Why do you think procsets are broken in PvP combat?

Sarato

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

1)Proc sets promote minimum atk stats, maximum sustain stats MIN/MAXING which create unkillable targets that can burst 26k dmg at will.

2)Proc sets do wrong to Classes and Weapons that require to slot an ability in the bar, ACTIVATE that ability at RESOURCE cost and TIMING cost in order to deal proc damage (Flames of Oblivion, Deadly Cloak for example).

3)Proc sets do not promote ACTIVE COMBAT that mmorpgs should promote rather PASSIVE damage. On that note Shuffle should be removed from the game because it provides PASSIVE damage avoidance, instead of ACTIVE rolldodge, block, create distance from incoming attack. That should be an ability for stamina nightblades only (I don't play stamNB. I don't meta. No agenda).

4)The massive tooltip damage from proc gear sets cannot realistically be avoided.

PvErs will cry that without procs PvE becomes challenging.
First:PvE can be completed without procs. Stop looking for the ez mode setting in an mmorpg
Second:if nobody had procs nobody would beat you to the ladderboards. Ladderboards should be reset. Are you pro? Do it again without procs. Are you not in the game anymore but still want your old record to remain? Tough luck.
Finally:Did you know that in order to benefit the WHOLE game, proc sets can be removed but the community can also ask for a reduction in mobs/bosses HP by the Devs, in order to compensate for the loss of DPS because of the said removal of proc sets. (Same thing can be done in the possible scenario of the removal of bonus dps from max stamina max magika. Same thing can be done in the possible senario of fixing Light heavy attack interrupt clipping).

PvPrs will not cry about the removal of proc sets because they would be too embarrashed to declare that they depent on proc sets. Nah who are we kidding. Of course they will cry about it shamelessly.

Lastly: the counter argument against blanket nerf.
ZOS should REMOVE Selene, Tremorscale, Viper, Vicious Death and other overperforming DAMAGE proc sets.

If they remove these proc sets, what happens to dps on stam classes? I love your threads and responses on the "ideal" combat system but it's not going to happen bro.

Sarato

DHale wrote: »

Proc sets don't bother me in the slightest. You either build for damage or sustain or suvavability. If and when proc sets are removed or more than likely made not viable. You will still be killed and you will still ask for nerfs it's what forum warriors do.

^ Yes.

Sarato

Eyesinthedrk wrote: »

Skill is exactly the problem. How much skill does it take to ambush and incap from stealth and let your gear do the rest?

Your skill is exactly the same as the thousands of other players running the exact same build.

1. Some procs don't always proc. 2. Skill level is not the same, try to 1v1(Ex. ProcSorc vs Procblade), it's not always procs first. It's who dodge rolls first or blocks, and reading what your opponents rotation is and learning to counter. If you know a nightblade will ambush->incap 90% of the time, why the **** aren't you blocking?---> There's an addon that tells you on your screen when an enemy is about to do something(example ambushing AND it's not instant buddy, it actually takes time to cast it! Suprise!). Why aren't you using it? There's so much more knowledge you don't know about that's leading you to whine about procsets lmao.

Sarato

Supporting a nerf on a forum is obviously easier than learning how to play the game lmao

Sarato

@lucky_Sage Everyone can animation cancel. "a heavy attacked cancled with a ambush cancled by uncap with a viper and selene"
So what're you're saying is selene will always proc, that combo(which is in the wrong order) will guranteed one shot anyone on PvP, and that incap is always ready for the next person after you've killed someone and again ready for the next person? What is this logic

Sarato

@GeorgeBlack What is this false pride bullsh*t..if they nerf someone's build they put IRL time in for, yes they will be mad. Respect it. What holy and well-respected build are you using and on what class lmao? It's easier to talk about something you feel is ideal on here, even when knowing it wont happen.

Lynx7386

STEVIL wrote: »

Proc sets are flawed in that their damage levels are too divorced from the character build. This lets you build the character too much for defense and not lose the most significant parts of your damage.

To fix that all they need to do is split the current proc set damage in hald.

One half scales off the armor level and quality like now.
The other scales off the character's resource pool (stam or mag based on damage type).

This recreates the two-part damage build aspect that most tooltips use (damage plus pool) and makes dumping into health a noticable loss in damage for proc sets just like it is for other dmg effects.

So you can still have high dam proc builds but by putting points into resources offensively.

Imo it is the severe damage without as severe a trade off that is the key issue.

The last thing we need is more scaling based on resources.

Zardayne

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

1)Proc sets promote minimum atk stats, maximum sustain stats MIN/MAXING which create unkillable targets that can burst 26k dmg at will.

2)Proc sets do wrong to Classes and Weapons that require to slot an ability in the bar, ACTIVATE that ability at RESOURCE cost and TIMING cost in order to deal proc damage (Flames of Oblivion, Deadly Cloak for example).

3)Proc sets do not promote ACTIVE COMBAT that mmorpgs should promote rather PASSIVE damage. On that note Shuffle should be removed from the game because it provides PASSIVE damage avoidance, instead of ACTIVE rolldodge, block, create distance from incoming attack. That should be an ability for stamina nightblades only (I don't play stamNB. I don't meta. No agenda).

4)The massive tooltip damage from proc gear sets cannot realistically be avoided.

PvErs will cry that without procs PvE becomes challenging.
First:PvE can be completed without procs. Stop looking for the ez mode setting in an mmorpg
Second:if nobody had procs nobody would beat you to the ladderboards. Ladderboards should be reset. Are you pro? Do it again without procs. Are you not in the game anymore but still want your old record to remain? Tough luck.
Finally:Did you know that in order to benefit the WHOLE game, proc sets can be removed but the community can also ask for a reduction in mobs/bosses HP by the Devs, in order to compensate for the loss of DPS because of the said removal of proc sets. (Same thing can be done in the possible scenario of the removal of bonus dps from max stamina max magika. Same thing can be done in the possible senario of fixing Light heavy attack interrupt clipping).

PvPrs will not cry about the removal of proc sets because they would be too embarrashed to declare that they depent on proc sets. Nah who are we kidding. Of course they will cry about it shamelessly.

Lastly: the counter argument against blanket nerf.
ZOS should REMOVE Selene, Tremorscale, Viper, Vicious Death and other overperforming DAMAGE proc sets.

I'm going to hit on your #3. If that's the case and everything needs to be active combat and not passive based, then perhaps we should remove all passive stamina regen (since that enables you to damage longer), redguard stamina regen on hits every 5 or 6 seconds (once again lets you do more damage longer than anyone else), and then admit that Zenimax is right in making us use our heavy attacks more to generate resources. Their new heavy attack method for resources is making you actively attack more is it not? Do you like that? Personally I don't have a problem with it as it gives me the additional active combat I was looking for but a ton of people are crying because of it.

Most PVE'er don't care what other players run (possibly ESO trial runners though) in all of the games I've played in the past.. It's the PVPers that generally complain about balance being out of whack and rightfully so in a competitive environment but what ends up happening is the PVE players suffer from the overnerfs. I play both sides of the game so I generally get hammered on one side or the other.

I don't mind proc sets as long as they arn't busting for 10k+ per hit. That would be over the top. In most MMOs in the past we've had them be it attached to skills, passives, or armors. As long as they're not OP and dropping someones health by 1/3 in one hit (possibly Selene's) I say let them live. Overall I feel if someone thinks proc sets are OP and they keep getting killed by them, well they need to suck it up and wear them too. Now you have balance. I have to slot crap I normally wouldn't to counter stuff (radiant magelight) and guess what, I use it for it's passive too.

STEVIL

Lynx7386 wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Proc sets are flawed in that their damage levels are too divorced from the character build. This lets you build the character too much for defense and not lose the most significant parts of your damage.

To fix that all they need to do is split the current proc set damage in hald.

One half scales off the armor level and quality like now.
The other scales off the character's resource pool (stam or mag based on damage type).

This recreates the two-part damage build aspect that most tooltips use (damage plus pool) and makes dumping into health a noticable loss in damage for proc sets just like it is for other dmg effects.

So you can still have high dam proc builds but by putting points into resources offensively.

Imo it is the severe damage without as severe a trade off that is the key issue.

The last thing we need is more scaling based on resources.

Well definitely that is one opinion, but given right now it is high dmg whether you invest in offense or defense, i think switching it to scale off the offensive resource is an improvement to giving it free. At least then they cant get the full outpuut while slamming 64 into health!!!

Zardayne

STEVIL wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Proc sets are flawed in that their damage levels are too divorced from the character build. This lets you build the character too much for defense and not lose the most significant parts of your damage.

To fix that all they need to do is split the current proc set damage in hald.

One half scales off the armor level and quality like now.
The other scales off the character's resource pool (stam or mag based on damage type).

This recreates the two-part damage build aspect that most tooltips use (damage plus pool) and makes dumping into health a noticable loss in damage for proc sets just like it is for other dmg effects.

So you can still have high dam proc builds but by putting points into resources offensively.

Imo it is the severe damage without as severe a trade off that is the key issue.

The last thing we need is more scaling based on resources.

Well definitely that is one opinion, but given right now it is high dmg whether you invest in offense or defense, i think switching it to scale off the offensive resource is an improvement to giving it free. At least then they cant get the full outpuut while slamming 64 into health!!!

I agree with that

GeorgeBlack

Sarato wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

1)Proc sets promote minimum atk stats, maximum sustain stats MIN/MAXING which create unkillable targets that can burst 26k dmg at will.

2)Proc sets do wrong to Classes and Weapons that require to slot an ability in the bar, ACTIVATE that ability at RESOURCE cost and TIMING cost in order to deal proc damage (Flames of Oblivion, Deadly Cloak for example).

3)Proc sets do not promote ACTIVE COMBAT that mmorpgs should promote rather PASSIVE damage. On that note Shuffle should be removed from the game because it provides PASSIVE damage avoidance, instead of ACTIVE rolldodge, block, create distance from incoming attack. That should be an ability for stamina nightblades only (I don't play stamNB. I don't meta. No agenda).

4)The massive tooltip damage from proc gear sets cannot realistically be avoided.

PvErs will cry that without procs PvE becomes challenging.
First:PvE can be completed without procs. Stop looking for the ez mode setting in an mmorpg
Second:if nobody had procs nobody would beat you to the ladderboards. Ladderboards should be reset. Are you pro? Do it again without procs. Are you not in the game anymore but still want your old record to remain? Tough luck.
Finally:Did you know that in order to benefit the WHOLE game, proc sets can be removed but the community can also ask for a reduction in mobs/bosses HP by the Devs, in order to compensate for the loss of DPS because of the said removal of proc sets. (Same thing can be done in the possible scenario of the removal of bonus dps from max stamina max magika. Same thing can be done in the possible senario of fixing Light heavy attack interrupt clipping).

PvPrs will not cry about the removal of proc sets because they would be too embarrashed to declare that they depent on proc sets. Nah who are we kidding. Of course they will cry about it shamelessly.

Lastly: the counter argument against blanket nerf.
ZOS should REMOVE Selene, Tremorscale, Viper, Vicious Death and other overperforming DAMAGE proc sets.

If they remove these proc sets, what happens to dps on stam classes? I love your threads and responses on the "ideal" combat system but it's not going to happen bro.

They should git gud and learn to play without procs : D
I am a stamDK no meta.

On a serious note we should NOT look at one issue separately if we want to achieve a better combat. We should take in considerstion all aspects of combat (without "what about PvE". Challenges to PvE due to loss of DPS can be addressed by the Developers by reducing mob/bosses HP to achieve desired balance).
That is why ZOS makes a mess of things all the time. They attack the "issue of the month" with nerfs or boosts instead of combining a nerf to proc with a nerf to heal/shield stack. A boost to WD/SP with a removal of dps bonus to max stamina max magika (hybrid playstyle solution - PvE, PvP)

@ZOS please don't look at an issue without connecting all the dots.

revonine

Sarato wrote: »

DHale wrote: »

Proc sets don't bother me in the slightest. You either build for damage or sustain or suvavability. If and when proc sets are removed or more than likely made not viable. You will still be killed and you will still ask for nerfs it's what forum warriors do.

^ Yes.

Except in practice that's not true with proc sets. Since I'm offered so much free damage I don't have to give a crap about my weapon damage and just build for sustain as my focus after I throw the procs on.

GeorgeBlack

revonine wrote: »

Sarato wrote: »

DHale wrote: »

Proc sets don't bother me in the slightest. You either build for damage or sustain or suvavability. If and when proc sets are removed or more than likely made not viable. You will still be killed and you will still ask for nerfs it's what forum warriors do.

^ Yes.

Except in practice that's not true with proc sets. Since I'm offered so much free damage I don't have to give a crap about my weapon damage and just build for sustain as my focus after I throw the procs on.

Which is bad for a game that promotes unique playstyles from a variety of skill lines to choose from.

Emma_Overload

I wonder how OP and all the scamblade proctards out there would feel if there were a bunch of MAGICKA versions of these sets? Yeah, think about that for a minute. How would you like to get hit with Curse, Frags, a light attack and 2 or 3 proc sets plus a Fury explosion all at the same time? Would serve you right, but you would just come to the forums to whine...

...and I would say, "L2P, dude!"

GeorgeBlack

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I wonder how OP and all the scamblade proctards out there would feel if there were a bunch of MAGICKA versions of these sets? Yeah, think about that for a minute. How would you like to get hit with Curse, Frags, a light attack and 2 or 3 proc sets plus a Fury explosion all at the same time? Would serve you right, but you would just come to the forums to whine...

...and I would say, "L2P, dude!"

I don't think OP is a proc user.

Kilandros

The reason proc builds have reemerged is because they aren't constrained by needing to balance damage/sustain. On a non-proc Stamina build, you need to find the proper balance between Weapon Damage and Recovery--you can't just stack Weapon Damage like you used to.

But because proc sets are not influenced by Weapon Damage, and because they can't crit, people figured out that you can put together 3 proc sets and then build entirely for sustain. Proc builds don't need to worry about balance in their builds because neither having a high nor low Weapon Damage will affect their damage in any meaningful way.

So it becomes too easy for triple-proc builds to achieve the best of both worlds: They have high burst damage thanks to procs, and they have very high sustain thanks to not having to worry about sinking stats into Weapon Damage or Weapon Crit.

That's really the problem with proc sets. Adding a global cooldown to proc sets would solve this problem because you could not make these builds operate (as) effectively with only 1 proc. People would then need to build for more damage into their sustained attacks like Dizzying Swing etc.

Eyesinthedrk

Sarato wrote: »

Eyesinthedrk wrote: »

Skill is exactly the problem. How much skill does it take to ambush and incap from stealth and let your gear do the rest?

Your skill is exactly the same as the thousands of other players running the exact same build.

1. Some procs don't always proc. 2. Skill level is not the same, try to 1v1(Ex. ProcSorc vs Procblade), it's not always procs first. It's who dodge rolls first or blocks, and reading what your opponents rotation is and learning to counter. If you know a nightblade will ambush->incap 90% of the time, why the **** aren't you blocking?---> There's an addon that tells you on your screen when an enemy is about to do something(example ambushing AND it's not instant buddy, it actually takes time to cast it! Suprise!). Why aren't you using it? There's so much more knowledge you don't know about that's leading you to whine about procsets lmao.

Console so no add ons. Block what? There was no one there till I'm cced and killed. So should everyone hold block and walk from aleswel to ash? What about once we are there. Do we stand there holding block and pray to vivec that the wall falls down on its own?

Once I know they are there it's easy to defend. Pop a detect pot and watch all these super skilled players try to retreat while stuck in crouch and spamming closk and rally till they're dead.

With stealth you get first strike with a gap close and a cc all in one move. Followed by an ult. The other 60% of your damage had nothing to do with your skill.

Why don't I use it? Because then I'd be just another cookie cutter cheese player like the rest of you.

Zer0_CooL

Unpopular opinion here: I don't think they are broken.

Brutusmax1mus

It's when they are stacked that's the problem. There is no issue with any 1 proc damage set. No one is complaining about a viper/bone pirates or rm/lich combo. If they are, they are bad.

Zaldan

tunepunk wrote: »

DPS wise most proc sets seem pretty decently balanced, as above mentioned the burst every 4 seconds from sets like viper's sting, can be hard for some to handle, although it doesn't really do much more dps than any other proc set.

Even a set like Storm Master (Also melee range) probably similar DPS, but spread across every light attack.

proc sets wouldn't be so bad if they work the way they're supposed to, viper can proc more then once every 4 seconds for a start

Waffennacht

Would a gcd mess up pve?

Sarato

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Sarato wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

1)Proc sets promote minimum atk stats, maximum sustain stats MIN/MAXING which create unkillable targets that can burst 26k dmg at will.

2)Proc sets do wrong to Classes and Weapons that require to slot an ability in the bar, ACTIVATE that ability at RESOURCE cost and TIMING cost in order to deal proc damage (Flames of Oblivion, Deadly Cloak for example).

3)Proc sets do not promote ACTIVE COMBAT that mmorpgs should promote rather PASSIVE damage. On that note Shuffle should be removed from the game because it provides PASSIVE damage avoidance, instead of ACTIVE rolldodge, block, create distance from incoming attack. That should be an ability for stamina nightblades only (I don't play stamNB. I don't meta. No agenda).

4)The massive tooltip damage from proc gear sets cannot realistically be avoided.

PvErs will cry that without procs PvE becomes challenging.
First:PvE can be completed without procs. Stop looking for the ez mode setting in an mmorpg
Second:if nobody had procs nobody would beat you to the ladderboards. Ladderboards should be reset. Are you pro? Do it again without procs. Are you not in the game anymore but still want your old record to remain? Tough luck.
Finally:Did you know that in order to benefit the WHOLE game, proc sets can be removed but the community can also ask for a reduction in mobs/bosses HP by the Devs, in order to compensate for the loss of DPS because of the said removal of proc sets. (Same thing can be done in the possible scenario of the removal of bonus dps from max stamina max magika. Same thing can be done in the possible senario of fixing Light heavy attack interrupt clipping).

PvPrs will not cry about the removal of proc sets because they would be too embarrashed to declare that they depent on proc sets. Nah who are we kidding. Of course they will cry about it shamelessly.

Lastly: the counter argument against blanket nerf.
ZOS should REMOVE Selene, Tremorscale, Viper, Vicious Death and other overperforming DAMAGE proc sets.

If they remove these proc sets, what happens to dps on stam classes? I love your threads and responses on the "ideal" combat system but it's not going to happen bro.

They should git gud and learn to play without procs : D
I am a stamDK no meta.

On a serious note we should NOT look at one issue separately if we want to achieve a better combat. We should take in considerstion all aspects of combat (without "what about PvE". Challenges to PvE due to loss of DPS can be addressed by the Developers by reducing mob/bosses HP to achieve desired balance).
That is why ZOS makes a mess of things all the time. They attack the "issue of the month" with nerfs or boosts instead of combining a nerf to proc with a nerf to heal/shield stack. A boost to WD/SP with a removal of dps bonus to max stamina max magika (hybrid playstyle solution - PvE, PvP)

@ZOS please don't look at an issue without connecting all the dots.

With your logic, ok git gud and learn how to play against people with procs lmao. Why aren't you wearing the meta build, perhaps maybe other "meta" builds? Maybe this is why you're having trouble. I fight StamDKs all the f***ing time and they eat my procs and its a good fight bro. If they can do it you can do it.

IlCanis_LupuslI

Sarato wrote: »

Don't even answer the question. Procsets aren't the problem lol. "Skill"; gaining most knowledge on what sets to use at a given time, button pressing obv, cancel animations, what combo(s) to use, what rotation to use(basically same *** as combo in a way), what pots to use given what time, your CP level, whether your armor is green, blue, purple, or gold, what food you're using, whether you need heavy or medium or light, what fits YOUR playstyle, POISONS etc etc etc etc. This list goes on. SO many factors. Don't think the game is balanced nor should it be. The person who has acquired the most knowledge on what I've mentioned, "Skill", WILL HAVE THE EASIEST TIME WHETHER THAT BE PVP OR PVE. Some people choose NOT to use procs then complain about procs; this is some false pride bullsh*t. It's in the game, and if it it betters your class USE it, or die and keep complaining and stay mad. There are people on every class who are AMAZING at this game. A player 3 months old isn't going to be as good as Fengrush or Sypher because they took time to gain more knowledge on wtf to do. L2p people. PvP isn't AMAZING right now(I'd say due to the amount of zergs and less soloing/ small grouping, but that's entirely opinion) but it's far better than it was.

I play with a proc set(engine guardian :-P)
To help substaining. Proc sets arent the issue its the fact that proc sets do more damage then ultimates(e. G. 4k meteor x4 in death recap and a 4.5k Scoria proc) or 3k incap followed by a 5k selenes and a 3.5k viper proc.
And the lack of a global cooldown(viper, eternal hunt, selenes).
Make that the damage doesnt get buffed by cp(direct damage), add a global cooldown to prevent stacking and they will be fine.

Sarato

@Mangeli200194 LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

IlCanis_LupuslI

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

1)Proc sets promote minimum atk stats, maximum sustain stats MIN/MAXING which create unkillable targets that can burst 26k dmg at will.

2)Proc sets do wrong to Classes and Weapons that require to slot an ability in the bar, ACTIVATE that ability at RESOURCE cost and TIMING cost in order to deal proc damage (Flames of Oblivion, Deadly Cloak for example).

3)Proc sets do not promote ACTIVE COMBAT that mmorpgs should promote rather PASSIVE damage. On that note Shuffle should be removed from the game because it provides PASSIVE damage avoidance, instead of ACTIVE rolldodge, block, create distance from incoming attack. That should be an ability for stamina nightblades only (I don't play stamNB. I don't meta. No agenda).

4)The massive tooltip damage from proc gear sets cannot realistically be avoided.

PvErs will cry that without procs PvE becomes challenging.
First:PvE can be completed without procs. Stop looking for the ez mode setting in an mmorpg
Second:if nobody had procs nobody would beat you to the ladderboards. Ladderboards should be reset. Are you pro? Do it again without procs. Are you not in the game anymore but still want your old record to remain? Tough luck.
Finally:Did you know that in order to benefit the WHOLE game, proc sets can be removed but the community can also ask for a reduction in mobs/bosses HP by the Devs, in order to compensate for the loss of DPS because of the said removal of proc sets. (Same thing can be done in the possible scenario of the removal of bonus dps from max stamina max magika. Same thing can be done in the possible senario of fixing Light heavy attack interrupt clipping).

PvPrs will not cry about the removal of proc sets because they would be too embarrashed to declare that they depent on proc sets. Nah who are we kidding. Of course they will cry about it shamelessly.

Lastly: the counter argument against blanket nerf.
ZOS should REMOVE Selene, Tremorscale, Viper, Vicious Death and other overperforming DAMAGE proc sets.

Thats the reason i have 28k hp on my stamblade to survive those proc combos

IlCanis_LupuslI

Sarato wrote: »

@Mangeli200194 LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

Sarato

@Mangeli200194 So when would the procs set off.
And nice, try troll king?

IlCanis_LupuslI

Sarato wrote: »

@Mangeli200194 LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

I know im such a *** for using that cheesy procset but im Really fond of it :-D

QuebraRegra

not all procsets are broke in PVP. The amount of VIPER in PVP is an indication that something is definitely wrong.

I left my Baharahs Curse on in PVP the other day.. it's a procset, but I'm pretty sure no one saw it in their death feed (or maybe they did?).

IlCanis_LupuslI

Sarato wrote: »

@Mangeli200194 So when would the procs set off.
And nice, try troll king?

Ever since it was introduced on some youtubers build i lost interest in it. #2much cheese
I need to watch my weight and everyone knows cheese makes you fat(that's my excuse and im sticking with it )