@Lexxypwns I said @Waffennacht should learn to have better counters against procs(l2p against them so he'd be less troubled) not that he shud l2p w/o them. This was a very good response, I agree. From there it's all dev work.
@leepalmer95 Ok you played ur stam toon for a week cool man. What I'm saying is you advocated for nerf on a set that isn't even a problem. Why would you do that? biased biased biased. Y'know if some sh** was to be nerfed harshly you wouldn't be affected due to having all those characters, making drastic bullsh** changes that you could easily advocate adaptable.
@Lexxypwns I said @Waffennacht should learn to have better counters against procs(l2p against them so he'd be less troubled) not that he shud l2p w/o them. This was a very good response, I agree. From there it's all dev work.
@leepalmer95 Ok you played ur stam toon for a week cool man. What I'm saying is you advocated for nerf on a set that isn't even a problem. Why would you do that? biased biased biased. Y'know if some sh** was to be nerfed harshly you wouldn't be affected due to having all those characters, making drastic bullsh** changes that you could easily advocate adaptable.
Waffennacht wrote: »I was gonna post a long well written point about how streak, black rose, shield duration, tremorscale, pirate Skeleton, resource poisons, battlespirit, all of them were at this exact point. About how each was over performing and how people were on both sides and how it didn't ruin the game.
But then I realized it doesn't matter and they are gonna do it, so why bother?
Plus, ya know, apparently I can't play against proc builds lmfao
@leepalmer95
It's an "OK!" with a nerf against procs and shieldbreaker along w/whatever else if there is anything else.
And apparently all people w/1-2 mained toons only should be striped the right to persuade against any nerf put on them or their builds correct? They need more toons to prove their credibility? Stop being a clown.
So Kiddo, being unbiased, having 8 toons means if one of them gets nerfed harshly because you advocated for something stupid means you won't be able to switch to another toon with ease? And how is this ok? B/c everyone should have all characters just incase some stupida**es decide to publicly support a horrible nerf w/o providing valid calculations, video, proper evidence and is then enabled? Then what, wait for a buff just so it can be complained about again? lmfao try again buddy.
I doubt you can ever answer why shldbreak should be nerfed, can we even start on this topic or are you just gonna flip flop around it and act like you've never said it lol.
@dwemer_paleologist what do you suggest?
@leepalmer95 -so ur telling me u know when a snipe is about to hit u at all times? lol shh this is where the addon comes in handy, again, also doesnt tell u when to dodge. read pls.
-ye i guess light arm w/shields die huh, and if medium armored players can kill other medium armored players 1hit proc. thats balanced lmao, may be high dmg for both medium armored players, but its still balanced. shh
-so ur saying u can oneshot all tanks builds if selene procs?
-oh *** man! so am I bad for 1vXing with procs or am I bad for 1vXing w/o them? Did you just choose to disregard the 1vX part LOL
-now you're hating on skoria worn by magdks LOL? l2p dude
cpuScientist wrote: »@Sarato I will say though. The proc monster sets are all fine, in fact I love them as ZOS took time to make them powerful but you can counter and react to them. I dislike the sets like viper that just deliver hidden unavoidable damage. But those only usually hit for 2-4k. In a 1v1 they are not horrible. But PvP is not balanced around duels, it's balanced around open world and now BG I guess and that's where they become a real problem.
IMO they should drop or change the viper type sets. But hopefully ZOS doesn't just drop the hammer on all proc sets as they are a good part of the game when done right.
cpuScientist wrote: »@Sarato I will say though. The proc monster sets are all fine, in fact I love them as ZOS took time to make them powerful but you can counter and react to them. I dislike the sets like viper that just deliver hidden unavoidable damage. But those only usually hit for 2-4k. In a 1v1 they are not horrible. But PvP is not balanced around duels, it's balanced around open world and now BG I guess and that's where they become a real problem.
IMO they should drop or change the viper type sets. But hopefully ZOS doesn't just drop the hammer on all proc sets as they are a good part of the game when done right.
usmcjdking wrote: »cpuScientist wrote: »@Sarato I will say though. The proc monster sets are all fine, in fact I love them as ZOS took time to make them powerful but you can counter and react to them. I dislike the sets like viper that just deliver hidden unavoidable damage. But those only usually hit for 2-4k. In a 1v1 they are not horrible. But PvP is not balanced around duels, it's balanced around open world and now BG I guess and that's where they become a real problem.
IMO they should drop or change the viper type sets. But hopefully ZOS doesn't just drop the hammer on all proc sets as they are a good part of the game when done right.
Molag Kena is the only balanced monster set. Pirate King would be if it's uptime was reduced to ~60% and the debuff was tethered to the proc and non-purgeable.
usmcjdking wrote: »Not all procsets are broken, the concept of proc sets aren't broken either. There are a few that IMO work very well; Poisonous Serpent and Overwhelming are two good damaging proc sets that have significant requirements to make them work.
The conditions upon which proc sets may occur are wildly out of balance. Viper, Red Mountain, Velidreth, Selene's (to a degree) and Skoria are all sets that passively proc incredible amounts of damage as long as you generally just press buttons in no specific order or manner. They require you do nothing exceptional unlike the aforementioned sets which are both high damage but in PVP have significantly lower overall contirbutions to the engagement. This is flawed in all reasoning and logic when it comes to balancing.
Offensive proc sets should always consist of atleast (2) conditional requirements. Those two can be a combination of static input and non-static input. Static being things that will inevitably occur during combat and non-static being things that require active application.
Viper:
When you deal damage with a Melee Attack, you deal an additional 6400 Poison damage. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds.
This is (1) static requirement. Do melee damage. To help alleviate the issue of viper overperforming, it COULD read one of the following:
When you deal damage with a Melee Attack, you have a 25% chance for an additional 6400 Poison damage. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds. (Static/Static)
When you deal damage with a Melee Attack to an opponent above 60% health, you deal an additional 6400 Poison damage. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds. (Static/Non-static)
When you deal damage with a melee skill to a disabled opponent, you deal an additional 6400 Poison damage. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds. (Non-static/Non-static)
usmcjdking wrote: »cpuScientist wrote: »@Sarato I will say though. The proc monster sets are all fine, in fact I love them as ZOS took time to make them powerful but you can counter and react to them. I dislike the sets like viper that just deliver hidden unavoidable damage. But those only usually hit for 2-4k. In a 1v1 they are not horrible. But PvP is not balanced around duels, it's balanced around open world and now BG I guess and that's where they become a real problem.
IMO they should drop or change the viper type sets. But hopefully ZOS doesn't just drop the hammer on all proc sets as they are a good part of the game when done right.
Molag Kena is the only balanced monster set. Pirate King would be if it's uptime was reduced to ~60% and the debuff was tethered to the proc and non-purgeable.
usmcjdking wrote: »Not all procsets are broken, the concept of proc sets aren't broken either. There are a few that IMO work very well; Poisonous Serpent and Overwhelming are two good damaging proc sets that have significant requirements to make them work.
The conditions upon which proc sets may occur are wildly out of balance. Viper, Red Mountain, Velidreth, Selene's (to a degree) and Skoria are all sets that passively proc incredible amounts of damage as long as you generally just press buttons in no specific order or manner. They require you do nothing exceptional unlike the aforementioned sets which are both high damage but in PVP have significantly lower overall contirbutions to the engagement. This is flawed in all reasoning and logic when it comes to balancing.
Offensive proc sets should always consist of atleast (2) conditional requirements. Those two can be a combination of static input and non-static input. Static being things that will inevitably occur during combat and non-static being things that require active application.
Viper:
When you deal damage with a Melee Attack, you deal an additional 6400 Poison damage. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds.
This is (1) static requirement. Do melee damage. To help alleviate the issue of viper overperforming, it COULD read one of the following:
When you deal damage with a Melee Attack, you have a 25% chance for an additional 6400 Poison damage. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds. (Static/Static)
When you deal damage with a Melee Attack to an opponent above 60% health, you deal an additional 6400 Poison damage. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds. (Static/Non-static)
When you deal damage with a melee skill to a disabled opponent, you deal an additional 6400 Poison damage. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds. (Non-static/Non-static)
Actually poisonous serpent and overwhelming surge are so broken as to be banned in most dueling environments, even ones that allow damage procs.
@leepalmer95 your "fact" about viper is a lie and whoever came up with that "math" is completely incorrect. But, even if it were true, that's still more than every other set in game.
leepalmer95 wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »Not all procsets are broken, the concept of proc sets aren't broken either. There are a few that IMO work very well; Poisonous Serpent and Overwhelming are two good damaging proc sets that have significant requirements to make them work.
The conditions upon which proc sets may occur are wildly out of balance. Viper, Red Mountain, Velidreth, Selene's (to a degree) and Skoria are all sets that passively proc incredible amounts of damage as long as you generally just press buttons in no specific order or manner. They require you do nothing exceptional unlike the aforementioned sets which are both high damage but in PVP have significantly lower overall contirbutions to the engagement. This is flawed in all reasoning and logic when it comes to balancing.
Offensive proc sets should always consist of atleast (2) conditional requirements. Those two can be a combination of static input and non-static input. Static being things that will inevitably occur during combat and non-static being things that require active application.
Viper:
When you deal damage with a Melee Attack, you deal an additional 6400 Poison damage. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds.
This is (1) static requirement. Do melee damage. To help alleviate the issue of viper overperforming, it COULD read one of the following:
When you deal damage with a Melee Attack, you have a 25% chance for an additional 6400 Poison damage. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds. (Static/Static)
When you deal damage with a Melee Attack to an opponent above 60% health, you deal an additional 6400 Poison damage. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds. (Static/Non-static)
When you deal damage with a melee skill to a disabled opponent, you deal an additional 6400 Poison damage. This effect can occur once every 4 seconds. (Non-static/Non-static)
Actually poisonous serpent and overwhelming surge are so broken as to be banned in most dueling environments, even ones that allow damage procs.
@leepalmer95 your "fact" about viper is a lie and whoever came up with that "math" is completely incorrect. But, even if it were true, that's still more than every other set in game.
@Lexxypwns You commented it in.
The original post is a bit off but they do considering crits and such later on,
cpuScientist wrote: »usmcjdking wrote: »cpuScientist wrote: »@Sarato I will say though. The proc monster sets are all fine, in fact I love them as ZOS took time to make them powerful but you can counter and react to them. I dislike the sets like viper that just deliver hidden unavoidable damage. But those only usually hit for 2-4k. In a 1v1 they are not horrible. But PvP is not balanced around duels, it's balanced around open world and now BG I guess and that's where they become a real problem.
IMO they should drop or change the viper type sets. But hopefully ZOS doesn't just drop the hammer on all proc sets as they are a good part of the game when done right.
Molag Kena is the only balanced monster set. Pirate King would be if it's uptime was reduced to ~60% and the debuff was tethered to the proc and non-purgeable.
Only Kena? Are you saying there are some underpowered ones too or is Nerienth OP lol?
@lucky_Sage Everyone can animation cancel. "a heavy attacked cancled with a ambush cancled by uncap with a viper and selene"
So what're you're saying is selene will always proc, that combo(which is in the wrong order) will guranteed one shot anyone on PvP, and that incap is always ready for the next person after you've killed someone and again ready for the next person? What is this logic
They're not broken lol people just don't like being killed by them.
Just like I hate being ambushed and killed by a Nightblade. But it happens, it's apart of the game lol I deal with it
I guess my previous comment was outright ignored...
I said what i wanted to, and won't add any more, but I enjoy reading the comments in this thread...
Proc sets are unbalanced and I'm just referring to proc set comparisons like viper vs sheer venom or skoria vs grothdar. Viper adds a lot more damage over time than a set like sheer venom which is damage-over-time. Sheer venom hits like a wet noodle, even in pve, and can also be blocked in pvp. (dots with the exception of channels are suppose to be unblockable last i checked)
Basically direct damage is currently king in procs and dot procs are very underpowered and not worth using over direct.
I'd like to see sets like Sheer venom and Overwhelming set more viable for pvp, especially since it drops from a pvp dlc and comes in impenetrable for a reason.