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Time to balance divines
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DocFrost72✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Impen - pvp
Divines- pve dps
Well fitted - pvp
Reinforced and Sturdy- pvp/pve tanks
Nirnhoned- useful for pvp weapons and tanks' shields
Training- arguably the most useful trait for grinding new toons or gaining cp.
Infused- run by tanks and healers in pve.
Looks like it's just prosperous, then.1 -
Zardayne✭✭✭✭✭GeorgeBlack wrote: »Eso stats are:give some lose some.
I wish the game was more about action rather than number crunching.
Less stats. Simpler stats.
I agree with this.0 -
Gedalya✭✭✭✭✭When the only set your after is anything Divines, its become Overpowered and there is no balance with traits. Is it time they downgrade divines and balance other traits.
You are doing it wrong. Seriously? Divines is the only triat you seek?0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lord_Dexter wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Lord_Dexter wrote: »Its not about just balance divine but buff other traits,
There is problem in armor, weapons with PVE and PVP:
Weapon BIS = Sharpen
PVE Armor BIS = Divine
PVP Armor BIS = Impent
@Lord_Dexter
Incorrect. Your looking at this with the same narrow focus as OP was. Wearing blinders when considering armor traits usefulness leads to false answers
If you look at the early posts on the first page it is made clear most of the armor traits have a use. Well, unless you want to screw over your tanks and their choices and suggest that some of the healers that have clear Rakkhat HM choose to gear wrong.
My comments are soloely related from DPS perspective.
Tank and heaker setup is different and i am well aware!
Your post did not mention dps nor quote a comment to that. Traits are a big picture thing, which OP didn't seem to understand.1 -
Dubhliam✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lord_Dexter wrote: »Buff other traits tbh.
As for the argument tanks use sturdy and infused. Sure, except the top tanks in the top raid guilds run divines and infused, because sturdy isn't needed, it's overkill.
Healers can run infused on all pieces, I can agree to that.
I think this is more of a DD thing though. DD's have to run divines, which is the flaw. Tanks can run different traits, healers can, PVPers have variety too. But DDs don't have that variety (unless you're a casual who doesn't give a *** about end game PVE, which is 95% of the playerbase). Could have been worded better. I still think other traits being buffed is the better choice.
So much ignorance.- Tanks today don't use Divines ever, heck, they even prefer Sturdy on big pieces instead of Infused.
- Healers don't, or at least should not use full Infused. Divines is more preferable on small pieces.
- DDs don't have to run divines, Infused on big pieces is also quite valid, especially on builds that don't focus on crit as much.
The true problem is that there is only a handful of players that actually understand the math behind these things, those players post DD builds that all have full Divines, which then in turn get established as "go Divines or go home" in the sheeple, even though Divines is only marginally stronger than Divines on big pieces for DDs.
All 7 piece divine = 6.3% crit = DPS increase
This increase is more than any other trait 7 piece..
This increase also buff with Warhorn. I am not against Divine trait but also wanted other traits to have some buff for DPS!
Actually, 7 Divines is 5,775% chance, not 6,3%.
Instead of 5,775% you could choose to go 3,3% crit chance plus 519 max stam or mag.
EDIT: yes, Divines is BiS, nobody is arguing that.
But the margin is close.
People need to stop looking at drop tables and say: there is only one viable trait.Edited by Dubhliam on June 28, 2017 2:50PM0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GeorgeBlack wrote: »Eso stats are:give some lose some.
I wish the game was more about action rather than number crunching.
Less stats. Simpler stats.
As is typical with MMOs the game is about both. This genre is more complex than games of most genres. Makes the game more interesting.0 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Not voting because the only 2 options suck.
First, I disagree that Divines is OP or mandatory; for DPS, Infused is more than fine in a lot of cases. A full set of Infused vs. a full set of Divines is maybe a ~1% DPS difference, and for some builds, Infused is better on big pieces.
I do think that certain traits (specifically, Well-Fitted and Nirnhoned) could use some tweaking. Reinforced and Impen and Sturdy are all very useful.
I don't have an issue with the existence of Training gear, I just don't think that any vet dungeons or chests should drop training gear.
Prosperous needs to be massively buffed or it needs to hit the road.1 -
Flameheart✭✭✭✭✭Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »OP is misguided.
Some healers and tanks use infused on large pieces. Some of my tanking gear is infused.
Sturdy and reinforced are used by tanks.
Potent Nirncrux offers more armor on shields than reinforced.
Impenetrable is used in PvP
Training is used for leveling and newer player to gain CP faster.
Well Fitted has more limited use buy is good for anyone who sprints or dodge roles much. Especially good for scroll running and some may use it for other PvP aspects like being able to dodge roll more.
Prosperous is the only trash trait.
So in the end, the statement OP made is not really correct. Armor traits offer a great selection and choices.
Of course the poll is plain worthless trash being it was worded to be prejudice to an incorrect opinion. What I typed speaks to the devs much stronger than that poll every will. They will see it for what it is.
@bloodthirstyvampire thx for pointing out I stated the wrong nirncrux. I think OP has learned a lot about armor traits from the replies.
just this.Sometimes the prey turns and nips us... it's a small thing.
So let the snow flakes and unicorns dance alone until they melt or vanish from existence, we will finish up with those smart enough to stay in the glowing circle of love.
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Sylundine - CP 1k+ Breton Magicka Warden (Ebonheart Pact)0 -
Lord_Eomer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lord_Dexter wrote: »Buff other traits tbh.
As for the argument tanks use sturdy and infused. Sure, except the top tanks in the top raid guilds run divines and infused, because sturdy isn't needed, it's overkill.
Healers can run infused on all pieces, I can agree to that.
I think this is more of a DD thing though. DD's have to run divines, which is the flaw. Tanks can run different traits, healers can, PVPers have variety too. But DDs don't have that variety (unless you're a casual who doesn't give a *** about end game PVE, which is 95% of the playerbase). Could have been worded better. I still think other traits being buffed is the better choice.
So much ignorance.- Tanks today don't use Divines ever, heck, they even prefer Sturdy on big pieces instead of Infused.
- Healers don't, or at least should not use full Infused. Divines is more preferable on small pieces.
- DDs don't have to run divines, Infused on big pieces is also quite valid, especially on builds that don't focus on crit as much.
The true problem is that there is only a handful of players that actually understand the math behind these things, those players post DD builds that all have full Divines, which then in turn get established as "go Divines or go home" in the sheeple, even though Divines is only marginally stronger than Divines on big pieces for DDs.
All 7 piece divine = 6.3% crit = DPS increase
This increase is more than any other trait 7 piece..
This increase also buff with Warhorn. I am not against Divine trait but also wanted other traits to have some buff for DPS!
Actually, 7 Divines is 5,775% chance, not 6,3%.
Instead of 5,775% you could choose to go 3,3% crit chance plus 519 max stam or mag.
EDIT: yes, Divines is BiS, nobody is arguing that.
But the margin is close.
People need to stop looking at drop tables and say: there is only one viable trait.
Actually, 7 Divines is 5,775% chance, not 6,3%.
If you mean 5.775 from above then i am not sure if divine is again nerf with morrowdinf but that has not happened, have not seens in patch notes.Edited by Lord_Eomer on June 28, 2017 3:06PM1 -
Dubhliam✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lord_Dexter wrote: »Lord_Dexter wrote: »Buff other traits tbh.
As for the argument tanks use sturdy and infused. Sure, except the top tanks in the top raid guilds run divines and infused, because sturdy isn't needed, it's overkill.
Healers can run infused on all pieces, I can agree to that.
I think this is more of a DD thing though. DD's have to run divines, which is the flaw. Tanks can run different traits, healers can, PVPers have variety too. But DDs don't have that variety (unless you're a casual who doesn't give a *** about end game PVE, which is 95% of the playerbase). Could have been worded better. I still think other traits being buffed is the better choice.
So much ignorance.- Tanks today don't use Divines ever, heck, they even prefer Sturdy on big pieces instead of Infused.
- Healers don't, or at least should not use full Infused. Divines is more preferable on small pieces.
- DDs don't have to run divines, Infused on big pieces is also quite valid, especially on builds that don't focus on crit as much.
The true problem is that there is only a handful of players that actually understand the math behind these things, those players post DD builds that all have full Divines, which then in turn get established as "go Divines or go home" in the sheeple, even though Divines is only marginally stronger than Divines on big pieces for DDs.
All 7 piece divine = 6.3% crit = DPS increase
This increase is more than any other trait 7 piece..
This increase also buff with Warhorn. I am not against Divine trait but also wanted other traits to have some buff for DPS!
Actually, 7 Divines is 5,775% chance, not 6,3%.
Instead of 5,775% you could choose to go 3,3% crit chance plus 519 max stam or mag.
EDIT: yes, Divines is BiS, nobody is arguing that.
But the margin is close.
People need to stop looking at drop tables and say: there is only one viable trait.
Can you explain this:
Actually, 7 Divines is 5,775% chance, not 6,3%.
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Mundus+Stones
Default Thief gives 11%
With 7 Divines it's 16,775%.
0,825% per Divines trait.
Usually people round that up to approx 0,9%, so I can see how someone that didn't crunch the numbers can be misguided.0 -
Reverb✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Biased poll is biased. Divines isn't much of a problem, though it wouldn't be bad to see Nirnhoned and Infused made more desirable.
Weapon trait needs balanced though. It's seriously telling that a random, non-set Sharpened weapon is better for a build than a non-sharpened maelstrom weapon.Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~Friedrich Nietzsche4 -
Dubhliam✭✭✭✭✭
✭Biased poll is biased. Divines isn't much of a problem, though it wouldn't be bad to see Nirnhoned and Infused made more desirable.
Weapon trait needs balanced though. It's seriously telling that a random, non-set Sharpened weapon is better for a build than a non-sharpened maelstrom weapon.
So much this.1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Biased poll is biased. Divines isn't much of a problem, though it wouldn't be bad to see Nirnhoned and Infused made more desirable.
Weapon trait needs balanced though. It's seriously telling that a random, non-set Sharpened weapon is better for a build than a non-sharpened maelstrom weapon.
I don't think OP is paying attention. He/she was probably in a bad mood when they created this thread.1 -
Lord_Eomer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lord_Dexter wrote: »Lord_Dexter wrote: »Buff other traits tbh.
As for the argument tanks use sturdy and infused. Sure, except the top tanks in the top raid guilds run divines and infused, because sturdy isn't needed, it's overkill.
Healers can run infused on all pieces, I can agree to that.
I think this is more of a DD thing though. DD's have to run divines, which is the flaw. Tanks can run different traits, healers can, PVPers have variety too. But DDs don't have that variety (unless you're a casual who doesn't give a *** about end game PVE, which is 95% of the playerbase). Could have been worded better. I still think other traits being buffed is the better choice.
So much ignorance.- Tanks today don't use Divines ever, heck, they even prefer Sturdy on big pieces instead of Infused.
- Healers don't, or at least should not use full Infused. Divines is more preferable on small pieces.
- DDs don't have to run divines, Infused on big pieces is also quite valid, especially on builds that don't focus on crit as much.
The true problem is that there is only a handful of players that actually understand the math behind these things, those players post DD builds that all have full Divines, which then in turn get established as "go Divines or go home" in the sheeple, even though Divines is only marginally stronger than Divines on big pieces for DDs.
All 7 piece divine = 6.3% crit = DPS increase
This increase is more than any other trait 7 piece..
This increase also buff with Warhorn. I am not against Divine trait but also wanted other traits to have some buff for DPS!
Actually, 7 Divines is 5,775% chance, not 6,3%.
Instead of 5,775% you could choose to go 3,3% crit chance plus 519 max stam or mag.
EDIT: yes, Divines is BiS, nobody is arguing that.
But the margin is close.
People need to stop looking at drop tables and say: there is only one viable trait.
Can you explain this:
Actually, 7 Divines is 5,775% chance, not 6,3%.
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Mundus+Stones
Default Thief gives 11%
With 7 Divines it's 16,775%.
0,825% per Divines trait.
Usually people round that up to approx 0,9%, so I can see how someone that didn't crunch the numbers can be misguided.
Yea i can see that its 5.755 total incrase, i am not in game yet.
5.755 crit buff is still good dps increase to go..
Well not going in debate over, infused can be in as big piece (head/chest/legs)0 -
the_man_of_steal✭✭✭When the only set your after is anything Divines, its become Overpowered and there is no balance with traits. Is it time they downgrade divines and balance other traits.
Divines is a great trait but it is not so great that it prevents me from valuing impen, sturdy, or even well fitted sometimes...
One additional gold divines armor under the thief mundus stone adds like 1-2.5% crit chance... not an overwhelming trait by any means IMHO.0 -
Fodore✭✭✭✭Buff the other ones, don't nerf divinesBefore judging a man walk a mile in his shoes.After that who cares?They're a mile away and you've got their shoes.0 -
Pepper8Jack✭✭✭The other traits need to be brought up to par with divines/infused/impen and sharpened/defending.
I didn't vote because the poll implies that voting in favor of this direction implies that I'm cool with a gear level cap increase.
The day that happens (assuming no upgrade system is in place to increase the level of our current gear) is the day I call it quits. I simply refuse to re-grind gear for all of my characters.0 -
Danksta✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Lord_Dexter wrote: »
Exactly, it's a good increase, it's not overpowered.BawKinTackWarDs PS4/NA0 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭the vote should be
"yes"
or
"no"
not adding in all the other words and making the choices bias.3 -
Vyle_Byte✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bad poll is bad.Member of the Old GuardMother of the Byte FamilyVyle Byte||Ivana Byte||Vyible Byte||Hakate Vampler Former EMPRESS BWB||Haan Zolo {Retired} (He swung first)||Lunari ||Wardyn Chalyk Tahno||Dirti Dianah||Bonnie||
Viva la Byte0 -
Asardes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Rather buff other traits so they become meaningful for most builds, and not just tanks.Beta tester since February 2014, played ESO-TU October 2015 - August 2022, currently on an extended break
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Crafts_Many_Boxes✭✭✭✭✭Let's not have any more nerfs, shall we? I'm tired of it, especially when endgame content isn't adjusted to align with the nerfs. Granted I'm not doing trials (yet), but I can't imagine they've gotten any easier after the sustain changes.
Anywho, I'm with the folks saying that the other traits need to be re-evaluated and buffed accordingly. Maybe 10-12% for gold prosperous? 10% for sturdy? Maybe a slight buff for reinforced? You get the idea though.
As for the elephant in the room (sharpened) I've got some other ideas. I might make my own thread about it soon, so stay tuned
0 -
Another outstanding forum poll...
I'd rather see the worthless traits thrown out. Also why would raising the Champion Point cap matter? Did you mean the gear cap?0 -
Enemy-of-Coldharbour✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's dumb*** threads like this that cause the developers to overreact and ruin everything for everyone...
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kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
The results will be tainted by a faulty assumption. The poll is based on Divines being the only usable trait. It is not the only usable trait so the poll results will be useless.
Drop the rhetoric and simply ask should divines be nerfed. My guess is very few people would say yeah let's nerf divines. You also relate champion point increase (something that happens regularly) to the no don't nerf divines choice farther skewing your data in an unbalanced direction. These questions were created with a result already predetermined and even with the heavy skew towards yes the no vote is still on top. That should tell you how unwanted a nerf really is.Edited by kargen27 on June 28, 2017 5:37PMand then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."0 -
Goshua✭✭✭✭Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »OP is misguided.
Some healers and tanks use infused on large pieces. Some of my tanking gear is infused.
Sturdy and reinforced are used by tanks.
Potent Nirncrux offers more armor on shields than reinforced.
Impenetrable is used in PvP
Training is used for leveling and newer player to gain CP faster.
Well Fitted has more limited use buy is good for anyone who sprints or dodge roles much. Especially good for scroll running and some may use it for other PvP aspects like being able to dodge roll more.
Prosperous is the only trash trait.
So in the end, the statement OP made is not really correct. Armor traits offer a great selection and choices.
Of course the poll is plain worthless trash being it was worded to be prejudice to an incorrect opinion. What I typed speaks to the devs much stronger than that poll every will. They will see it for what it is.
@bloodthirstyvampire thx for pointing out I stated the wrong nirncrux. I think OP has learned a lot about armor traits from the replies.
0 -
PlagueSD✭✭✭✭✭
✭Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »OP is misguided.
Some healers and tanks use infused on large pieces. Some of my tanking gear is infused.
Sturdy and reinforced are used by tanks.
Potent Nirncrux offers more armor on shields than reinforced.
Impenetrable is used in PvP
Training is used for leveling and newer player to gain CP faster.
Well Fitted has more limited use buy is good for anyone who sprints or dodge roles much. Especially good for scroll running and some may use it for other PvP aspects like being able to dodge roll more.
Prosperous is the only trash trait.
So in the end, the statement OP made is not really correct. Armor traits offer a great selection and choices.
Of course the poll is plain worthless trash being it was worded to be prejudice to an incorrect opinion. What I typed speaks to the devs much stronger than that poll every will. They will see it for what it is.
@bloodthirstyvampire thx for pointing out I stated the wrong nirncrux. I think OP has learned a lot about armor traits from the replies.
Actually, I use well-fitted on my Night's Silence set (sneaky set). I can sneak at full run speed without having to worry about my stamina. And yes. Prosperous is the only trait I wouldn't mind seeing go away. I don't think I've EVER crafted anything with prosperous trait.0 -
old_mufasa✭✭✭✭This issue with Divines vs lets say infused is that depending on the item you more stats power with divines then you would in fused.. gold divines is always 7.5% no matter the item.. but with infused that +20% enchant bonus is not nearly as effective on smaller armor items vs the large armor items.. impen is the same was as divines.. same power not matter what the armor is..
If there was going to be any change it would have to be that static traits would scale like infused.. or that enchants would be normalized for all armor items so infused trait has the same power per armor as divines or impen.
Not that I'm saying anything needs to be changed... as I tend to mix infused main armor items and divines small armor items on most of my characters anyhow0
