Cloaking in PvP

KingJ

Solariken wrote: »

Dalsinthus wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

The thing I hate most about cloak is that it suppresses all DOTs. That is such a stupid crutch get-out-of-jail-free card. Isn't it enough that Cloak makes you invisible, hit harder, and move faster?

I love playing stamblade but that particular feature of cloak is completely over the top.

One morph of cloak used to cleans the dots. It was a nerf when it was changed to mere suppression. Dots are to prevelent in the game to have cloak not work at all when dots are present. Would make it virtually unusable as intended.

Besides, OP is likely incorrect with his assumption of what he saw. Stamblades cannot cloak for long since they lack the max magicka and magicka regen. It was likely a potion used, and maybe cloak a time or two along with it.

No to be clear I don't think DOTs should break cloak, but the damage should continue IMO.

That's an interesting idea and it could work, but I think you'd have to give nbs some access to major mending or they would just melt. It's already the squishiest class.

Properly built stamblades aren't squishy at all. You know that Shadowy Disguise > Rally is already a full-health heal right?

It's won't get you to full health from 20% but its will get you to 60-70% close.I can crit heal with any class plus stamplar and stamdk have minor and major mending and multiple other bonus to healing receive.Stamplar have minor mending and vitality.Pop run and rally I'm back at 100% on my stamplar.

joe.smith21b14_ESO

CavalryPK wrote: »

gaimers wrote: »

Using cloak and playing sneaky is part of being a nightblade, I know, and also it provides the class something unique.

However, lately I experienced fights, that have shown me, how annoying it can be to fight someone using cloak.

I am not really pointing at a magicka build right now, since they can sustain permanent cloaking. (Sadly )

But I want to talk about stamina builds. We all know cloak is an important part of stamblade builds. Crit heals, avoiding damage while waiting for dodge roll cost reset etc etc.

However very few skills, that SOLO/SMALLSCALE PvPers can get away with using , can detect cloaking players. Do keep in mind I'm not talking about someone, who sees 2-3 people riding on a horse, and goes into cloak to avoid a disadvantageous situation. The matter I'm talking about is engaging and disengaging combat.

I mostly play stam DK, group mostly consists of 2DKs, stamina and magicka. I do run volatile armor, which can break cloak. Magicka DK does use talons and volatile a. However the fact, that when we focus a stamblade who uses cloak after his health got down to ~10% AND ESCAPES WITHOUT EVER POPPING OUT OF STEALTH AGAIN, makes nightblade a really annoying class to fight against.

Stamina nightblades being able to cloak 4-5 times without a potion, USING A BUILD THAT IS VIABLE AND STILL DOES GOOD DAMAGE is an absolute no-go for me.

Cloak should get reworked like streak, making it cost more and more if cast more than once in a certain amount of time. No other class has the luxury, to get in and out of combat so quickly and being able to disappear in front of people.

Streak is a good example imo, it is used by both stamina and magicka sorcerer builds, magicka sorc still can afford to use it 4-5 times without draining his resources too much. Stamina can use it just enough to get behind line of sight etc.

Cloak should work the same way in my opinion.

What do others think about this?

P.S. the fact that half of the people we see in cyro are nightblades makes this even more annoying

I mostly agree with you . Please can you share a build (or tell me the name of a person) of a stamblade that can cloak 4-5 times with out using potion? I need this for reasons.

That smiff guy can cloak like 30 times without a pot.
True story

rimmidimdim

I think the range on the detect abilities should be increased. Maybe by a 100%? My thoughts. Cheers.

Ariades_swe

Buff cloak. Worst skill in the game!!

sly007

Malmai wrote: »

gaimers wrote: »

Using cloak and playing sneaky is part of being a nightblade, I know, and also it provides the class something unique.

However, lately I experienced fights, that have shown me, how annoying it can be to fight someone using cloak.

I am not really pointing at a magicka build right now, since they can sustain permanent cloaking. (Sadly )

But I want to talk about stamina builds. We all know cloak is an important part of stamblade builds. Crit heals, avoiding damage while waiting for dodge roll cost reset etc etc.

However very few skills, that SOLO/SMALLSCALE PvPers can get away with using , can detect cloaking players. Do keep in mind I'm not talking about someone, who sees 2-3 people riding on a horse, and goes into cloak to avoid a disadvantageous situation. The matter I'm talking about is engaging and disengaging combat.

I mostly play stam DK, group mostly consists of 2DKs, stamina and magicka. I do run volatile armor, which can break cloak. Magicka DK does use talons and volatile a. However the fact, that when we focus a stamblade who uses cloak after his health got down to ~10% AND ESCAPES WITHOUT EVER POPPING OUT OF STEALTH AGAIN, makes nightblade a really annoying class to fight against.

Stamina nightblades being able to cloak 4-5 times without a potion, USING A BUILD THAT IS VIABLE AND STILL DOES GOOD DAMAGE is an absolute no-go for me.

Cloak should get reworked like streak, making it cost more and more if cast more than once in a certain amount of time. No other class has the luxury, to get in and out of combat so quickly and being able to disappear in front of people.

Streak is a good example imo, it is used by both stamina and magicka sorcerer builds, magicka sorc still can afford to use it 4-5 times without draining his resources too much. Stamina can use it just enough to get behind line of sight etc.

Cloak should work the same way in my opinion.

What do others think about this?

P.S. the fact that half of the people we see in cyro are nightblades makes this even more annoying

So you want to tell me to fight 1v1 vs stam dk with so many buffs that u cant even kill him 1v5 and with 10 k resist vs 30k and so many passives on dk that is just absurd if u wanna go 1v1 with dk... Let me just stand there while u beat me LoL...

Where are you getting these abitrary resistances from? Another clueless assumption about dks having 30k resistance while nbs have 10k.

Let's disregard the fact that you are wrong and focus on cloak and whether it outperforms or not. From my experience, cloak has only been am issue on my stamina characters because stamina do not the the luxury of slotting an aoe ability like steel tornado, arrow spray or brawler to pull cloaking night blades out of cloak nor do they want to slot a magicka potion, losing stamina for a nb that would get away.

Sorcs have streak and curse which work well, magicka did have deep breath (talons radius is simply to small to effective counter cloak, Templars could use ritual of retribution but that's not too effective on a moving target. Stamina players could try using expert hunter but that also shares the small radius problem.

Most nbs will succeed to get away from me if they really want to using cloak. They only time they fail is when they stay to continue the fight think they would win. I have yet to lose a playing using mist form or sprinting. Bolt escape is simply a sprint away to catch or a gapclose away. Cloak is not that simple. It's very effective which is good for nbs. It hasn't been for a while, so of course when It works properly, we got post such as these, but the level of commitment it requires to counter a cloaking nb far exceeds every other escape tool.

Spamming aoes consumes a lot of resources, yet I could spam chains on a misting or sprinting player and in their attempt to escape, they do not recover either magicka while misting, or stamina while sprinting. Bolt escape increases in cost after every cast within 4 seconds. Same with roll dodge.

So, cloak is definitely outperforming sprint, roll dodge, and most which it should since it is a unique class ability, but it should share the same cost management issues that all the others share. Being in cloak, like mist form, should cease all magicka regeneration.

KingJ

Fr why the hell are people crying that someone ran away from them you won they ran damn.

Zordrage

my issues with NBs is the fact that Cloak is the strongest existing defense CD ever and they can prety much spam it forever..

Cloak

- makes all your attacks miss
- makes your ALLREADY PLACED DOTS miss.....
- can spam it almost forever to get out of ANY situation....
- for stam blade they dont need to sacrafice Stamina aka dmg to be able to use it...
- its bassicaly a spammable Immunity that is also the best escape ability....
- you need special stuff to counter it wasting one of your Pot slot or skill slot in any other existing fight.....

Any nightblade says that its not usable many times or that it not works half the time... is lying and i call BS on it.... i see them Spam enough to know this is not true.....

Wish i could just block infinitly while doing glass cannon Dmg.......

Stealth abilities in a Game where there are NO CDs on abilities so its spammable will allways be broken as hell....

KingJ

Zoliru wrote: »

my issues with NBs is the fact that Cloak is the strongest existing defense CD ever and they can prety much spam it forever..

Cloak

- makes all your attacks miss
- makes your ALLREADY PLACED DOTS miss.....
- can spam it almost forever to get out of ANY situation....
- for stam blade they dont need to sacrafice Stamina aka dmg to be able to use it...
- its bassicaly a spammable Immunity that is also the best escape ability....
- you need special stuff to counter it wasting one of your Pot slot or skill slot in any other existing fight.....

Any nightblade says that its not usable many times or that it not works half the time... is lying and i call BS on it.... i see them Spam enough to know this is not true.....

Wish i could just block infinitly while doing glass cannon Dmg.......

Stealth abilities in a Game where there are NO CDs on abilities so its spammable will allways be broken as hell....

Lawl.

thankyourat

Zoliru wrote: »

my issues with NBs is the fact that Cloak is the strongest existing defense CD ever and they can prety much spam it forever..

Cloak

- makes all your attacks miss
- makes your ALLREADY PLACED DOTS miss.....
- can spam it almost forever to get out of ANY situation....
- for stam blade they dont need to sacrafice Stamina aka dmg to be able to use it...
- its bassicaly a spammable Immunity that is also the best escape ability....
- you need special stuff to counter it wasting one of your Pot slot or skill slot in any other existing fight.....

Any nightblade says that its not usable many times or that it not works half the time... is lying and i call BS on it.... i see them Spam enough to know this is not true.....

Wish i could just block infinitly while doing glass cannon Dmg.......

Stealth abilities in a Game where there are NO CDs on abilities so its spammable will allways be broken as hell....

Just create a nightblade and try cloak for yourself. It really makes you want to pull your hair out sometimes. Especially if you are snared at the point you might as well save your magicka for something else

Solariken

KingJ wrote: »

Fr why the hell are people crying that someone ran away from them you won they ran damn.

Who says Cloak is only used to run away? From a zerg, sure. Usually Cloak is used to maintain a constant upper hand and/or completely negate or recover from an enemy burst attempt.

Grumble_and_Grunt

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

Grumble_and_Grunt wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

Steak is not even close to cloak. Steak actually creates distance, at which the sorc can replenish his mag pool. Cloak is so weak against groups, experienced players, and anyone with alchemy potions.

For the love of god. I was fighting a magblade emperor yesterday and can honestly say he was nowhere near as strong as a normal, well played sorc.

Cloak isn't even as strong as mist form.

lmao mist form stronger than cloak?
Sure any Templar and Mag DK would happily trade their mist form for cloak

Any NB claiming that mist form is more effective to disengage from combat than cloak is a bad NB.

Any NB saying cloak only works 50/50 of the time nowadays is a bad NB. You're just failing to use the ability effectively with other skills and your surroundings, most likely those people who get sneezed on in PvP and then instantly press cloak on the spot and wonder why their cloak doesn't go off xD

Seriously!!?
Mist form purges roots, snares, and grants major expedition! It reduces damage taken and you can even stack a healing ward on top of it that benifits from the reduced damage taken. If I'm snared, cloak is pretty useless, rooted useless, if my enemy has decent AOE, like you know, a Templar (pol/jabs), sorc (hurricane/streak/curse), DK (lots of stuff), NB (depends I guess). The point is. All these can deal with cloak much easier than mist form.

Sure I disengage against large groups and small groups of potatoes all the time with cloak. It's currently on my bar and works reasonably well with the other skills I'm running. But to say it's stronger than mist form or comparable to streak is nonsense if you consider a balanced, experienced, grp v grp scenario.

It is stronger than mist form. Yeah you list all the supposed benefits of mist form over cloak, but in reality the purge from roots/snares and major expedition are all made redundant by the fact gap closers counter act all of the above instantly, unless you plan to constantly spam mist form after mist form and cut off all your magicka regen.

Mobility is key to PvP in this game, that's why classes like magicka sorc and stam NB have the best times solo because they excel at those.

The scenario you mentioned about what to do when snared and that cloak is useless, well of course it is if that's the first skill you are going to press in that situation, why as every other Stam NB snared would dodge to create minute distance and to give yourself that new root immunity for a couple secs, insta shuffle to remove snare, place an image, dodge again with a vigor and a rally if needed then having proc'ed movement speed bow buff kite at an angle to either image back or to then cloak.

I dunno cloak is very powerful, I don't recommend nerfs to it as OP, it performs very well on stam NB with all the various new foods and drinks offering mag regen, but in that same situation, it would be more difficult for a Mag NB who can use cloak more often.

My point wasn't about cloak as the OP, but to compare Mist to Cloak and say mist is the better skill than why are you not using it? Why are no NBs slotting mist over cloak?

Give me Cloak on a Templar and you can have mist and I'll show you also in that case what is the better of the two :P

I'll just cleanse and peng be gone.

Zordrage

Solariken wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Fr why the hell are people crying that someone ran away from them you won they ran damn.

Who says Cloak is only used to run away? From a zerg, sure. Usually Cloak is used to maintain a constant upper hand and/or completely negate or recover from an enemy burst attempt.

or outright make your enemy in a 1v1 pull his hair out that 80% of the times he cant even hit you while you jumping in and out of cloak every few sec to land a total of 10k+ dmg every time you pop for a sec or 2 while he cant do jacks *** just run or die.....

KingJ

Solariken wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Fr why the hell are people crying that someone ran away from them you won they ran damn.

Who says Cloak is only used to run away? From a zerg, sure. Usually Cloak is used to maintain a constant upper hand and/or completely negate or recover from an enemy burst attempt.

My post didnt mention a zerg at all.I said why people cryingbecause someone ran away from them.If you are being chased by a zerg cloak will help you escape sometimes but a zerg will still find you they have access to cloak counters.In a 1v1 fight you use cloak as a main heal after being bursted by a more tanky class pretty much the only way we can heal.You also use it to repostion.Same when 1Vx you use to so you can actully heal when fighting outnumber3d.

Grumble_and_Grunt

KingJ wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Fr why the hell are people crying that someone ran away from them you won they ran damn.

Who says Cloak is only used to run away? From a zerg, sure. Usually Cloak is used to maintain a constant upper hand and/or completely negate or recover from an enemy burst attempt.

My post didnt mention a zerg at all.I said why people cryingbecause someone ran away from them.If you are being chased by a zerg cloak will help you escape sometimes but a zerg will still find you they have access to cloak counters.In a 1v1 fight you use cloak as a main heal after being bursted by a more tanky class pretty much the only way we can heal.You also use it to repostion.Same when 1Vx you use to so you can actully heal when fighting outnumber3d.

I assume most peoples problem is the in and out playstyle NBs are playing with at the moment with proc sets, once that's been addressed and a NB realises he has to do more than cloak and ambush incap rinse and repeat there will be less threads like these and more Buff NBs they are grossly underpowered threads again by the many pugs of Cyrodiil.

Maryal

Solariken wrote: »

The thing I hate most about cloak is that it suppresses all DOTs. That is such a stupid crutch get-out-of-jail-free card. Isn't it enough that Cloak makes you invisible, hit harder, and move faster?

I love playing stamblade but that particular feature of cloak is completely over the top.

I believe it was shortly after we got Imperial City that NB cloak was nerfed .. it used to purge 1 negative effect when you cloaked. ZOS removed the purge effect from cloak and replaced it with what we have now ... while in cloak negative effects are suspended (meaning you have to spam cloak for the duration of the negative effect in order to not be effected by it).

I really can't agree that the negative effect suppression part of cloak is 'over the top' ... it actually sucks compared to what we used to have, but at least it's better than nothing at all.

thankyourat

Grumble_and_Grunt wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

Grumble_and_Grunt wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

Steak is not even close to cloak. Steak actually creates distance, at which the sorc can replenish his mag pool. Cloak is so weak against groups, experienced players, and anyone with alchemy potions.

For the love of god. I was fighting a magblade emperor yesterday and can honestly say he was nowhere near as strong as a normal, well played sorc.

Cloak isn't even as strong as mist form.

lmao mist form stronger than cloak?
Sure any Templar and Mag DK would happily trade their mist form for cloak

Any NB claiming that mist form is more effective to disengage from combat than cloak is a bad NB.

Any NB saying cloak only works 50/50 of the time nowadays is a bad NB. You're just failing to use the ability effectively with other skills and your surroundings, most likely those people who get sneezed on in PvP and then instantly press cloak on the spot and wonder why their cloak doesn't go off xD

Seriously!!?
Mist form purges roots, snares, and grants major expedition! It reduces damage taken and you can even stack a healing ward on top of it that benifits from the reduced damage taken. If I'm snared, cloak is pretty useless, rooted useless, if my enemy has decent AOE, like you know, a Templar (pol/jabs), sorc (hurricane/streak/curse), DK (lots of stuff), NB (depends I guess). The point is. All these can deal with cloak much easier than mist form.

Sure I disengage against large groups and small groups of potatoes all the time with cloak. It's currently on my bar and works reasonably well with the other skills I'm running. But to say it's stronger than mist form or comparable to streak is nonsense if you consider a balanced, experienced, grp v grp scenario.

It is stronger than mist form. Yeah you list all the supposed benefits of mist form over cloak, but in reality the purge from roots/snares and major expedition are all made redundant by the fact gap closers counter act all of the above instantly, unless you plan to constantly spam mist form after mist form and cut off all your magicka regen.

Mobility is key to PvP in this game, that's why classes like magicka sorc and stam NB have the best times solo because they excel at those.

The scenario you mentioned about what to do when snared and that cloak is useless, well of course it is if that's the first skill you are going to press in that situation, why as every other Stam NB snared would dodge to create minute distance and to give yourself that new root immunity for a couple secs, insta shuffle to remove snare, place an image, dodge again with a vigor and a rally if needed then having proc'ed movement speed bow buff kite at an angle to either image back or to then cloak.

I dunno cloak is very powerful, I don't recommend nerfs to it as OP, it performs very well on stam NB with all the various new foods and drinks offering mag regen, but in that same situation, it would be more difficult for a Mag NB who can use cloak more often.

My point wasn't about cloak as the OP, but to compare Mist to Cloak and say mist is the better skill than why are you not using it? Why are no NBs slotting mist over cloak?

Give me Cloak on a Templar and you can have mist and I'll show you also in that case what is the better of the two :P

I'll just cleanse and peng be gone.

Nightblade doesn't have a purge though. Also gap closers snare you in cloak also. There are in fact a lot of magblades who slot mist form and dampen and don't use cloak at all because it's literally useless on a magblade if you are snared. Because even if you teleport to your shade first, a player can just walk over to your shade and aoe and since you are snared you didn't get too far away. I myself prefer Cloak because i play solo and i can use it to get into a spot i want to fight, but once in combat i rarely use cloak because i would just be wasting magicka. I really only use it to dodge ccs like dizzing swing and frags

Grumble_and_Grunt

thankyourat wrote: »

Grumble_and_Grunt wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

Grumble_and_Grunt wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

Steak is not even close to cloak. Steak actually creates distance, at which the sorc can replenish his mag pool. Cloak is so weak against groups, experienced players, and anyone with alchemy potions.

For the love of god. I was fighting a magblade emperor yesterday and can honestly say he was nowhere near as strong as a normal, well played sorc.

Cloak isn't even as strong as mist form.

lmao mist form stronger than cloak?
Sure any Templar and Mag DK would happily trade their mist form for cloak

Any NB claiming that mist form is more effective to disengage from combat than cloak is a bad NB.

Any NB saying cloak only works 50/50 of the time nowadays is a bad NB. You're just failing to use the ability effectively with other skills and your surroundings, most likely those people who get sneezed on in PvP and then instantly press cloak on the spot and wonder why their cloak doesn't go off xD

Seriously!!?
Mist form purges roots, snares, and grants major expedition! It reduces damage taken and you can even stack a healing ward on top of it that benifits from the reduced damage taken. If I'm snared, cloak is pretty useless, rooted useless, if my enemy has decent AOE, like you know, a Templar (pol/jabs), sorc (hurricane/streak/curse), DK (lots of stuff), NB (depends I guess). The point is. All these can deal with cloak much easier than mist form.

Sure I disengage against large groups and small groups of potatoes all the time with cloak. It's currently on my bar and works reasonably well with the other skills I'm running. But to say it's stronger than mist form or comparable to streak is nonsense if you consider a balanced, experienced, grp v grp scenario.

It is stronger than mist form. Yeah you list all the supposed benefits of mist form over cloak, but in reality the purge from roots/snares and major expedition are all made redundant by the fact gap closers counter act all of the above instantly, unless you plan to constantly spam mist form after mist form and cut off all your magicka regen.

Mobility is key to PvP in this game, that's why classes like magicka sorc and stam NB have the best times solo because they excel at those.

The scenario you mentioned about what to do when snared and that cloak is useless, well of course it is if that's the first skill you are going to press in that situation, why as every other Stam NB snared would dodge to create minute distance and to give yourself that new root immunity for a couple secs, insta shuffle to remove snare, place an image, dodge again with a vigor and a rally if needed then having proc'ed movement speed bow buff kite at an angle to either image back or to then cloak.

I dunno cloak is very powerful, I don't recommend nerfs to it as OP, it performs very well on stam NB with all the various new foods and drinks offering mag regen, but in that same situation, it would be more difficult for a Mag NB who can use cloak more often.

My point wasn't about cloak as the OP, but to compare Mist to Cloak and say mist is the better skill than why are you not using it? Why are no NBs slotting mist over cloak?

Give me Cloak on a Templar and you can have mist and I'll show you also in that case what is the better of the two :P

I'll just cleanse and peng be gone.

Nightblade doesn't have a purge though. Also gap closers snare you in cloak also. There are in fact a lot of magblades who slot mist form and dampen and don't use cloak at all because it's literally useless on a magblade if you are snared. Because even if you teleport to your shade first, a player can just walk over to your shade and aoe and since you are snared you didn't get too far away. I myself prefer Cloak because i play solo and i can use it to get into a spot i want to fight, but once in combat i rarely use cloak because i would just be wasting magicka. I really only use it to dodge ccs like dizzing swing and frags

Then make more use of your cripples to prevent them walking over to you post shade, utilise your space better, fear them off you when they come close and try again I dunno, mist has synergy with cloak also, but as a mageblade I doubt you're really going to be able to disengage more effectively with mist than cloak and if you're slotting mist over cloak in my opinion it's a waste

Drdeath20

Skills that were primarily designed for stealth detection (flare and magelight) are laughably bad and that is my only gripe.

ArgonianAustin

CavalryPK wrote: »

gaimers wrote: »

Using cloak and playing sneaky is part of being a nightblade, I know, and also it provides the class something unique.

However, lately I experienced fights, that have shown me, how annoying it can be to fight someone using cloak.

I am not really pointing at a magicka build right now, since they can sustain permanent cloaking. (Sadly )

But I want to talk about stamina builds. We all know cloak is an important part of stamblade builds. Crit heals, avoiding damage while waiting for dodge roll cost reset etc etc.

However very few skills, that SOLO/SMALLSCALE PvPers can get away with using , can detect cloaking players. Do keep in mind I'm not talking about someone, who sees 2-3 people riding on a horse, and goes into cloak to avoid a disadvantageous situation. The matter I'm talking about is engaging and disengaging combat.

I mostly play stam DK, group mostly consists of 2DKs, stamina and magicka. I do run volatile armor, which can break cloak. Magicka DK does use talons and volatile a. However the fact, that when we focus a stamblade who uses cloak after his health got down to ~10% AND ESCAPES WITHOUT EVER POPPING OUT OF STEALTH AGAIN, makes nightblade a really annoying class to fight against.

Stamina nightblades being able to cloak 4-5 times without a potion, USING A BUILD THAT IS VIABLE AND STILL DOES GOI mostly agree with you . Please can you share a build (or tell me the name of a person) of a stamblade that can cloak 4-5 times with out using potion? I need this for reasons.

CavalryPK wrote: »

gaimers wrote: »

Using cloak and playing sneaky is part of being a nightblade, I know, and also it provides the class something unique.

However, lately I experienced fights, that have shown me, how annoying it can be to fight someone using cloak.

I am not really pointing at a magicka build right now, since they can sustain permanent cloaking. (Sadly )

But I want to talk about stamina builds. We all know cloak is an important part of stamblade builds. Crit heals, avoiding damage while waiting for dodge roll cost reset etc etc.

However very few skills, that SOLO/SMALLSCALE PvPers can get away with using , can detect cloaking players. Do keep in mind I'm not talking about someone, who sees 2-3 people riding on a horse, and goes into cloak to avoid a disadvantageous situation. The matter I'm talking about is engaging and disengaging combat.

I mostly play stam DK, group mostly consists of 2DKs, stamina and magicka. I do run volatile armor, which can break cloak. Magicka DK does use talons and volatile a. However the fact, that when we focus a stamblade who uses cloak after his health got down to ~10% AND ESCAPES WITHOUT EVER POPPING OUT OF STEALTH AGAIN, makes nightblade a really annoying class to fight against.

Stamina nightblades being able to cloak 4-5 times without a potion, USING A BUILD THAT IS VIABLE AND STILL DOES GOOD DAMAGE is an absolute no-go for me.

Cloak should get reworked like streak, making it cost more and more if cast more than once in a certain amount of time. No other class has the luxury, to get in and out of combat so quickly and being able to disappear in front of people.

Streak is a good example imo, it is used by both stamina and magicka sorcerer builds, magicka sorc still can afford to use it 4-5 times without draining his resources too much. Stamina can use it just enough to get behind line of sight etc.

Cloak should work the same way in my opinion.

What do others think about this?

P.S. the fact that half of the people we see in cyro are nightblades makes this even more annoying

I mostly agree with you . Please can you share a build (or tell me the name of a person) of a stamblade that can cloak 4-5 times with out using potion? I need this for reasons.

can cloak like 15 times and I have good enough damage and I do have emp buff in this picture so I'm around 25k health.

ArgonianAustin

If I drank a potion, capture resource, kill add with two-hander I'd have like 5k stam recovery and 2k mag if I used a mag plus stam potion. I'm using nirnhoned weapons so next update I'll have higher weapon damage and higher recovery along with more health because bigger stats. If I hit with berserk glyph and stealth that would be 4k plus weapon damage.

Metemsycosis

Ive been front barring radiant magelight and it helps against stamblades period. Ive been flared for some surprisingly high dps too. On stamina characters caltrops is good against aggressive nbs and makes the task of keeping em from stealth easier. Stamplars have an aoe dot too. Dks with venom attacks and sorcs with hurricane. Every class has a viable counter. Evil hunter is expensive but it works.

I wont say elusive is greater than cloak. I use both of them for different reasons and consider them equal.

However if i could cloak on any character of any class i would.

montjie

I find it funny people here always say cloak never works. Those NB's I come across on the battlefield must be very lucky SoB's then for cloak to fire almost everytime theyre close to dying.

Oh and NB's with Troll King....Thx for making that possible ZOS

This game...

Malic

Why not just send a message to Miat? Zos allows him to use an addon that tells you where people are in stealth.

That should solve your problem.

wolfwraith37

To everyone dismissing nightblades telling you that cloak has a good chance of being useless, if cloak didn't fire, how would you know? I'm honestly curious.

KingJ

Grumble_and_Grunt wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Fr why the hell are people crying that someone ran away from them you won they ran damn.

Who says Cloak is only used to run away? From a zerg, sure. Usually Cloak is used to maintain a constant upper hand and/or completely negate or recover from an enemy burst attempt.

My post didnt mention a zerg at all.I said why people cryingbecause someone ran away from them.If you are being chased by a zerg cloak will help you escape sometimes but a zerg will still find you they have access to cloak counters.In a 1v1 fight you use cloak as a main heal after being bursted by a more tanky class pretty much the only way we can heal.You also use it to repostion.Same when 1Vx you use to so you can actually heal when fighting outnumbered.

I assume most people's problem is the in and out playstyle NBs are playing with at the moment with proc sets, once that's been addressed and a NB realises he has to do more than cloak and ambush incap rinse and repeat there will be less threads like these and more Buff NBs they are grossly underpowered threads again by the many pugs of Cyrodiil.

Yes but people main issue with Nb is proc sets not NB but proc sets.Without proc sets NB is a weak class magic and stam in PVP.If you counter a NB cloak or it just bugs out you will kill a stamblade since he can't heal.Nb is still the only class where you pretty much have to be better than your enemy to have a chance to beat them.Nb a good class but when they nerf proc sets people will see where Nb really stand in pvp.

Zordrage

KingJ wrote: »

Grumble_and_Grunt wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Fr why the hell are people crying that someone ran away from them you won they ran damn.

Who says Cloak is only used to run away? From a zerg, sure. Usually Cloak is used to maintain a constant upper hand and/or completely negate or recover from an enemy burst attempt.

My post didnt mention a zerg at all.I said why people cryingbecause someone ran away from them.If you are being chased by a zerg cloak will help you escape sometimes but a zerg will still find you they have access to cloak counters.In a 1v1 fight you use cloak as a main heal after being bursted by a more tanky class pretty much the only way we can heal.You also use it to repostion.Same when 1Vx you use to so you can actually heal when fighting outnumbered.

I assume most people's problem is the in and out playstyle NBs are playing with at the moment with proc sets, once that's been addressed and a NB realises he has to do more than cloak and ambush incap rinse and repeat there will be less threads like these and more Buff NBs they are grossly underpowered threads again by the many pugs of Cyrodiil.

Yes but people main issue with Nb is proc sets not NB but proc sets.Without proc sets NB is a weak class magic and stam in PVP.If you counter a NB cloak or it just bugs out you will kill a stamblade since he can't heal.Nb is still the only class where you pretty much have to be better than your enemy to have a chance to beat them.Nb a good class but when they nerf proc sets people will see where Nb really stand in pvp.

then freaking do it allready...... oh wait devs are blind to the proc set issue and instead handicap everything else then fixing the OP proc sets....

Ragnaroek93

I changed my mind about cloak being overperforming. I have to stack so much regen (around 1,1k magicka regen, 2,6k-3k stamina regen and using tripots) to effectively cloak much. Stamblade in medium armor without spamming cloak is not viable, period. Good luck killing any good players with that much regen without using procsets or without having access to busted magicka sets like roflplasm. And good luck if you fight with less regen, have fun getting stomped then.

Is it annoying to fight against? Yes, it is. But fighting endless shieldstacking, permablockers and heavy armor facetank builds is also annoying as hell and has much less counterplay. So cloak is (from 1v1 perspective) totally fine as long as most other builds have so much overdefense as well.

Healing is super weak this patch, especially on nightblades. Dodgeroll right now is a joke as well with all the hard hitting abilities ignoring it. So stop comparing cloak with Streak, because Streak is more an escape skill than a defensive skill. If we give Hardened Ward and Dampen Magicka the Streak treatment then yes, we can talk again about cloak.

Zordrage

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Is it annoying to fight against? Yes, it is. But fighting endless shieldstacking, permablockers and heavy armor facetank builds is also annoying as hell and has much less counterplay. So cloak is (from 1v1 perspective) totally fine as long as most other builds have so much overdefense as well.

Permablocker heavy armor facetank builds wont gonna run arround with Glasscannon i delete you burst dmg..........

so its totaly not freaken fine to have that broken ability stay as it is....

Ragnaroek93

Zoliru wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Is it annoying to fight against? Yes, it is. But fighting endless shieldstacking, permablockers and heavy armor facetank builds is also annoying as hell and has much less counterplay. So cloak is (from 1v1 perspective) totally fine as long as most other builds have so much overdefense as well.

Permablocker heavy armor facetank builds wont gonna run arround with Glasscannon i delete you burst dmg..........

so its totaly not freaken fine to have that broken ability stay as it is....

Nightblades without proc sets won't run around with "I delete you burst dmg" builds because you need to sacrifice tons of damage for the regen to be able to roll and cloak a lot. Especially in no CP my nightblade feels like being complete garbage without procs (I wonder how many people who complain about nightblades have actually played them in this way), I have more fun with a freaking petsorc even tho my pets tend to stuck in every corner in a battleground.

KingJ

Zoliru wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Grumble_and_Grunt wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Fr why the hell are people crying that someone ran away from them you won they ran damn.

Who says Cloak is only used to run away? From a zerg, sure. Usually Cloak is used to maintain a constant upper hand and/or completely negate or recover from an enemy burst attempt.

My post didnt mention a zerg at all.I said why people cryingbecause someone ran away from them.If you are being chased by a zerg cloak will help you escape sometimes but a zerg will still find you they have access to cloak counters.In a 1v1 fight you use cloak as a main heal after being bursted by a more tanky class pretty much the only way we can heal.You also use it to repostion.Same when 1Vx you use to so you can actually heal when fighting outnumbered.

I assume most people's problem is the in and out playstyle NBs are playing with at the moment with proc sets, once that's been addressed and a NB realises he has to do more than cloak and ambush incap rinse and repeat there will be less threads like these and more Buff NBs they are grossly underpowered threads again by the many pugs of Cyrodiil.

Yes but people main issue with Nb is proc sets not NB but proc sets.Without proc sets NB is a weak class magic and stam in PVP.If you counter a NB cloak or it just bugs out you will kill a stamblade since he can't heal.Nb is still the only class where you pretty much have to be better than your enemy to have a chance to beat them.Nb a good class but when they nerf proc sets people will see where Nb really stand in pvp.

then freaking do it already...... oh wait devs are blind to the proc set issue and instead handicap everything else then fixing the OP proc sets....

Pretty muchh they have nerfed some monster sets and a few proc sets but not enough to make most people happy.Only proc sets I use is Blood Spawn and selenes.Selenes is very strong.