, as stated before.

StamNB is literaly the best counter for soul assault.. cloak? Ever heard of it? Literally saved u soon as u pop it

cpuScientist · August 2017

Yes all of you are super awesome players woot woot.

The damage is fine as it is. The slow is fine. It's almost worthless against any mag with a shield or heal. Stam players suffer against it if the player using it is decent. As it has 8 damage ticks and they all kill Stam. All that needs to change is go from 8 ticks to 4. This would make blocking it alot more viable for stam.

Even then it is still not an OP ult just unbalanced.

mmolegends44 · August 2017

Most people are in heavy armour but it doesn't make a difference with soul assault it still goes right through it even when you block if you have light or medium gear on and you are getting soul assaulted your dead.

DoccEff · August 2017

Stamblades expect to be able to burst you down in 1-2 sec but QQ when you hit them with soul assault. Fyi, you can cloak after 2 sec, heal through, block through, break line of sight, or put so much pressure on the caster that they have to cancel it.

Oh, and blocking costs stamina?? Looks like I didn't notice that healing and breaking CC after being ganked is free!

But seriously, I like this skill because it makes it easy to find out if your opponent knows how to play. (If they die from it in a 1v1 they most likely don't.)

D0PAMINE · August 2017

The trade off is its long channel time. Soul Assault can be difficult or easy to use or dodge/heal through. I've been killed in A LOT more humiliating or cheap ways than this.

D0PAMINE · August 2017

My Soul Assault does like 50k + according to the tool tip, and I cant kill anyone lol, i'd love some easy kills.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · August 2017

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

^

.

mmolegends44 · August 2017

some people tooltip is 100k+ from what they screenshotted and showed me.