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Tremorscale and Selene are still overperforming
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All proc sets should go back to before homestead, and damage converted to damage over time.
10s coldown, 10s of damage that is cleansable, PVE don't feel the nerf, and it's not a one shot, but a pressure skill in PVP.
Unless of course the reason for not doing this is killing the performance of PVP areas?0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
There was a time when people had to choose between ransack and heroic. snare and more dmg vs cheaper and less dmg. Since tremor was introduced the choice is a no brainer. You get more dmg and a better snare than heroic (as if heroic snare wasnt broken already). Tremor needs its snare completely removed for starters and then maybe its proc chance may have to be addressed or give it a delay to create more counterplay. Its burst may not be like selene's but combined with la ransack bash its still a lot of burst from a tank that takes very little dmg. The whole point of tanks is to outlast people in long fights not bursting them down.Tremor is ridiculous... if you go full heavy armor and a sword and shield you should be a tank and not be able to do decent burst damage 50% of the time you use ransack.
There is people who shieldcharge in and spam ransack.. it actually works since okayish damage and that obnoxious snare comes with it.
Tremors isn't burst damage, you're talking about a proc that's going to hit for 2.5k to 3k damage.
It was only powerful when you combined it with multiple proc sets like viper or red mountain. Both of those took a hit this patch.
Tremors eating a damage nerf is just going to result in stormfist or sellatrix being used with heroic slash.Edited by pieratsos on July 24, 2017 10:18AM0 -
Zer0oo✭✭✭✭✭
✭The problem with proc sets is that they do so much burst damage and are free damage sources that don't scale with your stats. Just look at the tool tip of them and compare the damage they do to your ability tool tip in a pvp build and you see they hit for way too much.
Selene = 12k
Skoria = 9k
Tremorscale =6.5k
Viper = 6.4k
(The tool tip of cfrags of my full pve setup sorc in no cp is 11.5k)
- Update 23Ice Furnace: This item set now grants Spell Damage, rather than Weapon Damage for the 4 piece bonus0 -
SirSocke✭✭✭There is nothing really too complicated about this. Its very simple. The issue with selene and the proc sets in general is that they give very bad players like you, the ability to get kills that you wouldnt get under normal circumstances. It removes skill from the game and it destroys PVP by making it zergy and creates that stupid meta we have in every patch.
The fact that you admit that you need a proc set that has nothing to do with ur skill as a player to kill people that are already outnumbered highlights the problem those sets created.
What the hell? Now I'm a very bad player? Oh, and I proc already out numbered players to death? Really nice, man. But you haven't understood anything of what I've tried to say.
Bosmer stamina nightblade!0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭There is nothing really too complicated about this. Its very simple. The issue with selene and the proc sets in general is that they give very bad players like you, the ability to get kills that you wouldnt get under normal circumstances. It removes skill from the game and it destroys PVP by making it zergy and creates that stupid meta we have in every patch.
The fact that you admit that you need a proc set that has nothing to do with ur skill as a player to kill people that are already outnumbered highlights the problem those sets created.
What the hell? Now I'm a very bad player? Oh, and I proc already out numbered players to death? Really nice, man. But you haven't understood anything of what I've tried to say.
I perfectly understood what you have to say. You literally admitted that you use selene to kill 1vXers. The sad part is that people that get kills with procs think that its because they are good.6 -
akray21✭✭✭✭✭The game shouldn't be balanced around 1vX. Selene's is balanced outside of ganking and killing 1vXers. Yesterday I actually found more success using Pirate Skeleton on my NB as it gave me extra time to finish my kills and get out alive diving a low HP player amidst a mob of enemies.0
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GreenSoup2HoT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Anyone who said anything against SirThe problem with proc sets is that they do so much burst damage and are free damage sources that don't scale with your stats. Just look at the tool tip of them and compare the damage they do to your ability tool tip in a pvp build and you see they hit for way too much.
Selene = 12k
Skoria = 9k
Tremorscale =6.5k
Viper = 6.4k
(The tool tip of cfrags of my full pve setup sorc in no cp is 11.5k)
Better nerf cfrags
PS4 NA DC2 -
SirSocke✭✭✭I perfectly understood what you have to say. You literally admitted that you use selene to kill 1vXers. The sad part is that people that get kills with procs think that its because they are good.
Ok, last try: I've fought (and won) many fights without selene. But after failing against tankheals and shield stackers, I put on selene to get even more burst to kill them in the small time between cc'ing and break free.
Tone those immortals down and I will put off selene. But why I try to exlain? I don't think you want to understand.
Bosmer stamina nightblade!0 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I perfectly understood what you have to say. You literally admitted that you use selene to kill 1vXers. The sad part is that people that get kills with procs think that its because they are good.
Ok, last try: I've fought (and won) many fights without selene. But after failing against tankheals and shield stackers, I put on selene to get even more burst to kill them in the small time between cc'ing and break free.
Tone those immortals down and I will put off selene. But why I try to exlain? I don't think you want to understand.
Shieldstackers suck but there is only one or two builds that can shieldstack good enough to not being killed by one player and this build has extremely low damage they need ult+ curse + frags + wrath to actually kill a medium armor player. Healtanks are designed to heal and tank through more than one enemy but they have so low damage that you can completely ignore them.
Selene hardcounter almost any spec because of it's high burst, it may punish defensive specs somewhat but it totally wrecks more offensive or balanced builds and that is just too strong.
Just ignore the tanks and kill the squishy targets your zerg will take care of the tank in under a minute.1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I perfectly understood what you have to say. You literally admitted that you use selene to kill 1vXers. The sad part is that people that get kills with procs think that its because they are good.
Ok, last try: I've fought (and won) many fights without selene. But after failing against tankheals and shield stackers, I put on selene to get even more burst to kill them in the small time between cc'ing and break free.
Tone those immortals down and I will put off selene. But why I try to exlain? I don't think you want to understand.
And I dont think you understand the issue with sets that eliminate skill from the game and their consequences. But then again i didnt expect you to.1 -
Mojomonkeyman✭✭✭✭✭
✭I perfectly understood what you have to say. You literally admitted that you use selene to kill 1vXers. The sad part is that people that get kills with procs think that its because they are good.
Ok, last try: I've fought (and won) many fights without selene. But after failing against tankheals and shield stackers, I put on selene to get even more burst to kill them in the small time between cc'ing and break free.
Tone those immortals down and I will put off selene. But why I try to exlain? I don't think you want to understand.
People in here are doubting your ability to judge whether people are "immortal" or just "better than you". I have to admit, I do the same after reading your comments.
You would not be the person I want to discuss balance with, simply because your statements about "needing" crutches make me believe your level of play is not fully developed. And talking balance with anyone not being at the very top is naturally a waste of time. Not being at the top means by definition making more mistakes, making more mistakes means you don't even know how balance looks like when actually making no (or very little) mistakes while playing.
Automatically occuring damage, every 6 sec, higher than anything in your arsenal that has to be manually triggered, for no ressource cost - think about it. Doesn't that ring some very loud bells about skillful play? Do you really want to be that guy admitting weakness and inferiority by defending such sets?
Regards
Koma Grey, Chocolate Thunder, Little Mojo, Dagoth Mojo & Mojomancy5 -
paulsimonps✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I perfectly understood what you have to say. You literally admitted that you use selene to kill 1vXers. The sad part is that people that get kills with procs think that its because they are good.
Ok, last try: I've fought (and won) many fights without selene. But after failing against tankheals and shield stackers, I put on selene to get even more burst to kill them in the small time between cc'ing and break free.
Tone those immortals down and I will put off selene. But why I try to exlain? I don't think you want to understand.
Shieldstackers suck but there is only one or two builds that can shieldstack good enough to not being killed by one player and this build has extremely low damage they need ult+ curse + frags + wrath to actually kill a medium armor player. Healtanks are designed to heal and tank through more than one enemy but they have so low damage that you can completely ignore them.
Selene hardcounter almost any spec because of it's high burst, it may punish defensive specs somewhat but it totally wrecks more offensive or balanced builds and that is just too strong.
Just ignore the tanks and kill the squishy targets your zerg will take care of the tank in under a minute.
Shield stackers with something like Infernal Guardian can stay defensive and survive quite nicely against stamina until they get ultimate and can turn around and wreck you though. Magicka has always gotten a lot defensive bonuses out of their offensive stats, and can with no little issue out sustain selenes if done right.0 -
Zer0oo✭✭✭✭✭
✭In my pvp build for no cp both skoria(10k) and selene(12k) have a higher tooltip than my cfrag(9.5k).
Also Viper and Tremorscale are just a few k lower in damage but proc quite often(~4sec).
That is just free damage you can stack with other skills which gives you so much burst without any effort involved. It gets even more idiotic if you have more ppl on you with proc sets since the burst the sets do will almost one-shot you.
- Update 23Ice Furnace: This item set now grants Spell Damage, rather than Weapon Damage for the 4 piece bonus0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭paulsimonps wrote: »I perfectly understood what you have to say. You literally admitted that you use selene to kill 1vXers. The sad part is that people that get kills with procs think that its because they are good.
Ok, last try: I've fought (and won) many fights without selene. But after failing against tankheals and shield stackers, I put on selene to get even more burst to kill them in the small time between cc'ing and break free.
Tone those immortals down and I will put off selene. But why I try to exlain? I don't think you want to understand.
Shieldstackers suck but there is only one or two builds that can shieldstack good enough to not being killed by one player and this build has extremely low damage they need ult+ curse + frags + wrath to actually kill a medium armor player. Healtanks are designed to heal and tank through more than one enemy but they have so low damage that you can completely ignore them.
Selene hardcounter almost any spec because of it's high burst, it may punish defensive specs somewhat but it totally wrecks more offensive or balanced builds and that is just too strong.
Just ignore the tanks and kill the squishy targets your zerg will take care of the tank in under a minute.
Shield stackers with something like Infernal Guardian can stay defensive and survive quite nicely against stamina until they get ultimate and can turn around and wreck you though. Magicka has always gotten a lot defensive bonuses out of their offensive stats, and can with no little issue out sustain selenes if done right.
Shieldstacking is broken. Fix shieldstacking. Stop excusing broken sh*t because shieldstacking is broken too.
1 -
Dr.NRG✭✭✭✭Tremor gotta go or be reworked all together in my opinion. This set is very annoying to other players and almost always creates an unfair advantage.
When you duell someone who has beaten you serveral times and ask him to take the set off, all of the sudden they cant do anything to you any,ore and die super easily. This happens A LOT and thus shows what a big of an impact this set has and why it needs to go!
.0 -
Vercingetorix✭✭✭✭✭
✭leepalmer95 wrote: »GeorgeBlack wrote: »GeorgeBlack wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Hi everyone,
We wanted to let you know that we have read your feedback about the Selene and Tremorscale item sets. We are still evaluating item sets on the PTS, including these two, so please continue to share your testing experiences with them.
Get any class and test it against a Valkyn Skoria magika DK tank/nuker and work with the results.
Get any class and test against a Valkyn Skoria magika Templar tank as well.
Observe easy and massive damage dealt by unkillable tanks. Examine Valkyn Skoria again.
Every class is balanced (except magsorc). These monster sets ruin the balance. Selene Tremor and Skoria need to be toned down.
Skoria is balanced and fine. Tremor and selenes are another story.
And yea, shuffle is balanced as well
How is skoria balanced? It provides frequent burst dmg to tanky dot builds. They get the missing element.
How is it balanced when it covers everything?
When something is BiS it IS NOT balanced. Same with shuffle.
Skoria is fine because it you need to apply dots and therefore sacrificing burst damage (which skoria is suppose to give you some). Ppl qq because it´s strong in nocp and battle grounds but so are most monster sets.
When something is BiS it IS NOT balanced
LMAO that logic
Your not sacrificing anything.
All dk's use embers for the heal (has a dot)
Most dk's use talons for the locking someone down (has a dot)
Easy to proc the burning effect... its a dot.
Breath to boost overall damage and apply a dot
Most ults have a dot
Not sure if inhale still counts as a dot
Double dot poisons
Use volatile armor for defence and healing, its a dot
What exactly do they give up?
Mag templars use vamps bane to proc effect, apply pressure and give themselves 10% crit.
Sweeps is their main spam skill, its a dot
Radiant is their execute its a dot
There ults are dots, DB/ soul assault/ etc...
Shards is a dot
What exactly do people give up?
Templars have CHANNELS - that is, they can't do a damn thing once their channeled dots begin. They are interruptible (except for Assault, which is NOT class specific) and are susceptible to 1vX moreso than other classes due to the single-target nature of their attacks. Giving up AoE for stronger single target is what Templars do, along with their "spammable" being melee range.
Also, WTF uses Shards in PvP? You literally tried to list as many unrelated dots as possible in an attempt to keep your poorly constructed argument together, lol.
Dragonknights operate in melee range almost exclusively. You can play from range and they become a non-issue. Skoria was designed for a class like DK which lacks an execute and reliable burst. DKs that use Skoria allow that proc to be their form of an "execute" or the little burst needed to beat opponents with their dots. DKs give up RANGE. Skoria hits from range, but if a DK isn't nearby, then that burst is wasted.
Sounds like this guy just sucks at PvP and needs to learn "Counterplay 101". If you are fighting melee-oriented players, try not standing next to them, lol.“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”2 -
actosh✭✭✭✭✭The problem with proc sets is that they do so much burst damage and are free damage sources that don't scale with your stats. Just look at the tool tip of them and compare the damage they do to your ability tool tip in a pvp build and you see they hit for way too much.
Selene = 12k
Skoria = 9k
Tremorscale =6.5k
Viper = 6.4k
(The tool tip of cfrags of my full pve setup sorc in no cp is 11.5k)
U forgot to add the aoe dmg of skoria.
Thats why zos thinks skoria and selene are even.0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Vercingetorix wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »GeorgeBlack wrote: »GeorgeBlack wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Hi everyone,
We wanted to let you know that we have read your feedback about the Selene and Tremorscale item sets. We are still evaluating item sets on the PTS, including these two, so please continue to share your testing experiences with them.
Get any class and test it against a Valkyn Skoria magika DK tank/nuker and work with the results.
Get any class and test against a Valkyn Skoria magika Templar tank as well.
Observe easy and massive damage dealt by unkillable tanks. Examine Valkyn Skoria again.
Every class is balanced (except magsorc). These monster sets ruin the balance. Selene Tremor and Skoria need to be toned down.
Skoria is balanced and fine. Tremor and selenes are another story.
And yea, shuffle is balanced as well
How is skoria balanced? It provides frequent burst dmg to tanky dot builds. They get the missing element.
How is it balanced when it covers everything?
When something is BiS it IS NOT balanced. Same with shuffle.
Skoria is fine because it you need to apply dots and therefore sacrificing burst damage (which skoria is suppose to give you some). Ppl qq because it´s strong in nocp and battle grounds but so are most monster sets.
When something is BiS it IS NOT balanced
LMAO that logic
Your not sacrificing anything.
All dk's use embers for the heal (has a dot)
Most dk's use talons for the locking someone down (has a dot)
Easy to proc the burning effect... its a dot.
Breath to boost overall damage and apply a dot
Most ults have a dot
Not sure if inhale still counts as a dot
Double dot poisons
Use volatile armor for defence and healing, its a dot
What exactly do they give up?
Mag templars use vamps bane to proc effect, apply pressure and give themselves 10% crit.
Sweeps is their main spam skill, its a dot
Radiant is their execute its a dot
There ults are dots, DB/ soul assault/ etc...
Shards is a dot
What exactly do people give up?
Templars have CHANNELS - that is, they can't do a damn thing once their channeled dots begin. They are interruptible (except for Assault, which is NOT class specific) and are susceptible to 1vX moreso than other classes due to the single-target nature of their attacks. Giving up AoE for stronger single target is what Templars do, along with their "spammable" being melee range.
Also, WTF uses Shards in PvP? You literally tried to list as many unrelated dots as possible in an attempt to keep your poorly constructed argument together, lol.
Dragonknights operate in melee range almost exclusively. You can play from range and they become a non-issue. Skoria was designed for a class like DK which lacks an execute and reliable burst. DKs that use Skoria allow that proc to be their form of an "execute" or the little burst needed to beat opponents with their dots. DKs give up RANGE. Skoria hits from range, but if a DK isn't nearby, then that burst is wasted.
Sounds like this guy just sucks at PvP and needs to learn "Counterplay 101". If you are fighting melee-oriented players, try not standing next to them, lol.
Skoria needs to perform like meteor. A telegraph in ur feet and after a few second it lands and it should be dodgeable. Maybe even reflectable (after all reflect isnt a very accessible defence unless u are a DK). This is going to seperate good players from bad players. A good player is gonna time CC and other abilities to make sure it lands and get a burst. Sort of like meteor is used. A bad player wont do that and its going to be easy to counter it. This means player skill is going to be a factor on how effective the set is. Thats how all proc sets should operate.0 -
SirSocke✭✭✭Ok, I give up. I said something against the magicka-masterrace and got wrecked.
Hope I see some of you on battlegrounds or in cyrodiil. Then I will show you what a noob (or scrub or idiot or bad player) I am... Bosmer stamina nightblade!0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I perfectly understood what you have to say. You literally admitted that you use selene to kill 1vXers. The sad part is that people that get kills with procs think that its because they are good.
Ok, last try: I've fought (and won) many fights without selene. But after failing against tankheals and shield stackers, I put on selene to get even more burst to kill them in the small time between cc'ing and break free.
Tone those immortals down and I will put off selene. But why I try to exlain? I don't think you want to understand.
Somehow I think people would not put off their Selene and just go on a rampage even more. And if shield stacking so bothers you, either invest into Shattering Blows (yes how inconvenient) or try to lobby for some Bastion changes. Shield stacking, if a problem, is only one with CP.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
BNOC✭✭✭✭✭U forgot to add the aoe dmg of skoria.
Thats why zos thinks skoria and selene are even.
Ok, that is redundant.
If you wanted to do serious AoE damage, you'd run Grothdarr or something else.
Selene is damage on one person and people aren't running Skoria for AoE damage, they're running it for ST burst.
Skoria is on a 5s CD, Selene, 4. So for every 20 second fight you could have 5 Selenes and 4 Skoria procs.
Even if you included the 4k splash damage and made that a 13k (total damage) proc then it would be doing less over time, it's less direct and if you've got dots on anyone else, you don't actually know where it's going to go.
Selene is much more powerful than Skoria.
vMSA - Magplar - Xbox EU - 15/11/16
578,000 - 36 Minutes 58 Seconds (Top 2 World?)
vMSA - Magplar - Xbox NA
569,000 - 40 minutes (350CP, Non optimised runs)1 -
akray21✭✭✭✭✭U forgot to add the aoe dmg of skoria.
Thats why zos thinks skoria and selene are even.
Ok, that is redundant.
If you wanted to do serious AoE damage, you'd run Grothdarr or something else.
Selene is damage on one person and people aren't running Skoria for AoE damage, they're running it for ST burst.
Skoria is on a 5s CD, Selene, 4. So for every 20 second fight you could have 5 Selenes and 4 Skoria procs.
Even if you included the 4k splash damage and made that a 13k (total damage) proc then it would be doing less over time, it's less direct and if you've got dots on anyone else, you don't actually know where it's going to go.
Selene is much more powerful than Skoria.
If you are looking at the raw damage potential, then yeah Selene's is better. But Skoria can be proced at range, it's easier to apply and stack dots than weave melee damage at close range, and you can wait till it hits to complete a combo while with Selene's you start the combo and hope that RNG procs the bear for you. I think both sets are fine as is until the meta gets away from heavy armor impen.0 -
Zer0oo✭✭✭✭✭
✭U forgot to add the aoe dmg of skoria.
Thats why zos thinks skoria and selene are even.
Ok, that is redundant.
If you wanted to do serious AoE damage, you'd run Grothdarr or something else.
Selene is damage on one person and people aren't running Skoria for AoE damage, they're running it for ST burst.
Skoria is on a 5s CD, Selene, 4. So for every 20 second fight you could have 5 Selenes and 4 Skoria procs.
Even if you included the 4k splash damage and made that a 13k (total damage) proc then it would be doing less over time, it's less direct and if you've got dots on anyone else, you don't actually know where it's going to go.
Selene is much more powerful than Skoria.
If you are looking at the raw damage potential, then yeah Selene's is better. But Skoria can be proced at range, it's easier to apply and stack dots than weave melee damage at close range, and you can wait till it hits to complete a combo while with Selene's you start the combo and hope that RNG procs the bear for you. I think both sets are fine as is until the meta gets away from heavy armor impen.
Also skoria can be buffed quite alot by 7% racial passives, 10% Engulfing Flames and it hits 25% harder against vampire.
Almost all proc sets are way too powerful in pvp, but the balance is already so bad so who cares...
- Update 23Ice Furnace: This item set now grants Spell Damage, rather than Weapon Damage for the 4 piece bonus0 -
SanTii.92✭✭✭✭✭
✭This thread still going on? LolWhen the snows fall and the white winds blow,
the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives.
Arg | Pc Na | Factionless Mag Warden.0 -
Azurya✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nerf, we need an NERF, here a NERF again and there a NERF
Please ZOS NERF all
- abilities
- skills
- championpoints
- mundusstones
- traits
- classes
- racials
- and everything I may have forgotten!
PLEASE ZOS NERF ALL THIS NOW!!!0 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This thread still going on? Lol
why shouldn't it? The Problem is still in the game, why stop fighting if you haven't lost yet?
All 3 sets are overperforming and all Arguments were brought to the table with number and so on. Every post that is added shows that the problem is real with these sets
Edited by BohnT on July 25, 2017 2:13PM0