When you say top tier list them.Not a lot of the top tier players play anymore.Unfadingsilence wrote: »I'm sorry but that setup is your health is way to low same with your stam.1 Incap Selene combo and your dead with that build.Your build is reliant on dodge roll and cloaking but if you fight someone with a brain and no how to counter cloak your screwed and can't heal.You have a lot of stam recovery so you can dodge roll alot even then there a lot of abilities that goes to dodge roll.Unfadingsilence wrote: »thankyourat wrote: »Knootewoot wrote: »If my magblade could not cloak many times he would never survive anything. Less protection then stamblades and less burst and still as a melee maglbade I have to come up close and try to get the upperhand. If it fails I have 2 options:
-die
-try to cloak away
The first one works always
The second option fails a lot because I get caltrops thrown over me, I get rooted in place, people drink detection potions and I think I am cloaked but still get beaten, or I get marked by another NB, people spam flare etc.
It might be a l2p issue on my side if people watch streams mag NB's owning cyrodill in 1 vs XXX. But that is not the reality.
No nightblade can stand toe to toe with DK's or sorcs. Some of us use cloak to get away and "reset" the fight. Others use gear to make distance and retry and pick people from distance (and yet hordes of people try to chase them and get picked of one by one)
Cloak is for at least magblade in light armor and melee the only means of escaping a failed attempt.
I don't say NB is to weak, but without cloak melee magblade is extinct. And stamblades can cloak mostly 4-5 times (on my Breton stamblade I could). If they are perma invisible for quit some time, that is due to invisibilty potions available to all players who have Alchemy. They last 14-15 seconds.
It's a L2P issue, you forgot something important, the best escape skill in the game : SHADOW IMAGE. With it, you can escape 99% of fight associated with cloak.
That's only if you hide the shadow image behind line of sight and you are not snared. If your opponent knows how to play and you are snared its going to be impossible to escape. Magblade is all about positioning so if they are snared they will have a hard time doing anything including escaping fights.Unfadingsilence wrote: »So I did a screen shot of stats in none CP and a CP campaign these are fully buffed with continuous attack as well first here is none CP
None CP campaign
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/UnfadingSilence/screenshot/6952805
CP campaign
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/UnfadingSilence/screenshot/6952810
And last let's show the video of me doing cloak I used a few pots and I can if I wanted to perma cloak on my Stam NB I messed up a few times but all in all 50 cloaks yes 50
http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/UnfadingSilence/video/34371504
That's out of combat cloaks though once in combat you will not be able to cloak as much. You also have to sacrifice alot of health making you vunerable to being one shot off you are pinned down with a cc followed by a high damaging ability. So your build seems pretty balanced
So far with this set up I have yet to be 1 shot and in combat my cloak is around 15 or so with a pot
I have yet to run into anyone who can kill me all out with a combo even top tier players on Xbox NA I have been killed in 1v1 and so on but yet to have anyone just burst me down all my build runs off of dodge rolls cloak and dot damage 4 dots all together and 2 of them go off with just 1 hit and my CP set up along with my NB passives it only takes a few hits to burst someone down on my end a few more if they are in heavy or spamming Shields the whole time
deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »The key to cloak is not standing in red before a cloak. Break LoS before a cloak. Most importantly, dodge roll right before a cloak away from your enemy to avoid even AoE or inner light and you are fine.
Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »The key to cloak is not standing in red before a cloak. Break LoS before a cloak. Most importantly, dodge roll right before a cloak away from your enemy to avoid even AoE or inner light and you are fine.
Inner light can be dodged?
Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »The key to cloak is not standing in red before a cloak. Break LoS before a cloak. Most importantly, dodge roll right before a cloak away from your enemy to avoid even AoE or inner light and you are fine.
Inner light can be dodged?
Inner light's range is so short that a roll dodge will bring you out of detection radius.
For comparison, a DK can hit you with flame lash while standing out of the radius.
datoliteb16_ESO wrote: »Stealth in PvP is lame in any MMO. It shouldn't basically be a get out of jail free card. If you pick a fight you should have to see it to its end. Just my opinion.
deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »The key to cloak is not standing in red before a cloak. Break LoS before a cloak. Most importantly, dodge roll right before a cloak away from your enemy to avoid even AoE or inner light and you are fine.
Inner light can be dodged?
Inner light's range is so short that a roll dodge will bring you out of detection radius.
For comparison, a DK can hit you with flame lash while standing out of the radius.
What he/she said.
And for a millionth time....stop comparing streak and cloak. Oranges to apples. Want to further nerf cloak after it's already been nerfed twice? Okay. Give nightblades class based shields or a burst heal. I'll bet you money you'd be screaming for cloak to come back.
deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »And for a millionth time....stop comparing streak and cloak. Oranges to apples. Want to further nerf cloak after it's already been nerfed twice? Okay. Give nightblades class based shields or a burst heal. I'll bet you money you'd be screaming for cloak to come back.
wolfwraith37 wrote: »deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »And for a millionth time....stop comparing streak and cloak. Oranges to apples. Want to further nerf cloak after it's already been nerfed twice? Okay. Give nightblades class based shields or a burst heal. I'll bet you money you'd be screaming for cloak to come back.
Considering that people in this thread have been given a million and one ways to break cloak and all their responses basically amount to "but I dun wanna!", it's clear these people will only be happy if a NB stands still and let's themselves get killed.
What other class have a potion or poison that completely negate their class defense?Where my potion to stop a sorc from using shields,Where my potion to stop a DK and templar from healing?You can make a magic detect immovable pot.Which will help you detect the NB and keep you from being CC.Where the negative from using that potions?wolfwraith37 wrote: »deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »And for a millionth time....stop comparing streak and cloak. Oranges to apples. Want to further nerf cloak after it's already been nerfed twice? Okay. Give nightblades class based shields or a burst heal. I'll bet you money you'd be screaming for cloak to come back.
Considering that people in this thread have been given a million and one ways to break cloak and all their responses basically amount to "but I dun wanna!", it's clear these people will only be happy if a NB stands still and let's themselves get killed.
Not true again...
to beat cloak you need to sacrifice an ability slot or Potion or both...
making you short on these against ANYOTHER CLASS....
Dalsinthus wrote: »I really wish people would try out the different classes more throughly before coming to the forums to rant and ask for nerfs about sorc shields, unkillable tanks, templar heals, cloaking stamblades, or whatever complaint is the flavor of the week (undodgable cliff racers?). In my experience it takes a fair bit of practice to use any of these skills effectively when facing off against reasonably good players and there are plenty of counters to each.
To cloak 4-5 times in a row as a stamblade requires you to build for it and time it carefully. That means recovery food / drink like jewels of misrule, armor sets with magic recovery like shackle breaker, or recovery glyphs. All of this comes at a cost to damage and sustain on your primary resource. That is good game design. (And even then it commonly fails to work.)
Yes, cloak synergies well with shade and with fear, but that combo is 3/10 of your bar space - which doesn't give you damage or heals or much in the way of direct mitigation. Again this is also a good design trade off. These are also flavorful powers that give the class a unique identity.
On top of that, Cloak has lots of counters. I like piercing mark, templar jabs, or detect pots depending on which character I'm running. With those stamblades melt under pressure and magblades basically do as well, although magblades often have shields as a back up. The best things about detect pots is that they can be easily swapped for a more useful potion when you're not fighting a nightblade and they can be combined with immovability and magic recovery to counter fear and incap.
So please, try out a night blade for a while. They are fun but they aren't really any better than the other strong builds for the other classes (except maybe warden, I don't have much time logged on those).
Just my 2 cents. And yes, I recognize the irony in complaining about complaining.
What other class have a potion or poison that completely negate their class defense?Where my potion to stop a sorc from using shields,Where my potion to stop a DK and templar from healing?You can make a magic detect immovable pot.Which will help you detect the NB and keep you from being CC.Where the negative from using that potions?wolfwraith37 wrote: »deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »And for a millionth time....stop comparing streak and cloak. Oranges to apples. Want to further nerf cloak after it's already been nerfed twice? Okay. Give nightblades class based shields or a burst heal. I'll bet you money you'd be screaming for cloak to come back.
Considering that people in this thread have been given a million and one ways to break cloak and all their responses basically amount to "but I dun wanna!", it's clear these people will only be happy if a NB stands still and let's themselves get killed.
Not true again...
to beat cloak you need to sacrifice an ability slot or Potion or both...
making you short on these against ANYOTHER CLASS....
What Magic build doesn't use Magelight?How are you sacrificing a skill when its always on your bar already.On a stambuild stam sorc have hurricane,stamplars have jabs and extended ritual ,Votive armor will break cloak for a dk and NB have fear or they can run mark.Reverse slice have broken cloak for me before in lag.None of those abilities I just listed are a sacrifice,you would run that in a regular build anyway.Only class that have to run something they usually wouldn't is NB.
What are you sacrificing to counter cloak on any build nothing you are complaining just to complain.
The tears I would flood a desert.rfennell_ESO wrote: »What other class have a potion or poison that completely negate their class defense?Where my potion to stop a sorc from using shields,Where my potion to stop a DK and templar from healing?You can make a magic detect immovable pot.Which will help you detect the NB and keep you from being CC.Where the negative from using that potions?wolfwraith37 wrote: »deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »And for a millionth time....stop comparing streak and cloak. Oranges to apples. Want to further nerf cloak after it's already been nerfed twice? Okay. Give nightblades class based shields or a burst heal. I'll bet you money you'd be screaming for cloak to come back.
Considering that people in this thread have been given a million and one ways to break cloak and all their responses basically amount to "but I dun wanna!", it's clear these people will only be happy if a NB stands still and let's themselves get killed.
Not true again...
to beat cloak you need to sacrifice an ability slot or Potion or both...
making you short on these against ANYOTHER CLASS....
What Magic build doesn't use Magelight?How are you sacrificing a skill when its always on your bar already.On a stambuild stam sorc have hurricane,stamplars have jabs and extended ritual ,Votive armor will break cloak for a dk and NB have fear or they can run mark.Reverse slice have broken cloak for me before in lag.None of those abilities I just listed are a sacrifice,you would run that in a regular build anyway.Only class that have to run something they usually wouldn't is NB.
What are you sacrificing to counter cloak on any build nothing you are complaining just to complain.
Imagine if there was a potion that gave shield penetration and it affected the entire group.
The cries would be legendary.
wolfwraith37 wrote: »deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »And for a millionth time....stop comparing streak and cloak. Oranges to apples. Want to further nerf cloak after it's already been nerfed twice? Okay. Give nightblades class based shields or a burst heal. I'll bet you money you'd be screaming for cloak to come back.
Considering that people in this thread have been given a million and one ways to break cloak and all their responses basically amount to "but I dun wanna!", it's clear these people will only be happy if a NB stands still and let's themselves get killed.
Not true again...
to beat cloak you need to sacrafice an ability slot or Potion or both...
making you short on these againts ANYOTHER CLASS.... hows that even fair ? imagen if every class would have an ability that you will 80% of times lose againts if you not hard counter it with another class ability that is almost useless againts any other class ?
yeah the game would end up broken....
wolfwraith37 wrote: »deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »And for a millionth time....stop comparing streak and cloak. Oranges to apples. Want to further nerf cloak after it's already been nerfed twice? Okay. Give nightblades class based shields or a burst heal. I'll bet you money you'd be screaming for cloak to come back.
Considering that people in this thread have been given a million and one ways to break cloak and all their responses basically amount to "but I dun wanna!", it's clear these people will only be happy if a NB stands still and let's themselves get killed.
Not true again...
to beat cloak you need to sacrafice an ability slot or Potion or both...
making you short on these againts ANYOTHER CLASS.... hows that even fair ? imagen if every class would have an ability that you will 80% of times lose againts if you not hard counter it with another class ability that is almost useless againts any other class ?
yeah the game would end up broken....
You mean you slot an ability to negate an ability I slot? Sorta like abilities that apply defile to negate heals? Or EVERY sorc on the planet saying "shield is fine - just slot fear"..
God it must be horrible to have plan to plan or put effort into beating some specs/classes. Oh the tears rain down from heaven from your suffering.
Maybe make a stam morph of cloak that (instead of invisibility) gives 100% dodge all damage for a fixed amount of damage (based on your stamina pool) and that pool can't be crit? And the buff lasts 6s but has no cost increase for spamming.
Would that be OP?
I like hw you ignored my post that completely counters everything you just said because most of the counters to cloak you will already have on your bar anyway.wolfwraith37 wrote: »deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »And for a millionth time....stop comparing streak and cloak. Oranges to apples. Want to further nerf cloak after it's already been nerfed twice? Okay. Give nightblades class based shields or a burst heal. I'll bet you money you'd be screaming for cloak to come back.
Considering that people in this thread have been given a million and one ways to break cloak and all their responses basically amount to "but I dun wanna!", it's clear these people will only be happy if a NB stands still and let's themselves get killed.
Not true again...
to beat cloak you need to sacrafice an ability slot or Potion or both...
making you short on these againts ANYOTHER CLASS.... hows that even fair ? imagen if every class would have an ability that you will 80% of times lose againts if you not hard counter it with another class ability that is almost useless againts any other class ?
yeah the game would end up broken....
You mean you slot an ability to negate an ability I slot? Sorta like abilities that apply defile to negate heals? Or EVERY sorc on the planet saying "shield is fine - just slot fear"..
God it must be horrible to have plan to plan or put effort into beating some specs/classes. Oh the tears rain down from heaven from your suffering.
all those abilities you listed prety much work againts anyone fine so keeping them on your bar you not sacrafize slots and abilities and you dont go into a fight handycapped againts any class...
Maybe make a stam morph of cloak that (instead of invisibility) gives 100% dodge all damage for a fixed amount of damage (based on your stamina pool) and that pool can't be crit? And the buff lasts 6s but has no cost increase for spamming.
Would that be OP?
its allready gives 100% dodge...
miss miss miss miss miss miss.... you can even dodge allready applyed Dots with it... miss miss....
Which is why stamblades are the worst dueling class.thankyourat wrote: »Maybe make a stam morph of cloak that (instead of invisibility) gives 100% dodge all damage for a fixed amount of damage (based on your stamina pool) and that pool can't be crit? And the buff lasts 6s but has no cost increase for spamming.
Would that be OP?
its allready gives 100% dodge...
miss miss miss miss miss miss.... you can even dodge allready applyed Dots with it... miss miss....
That's why you use an ability that's undodgeable like aoes, most ultimates are aoe and have the most burst damage in the game if you hit one of those 18k 19k health stamblades with a undodgeable ultimate followed by your spammable dps you will basically one shot them. mostly all my fights with stamblades even the really good ones, the stamblade goes for 100% health to 0 in under two seconds. It's just too much uncounterable high damage burst in this game. Anyone who duels frequently will have no problem killing a cloak spamming nightblade.
all those abilities you listed prety much work againts anyone fine so keeping them on your bar you not sacrafize slots and abilities and you dont go into a fight handycapped againts any class...
I like how people want to nerf cloak, treating that ability as some sort of "I win" button, while ignoring the fact that the only other defense stamblades have is dodge roll, and let's be honest NBs are doing zero damage while rolling.
Meanwhile we have Templars and DKs tanking groups effortlessly while dishing out big crits, and Sorcs spamming the living hell out of shields without any significant drain on magicka, but nobody bats an eye.
If you want to nerf cloak for the sake of balance, then you will surely agree with the folowing nerfs as well:
- Heavy armor wearers now cannot sprint and sneak.
- Wearing heavy armor reduces stamina and magicka regen by 50% and prevents you from healing yourself.
- Equipping a shield prevents you from landing a crit with damage and healing abilities.
- Casting damage shield raises the cost of all other damage shield abilities by 33% for 10 seconds. This can stack indefinitely and every damage shield ability cast also refreshes previous stacks.
I like how people want to nerf cloak, treating that ability as some sort of "I win" button, while ignoring the fact that the only other defense stamblades have is dodge roll, and let's be honest NBs are doing zero damage while rolling.
Meanwhile we have Templars and DKs tanking groups effortlessly while dishing out big crits, and Sorcs spamming the living hell out of shields without any significant drain on magicka, but nobody bats an eye.
If you want to nerf cloak for the sake of balance, then you will surely agree with the folowing nerfs as well:
- Heavy armor wearers now cannot sprint and sneak.
- Wearing heavy armor reduces stamina and magicka regen by 50% and prevents you from healing yourself.
- Equipping a shield prevents you from landing a crit with damage and healing abilities.
- Casting damage shield raises the cost of all other damage shield abilities by 33% for 10 seconds. This can stack indefinitely and every damage shield ability cast also refreshes previous stacks.
You couldn't be further off. Neither of what you listed allows you to completely disassociate from attacks like cloak. You also have shades and the best cc, fear.
As for other classes, DK and temp heal/blockbots have to sacrifice damage and mobility for their strengths. Heals can be defiled and block stops stam recovery.
I agree with you on shields, socs don't have to sacrifice anything for them, and shield spam is as bad as cloak spam by nooblades. No one wants to nerf shields/cloak itself, only the spam of it.
As for other classes, DK and temp heal/blockbots have to sacrifice damage and mobility for their strengths. Heals can be defiled and block stops stam recovery.