Vyr Cor | "Return" | HYBRID DK PVP & Sorc Theory Crafting!

Magıc · July 2017

Derra wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

Warden birds for one but i think we all have issues with those damned birds xD

Any mag build that uses Harness Magicka welcomes the birds... free magicka!

So the occasional mag sorc and maybe mag wardens? Possibly light armour magplars if they enjoy dying over and over.

occasional mag sorc... lol... it seems EU at least has no shortage of mag sorcs.

I play on EU. I don't use harness because what it provides for it's cost isn't worth it (even more so with the bastion CP star becoming a dead star, which is one of if not the main issue with harness/dampen atm). More and more sorcs are dropping it. Magblades are slowly adapting to the HoT builds without harness. Only LA magplars use harness, of which there are very few. Same for mDKs, heavy still BiS and I have no clue about mWardens.

Well just about every magsorc you meet open field runs it. It still pays for far more than it costs if you use it together with hardened and have 40k+ magica.

I don't see many mag sorcs run it in all honesty. Not EP/AD mag sorcs. I notice it more often on DC mag sorcs. Either that or the shield size is so small that I'm not noticing it.

I brought my sorc out of the garage last week. Still a little rusty on it, but my purely subjective experience just playing some open world PvP with various old builds and bar setups is that Harness is underwhelming and unnecessary. Front bar Hardened on the same key as Healing Ward with Inner Light front bar and Curse back bar felt best to me.

Never really liked curse backbar. It´s too much pressure lost against good opponents when you´re not constantly reapplying.

Why would you loose dmg on the first explosion @Magıc

No clue. Malcolm, Hexys and others said it's dealing less damage on the first explosion. With how buggy the game is, I just took their word for it because it wouldn't surprise me.

Derra · July 2017

Magıc wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

Warden birds for one but i think we all have issues with those damned birds xD

Any mag build that uses Harness Magicka welcomes the birds... free magicka!

So the occasional mag sorc and maybe mag wardens? Possibly light armour magplars if they enjoy dying over and over.

occasional mag sorc... lol... it seems EU at least has no shortage of mag sorcs.

I play on EU. I don't use harness because what it provides for it's cost isn't worth it (even more so with the bastion CP star becoming a dead star, which is one of if not the main issue with harness/dampen atm). More and more sorcs are dropping it. Magblades are slowly adapting to the HoT builds without harness. Only LA magplars use harness, of which there are very few. Same for mDKs, heavy still BiS and I have no clue about mWardens.

Well just about every magsorc you meet open field runs it. It still pays for far more than it costs if you use it together with hardened and have 40k+ magica.

I don't see many mag sorcs run it in all honesty. Not EP/AD mag sorcs. I notice it more often on DC mag sorcs. Either that or the shield size is so small that I'm not noticing it.

I brought my sorc out of the garage last week. Still a little rusty on it, but my purely subjective experience just playing some open world PvP with various old builds and bar setups is that Harness is underwhelming and unnecessary. Front bar Hardened on the same key as Healing Ward with Inner Light front bar and Curse back bar felt best to me.

Never really liked curse backbar. It´s too much pressure lost against good opponents when you´re not constantly reapplying.

Why would you loose dmg on the first explosion @Magıc

No clue. Malcolm, Hexys and others said it's dealing less damage on the first explosion. With how buggy the game is, I just took their word for it because it wouldn't surprise me.

don´t bother it´s completely weird how dmg is calculated - which hasn´t been the case for homestead when i tested it last.

ok mystery solved. penetration is calculated at cast for curse dmg. when you cast it from a nonsharpened bar you loose dmg.

Magıc · July 2017

Well, I'm glad that for once when I didn't test it still came out to be true.

Lexxypwns · July 2017

Derra wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

Warden birds for one but i think we all have issues with those damned birds xD

Any mag build that uses Harness Magicka welcomes the birds... free magicka!

So the occasional mag sorc and maybe mag wardens? Possibly light armour magplars if they enjoy dying over and over.

occasional mag sorc... lol... it seems EU at least has no shortage of mag sorcs.

I play on EU. I don't use harness because what it provides for it's cost isn't worth it (even more so with the bastion CP star becoming a dead star, which is one of if not the main issue with harness/dampen atm). More and more sorcs are dropping it. Magblades are slowly adapting to the HoT builds without harness. Only LA magplars use harness, of which there are very few. Same for mDKs, heavy still BiS and I have no clue about mWardens.

Well just about every magsorc you meet open field runs it. It still pays for far more than it costs if you use it together with hardened and have 40k+ magica.

I don't see many mag sorcs run it in all honesty. Not EP/AD mag sorcs. I notice it more often on DC mag sorcs. Either that or the shield size is so small that I'm not noticing it.

I brought my sorc out of the garage last week. Still a little rusty on it, but my purely subjective experience just playing some open world PvP with various old builds and bar setups is that Harness is underwhelming and unnecessary. Front bar Hardened on the same key as Healing Ward with Inner Light front bar and Curse back bar felt best to me.

Never really liked curse backbar. It´s too much pressure lost against good opponents when you´re not constantly reapplying.

Why would you loose dmg on the first explosion @Magıc

No clue. Malcolm, Hexys and others said it's dealing less damage on the first explosion. With how buggy the game is, I just took their word for it because it wouldn't surprise me.

don´t bother it´s completely weird how dmg is calculated - which hasn´t been the case for homestead when i tested it last.

ok mystery solved. penetration is calculated at cast for curse dmg. when you cast it from a nonsharpened bar you loose dmg.

That's unfortunate, I really liked back bar-ing curse, and putting both inner light and ele drain front bar, but then I'm probably one of the few sorcs still running overload for the third bar.

Magıc · July 2017

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

Warden birds for one but i think we all have issues with those damned birds xD

Any mag build that uses Harness Magicka welcomes the birds... free magicka!

So the occasional mag sorc and maybe mag wardens? Possibly light armour magplars if they enjoy dying over and over.

occasional mag sorc... lol... it seems EU at least has no shortage of mag sorcs.

I play on EU. I don't use harness because what it provides for it's cost isn't worth it (even more so with the bastion CP star becoming a dead star, which is one of if not the main issue with harness/dampen atm). More and more sorcs are dropping it. Magblades are slowly adapting to the HoT builds without harness. Only LA magplars use harness, of which there are very few. Same for mDKs, heavy still BiS and I have no clue about mWardens.

Well just about every magsorc you meet open field runs it. It still pays for far more than it costs if you use it together with hardened and have 40k+ magica.

I don't see many mag sorcs run it in all honesty. Not EP/AD mag sorcs. I notice it more often on DC mag sorcs. Either that or the shield size is so small that I'm not noticing it.

I brought my sorc out of the garage last week. Still a little rusty on it, but my purely subjective experience just playing some open world PvP with various old builds and bar setups is that Harness is underwhelming and unnecessary. Front bar Hardened on the same key as Healing Ward with Inner Light front bar and Curse back bar felt best to me.

Never really liked curse backbar. It´s too much pressure lost against good opponents when you´re not constantly reapplying.

Why would you loose dmg on the first explosion @Magıc

No clue. Malcolm, Hexys and others said it's dealing less damage on the first explosion. With how buggy the game is, I just took their word for it because it wouldn't surprise me.

don´t bother it´s completely weird how dmg is calculated - which hasn´t been the case for homestead when i tested it last.

ok mystery solved. penetration is calculated at cast for curse dmg. when you cast it from a nonsharpened bar you loose dmg.

That's unfortunate, I really liked back bar-ing curse, and putting both inner light and ele drain front bar, but then I'm probably one of the few sorcs still running overload for the third bar.

I run ovl when solo, as a 3rd offensive bar though. Frag/Curse/Ward/IL/Boundless.

NightbladeMechanics · July 2017

Derra wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

Docmandu wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

Warden birds for one but i think we all have issues with those damned birds xD

Any mag build that uses Harness Magicka welcomes the birds... free magicka!

So the occasional mag sorc and maybe mag wardens? Possibly light armour magplars if they enjoy dying over and over.

occasional mag sorc... lol... it seems EU at least has no shortage of mag sorcs.

I play on EU. I don't use harness because what it provides for it's cost isn't worth it (even more so with the bastion CP star becoming a dead star, which is one of if not the main issue with harness/dampen atm). More and more sorcs are dropping it. Magblades are slowly adapting to the HoT builds without harness. Only LA magplars use harness, of which there are very few. Same for mDKs, heavy still BiS and I have no clue about mWardens.

Well just about every magsorc you meet open field runs it. It still pays for far more than it costs if you use it together with hardened and have 40k+ magica.

I don't see many mag sorcs run it in all honesty. Not EP/AD mag sorcs. I notice it more often on DC mag sorcs. Either that or the shield size is so small that I'm not noticing it.

I brought my sorc out of the garage last week. Still a little rusty on it, but my purely subjective experience just playing some open world PvP with various old builds and bar setups is that Harness is underwhelming and unnecessary. Front bar Hardened on the same key as Healing Ward with Inner Light front bar and Curse back bar felt best to me.

Never really liked curse backbar. It´s too much pressure lost against good opponents when you´re not constantly reapplying.

Why would you loose dmg on the first explosion @Magıc

I do constantly reapply. I just weapon swap weave it in.

I don't know if it deals less damage on the first explosion or not.. Haven't really paid attention. I know meteor does if you cast it from your back bar. I believe it takes the spell damage of your front bar when it impacts the enemy, but the trait from your back bar.

I need to test this.

Arkangeloski · July 2017

Finally somebody using proc sets and is not burning on a cross by angry ppl with pitch forks... Great video

i personally dont play dk but defenitely im trying it naw

NightbladeMechanics · July 2017

Alright, can confirm, delayed burst abilities like Meteor and Curse will take the spell damage of the bar on which they detonate, but the trait of the bar on which they were cast.

In other words, back bar Curse, Meteor...probably proxy and destro ult (I didn't test them specifically)...and other delayed damage abilities will NOT benefit from your sharpened front bar trait.

Guess I'm putting Curse front bar and Hardened back bar again... Feelsbad

@Magıc @Derra

Arkangeloski wrote: »

Finally somebody using proc sets and is not burning on a cross by angry ppl with pitch forks... Great video i personally dont play dk but defenitely im trying it naw

No proc sets in that video as far as I saw.

Magıc · July 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Alright, can confirm, delayed burst abilities like Meteor and Curse will take the spell damage of the bar on which they detonate, but the trait of the bar on which they were cast.

In other words, back bar Curse, Meteor...probably proxy and destro ult (I didn't test them specifically)...and other delayed damage abilities will NOT benefit from your sharpened front bar trait.

Guess I'm putting Curse front bar and Hardened back bar again... Feelsbad

@Magıc @Derra

Exact reason I play curse frontbar hardened backbar. I do feel more comfortable with hardened front bar ( mainly because of the lag spikes on EU & the amount of times CC break bugs out) but it's not worth the damage loss.

NightbladeMechanics · July 2017

Magıc wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Alright, can confirm, delayed burst abilities like Meteor and Curse will take the spell damage of the bar on which they detonate, but the trait of the bar on which they were cast.

In other words, back bar Curse, Meteor...probably proxy and destro ult (I didn't test them specifically)...and other delayed damage abilities will NOT benefit from your sharpened front bar trait.

Guess I'm putting Curse front bar and Hardened back bar again... Feelsbad

@Magıc @Derra

Exact reason I play curse frontbar hardened backbar. I do feel more comfortable with hardened front bar ( mainly because of the lag spikes on EU & the amount of times CC break bugs out) but it's not worth the damage loss.

I like it because it allows me to merge my offensive and defensive windows some.

I also have a Master destro and vMA resto, but not the other way around.

Oh well, so much for that. The damage difference is too significant, agreed.

Edit, also when you went to cut my other quote and comment off the end of my post, you cut the /quote tag off the end. That's why your reply merged with your quote up there. I corrected it in my quote when I replied, but yea.

Magıc · July 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Alright, can confirm, delayed burst abilities like Meteor and Curse will take the spell damage of the bar on which they detonate, but the trait of the bar on which they were cast.

In other words, back bar Curse, Meteor...probably proxy and destro ult (I didn't test them specifically)...and other delayed damage abilities will NOT benefit from your sharpened front bar trait.

Guess I'm putting Curse front bar and Hardened back bar again... Feelsbad

@Magıc @Derra

Exact reason I play curse frontbar hardened backbar. I do feel more comfortable with hardened front bar ( mainly because of the lag spikes on EU & the amount of times CC break bugs out) but it's not worth the damage loss.

I like it because it allows me to merge my offensive and defensive windows some.

I also have a Master destro and vMA resto, but not the other way around.

Oh well, so much for that. The damage difference is too significant, agreed.

Edit, also when you went to cut my other quote and comment off the end of my post, you cut the /quote tag off the end. That's why your reply merged with your quote up there. I corrected it in my quote when I replied, but yea.

I run a master destro (vma rng is aids) but I run a random resto for the SD enchant.

And quoting on mobile is aids, that's why my quote *** up. I was too lazy to correct it.

NightbladeMechanics · July 2017

Magıc wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Alright, can confirm, delayed burst abilities like Meteor and Curse will take the spell damage of the bar on which they detonate, but the trait of the bar on which they were cast.

In other words, back bar Curse, Meteor...probably proxy and destro ult (I didn't test them specifically)...and other delayed damage abilities will NOT benefit from your sharpened front bar trait.

Guess I'm putting Curse front bar and Hardened back bar again... Feelsbad

@Magıc @Derra

Exact reason I play curse frontbar hardened backbar. I do feel more comfortable with hardened front bar ( mainly because of the lag spikes on EU & the amount of times CC break bugs out) but it's not worth the damage loss.

I like it because it allows me to merge my offensive and defensive windows some.

I also have a Master destro and vMA resto, but not the other way around.

Oh well, so much for that. The damage difference is too significant, agreed.

Edit, also when you went to cut my other quote and comment off the end of my post, you cut the /quote tag off the end. That's why your reply merged with your quote up there. I corrected it in my quote when I replied, but yea.

I run a master destro (vma rng is aids) but I run a random resto for the SD enchant.

And quoting on mobile is aids, that's why my quote *** up. I was too lazy to correct it.

Hmmmmmmm I do want to use a spell damage enchant now that you mention it... I used to do that with back bar 5pc Magnus. Not like a vMA resto does me any favors.

My next thought is that split 5pc sets + 2pc Undaunted might be the way to go instead of Amber + Willpower, which is what I've been using. Just having a dead staff feels inefficient, but is it really?

I like Lich + Riposte because I'm a Riposte fanboy, but that lacks damage and stamina sustain. Spinner + Lich has damage and magicka sustain but lacks stamina sustain. Spinner + Riposte has damage and op survivability, but lacks magicka and stamina sustain. Bloodthorn comes to mind for mixed sustain, but you don't get resources from it when kiting around, which you'll need on sorc. Engine is too inconsistent to rely too heavily on for magicka or stamina sustain imo. Also Willpower is just really strong if you can run a build with one 5pc set that doesn't have a glaring tradeoff versus another build with split 5pc sets on the staves.

I keep coming back to Amber + Willpower as the best of all three worlds. Have any ideas for other set combinations that could compete?

Magıc · July 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Alright, can confirm, delayed burst abilities like Meteor and Curse will take the spell damage of the bar on which they detonate, but the trait of the bar on which they were cast.

In other words, back bar Curse, Meteor...probably proxy and destro ult (I didn't test them specifically)...and other delayed damage abilities will NOT benefit from your sharpened front bar trait.

Guess I'm putting Curse front bar and Hardened back bar again... Feelsbad

@Magıc @Derra

Exact reason I play curse frontbar hardened backbar. I do feel more comfortable with hardened front bar ( mainly because of the lag spikes on EU & the amount of times CC break bugs out) but it's not worth the damage loss.

I like it because it allows me to merge my offensive and defensive windows some.

I also have a Master destro and vMA resto, but not the other way around.

Oh well, so much for that. The damage difference is too significant, agreed.

Edit, also when you went to cut my other quote and comment off the end of my post, you cut the /quote tag off the end. That's why your reply merged with your quote up there. I corrected it in my quote when I replied, but yea.

I run a master destro (vma rng is aids) but I run a random resto for the SD enchant.

And quoting on mobile is aids, that's why my quote *** up. I was too lazy to correct it.

Hmmmmmmm I do want to use a spell damage enchant now that you mention it... I used to do that with back bar 5pc Magnus. Not like a vMA resto does me any favors.

My next thought is that split 5pc sets + 2pc Undaunted might be the way to go instead of Amber + Willpower, which is what I've been using. Just having a dead staff feels inefficient, but is it really?

I like Lich + Riposte because I'm a Riposte fanboy, but that lacks damage and stamina sustain. Spinner + Lich has damage and magicka sustain but lacks stamina sustain. Spinner + Riposte has damage and op survivability, but lacks magicka and stamina sustain. Bloodthorn comes to mind for mixed sustain, but you don't get resources from it when kiting around, which you'll need on sorc. Engine is too inconsistent to rely too heavily on for magicka or stamina sustain imo. Also Willpower is just really strong if you can run a build with one 5pc set that doesn't have a glaring tradeoff versus another build with split 5pc sets on the staves.

I keep coming back to Amber + Willpower as the best of all three worlds. Have any ideas for other set combinations that could compete?

I speak to Derra, Malcolm, Fasold & other top EU sorcs daily about this because no one (except Malcolm) has really found a build for mag sorc that they really like 100%.

Derra will tell you Amber + WP is BiS for solo, and after trying various different setups I've slowly found Amber + WP to be BiS for solo too, undaunted sets are just so strong atm. For small scale group, BS is BiS imo as your undaunted, the ulti gen is amazing. I'm going to try shackle instead of Amber for small scale group too, again with WP and BS as my undaunted. The damage you lose isn't as much of a problem in group, rather you want more support/survivability which is the argument for shackle over amber in group. Can update you once I've played with shackle but there really isn't too much difference, I just want BiS (and to look cool when killing people

NightbladeMechanics · July 2017

Magıc wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Alright, can confirm, delayed burst abilities like Meteor and Curse will take the spell damage of the bar on which they detonate, but the trait of the bar on which they were cast.

In other words, back bar Curse, Meteor...probably proxy and destro ult (I didn't test them specifically)...and other delayed damage abilities will NOT benefit from your sharpened front bar trait.

Guess I'm putting Curse front bar and Hardened back bar again... Feelsbad

@Magıc @Derra

Exact reason I play curse frontbar hardened backbar. I do feel more comfortable with hardened front bar ( mainly because of the lag spikes on EU & the amount of times CC break bugs out) but it's not worth the damage loss.

I like it because it allows me to merge my offensive and defensive windows some.

I also have a Master destro and vMA resto, but not the other way around.

Oh well, so much for that. The damage difference is too significant, agreed.

Edit, also when you went to cut my other quote and comment off the end of my post, you cut the /quote tag off the end. That's why your reply merged with your quote up there. I corrected it in my quote when I replied, but yea.

I run a master destro (vma rng is aids) but I run a random resto for the SD enchant.

And quoting on mobile is aids, that's why my quote *** up. I was too lazy to correct it.

Hmmmmmmm I do want to use a spell damage enchant now that you mention it... I used to do that with back bar 5pc Magnus. Not like a vMA resto does me any favors.

My next thought is that split 5pc sets + 2pc Undaunted might be the way to go instead of Amber + Willpower, which is what I've been using. Just having a dead staff feels inefficient, but is it really?

I like Lich + Riposte because I'm a Riposte fanboy, but that lacks damage and stamina sustain. Spinner + Lich has damage and magicka sustain but lacks stamina sustain. Spinner + Riposte has damage and op survivability, but lacks magicka and stamina sustain. Bloodthorn comes to mind for mixed sustain, but you don't get resources from it when kiting around, which you'll need on sorc. Engine is too inconsistent to rely too heavily on for magicka or stamina sustain imo. Also Willpower is just really strong if you can run a build with one 5pc set that doesn't have a glaring tradeoff versus another build with split 5pc sets on the staves.

I keep coming back to Amber + Willpower as the best of all three worlds. Have any ideas for other set combinations that could compete?

I speak to Derra, Malcolm, Fasold & other top EU sorcs daily about this because no one (except Malcolm) has really found a build for mag sorc that they really like 100%.

Derra will tell you Amber + WP is BiS for solo, and after trying various different setups I've slowly found Amber + WP to be BiS for solo too, undaunted sets are just so strong atm. For small scale group, BS is BiS imo as your undaunted, the ulti gen is amazing. I'm going to try shackle instead of Amber for small scale group too, again with WP and BS as my undaunted. The damage you lose isn't as much of a problem in group, rather you want more support/survivability which is the argument for shackle over amber in group. Can update you once I've played with shackle but there really isn't too much difference, I just want BiS (and to look cool when killing people

Would you be comparing Shackle + Witchmother's to Amber + tristat food? I don't really feel like Amber + Willpower with tristat, Shadow, and Undaunted lacks anything...except for perhaps a back bar spell damage glyph for a little extra damage.

I do really like Blood Spawn on my sorc. I was using that before, and it's only gotten better now that Harness isn't on the bar.

DKsUnite · July 2017

Arkangeloski wrote: »

Finally somebody using proc sets and is not burning on a cross by angry ppl with pitch forks... Great video i personally dont play dk but defenitely im trying it naw

You gotta distract them with something else and they forget about the proc sets

Malamar1229 · July 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Alright, can confirm, delayed burst abilities like Meteor and Curse will take the spell damage of the bar on which they detonate, but the trait of the bar on which they were cast.

In other words, back bar Curse, Meteor...probably proxy and destro ult (I didn't test them specifically)...and other delayed damage abilities will NOT benefit from your sharpened front bar trait.

Guess I'm putting Curse front bar and Hardened back bar again... Feelsbad

@Magıc @Derra

Exact reason I play curse frontbar hardened backbar. I do feel more comfortable with hardened front bar ( mainly because of the lag spikes on EU & the amount of times CC break bugs out) but it's not worth the damage loss.

I like it because it allows me to merge my offensive and defensive windows some.

I also have a Master destro and vMA resto, but not the other way around.

Oh well, so much for that. The damage difference is too significant, agreed.

Edit, also when you went to cut my other quote and comment off the end of my post, you cut the /quote tag off the end. That's why your reply merged with your quote up there. I corrected it in my quote when I replied, but yea.

I run a master destro (vma rng is aids) but I run a random resto for the SD enchant.

And quoting on mobile is aids, that's why my quote *** up. I was too lazy to correct it.

Hmmmmmmm I do want to use a spell damage enchant now that you mention it... I used to do that with back bar 5pc Magnus. Not like a vMA resto does me any favors.

My next thought is that split 5pc sets + 2pc Undaunted might be the way to go instead of Amber + Willpower, which is what I've been using. Just having a dead staff feels inefficient, but is it really?

I like Lich + Riposte because I'm a Riposte fanboy, but that lacks damage and stamina sustain. Spinner + Lich has damage and magicka sustain but lacks stamina sustain. Spinner + Riposte has damage and op survivability, but lacks magicka and stamina sustain. Bloodthorn comes to mind for mixed sustain, but you don't get resources from it when kiting around, which you'll need on sorc. Engine is too inconsistent to rely too heavily on for magicka or stamina sustain imo. Also Willpower is just really strong if you can run a build with one 5pc set that doesn't have a glaring tradeoff versus another build with split 5pc sets on the staves.

I keep coming back to Amber + Willpower as the best of all three worlds. Have any ideas for other set combinations that could compete?

check my build video if you like Riposte. i use that and amberplasm.

NightbladeMechanics · July 2017

Malamar1229 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Alright, can confirm, delayed burst abilities like Meteor and Curse will take the spell damage of the bar on which they detonate, but the trait of the bar on which they were cast.

In other words, back bar Curse, Meteor...probably proxy and destro ult (I didn't test them specifically)...and other delayed damage abilities will NOT benefit from your sharpened front bar trait.

Guess I'm putting Curse front bar and Hardened back bar again... Feelsbad

@Magıc @Derra

Exact reason I play curse frontbar hardened backbar. I do feel more comfortable with hardened front bar ( mainly because of the lag spikes on EU & the amount of times CC break bugs out) but it's not worth the damage loss.

I like it because it allows me to merge my offensive and defensive windows some.

I also have a Master destro and vMA resto, but not the other way around.

Oh well, so much for that. The damage difference is too significant, agreed.

Edit, also when you went to cut my other quote and comment off the end of my post, you cut the /quote tag off the end. That's why your reply merged with your quote up there. I corrected it in my quote when I replied, but yea.

I run a master destro (vma rng is aids) but I run a random resto for the SD enchant.

And quoting on mobile is aids, that's why my quote *** up. I was too lazy to correct it.

Hmmmmmmm I do want to use a spell damage enchant now that you mention it... I used to do that with back bar 5pc Magnus. Not like a vMA resto does me any favors.

My next thought is that split 5pc sets + 2pc Undaunted might be the way to go instead of Amber + Willpower, which is what I've been using. Just having a dead staff feels inefficient, but is it really?

I like Lich + Riposte because I'm a Riposte fanboy, but that lacks damage and stamina sustain. Spinner + Lich has damage and magicka sustain but lacks stamina sustain. Spinner + Riposte has damage and op survivability, but lacks magicka and stamina sustain. Bloodthorn comes to mind for mixed sustain, but you don't get resources from it when kiting around, which you'll need on sorc. Engine is too inconsistent to rely too heavily on for magicka or stamina sustain imo. Also Willpower is just really strong if you can run a build with one 5pc set that doesn't have a glaring tradeoff versus another build with split 5pc sets on the staves.

I keep coming back to Amber + Willpower as the best of all three worlds. Have any ideas for other set combinations that could compete?

check my build video if you like Riposte. i use that and amberplasm.

That would rule out 2pc Undaunted, leave me with the 1pc destro bar that I'm trying to eliminate (since I don't have a vMA fire staff), and prevent me from wearing 5-1-1.

I'm leaning toward Bloodthorn + Riposte + Engine/Blood Spawn right now, but I question its sustain when trying to kite enemies. Having to turn around to hit people to get resources back is annoying, but it might just work. I also question its damage.

A higher damage alternative would be Spinner + Lich + Engine/Blood Spawn, but that has much less stam sustain and foregoes Riposte. I could do Spinner + Riposte, but rip my magicka sustain.

My gut tells me Riposte is too op not to use on a shielding build, but I still wonder how best to incorporate it and if it's necessary to begin with. If I have the sustain to spam shields, I should probably just pump damage. Not sure yet. I'm looking forward to the experimentation!

Derra · July 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

check my build video if you like Riposte. i use that and amberplasm.

That would rule out 2pc Undaunted, leave me with the 1pc destro bar that I'm trying to eliminate (since I don't have a vMA fire staff), and prevent me from wearing 5-1-1.

I'm leaning toward Bloodthorn + Riposte + Engine/Blood Spawn right now, but I question its sustain when trying to kite enemies. Having to turn around to hit people to get resources back is annoying, but it might just work. I also question its damage.

A higher damage alternative would be Spinner + Lich + Engine/Blood Spawn, but that has much less stam sustain and foregoes Riposte. I could do Spinner + Riposte, but rip my magicka sustain.

My gut tells me Riposte is too op not to use on a shielding build, but I still wonder how best to incorporate it and if it's necessary to begin with. If I have the sustain to spam shields, I should probably just pump damage. Not sure yet. I'm looking forward to the experimentation!

STOP THE TAG!

Riposte + Lich + BS/Inferal/Grothdarr/Engine works fine.
I do think bloodTHORN *edit is seriously overrated in any form or shape (bloodspawn is seriously op and should be nerfed to crap).

Riposte in a one bar setup is always going to cost you around ~10 to 15% tooltip dmg while giving the 15% dmg debuff on enemies.
For my personal taste dmg is too low to actually kill even semi competent players wearing it. But you become immortal aswell so...

Personally i really dislike most tanky approaches to eso gameplay. You won´t kill any competent player with a tanky builds unless you´re looking for 10+ mins of constant buttonmashing to the point where one missed barswap is gonna cost the fight.
On the other hand those tanky builds are insanely potent when outnumbering an opponent.
For me personally it´s just the wrong approach to look at "not dying" before "how do i kill xy" - because the not dying inevitably increase xy you can´t kill withint reasonable timeframe.

Edit2: From my personal experience since the sustain nerf with morrowind alongside the bsw nerf only one setup utilizing 5 front 5 back 2 monster is truely vaible still and that´s 5 necro 2 shadowrend 5 lich.
Everything else i´ve tried gets outperformed by 5 3 2 1 if a player can utilize master or maelstrom weapons - it´s debateable without (from either a dmg or sustain perspective - if you´re looking for utility like spectres eye or riposte it´s vaible). 5 5 1 setups in general seem highly suboptimal with the exception of 5 amber 5 shackle and 5 amber/shackle 5 lich (backbar) + maelstrom/master front. These do come close but still get outperformed by monstersets.

Magıc · July 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Alright, can confirm, delayed burst abilities like Meteor and Curse will take the spell damage of the bar on which they detonate, but the trait of the bar on which they were cast.

In other words, back bar Curse, Meteor...probably proxy and destro ult (I didn't test them specifically)...and other delayed damage abilities will NOT benefit from your sharpened front bar trait.

Guess I'm putting Curse front bar and Hardened back bar again... Feelsbad

Exact reason I play curse frontbar hardened backbar. I do feel more comfortable with hardened front bar ( mainly because of the lag spikes on EU & the amount of times CC break bugs out) but it's not worth the damage loss.

I like it because it allows me to merge my offensive and defensive windows some.

I also have a Master destro and vMA resto, but not the other way around.

Oh well, so much for that. The damage difference is too significant, agreed.

Edit, also when you went to cut my other quote and comment off the end of my post, you cut the /quote tag off the end. That's why your reply merged with your quote up there. I corrected it in my quote when I replied, but yea.

I run a master destro (vma rng is aids) but I run a random resto for the SD enchant.

And quoting on mobile is aids, that's why my quote *** up. I was too lazy to correct it.

Hmmmmmmm I do want to use a spell damage enchant now that you mention it... I used to do that with back bar 5pc Magnus. Not like a vMA resto does me any favors.

My next thought is that split 5pc sets + 2pc Undaunted might be the way to go instead of Amber + Willpower, which is what I've been using. Just having a dead staff feels inefficient, but is it really?

I like Lich + Riposte because I'm a Riposte fanboy, but that lacks damage and stamina sustain. Spinner + Lich has damage and magicka sustain but lacks stamina sustain. Spinner + Riposte has damage and op survivability, but lacks magicka and stamina sustain. Bloodthorn comes to mind for mixed sustain, but you don't get resources from it when kiting around, which you'll need on sorc. Engine is too inconsistent to rely too heavily on for magicka or stamina sustain imo. Also Willpower is just really strong if you can run a build with one 5pc set that doesn't have a glaring tradeoff versus another build with split 5pc sets on the staves.

I keep coming back to Amber + Willpower as the best of all three worlds. Have any ideas for other set combinations that could compete?

I speak to Derra, Malcolm, Fasold & other top EU sorcs daily about this because no one (except Malcolm) has really found a build for mag sorc that they really like 100%.

Derra will tell you Amber + WP is BiS for solo, and after trying various different setups I've slowly found Amber + WP to be BiS for solo too, undaunted sets are just so strong atm. For small scale group, BS is BiS imo as your undaunted, the ulti gen is amazing. I'm going to try shackle instead of Amber for small scale group too, again with WP and BS as my undaunted. The damage you lose isn't as much of a problem in group, rather you want more support/survivability which is the argument for shackle over amber in group. Can update you once I've played with shackle but there really isn't too much difference, I just want BiS (and to look cool when killing people

Would you be comparing Shackle + Witchmother's to Amber + tristat food? I don't really feel like Amber + Willpower with tristat, Shadow, and Undaunted lacks anything...except for perhaps a back bar spell damage glyph for a little extra damage.

I do really like Blood Spawn on my sorc. I was using that before, and it's only gotten better now that Harness isn't on the bar.

Basically what Derra said above. Also, in terms of shackle + witchmothers, that's ONLY for group play. Not for solo, in which case as I said, I'd run Amber + WP anyway.

DKsUnite · July 2017

this is now a sorc theory crafting thread. NERF SORC IMO!

Iyas · July 2017

DKsUnite wrote: »

this is now a sorc theory crafting thread. NERF SORC IMO!

wanted to write the same

but take it as free bumps for your thread

DKsUnite · July 2017

Iyas wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

this is now a sorc theory crafting thread. NERF SORC IMO!

wanted to write the same but take it as free bumps for your thread

I edited the title so all bases are covered (Y)

Huggelz · July 2017

Anne_Firehawk wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

+10 points for wardrunna! But i'm really not convinced by your setup ^^

+1 for the idea of stacking ridiculous spelldamage and originality, I really like it. But I see there is a lot more potatoes on NA than on EU, that setup wouldn't work here I think.
Impregnable + DR in 5 Light still untouched.

kek EU is alot worse then NA

Huggelz · July 2017

BraidasNM wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Inig0 wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Inig0 wrote: »

exploiter cp passive is so gud.

also the claim "your bad players are more bad than our bad players" is probably one of the most ridiculous things ive heard in awhile; true or not. I certainly have no metric just seems difficult to gauge.

well, just compare with the last video on this thread :
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/328664/kitesquad-small-scale-pvp-video-series-7-7-17-warden-pov-first-post-updated#latest

and tell me the amount of counter play is as low

I think Vyr Cor's build is truly original and props for making it work, but yeah like everyone else said I don't think it would work on EU

meh i watched your latest vid (sick clips btw love the use of the warden toolkit shimmering shield is crazy good) and see that same bs on na. I have no quarry with you; just hyperbole like that. Like i said whether you or anyone think its true or not there is no legitimate metric one could construct to accurately define something like that so saying it is just ignorant.

Anyone i know that plays both servers shares the opinion that NA potatoes are much nicer to mash than EU ones.

If you don´t take the word of (multiple) people who have played both servers for more than an evening (mind you also having to play with increased latency) what do you want exactly?

I can see from the video that in half of the fights we normally have (especially as open field as showcased here) a dk not permablocking would be canned faster than i can write this sentence.

speaking of latency, leo is, and versus mostly oceanic players who all have bad ping. i find aussies generally dont take the game very srsly either, prolly partly bc of ping

*proceeds to play with the most srs salty aussie ever

Magıc · July 2017

DKsUnite wrote: »

Iyas wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

this is now a sorc theory crafting thread. NERF SORC IMO!

wanted to write the same but take it as free bumps for your thread

I edited the title so all bases are covered (Y)

Lmfao sorry dude.

Malamar1229 · July 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Alright, can confirm, delayed burst abilities like Meteor and Curse will take the spell damage of the bar on which they detonate, but the trait of the bar on which they were cast.

In other words, back bar Curse, Meteor...probably proxy and destro ult (I didn't test them specifically)...and other delayed damage abilities will NOT benefit from your sharpened front bar trait.

Guess I'm putting Curse front bar and Hardened back bar again... Feelsbad

@Magıc @Derra

Exact reason I play curse frontbar hardened backbar. I do feel more comfortable with hardened front bar ( mainly because of the lag spikes on EU & the amount of times CC break bugs out) but it's not worth the damage loss.

I like it because it allows me to merge my offensive and defensive windows some.

I also have a Master destro and vMA resto, but not the other way around.

Oh well, so much for that. The damage difference is too significant, agreed.

Edit, also when you went to cut my other quote and comment off the end of my post, you cut the /quote tag off the end. That's why your reply merged with your quote up there. I corrected it in my quote when I replied, but yea.

I run a master destro (vma rng is aids) but I run a random resto for the SD enchant.

And quoting on mobile is aids, that's why my quote *** up. I was too lazy to correct it.

Hmmmmmmm I do want to use a spell damage enchant now that you mention it... I used to do that with back bar 5pc Magnus. Not like a vMA resto does me any favors.

My next thought is that split 5pc sets + 2pc Undaunted might be the way to go instead of Amber + Willpower, which is what I've been using. Just having a dead staff feels inefficient, but is it really?

I like Lich + Riposte because I'm a Riposte fanboy, but that lacks damage and stamina sustain. Spinner + Lich has damage and magicka sustain but lacks stamina sustain. Spinner + Riposte has damage and op survivability, but lacks magicka and stamina sustain. Bloodthorn comes to mind for mixed sustain, but you don't get resources from it when kiting around, which you'll need on sorc. Engine is too inconsistent to rely too heavily on for magicka or stamina sustain imo. Also Willpower is just really strong if you can run a build with one 5pc set that doesn't have a glaring tradeoff versus another build with split 5pc sets on the staves.

I keep coming back to Amber + Willpower as the best of all three worlds. Have any ideas for other set combinations that could compete?

check my build video if you like Riposte. i use that and amberplasm.

That would rule out 2pc Undaunted, leave me with the 1pc destro bar that I'm trying to eliminate (since I don't have a vMA fire staff), and prevent me from wearing..........

My gut tells me Riposte is too op not to use on a shielding build, but I still wonder how best to incorporate it and if it's necessary to begin with. If I have the sustain to spam shields, I should probably just pump damage. Not sure yet. I'm looking forward to the experimentation!

It doesn't if you run wizard or amberplasm staves, then you can run 1 monster set.

Despite what Derra said (no offense) I love my monster sets but if any class can get away with not wearing them I think its a magicka sorc. Most our options are disappointing compared to our stam counterparts. Infernal guardian is awesome since its passive dps, but its damage is easily avoidable. Grothdar is just gtfo the way. I think EG is only good if you can make use of each resource proc (setups that use stam to feed magicka via DC).

My unbuffed spelldmg falls around 2200 so I compensate by running higher crit.

I just suggested it because I saw what you are seeking to achieve, and kiting is what I do on the regular.

Derra · July 2017

Malamar1229 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Alright, can confirm, delayed burst abilities like Meteor and Curse will take the spell damage of the bar on which they detonate, but the trait of the bar on which they were cast.

In other words, back bar Curse, Meteor...probably proxy and destro ult (I didn't test them specifically)...and other delayed damage abilities will NOT benefit from your sharpened front bar trait.

Guess I'm putting Curse front bar and Hardened back bar again... Feelsbad

@Magıc @Derra

Exact reason I play curse frontbar hardened backbar. I do feel more comfortable with hardened front bar ( mainly because of the lag spikes on EU & the amount of times CC break bugs out) but it's not worth the damage loss.

I like it because it allows me to merge my offensive and defensive windows some.

I also have a Master destro and vMA resto, but not the other way around.

Oh well, so much for that. The damage difference is too significant, agreed.

Edit, also when you went to cut my other quote and comment off the end of my post, you cut the /quote tag off the end. That's why your reply merged with your quote up there. I corrected it in my quote when I replied, but yea.

I run a master destro (vma rng is aids) but I run a random resto for the SD enchant.

And quoting on mobile is aids, that's why my quote *** up. I was too lazy to correct it.

Hmmmmmmm I do want to use a spell damage enchant now that you mention it... I used to do that with back bar 5pc Magnus. Not like a vMA resto does me any favors.

My next thought is that split 5pc sets + 2pc Undaunted might be the way to go instead of Amber + Willpower, which is what I've been using. Just having a dead staff feels inefficient, but is it really?

I like Lich + Riposte because I'm a Riposte fanboy, but that lacks damage and stamina sustain. Spinner + Lich has damage and magicka sustain but lacks stamina sustain. Spinner + Riposte has damage and op survivability, but lacks magicka and stamina sustain. Bloodthorn comes to mind for mixed sustain, but you don't get resources from it when kiting around, which you'll need on sorc. Engine is too inconsistent to rely too heavily on for magicka or stamina sustain imo. Also Willpower is just really strong if you can run a build with one 5pc set that doesn't have a glaring tradeoff versus another build with split 5pc sets on the staves.

I keep coming back to Amber + Willpower as the best of all three worlds. Have any ideas for other set combinations that could compete?

check my build video if you like Riposte. i use that and amberplasm.

That would rule out 2pc Undaunted, leave me with the 1pc destro bar that I'm trying to eliminate (since I don't have a vMA fire staff), and prevent me from wearing..........

My gut tells me Riposte is too op not to use on a shielding build, but I still wonder how best to incorporate it and if it's necessary to begin with. If I have the sustain to spam shields, I should probably just pump damage. Not sure yet. I'm looking forward to the experimentation!

It doesn't if you run wizard or amberplasm staves, then you can run 1 monster set.

Despite what Derra said (no offense) I love my monster sets but if any class can get away with not wearing them I think its a magicka sorc. Most our options are disappointing compared to our stam counterparts. Infernal guardian is awesome since its passive dps, but its damage is easily avoidable. Grothdar is just gtfo the way. I think EG is only good if you can make use of each resource proc (setups that use stam to feed magicka via DC).

My unbuffed spelldmg falls around 2200 so I compensate by running higher crit.

I just suggested it because I saw what you are seeking to achieve, and kiting is what I do on the regular.

If your infernal does not hit it´s a fault of playstyle though.
EG is a 100% safe bet (just dodge/block with stam procc saves you just about as much magica as a mag proc nets you).
Bloodspawn is retardedly strong on sorc.

Ishammael · July 2017

Derra wrote: »

Edit2: From my personal experience since the sustain nerf with morrowind alongside the bsw nerf only one setup utilizing 5 front 5 back 2 monster is truely vaible still and that´s 5 necro 2 shadowrend 5 lich.

Two questions:
1. Do you run any other pets or do you just rely on Shadowrend to proc Necro?
2. What is the uptime on the Shadowrend pet?

Derra · July 2017

Ishammael wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Edit2: From my personal experience since the sustain nerf with morrowind alongside the bsw nerf only one setup utilizing 5 front 5 back 2 monster is truely vaible still and that´s 5 necro 2 shadowrend 5 lich.

Two questions:
1. Do you run any other pets or do you just rely on Shadowrend to proc Necro?
2. What is the uptime on the Shadowrend pet?

Depends entirely on setup and what enemy you fight.
It´s beneficial to run entropy/mines as it proccs on any dmg.
I´m usually seeing around 50% uptime against targets where i can attack normally.

The_Duke · July 2017

DKsUnite wrote: »

this is now a sorc theory crafting thread. NERF SORC IMO!

Pretty crazy how fast this thread got derailed.