PLEASE DONT BUFF the *** out of MagWardens.

Sarato

Title says it all. Any supporters or objections?


[edited for profanity masking]

Thogard

It's too late. We already know its going to happen.

You will never be able to get away from their cliff races, and you wont be able to DPS them through their dmg shield and their ult that they'll cast every 8s.

MLGProPlayer

They're the worst PvE class, by a country mile. They desperately need buffs.

I know PvP is a different story, but this isn't just a PvP game. Classes need to be balanced for both modes.

The easiest solution would be to improve the class passives (warden passives don't do enough to buff damage at the moment) and give the bear an AOE attack when cast. If this makes them too strong in PvP, just make cliff racer dodgeable. Simple.

Turelus

Maybe... just maybe...

We could try and balance everything at the same level, and not buff the *bleep* out of things.

MLGProPlayer

Turelus wrote: »

Maybe... just maybe...

We could try and balance everything at the same level, and not buff the *bleep* out of things.

Magicka warden is so far behind the other classes in PvE that they actually need the *** buffed out of them.

Feanor

The only problem is that every damage skill is delayed and has a long animation to boot. That should be solved, not the damage of the skills itself.

leepalmer95

Did i miss something?

Jitterbug

Just up the ice aoe dps. Easy dps in dungeons, easy to dodge in PvP.

mandricus

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Magicka warden is so far behind the other classes in PvE that they actually need the *** buffed out of them.

And yet they are so *** OP in PvP and Battlegrounds that any buff to the Warden could only make things worse.
They are almost unkillable and yet able to pull a *** amount of damage if used properly.
When you go in a battleground and on the other side there is someone able to use them properly, you have absolutely no chance to win the game. They are overpowered as ***.

MLGProPlayer

mandricus wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Magicka warden is so far behind the other classes in PvE that they actually need the *** buffed out of them.

And yet they are so *** OP in PvP and Battlegrounds that any buff to the Warden could only make things worse.
They are almost unkillable and yet able to pull a *** amount of damage if used properly.
When you go in a battleground and on the other side there is someone able to use them properly, you have absolutely no chance to win the game. They are overpowered as ***.

Again, this is not only a PvP game. Classes need to be balanced for PvE and PvP. Warden DPS is completely useless in PvE right now (they don't even come close to the other classes in terms of damage output). Wardens only have burst damage, which has no use in PvE.

There are ways to balance the class for both modes. ZOS has just failed at it.

MLGProPlayer

Jitterbug wrote: »

Just up the ice aoe dps. Easy dps in dungeons, easy to dodge in PvP.

It's actually bugged and has been since Morrowind beta. The skill uses weapon crit instead of spell crit. They definitely need to fix that already.

Feanor

Balancing should be done in the following order: balance for noCP PvP, then balance the CP system so that it's balanced in CP PvP, then balance PvE around that. ZOS just doesn't want to do that effort.

Skjoldur

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

If this makes them too strong in PvP, just make cliff racer dodgeable. Simple.

That would not work due to the delayed damage. A 1-2 second warning to dodge would make it unusable in PvP.

LilySix

Why should be PVE balanced around PVP ?

mandricus

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Again, this is not only a PvP game. Classes need to be balanced for PvE and PvP. Warden DPS is completely useless in PvE right now,. They also get outperformed as a tank and healer by DK and templar.

There are ways to balance the class for both modes. ZOS has just failed at it.

I agree. It is not a PvP only game, and it is not a PvE only game. Balancing a class for both worlds it really is a complex task.
I'm just saying that, buffing Wardens for PvE, without considering PvP impacts, would probably lead to buffing a class that PvP-wise is already OP.

This is proably the same reason why Sorcs are so much overpowered in PvE, being a "no brainer" choice for anyone being a DD interested in end-game PvE. The gap between a magsorc with Necropotence / Ilambris / Moondanced and any other spec / class in terms on ease of use (both rotation-wise, one of the easiest amongst all spec/classes, and in terms of survailabilty, given the 20k shields that Sorcs are able to cast on themselves almost all the time) and the DPS that you might be able to pull at the same time, it's just ridiculous.

On the other hand, they are not so much overpowered in PvP. A flat nerf to them would probably lead to a class in line with others PvE-Wise, but too weak PvP-wise.

HatchetHaro

Yeah reverse psychology isn't going to work.

Jitterbug

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Jitterbug wrote: »

Just up the ice aoe dps. Easy dps in dungeons, easy to dodge in PvP.

It's actually bugged and has been since Morrowind beta. The skill uses weapon crit instead of spell crit. They definitely need to fix that already.

Dont think it's enough just to fix it. To close the gap it also needs more base damage.
I would like a mechanic where it did more and more damage the longer you stood in it.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

They're the worst PvE class, by a country mile. They desperately need buffs.

I know PvP is a different story, but this isn't just a PvP game. Classes need to be balanced for both modes.

The easiest solution would be to improve the class passives (warden passives don't do enough to buff damage at the moment) and give the bear an AOE attack when cast. If this makes them too strong in PvP, just make cliff racer dodgeable. Simple.

By that logic Nightblades are next to get buffed? As we suck in PvE but hold our own in PvP.

SodanTok

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Jitterbug wrote: »

Just up the ice aoe dps. Easy dps in dungeons, easy to dodge in PvP.

It's actually bugged and has been since Morrowind beta. The skill uses weapon crit instead of spell crit. They definitely need to fix that already.

And when was the last time anybody actually tested it? Anyway, it does scale with spell crit for me on PTS.

//EDIT: Apparently it is whole another problem, where it just has lower crit than it should. Could be ignoring buffs like CP or prophecy...

DeHei

In PvE is no reason to use cliffracer.. the damage is really low.. For PvP its a great skill cause of the time until it hits.. but it dont need a buff!

Cardhwion

Feanor wrote: »

Balancing should be done in the following order: balance for noCP PvP, then balance the CP system so that it's balanced in CP PvP, then balance PvE around that. ZOS just doesn't want to do that effort.

I'd rather say: balance PVE first, and PVP as a distant second. The majority of this game is PVE.

Tryxus

We just want to be left alone: no buffs and no nerfs

IcyDeadPeople

All I see is wardens are quite tanky, have tremendous burst damage and insane healing - the class seems a bit too strong in PVP.

I don't understand how they could be bad in PVE, somebody explain? They should be right up there close to templars as a healer, if not better in some ways.

Feanor

@Cardhwion

Says who exactly? Your guts? Statistics? ZOS? Anyway, PvP is a vital part of the game and not the red headed step child.

SoLooney

Yea, mag wardens need a serious buff in pve its not fun when my other dps classes beat it by leagues, why should i play end game content with such a weak character, im not doing myself or my team a favor. The only time the warden gets some sun is to get weekly rewards from vma.

Yes, pvp its different and thats the problem, its very difficult to balance between pvp and pve. They did a horrible job with that the champ points, and only one pvp campaign has cp points, what a joke.

Hard not to buff one side without shafting the other

seedubsrun

The Warden is the perfect example of the need to balance PvP and PvE separately. Amazing in one instance and junk in the other. Really though they need to, first, fix the bugs with the class, then, adjust the passives so they're actually useful and helpful, finally, adjust the skills themselves. Only 6 of the 18 class skills do any attack damage with a couple others offering mild nothing damage. The lack of an execute should change. A fletcher morph could easily fill that role. There should be more damage use from the ice skill line too. The burst damage skills are fine. There just needs to be more options.

Tryxus

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

All I see is wardens are quite tanky, have tremendous burst damage and insane healing - the class seems a bit too strong in PVP.

I don't understand how they could be bad in PVE, somebody explain? They should be right up there close to templars as a healer, if not better in some ways.

They are just as good as.Templars when it comes to healing (Temp is marginally better) and are the 2nd best tanks, behind the DK, in PvE. Wardens are also very strong in PvP indeed.

The only thing they suck at is PvE DPS due to weak passives and delayed skills, which aren't very useful for a Damage Per Second role

But honestly, the Warden doesn't need a DPS increase.

Smmokkee

Skjoldur wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

If this makes them too strong in PvP, just make cliff racer dodgeable. Simple.

That would not work due to the delayed damage. A 1-2 second warning to dodge would make it unusable in PvP.

Lol

LilySix

I don't like the Warden as a healer in PVE... There's no need to heal that much... Your team mates need to be buffed, they need sustain. They need a warhorn and not that damn forest.

As a tank, I prefer DK.... Unrelenting grips are so usefull. I don't like to heal in a group that has a warden as a tank... Too much DPS loss...

NordSwordnBoard

I think the ice staff passives stink, they may be on the right track for tanking, but start there to add dps to pve magwardens (how are pve stamwardens, or should I not ask?).

Aoe damage increases on skills that fall short in pvp are the ones to address. Make the flies do something people would heal/purge but npcs obviously won't.

I was having fun leveling in skyreach last night, my 30 lvl ice warden was emulating my magsorc and doing fine, but the dps difference between lightning heavies and ice limits ice to tanks. Without witchmothers I dont know where I'd get sustain.

This warden is for pvp where I hope to make use of double ice staves or maybe resto back for max ice and the slowness.

Morbash

Buff cliff racer! Needs moar damage and less counters. Make it unblockable, apply a 200% healing debuff for 10 seconds with a 5 second CD, and apply a 200% snare. Your opponents will now moonwalk while killing themselves with self heals.

Because screw solo players. All hail the mighty Zerg!

#balancebywrobel