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Unlimited Aetherial Dust
-
Urkraft✭✭✭✭✭@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
If it is indeed found to be an exploit, can we please get perma bans for the offenders? This 3 day vacation and keeping ill gotten gains is getting old.Anne_Firehawk wrote: »They just gonna get a 3-day ban sadly and keep their exploited *** same as the *** who exploited AP
And the people who exploited the banked surveys, and on and on. History suggests that it's well worthwhile to jump on exploits like this, since Zeni will respond with the lightest possible slap on the wrist (a 3 day ban with a giggle and an "oh you") and you can come back after a relaxing weekend and enjoy your I'll-gotten millions.
Then ZOS supports exploiters.
Cos you, RIGHT NOW, can go to the stores (plenty of them), buy OBVIOUSLY duped items for ABSURDLY low prices, and not being afraid to get punishment for this.
And after all screams would be shuttled down, all "I quit" threads are closed, start reselling early bought stuff for any price you want, making millions of gold on the empty space. Or creating consumables from duped mats and selling that consumables.
Lol, ok tell us which Aetherial Dusts have been duped?
Everything is logged anyway, it takes a little more time than "instantly" to be able to tell who abused what.
sry, but buying up stacks of 25, 50 or 100 stacks. i am facepalming over the fact, that buyers, known powersellers, really think, they could make anybody believe, they didnt knew whats going on and that its suspicious....
Again,
ZOS looked at the data and nothing suspicious was found
You can think anything you want, but that doesn't make it a fact.
its obvious they were goldsellers/botters at least, its always obious when someone drops huge amounts of really rare items. wether its a group of scrapssellers, wether its someone who is able to drop each day 10 - 20 stacks of unrefined material. i am not thinking about a dupe. in the past people got banned for providing goldsellers with gold and for direct trading with goldsellers. everyone of the powersellers of belkarth is aware of what is going on.
Botters are a completely different argument than what is being argued.
There will always be botters and the only thing that can be done is just try and ban them quickly.
People are yelling at ZOS thinking there is some exploit where people are duping these or finding a way to get them super easily...which isn't the case.
I dont know wether its like that or not. I am not ZOS. But what I was aiming at was the fact, that this thing smelled fishy - regardless wether its botting or goldselling, and people were providing those accounts. And I clearly understand the thought, that it doesnt matter who buys or who doesnt buy, someone will buy and make profit out of it. While whole Belkarth is screaming and yelling about the bad bad goldselling bots, people still are buying and grabbing like ***, while ZOS is snoozing and ZOS staff doesnt even care or know about those accounts, even though they get reported. Ther eis a huge amount of people involved into this problem, from buyers which think its legitimate to buy, since they havent got tha tmuch time to play, to resellers, which provide those accounts with gold, over guild masters who do not care about wether their guilds are infected or not and provide those account space to sell to ZOS not reacting on support.
And as I said: Whoever wants to tell me, he didnt recognize that drops on Thursday afternoon/early evening were fishy, when he bought it, is lying.
Those people, who have enough gold to just grab it that moment, usually are experienced enough to know, when something like that smells fishy.
And thats a fact
Edited by Urkraft on July 3, 2017 4:24PM1 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭That's the problem with all black box systems. You can't verify if something claimed is true or not because you cannot discern the process and the probability. I still remember though how long it took ZOS to admit that surveys could be exploited and to act on it. I vividly remember that AP swapping was declared an exploit a week after the double AP event ended and ZOS did nothing before that. On top of that, if it's something that cannot be fixed easily, they wouldn't acknowledge an exploit either.
It might be just a conspiracy theory. It might be just bots and gold sellers. We don't know. But I'm taking everything ZOS states with a grain of salt. Past occurrences show that it's a wise thing to do so.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.3 -
supaskrub✭✭✭✭✭@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
If it is indeed found to be an exploit, can we please get perma bans for the offenders? This 3 day vacation and keeping ill gotten gains is getting old.Anne_Firehawk wrote: »They just gonna get a 3-day ban sadly and keep their exploited *** same as the *** who exploited AP
And the people who exploited the banked surveys, and on and on. History suggests that it's well worthwhile to jump on exploits like this, since Zeni will respond with the lightest possible slap on the wrist (a 3 day ban with a giggle and an "oh you") and you can come back after a relaxing weekend and enjoy your I'll-gotten millions.
Then ZOS supports exploiters.
Cos you, RIGHT NOW, can go to the stores (plenty of them), buy OBVIOUSLY duped items for ABSURDLY low prices, and not being afraid to get punishment for this.
And after all screams would be shuttled down, all "I quit" threads are closed, start reselling early bought stuff for any price you want, making millions of gold on the empty space. Or creating consumables from duped mats and selling that consumables.
Lol, ok tell us which Aetherial Dusts have been duped?
Everything is logged anyway, it takes a little more time than "instantly" to be able to tell who abused what.
sry, but buying up stacks of 25, 50 or 100 stacks. i am facepalming over the fact, that buyers, known powersellers, really think, they could make anybody believe, they didnt knew whats going on and that its suspicious....
Again,
ZOS looked at the data and nothing suspicious was found
You can think anything you want, but that doesn't make it a fact.
That depends entirely on how you analyze the data, lets say for example that you just ran a query to look at the drop rate percentage of the dust collected against harvested nodes you would expect (if nothing untoward is happening) that the returned information would be within expectations if no duplicating is happening.
Now if a query is made that targets between (for the sake of arguement) seven day periods over the last thirteen weeks you would still expect the returned data to be within expectations as regards drop rates (again if no duplicating is happening) but if just one of those seven day periods shows a huge increase in the amount of nodes harvested then that should set alarm bells ringing despite the fact that the percentage drop rate stayed within the boundaries.
Here is what ZOS said
Beyond that, we looked at how many Aetherial Dust players have obtained daily over the course of the past two months on each server and how they obtained it. There is a possible (statistical) maximum that players can obtain via normal methods and no one has exceeded that. Now, something we are seeing is a few people buying low, selling high, and essentially cornering the market. This is resulting in what looks like someone having far more of a rare item than they should, but when we dug into how they got the items, we’re not seeing anything abnormal that would suggest item duping or an exploit.
Yes i know what they said, I've been following this thread closely, like I say its not the data that you analyze its HOW you analyze the variables that will determine the results, buying low and flipping items happens all the time (heck only yesterday i bought one aetheric dust on xbox eu for 10k via chat, that was the price the seller wanted and i broke my arm to pay it, for my own use). But does this really look like someone bought 100's of dust at super low prices over a period of time to just bulk sell at super low prices when they have a 200 stack of it? when common sense tells you that if you buy it super low you don't hoard it, you get it sold asap at slightly less than the market average for a big quick profit? The drop rate of dust is not high enough for the majority of players to sell at super low prices and whatsmore i dare say 80%+ of players actually know what the market value for dust is which makes it even more less probable. Now if someone said that bot accounts are laundering the dust through selling it at 5-10k per item and mailing it to only a specific few accounts to make it appear as legitimately selling low when infact its just keeping it in the loop then that i would say is more plausible.Edited by supaskrub on July 3, 2017 4:29PM2 -
Urkraft✭✭✭✭✭ZOS did nothing before that. On top of that, if it's something that cannot be fixed easily, they wouldn't acknowledge an exploit either.
I even remember someone from ZOS stating, that the amount of AP gained by this exploit wasnt higher than usual or sthg like that. Before the bonus week. Or am i wrong and read something wrong there?1 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS did nothing before that. On top of that, if it's something that cannot be fixed easily, they wouldn't acknowledge an exploit either.
I even remember someone from ZOS stating, that the amount of AP gained by this exploit wasnt higher than usual or sthg like that. Before the bonus week. Or am i wrong and read something wrong there?
Correct. @ZOS_BrianWheeler pulled data from the NA server which were totally misleading. They seemed to have no clue even after people repeatedly told them what was going on. So ZOS analyzing data doesn't mean that much.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.3 -
Urkraft✭✭✭✭✭ZOS did nothing before that. On top of that, if it's something that cannot be fixed easily, they wouldn't acknowledge an exploit either.
I even remember someone from ZOS stating, that the amount of AP gained by this exploit wasnt higher than usual or sthg like that. Before the bonus week. Or am i wrong and read something wrong there?
Correct. @ZOS_BrianWheeler pulled data from the NA server which were totally misleading. They seemed to have no clue even after people repeatedly told them what was going on. So ZOS analyzing data doesn't mean that much.
This was something which especially made me angry about the banwave later. If ZOS communicated fast, its not okay, it wouldnt have been ended that bad as it did, people would have been scared of actions, instea dof that ZOS just talked about it as if its no prob and more and more people did and fell into that "loop". Then bamm banwave, after the double AP event. Its like putting up a trap for players to get as many as possible caught. (And no, i never have been visiting PVP that time nor was one my trading guilds center of AP-selling.) But same ZOS is doing since months with its noaction against the goldsellers/bots.
Edited by Urkraft on July 3, 2017 4:38PM1 -
zyk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What's damning about this incident is that it demonstrates ZOS does very little monitoring of ESO's economy. It should have systems in place to detect huge stockpiles of valuable mats and dumps.
This is really easy stuff to implement if the will is there. It's not.
ZOS seems to do the bare minimum necessary for most things. I think somewhere in the ZOS leadership hierarchy is a toxic miser who disallows projects the resources they need to be successful. So much of this game feels rushed and half-assed despite an apparent abundance of talent.5 -
KingMagaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭This was something which especially made me angry about the banwave later. If ZOS communicated fast, its not okay, it wouldnt have been ended that bad as it did, people would have been scared of actions, instea dof that ZOS just talked about it as if its no prob and more and more people did and fell into that "loop". Then bamm banwave, after the double AP event. Its like putting up a trap for players to get as many as possible caught. (And no, i never have been visiting PVP that time nor was one my trading guilds center of AP-selling.) But same ZOS is doing since months with its noaction against the goldsellers/bots.
I agree with your statement here in the same way Z0$ neglect the Cheating and Exploiting thread. By Z0$ not posting in this thread and being 'current' they ignore this thread and look complacent.
More and more exploit on ESO because of the lack of action/communication from Z0$. That and handing out suspensions doesn't deter anyone from exploiting. I honestly think Z0$ are simply incapable of handling a game like ESO.
1 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Additionally i would like to add this is mostly on Z0$ for rushing out untested content that is obviously wide open to exploitation. Every achievement/Dungeon/Title/Leader board has been exploited, multiple times on some. ESO stopped being competitive when CE was first shown to the sheep and exploiters got suspensions (Should of been perma ban).
Um, no. They are not "rushing out untested content". It is all tested. Tested quite a bit.
I assume you are not involved in software development. If you were, you would have a lot of experience spending a lot of resources on testing and then watching customers report all sorts of bugs post-release.
While I do respect people's feelings regarding exploiters, few exploits matter beyond people trying to be more impressive than other people. Infinite ultimate was an exploit that truly harmed the game in a profound way. Item duplication is similar, due to the amount of wealth in generated for the exploiters. But achievements? Titles? Meh. If that stuff bothers people, they are doomed to dissatisfaction anyway.2 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭An item duping scandal would be the nail in the coffin for ESO, doubtful Z0$ would admit to such.
What Z0$ statement actually reads is this:
The drop rate of the dust is x%. By using a 'rough' average of players over the course of ydays. This number is checking out to how many dust were discovered or used or in game atm (Z0$ never specified which, though each impacts the others results).
There is as many flaws in this sentiment as there are in ESO. They are basing there numbers on RNG and depending on the time frame the result might not even be accurate at all.
Once again being non transparent and patting the sheep on the head does little to convince me anything was seriously looked into because why would you believe a random company with its own motives just stating something.
If a person you met said something random, you enquired about the information they are presenting as factual and they eyeball you back. What in this example warrants any faith in what was presented as fact?.
There is a lot of wiggle room in claiming the drop levels are in line with expectations considering that any result can be from randomness. Every opportunity for dust could randomly give dust for one week. It would be an extreme outlier event, and we can say that the chances of that happening due to randomness are X, where X is miniscule. So they would have to determine a threshold for X where anything below that will be attributed to the system not working as intended. You need to be careful to not make the threshold so high that there are a lot of false alarms -- especially if you start applying this analysis to individuals, which lowers the sample size. increases the number of results, and increases the chances of extreme outlier results.0 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
If it is indeed found to be an exploit, can we please get perma bans for the offenders? This 3 day vacation and keeping ill gotten gains is getting old.Anne_Firehawk wrote: »They just gonna get a 3-day ban sadly and keep their exploited *** same as the *** who exploited AP
And the people who exploited the banked surveys, and on and on. History suggests that it's well worthwhile to jump on exploits like this, since Zeni will respond with the lightest possible slap on the wrist (a 3 day ban with a giggle and an "oh you") and you can come back after a relaxing weekend and enjoy your I'll-gotten millions.
Then ZOS supports exploiters.
Cos you, RIGHT NOW, can go to the stores (plenty of them), buy OBVIOUSLY duped items for ABSURDLY low prices, and not being afraid to get punishment for this.
And after all screams would be shuttled down, all "I quit" threads are closed, start reselling early bought stuff for any price you want, making millions of gold on the empty space. Or creating consumables from duped mats and selling that consumables.
Lol, ok tell us which Aetherial Dusts have been duped?
Everything is logged anyway, it takes a little more time than "instantly" to be able to tell who abused what.
sry, but buying up stacks of 25, 50 or 100 stacks. i am facepalming over the fact, that buyers, known powersellers, really think, they could make anybody believe, they didnt knew whats going on and that its suspicious....
Again,
ZOS looked at the data and nothing suspicious was found
You can think anything you want, but that doesn't make it a fact.
That depends entirely on how you analyze the data, lets say for example that you just ran a query to look at the drop rate percentage of the dust collected against harvested nodes you would expect (if nothing untoward is happening) that the returned information would be within expectations if no duplicating is happening.
Now if a query is made that targets between (for the sake of arguement) seven day periods over the last thirteen weeks you would still expect the returned data to be within expectations as regards drop rates (again if no duplicating is happening) but if just one of those seven day periods shows a huge increase in the amount of nodes harvested then that should set alarm bells ringing despite the fact that the percentage drop rate stayed within the boundaries.
Here is what ZOS said
Beyond that, we looked at how many Aetherial Dust players have obtained daily over the course of the past two months on each server and how they obtained it. There is a possible (statistical) maximum that players can obtain via normal methods and no one has exceeded that. Now, something we are seeing is a few people buying low, selling high, and essentially cornering the market. This is resulting in what looks like someone having far more of a rare item than they should, but when we dug into how they got the items, we’re not seeing anything abnormal that would suggest item duping or an exploit.
Yes i know what they said, I've been following this thread closely, like I say its not the data that you analyze its HOW you analyze the variables that will determine the results, buying low and flipping items happens all the time (heck only yesterday i bought one aetheric dust on xbox eu for 10k via chat, that was the price the seller wanted and i broke my arm to pay it, for my own use). But does this really look like someone bought 100's of dust at super low prices over a period of time to just bulk sell at super low prices when they have a 200 stack of it? when common sense tells you that if you buy it super low you don't hoard it, you get it sold asap at slightly less than the market average for a big quick profit? The drop rate of dust is not high enough for the majority of players to sell at super low prices and whatsmore i dare say 80%+ of players actually know what the market value for dust is which makes it even more less probable. Now if someone said that bot accounts are laundering the dust through selling it at 5-10k per item and mailing it to only a specific few accounts to make it appear as legitimately selling low when infact its just keeping it in the loop then that i would say is more plausible.
Majority of players probably don't even know what the dust is, let alone know what it sells for.0 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭What's damning about this incident is that it demonstrates ZOS does very little monitoring of ESO's economy. It should have systems in place to detect huge stockpiles of valuable mats and dumps.
This is really easy stuff to implement if the will is there. It's not.
ZOS seems to do the bare minimum necessary for most things. I think somewhere in the ZOS leadership hierarchy is a toxic miser who disallows projects the resources they need to be successful. So much of this game feels rushed and half-assed despite an apparent abundance of talent.
Are you saying other games monitor like that?0 -
LonePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭So this dust and the associated cipher are actually items you can obtain the game are not just some fantasies people concocted via fake item links published in zone chat?
These drop rates are obscenely if not criminally low if so many players have not collected either one after countless hours of gameplay.2 -
KingMagaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭DaveMoeDee wrote: »Additionally i would like to add this is mostly on Z0$ for rushing out untested content that is obviously wide open to exploitation. Every achievement/Dungeon/Title/Leader board has been exploited, multiple times on some. ESO stopped being competitive when CE was first shown to the sheep and exploiters got suspensions (Should of been perma ban).
Um, no. They are not "rushing out untested content". It is all tested. Tested quite a bit.
I assume you are not involved in software development. If you were, you would have a lot of experience spending a lot of resources on testing and then watching customers report all sorts of bugs post-release.
While I do respect people's feelings regarding exploiters, few exploits matter beyond people trying to be more impressive than other people. Infinite ultimate was an exploit that truly harmed the game in a profound way. Item duplication is similar, due to the amount of wealth in generated for the exploiters. But achievements? Titles? Meh. If that stuff bothers people, they are doomed to dissatisfaction anyway.
I work in the aerospace industry, mainly cables. On developing software on commission then providing technical support in any area throughout the manufacturing, testing and deployment.
The first time i make a mistake the repercussions are severe. I have no time to excuse incompetence on any level, from myself or others - justify it personally as you will.
Most people i know play PTS to gain an advantage on release. I dont know a single person who pays an employer to work for them so if any bugs/exploits are found, it's a coin toss to whether the player reports or keeps for themselves.
Also it is not logical to devalue why others play the game. Some play for achievements, some play to be competitive in Leader boards, some play PvP where nights have been ruined due to exploitation on them. If your serious in your stance of Z0$ testing the content thoroughly then i can only conclude your new or not aware of many of the exploits.
Couple that with the fact of Battlegrounds most recently. Designed/Tested/PTS/Released early to more players pre-order/Released to public -> Still badly broken. Your statement doesnt hold in the face of these facts, not to me anyway.DaveMoeDee wrote: »An item duping scandal would be the nail in the coffin for ESO, doubtful Z0$ would admit to such.
What Z0$ statement actually reads is this:
The drop rate of the dust is x%. By using a 'rough' average of players over the course of ydays. This number is checking out to how many dust were discovered or used or in game atm (Z0$ never specified which, though each impacts the others results).
There is as many flaws in this sentiment as there are in ESO. They are basing there numbers on RNG and depending on the time frame the result might not even be accurate at all.
Once again being non transparent and patting the sheep on the head does little to convince me anything was seriously looked into because why would you believe a random company with its own motives just stating something.
If a person you met said something random, you enquired about the information they are presenting as factual and they eyeball you back. What in this example warrants any faith in what was presented as fact?.
There is a lot of wiggle room in claiming the drop levels are in line with expectations considering that any result can be from randomness. Every opportunity for dust could randomly give dust for one week. It would be an extreme outlier event, and we can say that the chances of that happening due to randomness are X, where X is miniscule. So they would have to determine a threshold for X where anything below that will be attributed to the system not working as intended. You need to be careful to not make the threshold so high that there are a lot of false alarms -- especially if you start applying this analysis to individuals, which lowers the sample size. increases the number of results, and increases the chances of extreme outlier results.
To simplify: We dont know what data they used or what margins and they have been incorrect in the past. If someone states something as fact and another party enquiries into how this fact was reached yet no data is given and has been incorrect in the past:
I dont see why anyone would be satisfied with a pat on the head at this stage of ESO.1 -
Roovin✭✭✭An item duping scandal would be the nail in the coffin for ESO, doubtful Z0$ would admit to such.
What Z0$ statement actually reads is this:
The drop rate of the dust is x%. By using a 'rough' average of players over the course of ydays. This number is checking out to how many dust were discovered or used or in game atm (Z0$ never specified which, though each impacts the others results).
There is as many flaws in this sentiment as there are in ESO. They are basing there numbers on RNG and depending on the time frame the result might not even be accurate at all.
Once again being non transparent and patting the sheep on the head does little to convince me anything was seriously looked into because why would you believe a random company with its own motives just stating something.
If a person you met said something random, you enquired about the information they are presenting as factual and they eyeball you back. What in this example warrants any faith in what was presented as fact?.
And here's a conspiracy theorist.
Analyzing big data you can see obvious trends which would stick out like a sore thumb. ZOS looked at everything and it all looked fine.
Looking at the days does not show if they were obtained via botting which could absolutely be the case.
The people who run the bots could have easily saved up everything, dumped it on the market, bought everything they dumped back up which would then drop the price on everyone else's dust and then they could snatch it back up.0 -
Immortal_Dark410✭✭✭✭Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
If it is indeed found to be an exploit, can we please get perma bans for the offenders? This 3 day vacation and keeping ill gotten gains is getting old.Anne_Firehawk wrote: »They just gonna get a 3-day ban sadly and keep their exploited *** same as the *** who exploited AP
And the people who exploited the banked surveys, and on and on. History suggests that it's well worthwhile to jump on exploits like this, since Zeni will respond with the lightest possible slap on the wrist (a 3 day ban with a giggle and an "oh you") and you can come back after a relaxing weekend and enjoy your I'll-gotten millions.
Then ZOS supports exploiters.
Cos you, RIGHT NOW, can go to the stores (plenty of them), buy OBVIOUSLY duped items for ABSURDLY low prices, and not being afraid to get punishment for this.
And after all screams would be shuttled down, all "I quit" threads are closed, start reselling early bought stuff for any price you want, making millions of gold on the empty space. Or creating consumables from duped mats and selling that consumables.
Lol, ok tell us which Aetherial Dusts have been duped?
Everything is logged anyway, it takes a little more time than "instantly" to be able to tell who abused what.
sry, but buying up stacks of 25, 50 or 100 stacks. i am facepalming over the fact, that buyers, known powersellers, really think, they could make anybody believe, they didnt knew whats going on and that its suspicious....
Again,
ZOS looked at the data and nothing suspicious was found
You can think anything you want, but that doesn't make it a fact.
That just means nobody is duping. The far more likely solution is something like hordes of bot trains farming up the vast majority of aetherial dust in the game at the moment, which is in a sense just as problematic. It seems far harder to catch a botter and put them permanently out of commission than it is to catch one singular person who is abusing a bug.
True but you also have to realize that @Zos_JessicaFolsom said that they found gold sellers (who prob used bots) and Banned them in this thread itself. lol so in the end its being taken care of. Whether we as a community choose to believe it or not. The statement has been made. I for one will choose to believe it because im not going to say that she or ZOS are liar'sRetired Guild Leader Of AMAZING DEALS OF TAMRIEL
Retired Guild Leader Of AMAZING DEALS OF NIRN
(ALL FACTION TRADE GUILDS)
PC NA SERVER
DC - DARKDROGO | ORC | STAM DK | LVL 50 | CP 1285
AD - DARK-GEARLT-OF-RIVIA | ALTMER | MAG SORC | LVL 50 | CP 1285
EP - DARK-ABYSS | DUNMER | MAG TEMP | LVL 50 | CP 1285
DC - REAPERS-CLOACK-OF-YASSASEEN | BRETON | MAG NB | LVL 50 | CP 1285
AD - DARK-SLADE-WILSON | KHAJIIT | STAM NB | LVL 50 | CP 585
AD - THE-LAST-DRUID-OF-PARANOR | ALTMER | MAG DK | LVL 50 | CP 1285
AD - GALADRIEL-LADY OF LIGHT | IMPERIAL | STAM SORC | LVL 50 | CP 1285
CONSOLE PS5 NA SERVER AS WELL0 -
Gargath✭✭✭✭✭
✭Who cares how many dusts have other players. I didn't find a single one in my 1,5 year eso playing time and subscribing. Even if I had found one, the cost of aetherial drink is like 15k gold and it gives just 2x more exp than an old-fashioned psijic ambrosia which costs 5x less than aetherial. I'll never buy any aetherial thingy to raise my xp, it's one of those super overpriced items everyone desire but only singles can afford no one knows why. The whole aetherial idea was badly designed since the beggining.PC EU (PL): 14 characters. ESO player since 06.08.2015. Farkas finest quote: "Some people don't think I'm smart. Those people get my fist. But you, I like."1 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭DaveMoeDee wrote: »Additionally i would like to add this is mostly on Z0$ for rushing out untested content that is obviously wide open to exploitation. Every achievement/Dungeon/Title/Leader board has been exploited, multiple times on some. ESO stopped being competitive when CE was first shown to the sheep and exploiters got suspensions (Should of been perma ban).
Um, no. They are not "rushing out untested content". It is all tested. Tested quite a bit.
I assume you are not involved in software development. If you were, you would have a lot of experience spending a lot of resources on testing and then watching customers report all sorts of bugs post-release.
While I do respect people's feelings regarding exploiters, few exploits matter beyond people trying to be more impressive than other people. Infinite ultimate was an exploit that truly harmed the game in a profound way. Item duplication is similar, due to the amount of wealth in generated for the exploiters. But achievements? Titles? Meh. If that stuff bothers people, they are doomed to dissatisfaction anyway.
I work in the aerospace industry, mainly cables. On developing software on commission then providing technical support in any area throughout the manufacturing, testing and deployment.
The first time i make a mistake the repercussions are severe. I have no time to excuse incompetence on any level, from myself or others - justify it personally as you will.
Most people i know play PTS to gain an advantage on release. I dont know a single person who pays an employer to work for them so if any bugs/exploits are found, it's a coin toss to whether the player reports or keeps for themselves.
Also it is not logical to devalue why others play the game. Some play for achievements, some play to be competitive in Leader boards, some play PvP where nights have been ruined due to exploitation on them. If your serious in your stance of Z0$ testing the content thoroughly then i can only conclude your new or not aware of many of the exploits.
Couple that with the fact of Battlegrounds most recently. Designed/Tested/PTS/Released early to more players pre-order/Released to public -> Still badly broken. Your statement doesnt hold in the face of these facts, not to me anyway.DaveMoeDee wrote: »An item duping scandal would be the nail in the coffin for ESO, doubtful Z0$ would admit to such.
What Z0$ statement actually reads is this:
The drop rate of the dust is x%. By using a 'rough' average of players over the course of ydays. This number is checking out to how many dust were discovered or used or in game atm (Z0$ never specified which, though each impacts the others results).
There is as many flaws in this sentiment as there are in ESO. They are basing there numbers on RNG and depending on the time frame the result might not even be accurate at all.
Once again being non transparent and patting the sheep on the head does little to convince me anything was seriously looked into because why would you believe a random company with its own motives just stating something.
If a person you met said something random, you enquired about the information they are presenting as factual and they eyeball you back. What in this example warrants any faith in what was presented as fact?.
There is a lot of wiggle room in claiming the drop levels are in line with expectations considering that any result can be from randomness. Every opportunity for dust could randomly give dust for one week. It would be an extreme outlier event, and we can say that the chances of that happening due to randomness are X, where X is miniscule. So they would have to determine a threshold for X where anything below that will be attributed to the system not working as intended. You need to be careful to not make the threshold so high that there are a lot of false alarms -- especially if you start applying this analysis to individuals, which lowers the sample size. increases the number of results, and increases the chances of extreme outlier results.
To simplify: We dont know what data they used or what margins and they have been incorrect in the past. If someone states something as fact and another party enquiries into how this fact was reached yet no data is given and has been incorrect in the past:
I dont see why anyone would be satisfied with a pat on the head at this stage of ESO.
Obviously Aerospace needs stricter testing and there is budgeting for that. Apples and oranges. If games required testing as strict as that, our games would all be very basic and uninteresting.
My point in the second post was to agree how weak their response was.2 -
KingMagaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭DaveMoeDee wrote: »Obviously Aerospace needs stricter testing and there is budgeting for that. Apples and oranges. If games required testing as strict as that, our games would all be very basic and uninteresting.
If your saying that my company has more capital to spend, on any products than Z0$ then i can clear that up. They dont. The company i work for has a smaller budget that Z0$ and while some can say this budget scales then i can accept that but from going from 0 mistakes in ~2 years i have made to the exploited AAA game i see, then this hardly scales either.
People can justify what they want and believe what they want. Thats why we have science and maths for factual information and if said information is ever challenged then to prove it is a pleasure, from a science point of view. Z0$ releases nothing and people are gullible to believe something without proof especially when the person presenting said facts has a direct bias in it.
Z0$ AP exploit they released and compared wrong figures, explained and was pointed out/corrected. Now this information cannot be incorrect?
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zyk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DaveMoeDee wrote: »What's damning about this incident is that it demonstrates ZOS does very little monitoring of ESO's economy. It should have systems in place to detect huge stockpiles of valuable mats and dumps.
This is really easy stuff to implement if the will is there. It's not.
ZOS seems to do the bare minimum necessary for most things. I think somewhere in the ZOS leadership hierarchy is a toxic miser who disallows projects the resources they need to be successful. So much of this game feels rushed and half-assed despite an apparent abundance of talent.
Are you saying other games monitor like that?
I presume many developers do. At least those who are serious about mitigating gold selling. Auditing economic data would be an essential part of that.
I consider the virtual economy to be a major feature in a game like this. I expect developers to take cheating in the trading metagame as seriously as any other. Of course, ZOS does not take any kind of cheating as seriously as many of us think they should.3 -
Roovin✭✭✭DaveMoeDee wrote: »What's damning about this incident is that it demonstrates ZOS does very little monitoring of ESO's economy. It should have systems in place to detect huge stockpiles of valuable mats and dumps.
This is really easy stuff to implement if the will is there. It's not.
ZOS seems to do the bare minimum necessary for most things. I think somewhere in the ZOS leadership hierarchy is a toxic miser who disallows projects the resources they need to be successful. So much of this game feels rushed and half-assed despite an apparent abundance of talent.
Are you saying other games monitor like that?
I presume many developers do. At least those who are serious about mitigating gold selling. Auditing economic data would be an essential part of that.
I consider the virtual economy to be a major feature in a game like this. I expect developers to take cheating in the trading metagame as seriously as any other. Of course, ZOS does not take any kind of cheating as seriously as many of us think they should.
If you presume that, why is gold selling a problem in every mmo?0 -
ScytheNL✭✭✭✭letsdothedungeonslow wrote: »Is it possible this is also why I can't find any Nirncrux after dozens of hours of trying?
I ran collected 2 within less than an hour yesterday, so it *does* drop. Probably just another RNG stupidity.
I have found one sofar (CP 210). It's rare.Ingame:
Ezekiel Zakriah, Redguard Nightblade
Xbox One, GT= Scythe NL0 -
SilverWF✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yesterday I've found my very first Dust - from ordinary Jute bush.
Don't tell me BS about hundreds of Dust, collected just by bots, please.- PC EU. Ebonheart Pact. CP 1k+
- YouTube: All ESO disguises (2014)
- EU players are humans too! We want our maintenances in the least pop time (at deep night) and not lasted for several hours!
- Animation canceR - is true PvP cancer! When you can't see which actions your opponent do - you can't react properly on them!
0 -
ScytheNL✭✭✭✭ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Now, something we are seeing is a few people buying low, selling high, and essentially cornering the market.
Wait, so... Selling an item 70% under the 'normal' value is considered 'Selling high'? What would you consider 'Selling low' then? Giving them away for free?Ingame:
Ezekiel Zakriah, Redguard Nightblade
Xbox One, GT= Scythe NL2 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Now, something we are seeing is a few people buying low, selling high, and essentially cornering the market.
Wait, so... Selling an item 70% under the 'normal' value is considered 'Selling high'? What would you consider 'Selling low' then? Giving them away for free?
Those people selling really low are obviously not the people buying low and selling high. The 70% under normal value would be the buying low part. Keep in mind that the "normal value" is subjective. On one hand, it is raised by the people trying to corner the market by selling high, and on the other hand, it is lowered by people selling cheaply in the hope of making some gold from those trying to corner the market. If the people Jessica refers to stop buying, then the 70% discount becomes the new normal.
Keep in mind that there is nothing wrong with selling something significantly lower than "normal". There is also nothing wrong with buying this stuff and selling it for more.
If there is anything wrong happening, from a ToS perspective, it lies in the motive, not the actions.XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus2 -
Insomnia rex✭✭✭DaveMoeDee wrote: »What's damning about this incident is that it demonstrates ZOS does very little monitoring of ESO's economy. It should have systems in place to detect huge stockpiles of valuable mats and dumps.
This is really easy stuff to implement if the will is there. It's not.
ZOS seems to do the bare minimum necessary for most things. I think somewhere in the ZOS leadership hierarchy is a toxic miser who disallows projects the resources they need to be successful. So much of this game feels rushed and half-assed despite an apparent abundance of talent.
Are you saying other games monitor like that?
EVE . But it has been dying for quite a while so i hear.. CP630 AR20 PC EU, Alt Mag Sorc AD - Insomnicia Rex0 -
ScytheNL✭✭✭✭lordrichter wrote: »ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »Now, something we are seeing is a few people buying low, selling high, and essentially cornering the market.
Wait, so... Selling an item 70% under the 'normal' value is considered 'Selling high'? What would you consider 'Selling low' then? Giving them away for free?
Those people selling really low are obviously not the people buying low and selling high. The 70% under normal value would be the buying low part. Keep in mind that the "normal value" is subjective. On one hand, it is raised by the people trying to corner the market by selling high, and on the other hand, it is lowered by people selling cheaply in the hope of making some gold from those trying to corner the market. If the people Jessica refers to stop buying, then the 70% discount becomes the new normal.
Keep in mind that there is nothing wrong with selling something significantly lower than "normal". There is also nothing wrong with buying this stuff and selling it for more.
If there is anything wrong happening, from a ToS perspective, it lies in the motive, not the actions.
Yeah, but that still doesn't explain why someone would flood the market with stuff WELL under the marketvalue? Who in their right mind would do such a thing? Well: Except if they duped the stuff anyway.
And 'nobody is exceeding the virtual max for Dust'. Seriously? That means they got the virtual max wrong, since people on here have been playing for three years and have farmed maybe two or 3 dust, while these people have acquired HUNDREDS. Something is wrong here, one way or the other, left or right. No way in hell is this business as usual.Ingame:
Ezekiel Zakriah, Redguard Nightblade
Xbox One, GT= Scythe NL0 -
Asardes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Dust has only been in game for about 8 months - was introduced shortly after One Tamriel patch, along with the Tel Var alchemy parcels - so playing for 2-3 years means absolutely nothing.Beta tester since February 2014, played ESO-TU October 2015 - August 2022, currently on an extended break
vMA (The Flawless Conqueror) | vVH (Spirit Slayer & of the Undying Song) | vDSA | vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vMoL | vAS+1 | Emperor
PC-EU CP 3000+
41,000+ Achievement Points before High IsleMember of:
Pact Veteran Trade: Exemplary
Traders of the Covenant: God of Sales
Tamriels Emporium: God of Sales
Valinor Overflow: Trader
The Traveling Merchant: Silver
Characters:
Asardes | 50 Nord Dragonknight | EP AR 50 | Master Crafter: all traits & recipes, all styles released before High Isle
Alxaril Nelcarion | 50 High Elf Sorcerer | AD AR 20 |
Dro'Bear Three-paws | 50 Khajiit Nightblade | AD AR 20 |
Veronique Nicole | 50 Breton Templar | DC AR 20 |
Sabina Flavia Cosades | 50 Imperial Warden | EP AR 20 |
Ervesa Neloren | 50 Dark Elf Dragonknight | EP AR 20 |
Fendar Khodwin | 50 Redguard Sorcerer | DC AR 20 |
Surilanwe of Lillandril | 50 High Elf Nightblade | AD AR 20 |
Joleen the Swift | 50 Redguard Templar | DC AR 20 |
Draynor Telvanni | 50 Dark Elf Warden | EP AR 20 |
Claudius Tharn | 50 Necromancer | DC AR 20 |
Nazura-la the Bonedancer | 50 Necromancer | AD AR 20 |
Tharkul gro-Shug | 50 Orc Dragonknight | DC AR 4 |
Ushruka gra-Lhurgash | 50 Orc Sorcerer | AD AR 4 |
Cienwen ferch Llywelyn | 50 Breton Nightblade | DC AR 4 |
Plays-with-Sunray | 50 Argonian Templar | EP AR 4 |
Milariel | 50 Wood Elf Warden | AD AR 4 |
Scheei-Jul | 50 Necromancer | EP AR 4 |
PC-NA CP 1800+
30,000+ Achievement Points before High IsleMember of:
Savage Blade: Majestic Machette
Characters:
Asardes the Exile | 50 Nord Dragonknight | EP AR 30 |0 -
KingMagaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭This situation has been a lose lose for Z0$ i feel, and rightly so.
Lack of communication and using wrong figures when analysing the AP exploiters last time has left sour taste for players. Temp suspensions while keeping the exploited goods was just incompetent from Z0$.
For others who have found 0 or 1 dust in ~8 months Z0$ statement doesn't ring true.
Buying low and selling high?. Not on any of my tracked data you haven't. Dust has been devaluing since it was released, with a slight surge for Morrowind characters needing levelled.
It is not logical that players bought so much 'cheaply' when the MM was always devaluing. Previous to this i never heard of anyone selling gold dust for 5k, or 10k. It has always held a value while steadily decreasing. So when was the opportunity to buy so many, so cheap because no-one i know or talked to heard about it.
Frankly Z0$ said they checked and nothing was suspicious but they are bias in the information they released and have got information like this wrong in the past, most recently the AP exploiting.
I cannot fathom how anyone can take Z0$ seriously anymore tbh.4 -
ScytheNL✭✭✭✭Dust has only been in game for about 8 months - was introduced shortly after One Tamriel patch, along with the Tel Var alchemy parcels - so playing for 2-3 years means absolutely nothing.
Ok, rephrase: People have been farming for 8 months and have found 1 or 2, IF ANY, and these guys magically have hundreds.
Ya happy now?Ingame:
Ezekiel Zakriah, Redguard Nightblade
Xbox One, GT= Scythe NL3