PLEASE DONT BUFF the *** out of MagWardens.

Kay1 · July 2017

Cardhwion wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Balancing should be done in the following order: balance for noCP PvP, then balance the CP system so that it's balanced in CP PvP, then balance PvE around that. ZOS just doesn't want to do that effort.

I'd rather say: balance PVE first, and PVP as a distant second. The majority of this game is PVE.

The majority of noobs and casuals you mean, the majority of veterans and max levels only do PvP, that's how it works in every single MMO, trials and PvP.

Reverb · July 2017

Wardens really do need some DPS buffs, but not defensive ones. And Cliff Racer needs to be dodgeable. These things are not mutually exclusive.

Kay1 · July 2017

Morbash wrote: »

Buff cliff racer! Needs moar damage and less counters. Make it unblockable, apply a 200% healing debuff for 10 seconds with a 5 second CD, and apply a 200% snare. Your opponents will now moonwalk while killing themselves with self heals.

Because screw solo players. All hail the mighty Zerg!

#balancebywrobel

I feel your solo player tears brother, when you have 4 guys on you and you think well its alright I'm gonna spread them and then you die and you see 5 Cliff Racer for 4-6k in your recap

Drachenfier · July 2017

All I know is, this constant cliff racer spam in pvp that can't be dodged or reflected is getting really old.

seedubsrun · July 2017

Kay1 wrote: »

Cardhwion wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Balancing should be done in the following order: balance for noCP PvP, then balance the CP system so that it's balanced in CP PvP, then balance PvE around that. ZOS just doesn't want to do that effort.

I'd rather say: balance PVE first, and PVP as a distant second. The majority of this game is PVE.

The majority of noobs and casuals you mean, the majority of veterans and max levels only do PvP, that's how it works in every single MMO, trials and PvP.

He didn't say the majority of players play PvE. He said the majority of the content is PvE which is true. Also the majority of future content will likely also be PvE. So it needs priority in balance. really though they just need to separate the two and balance them at the same time. It's getting ridiculous

Caligamy_ESO · July 2017

So.. just buff them without giving more burst..? Leave the cliff racers and scorches alone, buff the dots.

The dot damage on Warden is really underwhelming and imo there's no monster helms that really synergize with magicka Warden at all either. There's basically 4 good dps choices atm. Two of them make you stand in close to the target which makes the lackluster cliff racer even worse (because it does 15% more dmg from long distances) one requires you to flame/lightning staff which literally any class in the game could do to the exact same effect.. boring, and then there's Valkyn trying to make up for some dps by proc'ing off really weak almost not worth casting dots.

What this really just goes to show though is that they need to stop trying to balance PVP and PVE like its the same beast. It's not, it is not even close, and it never will be. Continuously trying to do so just creates this weird animosity between the two player bases because we constantly get nerfed and buffed for the others content, and then blame each other for it.

STEVIL · July 2017

mandricus wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Again, this is not only a PvP game. Classes need to be balanced for PvE and PvP. Warden DPS is completely useless in PvE right now,. They also get outperformed as a tank and healer by DK and templar.

There are ways to balance the class for both modes. ZOS has just failed at it.

I agree. It is not a PvP only game, and it is not a PvE only game. Balancing a class for both worlds it really is a complex task.
I'm just saying that, buffing Wardens for PvE, without considering PvP impacts, would probably lead to buffing a class that PvP-wise is already OP.

This is proably the same reason why Sorcs are so much overpowered in PvE, being a "no brainer" choice for anyone being a DD interested in end-game PvE. The gap between a magsorc with Necropotence / Ilambris / Moondanced and any other spec / class in terms on ease of use (both rotation-wise, one of the easiest amongst all spec/classes, and in terms of survailabilty, given the 20k shields that Sorcs are able to cast on themselves almost all the time) and the DPS that you might be able to pull at the same time, it's just ridiculous.

On the other hand, they are not so much overpowered in PvP. A flat nerf to them would probably lead to a class in line with others PvE-Wise, but too weak PvP-wise.

clearly this cant be true. i just left threads in the PTs section where "experts" are saying how great stamina is at arena/trial/dungeon DPS not even close anyone else with the great dw healing to boot.

:-)

seedubsrun · July 2017

STEVIL wrote: »

mandricus wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Again, this is not only a PvP game. Classes need to be balanced for PvE and PvP. Warden DPS is completely useless in PvE right now,. They also get outperformed as a tank and healer by DK and templar.

There are ways to balance the class for both modes. ZOS has just failed at it.

I agree. It is not a PvP only game, and it is not a PvE only game. Balancing a class for both worlds it really is a complex task.
I'm just saying that, buffing Wardens for PvE, without considering PvP impacts, would probably lead to buffing a class that PvP-wise is already OP.

This is proably the same reason why Sorcs are so much overpowered in PvE, being a "no brainer" choice for anyone being a DD interested in end-game PvE. The gap between a magsorc with Necropotence / Ilambris / Moondanced and any other spec / class in terms on ease of use (both rotation-wise, one of the easiest amongst all spec/classes, and in terms of survailabilty, given the 20k shields that Sorcs are able to cast on themselves almost all the time) and the DPS that you might be able to pull at the same time, it's just ridiculous.

On the other hand, they are not so much overpowered in PvP. A flat nerf to them would probably lead to a class in line with others PvE-Wise, but too weak PvP-wise.

clearly this cant be true. i just left threads in the PTs section where "experts" are saying how great stamina is at arena/trial/dungeon DPS not even close anyone else with the great dw healing to boot.

:-)

This is true. While magsorcs are still really great, they're being out parsed by stam for sure. Getting bored with the endless calls for sorc nerfs. They're not needed. If anything magsorcs should be the template for buffing other mag classes especially the warden. Sure the sorc has really strong abilities but more so they have a lot of versatility and their passives are quality and work great with their skills. Wardens passives are junk and most are totally useless depending on your build.

STEVIL · July 2017

To my way of thinking, the timing, delays and positioning aspects of the warden class were intentionally built in as "the warden thing" based on comments from the devs during the run up. Expecting those to go away is IMO folly.

Also, since most every major attack from the warden does healing as a side effect due to the passives, that makes every one of their major class offense powers (the beast tree) a split attack/heal and you will never get it to the point that those get you as much damage as "regular" attack powers that just do damage - yeah templar sweeps is an exception but it brings chennel and melee range with it.

Also, part of the group/trial PVE issue is that a lot of the warden's utilities have the whole range of standard buffs - crits of both types, major brute/sorc, minor prot, minor berserk - which while great for solo-endeavors including pvp are redundant in PVE group trial. that means you have yet another set of abilities that are mostly useless or redundant in PVE g/t play as DPS.

So, in situations where self-healing is not that much important and where self-buffing is not that important (g/t PVE DPS role) a lot of the gains from trade-offs for the warden go out the window.

The key point i am making is the class is not inherently built to be exceptional as a DPS in those cases. its wonderful as a solo and as some have said does do what it needs in PVP - basically any case when you have to rely on yourself and not others.

but it brings nothing special to the g/t table except good healing (competitive healing I suppose.)

For me since that is baked into practically every skill line the warden has, i do not see any easy fix to this g/t issue that does not have a serious chance to overpower the solo/pvp side of things.

Unless you start throwing in a slayer type boss-only damage bonus, which again can be gained by sets so..., i dont see much options that wont kill the warden's other strengths while raising DPS and remain balanced.

But it remains a multi-function tool of a class while the g/t pve dps role is a single function role moreso than say tank or healer are so i doubt you can reach close to parity without a lot of flavor and uniqueness lost (or OP in multi-role situations.)

Then again, i am not that upset with the idea of a class that cannot get to top levels in a single g/t pve role but is doing well in all the other areas.

SanTii.92 · July 2017

Thogard wrote: »

It's too late. We already know its going to happen.

You will never be able to get away from their cliff races, and you wont be able to DPS them through their dmg shield and their ult that they'll cast every 8s.

Still triggered uh xd

Just gonna say that the healing ult is buggrd currently. It's always restoring 20 ult regardless hp values. So there is that.

OdinForge · July 2017

I don't know about PvE but in PvP Warden's are just silly, they definitely do not need buffs. They also happen to be the perfect zerg class, very tanky with strong healing and very strong burst potential. Being that you can sit safely in a group and spam a high tooltip bird on one person.

If they want to keep it so that you can't dodge bird, then you shouldn't be able to spam cast it and it should come on a longer delay. So that you're forced to line it up with subterranean assault and another skill or ultimate for burst. Otherwise it's just two Warden's in a zerg spamming bird on people, and even if they go behind LOS they probably still have a bird or two queued up on them.

Poorly designed class is poorly designed, regardless if it's OP or bad.

humpalicous · July 2017

Sarato wrote: »

Title says it all. Any supporters or objections?

Well the Warden is crap when it comes to PvE dps, so why shouldn't they receive a buff? Please don't let PvP interfere with PvE again...

It's slow, badly coordinated and lacks raw damage to be truly competitive in a dps environment.

josiahva · July 2017

What warden needs is a complete skill line re-work. The stupid delayed abilities and long animations are just terrible. THAT is where the poor DPS stems from. I also hate the animal companions skill line, the only skill I use from that line is the betty netch, the rest is pure garbage.

I finally finished levelling my warden to lvl50 a couple days ago. I started the build knowing that the DPS was terrible, so I focused on building a tank/healer hybrid using an ice staff. I have to say as a support build in that combination its great...I can heal a group of 3 DPS just fine while tanking. I ended up with 25k health/ 27k magicka/ 12k stamina in purple gear with 2400 magicka regen in 5/5/1 using Seducers/Alteration Mastery/Random monster helm(I think I chose nerieneth because it was in the bank and gave a 1 piece health bonus). The biggest problem with the setup is that with an ice staff, my only source of major breach and major fracture is the much hated shalk ability, and to add insult to injury, it requires the stamina morph...which is terrible for an ice staff tank. I dont mind using my stamina pool for things(the stamina morph of inner fire is better for this build) but by forcing me to use a stamina morph, that means I cant just swap gear to DPS, because it makes one of my DPS skills worthless. Right now I am trying to compensate by leaving it as the magicka morph, using elemental drain for breach, and using a crusher enchant on the ice staff.

Anyway, the whole point is that the skill line is poorly thought out, not optimized for DPS, not optimized for tanking(especially not ice-staff tanking which is bizarre considering warden is the class best suited to take advantage of ice staves) and really not even optimized for healing because as any healer knows, when someone needs heals, they need it NOW, not 2 seconds later after a long animation or 4 seconds later with a delayed heal with the only way to speed it being a synergy(most of the healing skills I use off healing are from the resto-staff line for exactly this reason). I feel they need to drop the fancy animations to much shorter versions and get rid of the delayed gameplay. Until they do that, warden will never be first choice for anything.

On another note: Frozen Gate: this is a good skill, but SLOW compared to DKs chains...the stupid animation being slow and having to place it on the ground caused all kinds of slowness tanking blackheart haven HM yesterday, I spent literally ALL my time gating ads in, didnt have time to hold taunt constantly or off heal consistently. They need to change this skill to NOT be an AOE trap and to be INSTANT cast, just like chains for DK.

Drachenfier · July 2017

seedubsrun wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

mandricus wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Again, this is not only a PvP game. Classes need to be balanced for PvE and PvP. Warden DPS is completely useless in PvE right now,. They also get outperformed as a tank and healer by DK and templar.

There are ways to balance the class for both modes. ZOS has just failed at it.

I agree. It is not a PvP only game, and it is not a PvE only game. Balancing a class for both worlds it really is a complex task.
I'm just saying that, buffing Wardens for PvE, without considering PvP impacts, would probably lead to buffing a class that PvP-wise is already OP.

This is proably the same reason why Sorcs are so much overpowered in PvE, being a "no brainer" choice for anyone being a DD interested in end-game PvE. The gap between a magsorc with Necropotence / Ilambris / Moondanced and any other spec / class in terms on ease of use (both rotation-wise, one of the easiest amongst all spec/classes, and in terms of survailabilty, given the 20k shields that Sorcs are able to cast on themselves almost all the time) and the DPS that you might be able to pull at the same time, it's just ridiculous.

On the other hand, they are not so much overpowered in PvP. A flat nerf to them would probably lead to a class in line with others PvE-Wise, but too weak PvP-wise.

clearly this cant be true. i just left threads in the PTs section where "experts" are saying how great stamina is at arena/trial/dungeon DPS not even close anyone else with the great dw healing to boot.

:-)

This is true. While magsorcs are still really great, they're being out parsed by stam for sure. Getting bored with the endless calls for sorc nerfs. They're not needed. If anything magsorcs should be the template for buffing other mag classes especially the warden. Sure the sorc has really strong abilities but more so they have a lot of versatility and their passives are quality and work great with their skills. Wardens passives are junk and most are totally useless depending on your build.

I dunno, in Kyne last night I got two shot by a sorc...a 10k and a 9k overload light attack. Seems excessive.

notimetocare · July 2017

seedubsrun wrote: »

The Warden is the perfect example of the need to balance PvP and PvE separately. Amazing in one instance and junk in the other. Really though they need to, first, fix the bugs with the class, then, adjust the passives so they're actually useful and helpful, finally, adjust the skills themselves. Only 6 of the 18 class skills do any attack damage with a couple others offering mild nothing damage. The lack of an execute should change. A fletcher morph could easily fill that role. There should be more damage use from the ice skill line too. The burst damage skills are fine. There just needs to be more options.

Wont happen. Its not simple to balance separate, and its not worth it.

Ice is a tank specific tree. You really want more unkillable pvp tanks, that is what you are asking for

Toc de Malsvi · July 2017

Skjoldur wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

If this makes them too strong in PvP, just make cliff racer dodgeable. Simple.

That would not work due to the delayed damage. A 1-2 second warning to dodge would make it unusable in PvP.

This is a massive fallacy. It a player is using stamina to dodge your instant cast spammable EVERY time then you will win EVERY time because that is completely unsustainable.

This is why Snipe is even usable in PVP, because players cannot afford to constantly dodge. Every dodge used to dodge dive is a pretty big stam loss, Dive can be cast every second, while dodge has a stacking cost increase if you use it more than once every 4 seconds. To add to that, dive is cheaper and comes with a small heal and ultimate return.

A dodgeable dive only means that you cannot AUTO-win vs medium armor if you catch them in the open. They simply cannot afford to dodge every dive.

SanTii.92 · July 2017

About them being Op I just don't think that is the case. Issue is that since decent wardens are so far in between people aren't giving the properly respect.

Fighting a warden should be treated like fighting a sorc, where the frags are the deep fissures, only that the are way easier to block since they are too telegraphed. Block fissures = instant win.

Congrats, you have learnt how to beat wardens. now you are just fighting a lesser msorc, with weaker wards, and less mobility which exposed them so hard to roots and snares.

seedubsrun · July 2017

Drachenfier wrote: »

seedubsrun wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

mandricus wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Again, this is not only a PvP game. Classes need to be balanced for PvE and PvP. Warden DPS is completely useless in PvE right now,. They also get outperformed as a tank and healer by DK and templar.

There are ways to balance the class for both modes. ZOS has just failed at it.

I agree. It is not a PvP only game, and it is not a PvE only game. Balancing a class for both worlds it really is a complex task.
I'm just saying that, buffing Wardens for PvE, without considering PvP impacts, would probably lead to buffing a class that PvP-wise is already OP.

This is proably the same reason why Sorcs are so much overpowered in PvE, being a "no brainer" choice for anyone being a DD interested in end-game PvE. The gap between a magsorc with Necropotence / Ilambris / Moondanced and any other spec / class in terms on ease of use (both rotation-wise, one of the easiest amongst all spec/classes, and in terms of survailabilty, given the 20k shields that Sorcs are able to cast on themselves almost all the time) and the DPS that you might be able to pull at the same time, it's just ridiculous.

On the other hand, they are not so much overpowered in PvP. A flat nerf to them would probably lead to a class in line with others PvE-Wise, but too weak PvP-wise.

clearly this cant be true. i just left threads in the PTs section where "experts" are saying how great stamina is at arena/trial/dungeon DPS not even close anyone else with the great dw healing to boot.

:-)

This is true. While magsorcs are still really great, they're being out parsed by stam for sure. Getting bored with the endless calls for sorc nerfs. They're not needed. If anything magsorcs should be the template for buffing other mag classes especially the warden. Sure the sorc has really strong abilities but more so they have a lot of versatility and their passives are quality and work great with their skills. Wardens passives are junk and most are totally useless depending on your build.

I dunno, in Kyne last night I got two shot by a sorc...a 10k and a 9k overload light attack. Seems excessive.

You got killed by an ultimate? The strongest ability in a skill line kind of ultimate? Sorry to hear that. It's clearly excessive to be killed by an ability that's supposed to be strong enough to kill.

SanTii.92 · July 2017

Anyone furious about class balance have no understanding whatsoever about current state of the game. The classes are be close currently with the only glaring exception being mwarden, and to a lesser extent mtemplar dps. All the other 8 classes can compete with each other as dpses, as they are for pvp.

[Edited to remove quote]

Comfortably_Buzzed · July 2017

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

All I see is wardens are quite tanky, have tremendous burst damage and insane healing - the class seems a bit too strong in PVP.

I don't understand how they could be bad in PVE, somebody explain? They should be right up there close to templars as a healer, if not better in some ways.

PvE requires high sustained DPS where as PvP tends to require high burst damage. There are other factors at play but this is a big part of the reason Warden's PvE damage is mediocre but in PvP they're a threat.

josiahva · July 2017

notimetocare wrote: »

seedubsrun wrote: »

The Warden is the perfect example of the need to balance PvP and PvE separately. Amazing in one instance and junk in the other. Really though they need to, first, fix the bugs with the class, then, adjust the passives so they're actually useful and helpful, finally, adjust the skills themselves. Only 6 of the 18 class skills do any attack damage with a couple others offering mild nothing damage. The lack of an execute should change. A fletcher morph could easily fill that role. There should be more damage use from the ice skill line too. The burst damage skills are fine. There just needs to be more options.

Wont happen. Its not simple to balance separate, and its not worth it.

Ice is a tank specific tree. You really want more unkillable pvp tanks, that is what you are asking for

This is exactly the problem. Warden has an ice damage buff...but no ice damage skills to take advantage of said buff. Its like giving a DK a flame damage buff, then making the ardent flame tree a tanking line instead of DPS and leaving cinder-cloud as the only dmg spell. This forces you are an ice-damage focused warden to use just a whole 2 class skills for ice damage(both of which are AoE only)...any other ice or frost damage has to come from destro staff line and ice-comet morph of meteor.

The one and ONLY skill they got 100% correct on warden is the Ice storm ult. Its a great ult. The healing ult isnt bad either, but the bear is a terrible ult, absolutely worthless for a magicka build.

StormWylf · July 2017

Kay1 wrote: »

Cardhwion wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Balancing should be done in the following order: balance for noCP PvP, then balance the CP system so that it's balanced in CP PvP, then balance PvE around that. ZOS just doesn't want to do that effort.

I'd rather say: balance PVE first, and PVP as a distant second. The majority of this game is PVE.

The majority of noobs and casuals you mean, the majority of veterans and max levels only do PvP, that's how it works in every single MMO, trials and PvP.

I respectfully disagree there is a substantial number veterans and max levels that only do PvE, also there is a large number of players who do both.

What I will agree with is that "in every single MMO," that has both PvE and PvP, balancing classes is a neverending problem, and I submit that there will never be a solution that makes everyone happy.

josiahva · July 2017

StormWylf wrote: »

Kay1 wrote: »

Cardhwion wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Balancing should be done in the following order: balance for noCP PvP, then balance the CP system so that it's balanced in CP PvP, then balance PvE around that. ZOS just doesn't want to do that effort.

I'd rather say: balance PVE first, and PVP as a distant second. The majority of this game is PVE.

The majority of noobs and casuals you mean, the majority of veterans and max levels only do PvP, that's how it works in every single MMO, trials and PvP.

I respectfully disagree there is a substantial number veterans and max levels that only do PvE, also there is a large number of players who do both.

What I will agree with is that "in every single MMO," that has both PvE and PvP, balancing classes is a neverending problem, and I submit that there will never be a solution that makes everyone happy.

There is actually a simple solution to this, but not one they will ever implement: Have entirely different skill lines and gear for PvP(I mean, thats essentially how it is anyway, I dont go into PvP with my PvE gear and skill setup anyway...to do so is asking for near insta-death), PvE skills and gear cant be used in PvP and vice versa. Voila! Balance achieved if you combine it with no CP allowed in PvP. To do that though, they would need to put significant effort into their game.

seedubsrun · July 2017

notimetocare wrote: »

seedubsrun wrote: »

The Warden is the perfect example of the need to balance PvP and PvE separately. Amazing in one instance and junk in the other. Really though they need to, first, fix the bugs with the class, then, adjust the passives so they're actually useful and helpful, finally, adjust the skills themselves. Only 6 of the 18 class skills do any attack damage with a couple others offering mild nothing damage. The lack of an execute should change. A fletcher morph could easily fill that role. There should be more damage use from the ice skill line too. The burst damage skills are fine. There just needs to be more options.

Wont happen. Its not simple to balance separate, and its not worth it.

Ice is a tank specific tree. You really want more unkillable pvp tanks, that is what you are asking for

It's absolutely worth balancing the two separately. Almost every single time "balances" occur it benefits either PvE or PvP and hurts the other. Not only does that just shift the imbalance instead of fix it but it just turns the communities against each other. Things like Battle Spirit and gear sets that only effect enemy players are already a lean towards separately balancing the two. Expanding on that wouldn't be all that crazy.

Ice shouldn't be a tank specific tree. It should offer the ability to use it for tanking but right now you can easily stam Warden, tank warden, and healer warden but you can't really magicka DPS warden. It's the only class that doesn't have viable mag DPS. It's also the only class that has viable frost damage potential. The fact that it has passives that boost frost and magic damage suggest that it should have DPS uses but it frankly doesn't right now. That's due to passives sucking but also due to lack of damage abilities. You could easily have one frost morph be for tanking and one for DPS.

timidobserver · July 2017

I did a trial on my MagWarden as a DD the other day. It is complete garbage. It needs some help in that area. They just need to do it in a way that doesn't break PvP.

SanTii.92 · July 2017

josiahva wrote: »

StormWylf wrote: »

Kay1 wrote: »

Cardhwion wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Balancing should be done in the following order: balance for noCP PvP, then balance the CP system so that it's balanced in CP PvP, then balance PvE around that. ZOS just doesn't want to do that effort.

I'd rather say: balance PVE first, and PVP as a distant second. The majority of this game is PVE.

The majority of noobs and casuals you mean, the majority of veterans and max levels only do PvP, that's how it works in every single MMO, trials and PvP.

I respectfully disagree there is a substantial number veterans and max levels that only do PvE, also there is a large number of players who do both.

What I will agree with is that "in every single MMO," that has both PvE and PvP, balancing classes is a neverending problem, and I submit that there will never be a solution that makes everyone happy.

There is actually a simple solution to this, but not one they will ever implement: Have entirely different skill lines and gear for PvP(I mean, thats essentially how it is anyway, I dont go into PvP with my PvE gear and skill setup anyway...to do so is asking for near insta-death), PvE skills and gear cant be used in PvP and vice versa. Voila! Balance achieved if you combine it with no CP allowed in PvP. To do that though, they would need to put significant effort into their game.

Why would they do such a drastic, time and resources consuming thing when classes are about fine balanced wise. They just got to buffed some sustain dmge from wardens, maybe for mtemplars too and that's about it.

STEVIL · July 2017

josiahva wrote: »

notimetocare wrote: »

seedubsrun wrote: »

The Warden is the perfect example of the need to balance PvP and PvE separately. Amazing in one instance and junk in the other. Really though they need to, first, fix the bugs with the class, then, adjust the passives so they're actually useful and helpful, finally, adjust the skills themselves. Only 6 of the 18 class skills do any attack damage with a couple others offering mild nothing damage. The lack of an execute should change. A fletcher morph could easily fill that role. There should be more damage use from the ice skill line too. The burst damage skills are fine. There just needs to be more options.

Wont happen. Its not simple to balance separate, and its not worth it.

Ice is a tank specific tree. You really want more unkillable pvp tanks, that is what you are asking for

This is exactly the problem. Warden has an ice damage buff...but no ice damage skills to take advantage of said buff. Its like giving a DK a flame damage buff, then making the ardent flame tree a tanking line instead of DPS and leaving cinder-cloud as the only dmg spell. This forces you are an ice-damage focused warden to use just a whole 2 class skills for ice damage(both of which are AoE only)...any other ice or frost damage has to come from destro staff line and ice-comet morph of meteor.

The one and ONLY skill they got 100% correct on warden is the Ice storm ult. Its a great ult. The healing ult isnt bad either, but the bear is a terrible ult, absolutely worthless for a magicka build.

Last i checked the passive is not an ice damage buff, right?

Really, it is a magic damage and frost damage buff and the mag warden has quite a few magic damage attacks?

Sure they can only fill four slots with frost damage skills - ultimate, winter revenge, the reflecting shield and arctic blast for example - but they have more than enough magic damage skills to throw in to make that buff at least worth the pixels used to display it, right?

i mean if i read it correctly, between class magic damage and frost damage spells they can fill two ultimate sl;ots and six ability slots with different magic or frost damage abilities. Even if you dont want to count the shield because it is reactive, that is still over half their available slots that that one buff boosts **if** they want it to see more play.

No, i am not saying this makes for an awesome build nor that ice staff is great and powerful, just pointing out that the line about no abilities and that buff is as "exactly the problem" just flat out incorrect.

Neoauspex · July 2017

Something needs to be done about Cliff Racer in PvP. Everything should have some sort of counter.

Drachenfier · July 2017

seedubsrun wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

seedubsrun wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

mandricus wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Again, this is not only a PvP game. Classes need to be balanced for PvE and PvP. Warden DPS is completely useless in PvE right now,. They also get outperformed as a tank and healer by DK and templar.

There are ways to balance the class for both modes. ZOS has just failed at it.

I agree. It is not a PvP only game, and it is not a PvE only game. Balancing a class for both worlds it really is a complex task.
I'm just saying that, buffing Wardens for PvE, without considering PvP impacts, would probably lead to buffing a class that PvP-wise is already OP.

This is proably the same reason why Sorcs are so much overpowered in PvE, being a "no brainer" choice for anyone being a DD interested in end-game PvE. The gap between a magsorc with Necropotence / Ilambris / Moondanced and any other spec / class in terms on ease of use (both rotation-wise, one of the easiest amongst all spec/classes, and in terms of survailabilty, given the 20k shields that Sorcs are able to cast on themselves almost all the time) and the DPS that you might be able to pull at the same time, it's just ridiculous.

On the other hand, they are not so much overpowered in PvP. A flat nerf to them would probably lead to a class in line with others PvE-Wise, but too weak PvP-wise.

clearly this cant be true. i just left threads in the PTs section where "experts" are saying how great stamina is at arena/trial/dungeon DPS not even close anyone else with the great dw healing to boot.

:-)

This is true. While magsorcs are still really great, they're being out parsed by stam for sure. Getting bored with the endless calls for sorc nerfs. They're not needed. If anything magsorcs should be the template for buffing other mag classes especially the warden. Sure the sorc has really strong abilities but more so they have a lot of versatility and their passives are quality and work great with their skills. Wardens passives are junk and most are totally useless depending on your build.

I dunno, in Kyne last night I got two shot by a sorc...a 10k and a 9k overload light attack. Seems excessive.

You got killed by an ultimate? The strongest ability in a skill line kind of ultimate? Sorry to hear that. It's clearly excessive to be killed by an ability that's supposed to be strong enough to kill.

I wish some of my ultimates hit that hard and gave me an extra skill bar.

SanTii.92 · July 2017

Neoauspex wrote: »

Something needs to be done about Cliff Racer in PvP. Everything should have some sort of counter.

The counter, or better said the trade off is that it is delayed. Also that the class itself have very limited offensive possibilities, so they are stucked with the same skills and patterns which makes them predictable, one dimensional.