Feanor wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

rafaelcsmaia wrote: »

Rungar wrote: »

its the only counter in the game to magic shields. To make it work requires specialized equipment in the form of a glyph, weapon and armor set.

I suppose they could change it so oblivion dmg only goes through shields......

I agree its the only counter, however some classes have shields as their unique form of defense, they cant dodge roll, heal or whatnot, having a 1s glyph damage that eats about 20% of their hp and bypasses their defenses, for just a trait and a glyph is overkill

disagree. the 2 shield based playstyles are nbs and sorcs. nbs have plenty of hots and cloak. they can easily heal through oblivion.

sorc's on the other hand on most builds refuse to slot any type of hot and relie solely on shield stacking + healing ward. oblivion hard counters that playstyle and it should. dont like it? adapt and adjust your build. slot troll king/enginee guardian(prey you get hp proc)/malubeth. Slot resto hot/ult or lingering hp pots. Dark deal more.

If sorcs are crying their triple shield stack builds with pirate skeleton is being countered then boohoo.

Were playing a game that does have rock paper scissors elements to the game. Current sorc's ignore this fact but with oblivion they cant anymore. Counters against them exist.. and its not just shield breaker.

You know, I'll be totally happy when that oblivion glyph BS pwns your medium Armour every time you just leave a keep and venture into the open. It's gonna be lightning and resto channels simply obliterating you. Your suggestions only show one thing: you never played a Sorc. You seriously suggest Rapid Regen, Dark Conversion, and above all Engine Guardian as counters. You just have no clue, sorry.

The current 1 second bug with torags infused is a problem. Without that, mitigating oblivion every other second isnt that big of deal considering you still can kite/cc your opponent.

Its exactly like countering a bowtard with shieldbreaker (once its fixed). Its annoying but good sorcs can manage.

Medium gets wrecked by any enchant... not just oblivion lol. If anything a fire enchant would kill us faster since it can crit and apply a dot that goes through dodge. Most medium nb's are vamps too, prismatic would be like 5k ticks in pvp lol. You think its only oblivion thatll be a problem xD

Alternative healing is a great counter fyi. Sure they wont counter 100% but i dont expect a sorc to just sit their and take the damage and expect to survive. CC/Kite and play smart.

@GreenSoup2HoT You are forgetting this crap proc off weapon dots aswell, this will turn any poison injection or destructive reach into a massive unmitigable dot on your ass, good luck kiting or dodging that, counterplay will be an absolute joke, this is like auto viper through defenses every 1,4 seconds, not to count the actual burst rotation, its absolutely crazy!

My counter play is dampen Magic + Trellis.

I'm a Warden.

I support this message

Vapirko wrote: »

Oblivion damage is fine, it's torugs pact that's the issue seeing as it's a mag set and there is no stam equivalent. So you're handing a massive boost to unresistable, unblockabale damage unaffected by battle spirit to mag sorcs which already have an edge.

The only bonus torugs gives that makes it a "magicka set" is 129 spell damage. I hate to be that guy, but that one spell damage boost isn't going to make or break a stamina or magicka build.

They should cap the dmg of the oblivion glyph so it wont be so ridiculous. Neither infused or torugs should buff it at all.

Drummerx04 wrote: »

except you can't mitigate this instant and invisible damage with ANYTHING.

Emphasis on "ANYTHING". Ignores a DK's Magma Shell ultimate. Ignores a NB's Veil ultimate. Bypasses the Barrier ultimate. Ignores Mist Form. Ignores block. Ignores all armor resistance as if the attacker has infinite penetration (why even bother with Sharpened?). Bypasses all shielding.

@GreenSoup2HoT Are you going to say with a straight face that this kind of damage is balanced?

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Oblivion damage is fine, it's torugs pact that's the issue seeing as it's a mag set and there is no stam equivalent. So you're handing a massive boost to unresistable, unblockabale damage unaffected by battle spirit to mag sorcs which already have an edge.

The only bonus torugs gives that makes it a "magicka set" is 129 spell damage. I hate to be that guy, but that one spell damage boost isn't going to make or break a stamina or magicka build.

Once upon a time, the Torug 4p was Weapon Damage, so it had both SD and WD. It was changed to Spell Resistance back in the IC patch, IIRC.

@code65536

He is. According to him slotting Engine Guardian and praying for a heal proc is sufficient counterplay.

Yea, and the list was insufficient for the upcoming state. If the fix ZOS announced is what I believe it will be - making the calculation work as stated - it will still be a proc every 1.4 seconds (instead of 0.8) with 2 to 3k damage.

For noCP that means:

- Rapid Regen is a 700ish HoT non crit and unreliable in a non 1v1 with anyone nearby because you don't get the heal often
- Lingering health pots are in the same magnitude, are expensive, and rule out other options
- Matriarch as burst heal would be sufficient to heal through, but the skill has high cost and all the problems pets have, mostly that it can be killed quickly with a slow resummon.
- Engine Guardian may proc or not proc the heal. Unreliable.
- Healing Ward heals only if and after it expires, and has the same limitations as Rapid regen when other players are nearby
- Surge is unreliable as well as it requires to hit with a crit, also it's a flat 1500 heal or so

So yes, in theory you can maybe outheal it when everything breaks your way. You're not going on the offensive meanwhile because of the other damage applied on top.

And what does your opponent give up? Nothing. He doesn't even have to build for it like with Shieldbreaker. Yeah. Balanced.

With the oblivion damage glyph we reached a new height of removing counterplay. It all started when poisons came into the game, and abilities being "only purgeable" was seen as enough counterplay.
More and more things were added removing counterplay a cross the board. Channels being undodgeable, curse being non-blockable, Soul Assault only blockable, non interruptable, non cloakable with 20% damage increase and granting cc immunity to the caster. AoE's being undodgeable, destro ult with huge damage, unblockable, undodgeable. Dive being undodgeable, deep fissure going through block while being undodgeable, resto ult being completely overperforming aswell as shield ult. Procs dealing more damage than ultimates with being visible.

All of the offensive skills I mentioned scale way too good with numbers, having 4 curses on you which explode at the same time is an instant death, 3 bird spamming wardens kill every medium armor build in 2 seconds, 3 templars who spam beam and dark flare can kill any build that isn't a full tanks while staying 30m away from the target, bomb zergs can kill everyone while having 40k health because destro ult scales so good with numbers.
All the things above have 1 or 2 ways to counter them but now with an equivalent of viper that procs every 1.4 seconds which deals 3k+ damage to any build, counterplay is completely removed. A 10 man group can kill 99% of the players in cyro with only 1 light attack from every group member in under .5 seconds.
2ppl can kill any build with less than 4.2k hps with only spamming light attacks.

@ZOS_GinaBruno this will completely destroy the game. Oblivion damage has to be removed or completely changed to a heal or add an immunity for 5 seconds to oblivion damage when being hit by an oblivion damage glyph.

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

rafaelcsmaia wrote: »

@GreenSoup2HoT You are forgetting this crap proc off weapon dots aswell, this will turn any poison injection or destructive reach into a massive unmitigable dot on your ass, good luck kiting or dodging that, counterplay will be an absolute joke, this is like auto viper through defenses every 1,4 seconds, not to count the actual burst rotation, its absolutely crazy!

Lol are you kidding me? So I can proc a guarantee 3k damage every 2.5 seconds with poison injection? Man that's broken. I knew that it worked with DoT ticks of elemental wall, but I wasn't expecting stamina to be equally OP.

Any weapon based ability can proc this bullcrap, its really maddening

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

rafaelcsmaia wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

rafaelcsmaia wrote: »

@GreenSoup2HoT You are forgetting this crap proc off weapon dots aswell, this will turn any poison injection or destructive reach into a massive unmitigable dot on your ass, good luck kiting or dodging that, counterplay will be an absolute joke, this is like auto viper through defenses every 1,4 seconds, not to count the actual burst rotation, its absolutely crazy!

Lol are you kidding me? So I can proc a guarantee 3k damage every 2.5 seconds with poison injection? Man that's broken. I knew that it worked with DoT ticks of elemental wall, but I wasn't expecting stamina to be equally OP.

Any weapon based ability can proc this bullcrap, its really maddening

That is quite ridiculous indeed. And you don't even have to be on that bar at the time eh?

To elaborate, only AoE dots can proc enchants. Poison injection will proc it on the first direct hit, not on the DoT.
And only the enchantment of active weapon.

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

I'm sorry, but have you heard about the destro ult? Or perhaps Soul Assault?

The aforementioned are horrendous for balance. The Oblivion enchant is fine. It's Torag's pact I'm concerned with.

If you die to Soul Assault you're just bad, sorry to break it to you. Destro ults are as simple as don't stand in stupid.

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

g

SodanTok wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

rafaelcsmaia wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

rafaelcsmaia wrote: »

@GreenSoup2HoT You are forgetting this crap proc off weapon dots aswell, this will turn any poison injection or destructive reach into a massive unmitigable dot on your ass, good luck kiting or dodging that, counterplay will be an absolute joke, this is like auto viper through defenses every 1,4 seconds, not to count the actual burst rotation, its absolutely crazy!

Lol are you kidding me? So I can proc a guarantee 3k damage every 2.5 seconds with poison injection? Man that's broken. I knew that it worked with DoT ticks of elemental wall, but I wasn't expecting stamina to be equally OP.

Any weapon based ability can proc this bullcrap, its really maddening

That is quite ridiculous indeed. And you don't even have to be on that bar at the time eh?

To elaborate, only AoE dots can proc enchants. Poison injection will proc it on the first direct hit, not on the DoT.
And only the enchantment of active weapon.

When you swap bars with an active aoe dot, will it proc either weapon enchant? Whats all this double enchant procing with off bar?

I dont know where it comes from, maybe PTS bug or weird interaction. In the 5m i went to LIVE to quickly check DoTs do not proc ench I did not have regular enchant on second weapon so I could not test that (I had just wep power which procs on light), but you cannot proc enchantment from backbar weapon when you are on your front even if that AoE dot comes from backbar.

Not to mention same enchantments always had shared CD yet I see everywhere people saying you will proc two oblivion by swapping. I dont know if PTS is just buggy mess at this point (had to delete hdd nd wont be installing it again till next pts), but most of these interactions I see in these threads just arent possible on live.
Obviously procing two enchants from AoE DoT by bar swapping is possible but that was always the case. I guess it is more cancerous now because both of these enchants will have short cd and high damage.

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

There is something fundamentally wrong with Oblivion Damage in a PvP environment. There is no counterplay. You can't block it. You can't mitigate it. You can't shield it. I can understand this kind of damage being used by enemies in PvE (e.g., it's used to great effect in vHoF to force people to respect certain mechanics), but this kind of damage should not exist in PvP where the key word is counterplay.

There is counterplay. Theres no counterplay against the bugged torags infused though.... which is getting fixed.

Players who refuse to adjust their builds and adapt to the new damage bypassing shields/block/resistances need to get more heals and learn to go on the offensive so your opponent cant spam enchants. Smart play counters this.

Most of the people complaining are sorcs who dont slot any healing outside healing ward.

If your a sorc and let a bowtard with shield breaker spam you to death its your fault. Its the same thing with oblivion infused. CC/kite/go offensive, play smart, etc.

Sorry if you rework your statement further down, but I got hung on this here.

First of, what kind of pressure can I constantly apply that someone is forced to go full defense with not a single light attack in between every 1.5 seconds?
And how can I do this in open world PvP, Cyrodiil, when there are multiple people around me?

Second: your healing argument. You know that Mutagen and even the Resto Ult are not reliable? It isn't garantueed that you will get the heal. Spamming pet heals or that 1.4 second dark deal is no solution.

Yes, I main a sorc. But a Stam Sorc. I will take a look at my heals

Asuming I run 2h.
Vigor for 1.3-2k every sec. + those 1k from Rally every 2 sec. Means I get between 2.3 and 3.3 heals passively. That's barely enough to cover the oblivion damage alone. Completely ignoring the damage from LA or skills that apply these uncouterable damage.

What if I don't run 2h? DW will grant bloodthirst. With my PvP Setup that is around 2k (non crit) in PVE ! Means barely 1k or even less IF I can hit the last strike every second.

I could waste another skill slot for surge to get another unreliable heal. Undefiled it's what? 2-2.5k? Okay, here I might think you could outheal a bit, but only if it's one person that is using OD on you.

Should I perma dodge? Lightning and Resto will counter this too.


I actually thought about running an infused Resto with Oblivion on backbar for the undodgeable HA, the mag return and the Ultimate. 1h+s on front for major defile. And then good luck with outhealing anything.