Xvorg wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

@LiquidPony

Huh?

How is it a buff if thats how it was before? It got majorly nerfed. Im saying just change it back ot what it always was. Cant see how thats considered a "buff"

The auto cast after gives most other classes with the burst heal the change to spam it as soon as they se their health get hit so unless its a finishing move, its been majorly majorly nerfed by 1) 5 light attacks to proc 2) the automatic recast animation that wastes a second

Majorly Nerfed? What? Allowing it to proc multiple times was a nerf?

Does not compute.

I have no idea what you're talking about with the "automatic recast animation." You hit 5 LAs to proc it, you proc it, you move on. There's no "automatic recast animation," although I'm having trouble parsing that second paragraph so maybe I'm just not understanding what you're trying to say.

Lol have you ever used that skill? As soon as you fire the bow, the skill automatically recasts but the animation happens too.
Meaning, you cant combine it with other skills straight away. You have to wait that 1 second for the animation to finish

Have you ever used that skill? I'm a magblade main and have never seen Grim Focus automatically recast itself after you fire it. Are you sure you're not just pressing the skill button too multiple times without realizing it?

yup, the cast is only once, Different is in he case of SA with its annoying recast after 10 secs

you mean 20 seconds and that it doesn't even interfere with any other skill?

Xvorg wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

@LiquidPony

Huh?

How is it a buff if thats how it was before? It got majorly nerfed. Im saying just change it back ot what it always was. Cant see how thats considered a "buff"

The auto cast after gives most other classes with the burst heal the change to spam it as soon as they se their health get hit so unless its a finishing move, its been majorly majorly nerfed by 1) 5 light attacks to proc 2) the automatic recast animation that wastes a second

Majorly Nerfed? What? Allowing it to proc multiple times was a nerf?

Does not compute.

I have no idea what you're talking about with the "automatic recast animation." You hit 5 LAs to proc it, you proc it, you move on. There's no "automatic recast animation," although I'm having trouble parsing that second paragraph so maybe I'm just not understanding what you're trying to say.

Lol have you ever used that skill? As soon as you fire the bow, the skill automatically recasts but the animation happens too.
Meaning, you cant combine it with other skills straight away. You have to wait that 1 second for the animation to finish

Have you ever used that skill? I'm a magblade main and have never seen Grim Focus automatically recast itself after you fire it. Are you sure you're not just pressing the skill button too multiple times without realizing it?

yup, the cast is only once, Different is in he case of SA with its annoying recast after 10 secs

you mean 20 seconds and that it doesn't even interfere with any other skill?

No, after 10 secs the char rises its weapon. In doesn't interrupts your skills, it's just annoying.

Having a buff tracker I think it's unnecesary

...??

Xvorg wrote: »

you cast it, then after 10 secs the char does an animation similar to the cast. IDK if it's just me or not.

I'm going to ask the obvious question and say did you cast it out of combat and see if you recast it at 10s? I find myself accidentally hitting it 2x out of habit.

SanTii.92 wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

This is insane. Mnbs are really strong right now on 1v1s and small scale, you can't just propose all this buffs without any trade off.

@SanTii.92

Exactly lol my first paragraph was lack of AOE. When youre fighting in a group what good is 1v1?

The other "buffs" were mechanics of how the skills work, *maybe* changing summon shade, and applying minor magicka steal to mark target.

Will not call changing grim focus to how it was before as a "buff" so im really not sure what you meant by "all these buffs"

Hmm what about these?

"mb10 wrote:

Return light/heavy attakcs for grim focus to proc to 3 or even 4.
Increase the speed of Cripple and Assasin's Blade.
Increase damage of the shadows from Summon Shade and maybe increase the time of Minor Maim as its only 4 seconds and single target.

Or, you know, those.

"mb10 wrote:

Apply minor magickasteal to Mark Target similar to how Elemental Drain works as they both debuff the target.

All combined are quite a lot of buffs for an already, argueable if you want, overperforming class. Give me a trade off and we can properly discuss about them.

Overperfoming? Lol? Just because you haven't figured out or read up on how to counter nightblades and keep dying to the best (or procciest) of them doesn't mean nightblades are over performing.

So easy to find sorcs trolling nightblade threads these days.

Kill the Sorc auto-execute and take away Dark Deal (trading one pool for another) and then you will feel Nightblade pain. We HAD a skill that gave back stamina and mag if you worked at it: Siphoning Attacks. Now you spend mag to get mag? Get outta here with that mess.
Also
Grim Focus doesn't auto recast - they changed it so you don't have to recast it immediately after you fire it. If you have a robotic perfect weave and don't have to move or dodge then MAYBE you can fire the bow again before the buff runs out.

My 2 cents.

Impale - fine, would be better with a scaled damage increase instead of fixed but acceptable

Lotus Fan - Damage is a bit low compared to stam version, should grant immunity to single target damage and knockback during transit

Mirage - 15% dodge without the bonuses associated with dodge roll builds is pretty useless

Reaper's Mark - fine

Merciless Resolve - 5 hits to trigger is very difficult to achieve in pvp due to the speed that opponents move, more often than not it run out before the proc and or trigger. Either needs a separate cooldown for assassins will so if you proc on 18 seconds you still have say 8 seconds to trigger, or change to percentage chance proc

---

Conclead Weapon - targeting in pvp seems broken

Dark Cloak - fine

Refreshing Path - fine, excellent burst speed and usefull DOT/HOT when used defensively

Manifestation of Terror - useless in pvp. Mass Hysteria is good defensively and in conjunection with teleport but Manifestation of Terror is a complete waste of a slot, by the time it arms, the battle has moved on. Should replace with a long range single target fear.

Shadow Image - Constantly double triggering in pvp due to lag, nice idea but just too awkward to use. Would be better if it were more like streak, on trigger u tp forward leaving a shadow image behind

---

Swallow Soul - Fine

Malific Wreath - Love it, but a bit clunky in pvp, damage should occur regardless of immunity to disable.

Crippling Grasp - Way to easy to dodge, only hits consistently when used immediately after teleport strike.

Siphoning Attacks - Fine

Sap Essence - Fine

Koolio wrote: »

seanj87 wrote: »

My 2 cents.

Impale - fine, would be better with a scaled damage increase instead of fixed but acceptable

Lotus Fan - Damage is a bit low compared to stam version, should grant immunity to single target damage and knockback during transit

Mirage - 15% dodge without the bonuses associated with dodge roll builds is pretty useless

Reaper's Mark - fine

Merciless Resolve - 5 hits to trigger is very difficult to achieve in pvp due to the speed that opponents move, more often than not it run out before the proc and or trigger. Either needs a separate cooldown for assassins will so if you proc on 18 seconds you still have say 8 seconds to trigger, or change to percentage chance proc

---

Conclead Weapon - targeting in pvp seems broken

Dark Cloak - fine

Refreshing Path - fine, excellent burst speed and usefull DOT/HOT when used defensively

Manifestation of Terror - useless in pvp. Mass Hysteria is good defensively and in conjunection with teleport but Manifestation of Terror is a complete waste of a slot, by the time it arms, the battle has moved on. Should replace with a long range single target fear.

Shadow Image - Constantly double triggering in pvp due to lag, nice idea but just too awkward to use. Would be better if it were more like streak, on trigger u tp forward leaving a shadow image behind

---

Swallow Soul - Fine

Malific Wreath - Love it, but a bit clunky in pvp, damage should occur regardless of immunity to disable.

Crippling Grasp - Way to easy to dodge, only hits consistently when used immediately after teleport strike.

Siphoning Attacks - Fine

Sap Essence - Fine

This is the most underrated move in the game. It's in a great spot right now too. Better than its ever been. If you want ranged sickle target CC use agony. This move couldn't be more useful in almost every situation. I can even use the other gear anymore.

I just dont see it myself, but each to there own, in pve i prefer volcanic rune as it does actual damage, stuns all in area not just 2/4, and doesnt spread the mobs out too much. Ive tried to like it, i really have!!

Koolio wrote: »

seanj87 wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

seanj87 wrote: »

My 2 cents.

Impale - fine, would be better with a scaled damage increase instead of fixed but acceptable

Lotus Fan - Damage is a bit low compared to stam version, should grant immunity to single target damage and knockback during transit

Mirage - 15% dodge without the bonuses associated with dodge roll builds is pretty useless

Reaper's Mark - fine

Merciless Resolve - 5 hits to trigger is very difficult to achieve in pvp due to the speed that opponents move, more often than not it run out before the proc and or trigger. Either needs a separate cooldown for assassins will so if you proc on 18 seconds you still have say 8 seconds to trigger, or change to percentage chance proc

---

Conclead Weapon - targeting in pvp seems broken

Dark Cloak - fine

Refreshing Path - fine, excellent burst speed and usefull DOT/HOT when used defensively

Manifestation of Terror - useless in pvp. Mass Hysteria is good defensively and in conjunection with teleport but Manifestation of Terror is a complete waste of a slot, by the time it arms, the battle has moved on. Should replace with a long range single target fear.

Shadow Image - Constantly double triggering in pvp due to lag, nice idea but just too awkward to use. Would be better if it were more like streak, on trigger u tp forward leaving a shadow image behind

---

Swallow Soul - Fine

Malific Wreath - Love it, but a bit clunky in pvp, damage should occur regardless of immunity to disable.

Crippling Grasp - Way to easy to dodge, only hits consistently when used immediately after teleport strike.

Siphoning Attacks - Fine

Sap Essence - Fine

This is the most underrated move in the game. It's in a great spot right now too. Better than its ever been. If you want ranged sickle target CC use agony. This move couldn't be more useful in almost every situation. I can even use the other gear anymore.

I just dont see it myself, but each to there own, in pve i prefer volcanic rune as it does actual damage, stuns all in area not just 2/4, and doesnt spread the mobs out too much. Ive tried to like it, i really have!!

It definitely took a week or two to really see what can be done with it. They are invisible to the enemy.

Sorc uses mines? Keep a fear circle in them.

Nightblade in stealth? place on ground and wait for them to gear feared while you use that GCD to kill.

Anyone following you? place one way in front. Furthest circle will fear people off of you when you get there and the second (At your feet) will fear anyone else following. Give you time to kill 1 by 1.

Breaches the first 4 (usually tanks/healers) get feared while you range them down/seige

Plus no one expects you to use this move. So I just stand with people coming at me and right when they attack FEAR. Since you don't actually move/cast animation they don't know when they will be feared. As opposed to EVERY other nightblade. Get close get feared.

This move works even better when used by multiple people. Me and a few friends lined up a Front door breach with about 10 of them. Needless to say that siege failed. 20 people at a time getting feared in oils.

Some fair points.

I think my biggest reason for not using it is my over use of Malefic Wreath. I love the long range instant disable it other when chasing down a herd of fleeing banana's. So having that on my bar makes another offensive disable a tad redundant. Mass Hysteria others a nice quick anti-gank which can be a life saver.

You've definitely made me consider re-testing though!

Hmmmm. Most of the complaints I see in this thread result from frustration and inexperience, or simply wanting one character to do everything equally as well as all the other classes, not from actual flaws with this class. There are a few valid points, though.

I can get behind a slight reduction in Sap's cost since it no longer interacts with Siphoning Attacks. It's still the best aoe spammable in the game for group PvP, so.....

Grim Focus used to require 4 light attacks, not 3. I can get behind reverting that change if ZOS makes Assassin's Will procs after the first (the new free ones) deal slightly less damage. Otherwise you're overly buffing an already strong ability compared to last patch's per-nerf version. Give PvEers their increased dps while leaving PvPers with an incentive to refresh the ability for harder burst.

Summon Shades could use a little spice, but Shadow Image is perfect. You have to remember that the Minor Maim debuff refreshes on each hit. Also the only thing buggy about the teleport is that the window to use it isn't extended by the Dark Veil passive like the shade itself. Mind its range, and plan ahead when using it.

Cripple is an extremely strong and annoying control ability. You can't make it faster. You can, however, rework or buff the other morph, Debilitate, including a projectile speed buff, since it has no root.

Siphoning Attacks has been nerfed in odd ways, but it's still one of the strongest sustain tools in the game. It does fit within the current state of the game.

Nightblade is intended to be a single target burst class which uses mobility and elusiveness to survive, not burst heals and raw mitigation. Keep this in mind when playing yours.

thankyourat wrote: »

So the main problem i see with magblade in open world is that merciless resolve has a cast time meaning not only do you have to proc it You have to be extra careful when you fire it. Its also a projectile so it's easy to avoid with out the cast time. I would like to see the cast time removed. Because even with a cc the player can break free and block before the bow actually hits because of the cast time. The cast time is kind of cool especially if you run your opponent out of stamina and let the cast animation play all the way through, but i do believe for magblade to be actually competitive as a solo class the cast time needs to be removed. Impale also makes me rage because of the ability to block cast heals or because when people get low health they just spam dodge, so to actually land impale you need to anticipate your opponents health dropping below 25% which is kind of weak because it can be cancelled with reflect, and it's dodgeable and blockable.

assassins will doesnt have a cast time

laksikus wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

So the main problem i see with magblade in open world is that merciless resolve has a cast time meaning not only do you have to proc it You have to be extra careful when you fire it. Its also a projectile so it's easy to avoid with out the cast time. I would like to see the cast time removed. Because even with a cc the player can break free and block before the bow actually hits because of the cast time. The cast time is kind of cool especially if you run your opponent out of stamina and let the cast animation play all the way through, but i do believe for magblade to be actually competitive as a solo class the cast time needs to be removed. Impale also makes me rage because of the ability to block cast heals or because when people get low health they just spam dodge, so to actually land impale you need to anticipate your opponents health dropping below 25% which is kind of weak because it can be cancelled with reflect, and it's dodgeable and blockable.

assassins will doesnt have a cast time

Cast Merciless, light attack 5 times, and read your new tooltip. The more you know.

casparian wrote: »

laksikus wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

So the main problem i see with magblade in open world is that merciless resolve has a cast time meaning not only do you have to proc it You have to be extra careful when you fire it. Its also a projectile so it's easy to avoid with out the cast time. I would like to see the cast time removed. Because even with a cc the player can break free and block before the bow actually hits because of the cast time. The cast time is kind of cool especially if you run your opponent out of stamina and let the cast animation play all the way through, but i do believe for magblade to be actually competitive as a solo class the cast time needs to be removed. Impale also makes me rage because of the ability to block cast heals or because when people get low health they just spam dodge, so to actually land impale you need to anticipate your opponents health dropping below 25% which is kind of weak because it can be cancelled with reflect, and it's dodgeable and blockable.

assassins will doesnt have a cast time

Yes it does. Read the tooltip. That plus the travel time (it doesn't instantly hit the target) lead to exactly the issues thankyourat describes.

Nearly no skill hits instand. The closer you are the faster the impact, works like every other skill

And It does Not have a cast time. It can be Animation camceled flawlessly. Not like attacks with a 1s cast time

TBH as much as I would like siphoning attacks reverted or sap essence cost reduction (though it's fun to watch bombers flop without magic) all I really want is a buff or reworking of concealed weapon to make it viable to use like it's counterpart.

SRASinister wrote: »

TBH as much as I would like siphoning attacks reverted or sap essence cost reduction (though it's fun to watch bombers flop without magic) all I really want is a buff or reworking of concealed weapon to make it viable to use like it's counterpart.

Idk man, this is my Concealed tooltip in a build with 2175 magicka regen, 1057 stamina regen, and Argonian...

Edit: no Continuous Attack.

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

SRASinister wrote: »

TBH as much as I would like siphoning attacks reverted or sap essence cost reduction (though it's fun to watch bombers flop without magic) all I really want is a buff or reworking of concealed weapon to make it viable to use like it's counterpart.

Idk man, this is my Concealed tooltip in a build with 2175 magicka regen, 1057 stamina regen, and Argonian...

Edit: no Continuous Attack.

@NightbladeMechanics CP or not?

Xvorg wrote: »

you cast it, then after 10 secs the char does an animation similar to the cast. IDK if it's just me or not.

@Xvorg it definitely happens to me on ps4. Happened yesterday while I was on my horse lol but it didn't take me off my mount