Time to balance divines

Beardimus · June 2017

Biased silly poll.

What about Impen? What about Infused on big pieces? The DPS loss to divines with thief is negligable on small pieces. With other gains, Nirn / reinforced all have a place. Training is the most requested trait I'm asked for as a crafter.....

If people vary it up a bit its more interesting but people don't they copy some streamers build and call it meta.

Ballzy321 · June 2017

Buff prosperous

kylewwefan · June 2017

Nirnhoned could use a buff IMO. Maybe infused also. Not everything though.

For fun, you should try crafting a full set of well fitted medium gear. It is amazing.

Reinforcing on light or medium armor is not so good. It doesn't get as much value.

Divines is good and highly sought after but by no means is it OP or anything.

Lord_Eomer · June 2017

Beardimus wrote: »

Biased silly poll.

What about Impen? What about Infused on big pieces? The DPS loss to divines with thief is negligable on small pieces. With other gains, Nirn / reinforced all have a place. Training is the most requested trait I'm asked for as a crafter.....

If people vary it up a bit its more interesting but people don't they copy some streamers build and call it meta.

Infused on big pieces may be good for tank but overall PVE dps gains from maximizing crit chance and crit damage

Single divine piece adds around .9% crit and all together 7 legendry pieces adds 6.3% Crit. This is good a dps increase..

KochDerDamonen · June 2017

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Those who are discussing here sturdy, reinforced is a nonsense..

This poll is discussing divine trait in DPS perspective. Which is true its widely used trait for dps comparing others..

DPS stats are a snoozefest in this game anyways, if they retool the other traits all of you will just be farming the new bis trait, or maybe infused large pieces/divines rest...

Only way I can imagine that would fix this, would be making damage-type specific traits or overly complex interaction based traits. Maybe DK and Sorc would consider a trait that gives extra damage v.s. off-balance. Obviously DPS are going to dislike Reinforced/Sturdy/Nirnhoned because they're defensive traits, Well-Fitted is fine for utility in PvP or certain other situations, Impenetrable is obviously not going to get touched, infused has a small chance of taking over big pieces (or all of them...) with numbers tweaking...

Prosperous and Training? ahahaha, ZOS may as well combine these into one. Training has its known uses, and Prosperous? Well, I know someone is going to go ahead and tell me about their all-prosperous microgold farming build. No reason to get rid of it I guess, it's not like it would be OP to just merge the effects. What to fill that empty slot with, then? A basic stat like weap/spell damage or crit would be out of place on armor. Perhaps some bonus to the effects of food/drink?

Danksta · June 2017

I failing to realize how .9% crit chance per armor piece is overpowered.

Bombashaman · June 2017

No. Unless I can have my materials back.

Tryxus · June 2017

Ballzy321 wrote: »

Buff prosperous

Preposterous

Lord_Eomer · June 2017

Danksta wrote: »

I failing to realize how .9% crit chance per armor piece is overpowered.

Total of 6.3 % crit chance from 7 pieces is a good dps increse.

No need to have infused for dps, check any good builds online. They all use divine for a purpose to increase dps..

Asmael · June 2017

Divines trait now provides 3/4/5/6/7 % mundus potency, down from 3.5/4.5/5.5/6.5/7.5 %

Divines becomes underperforming for everything except smaller armor pieces and Thief and / or Shadow mundus.

Forum uproar, 5% threaten to quit, 10% get back to the grind, 10% actually do quit because of nerfs, 75% aren't even aware the value changed, as they don't read natch potes.

Complaints start about Infused being BIS on large armor pieces for PvE DDs

You finish the story.

F7sus4 · June 2017

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Well Divine is not my fued to discuss but i am tired of Sharpen only meta for weapons..

There's no Sharpened only meta for DPS weapons anymore. Infused and Precise see common use now both as a 2nd weapon main-hand and/or as an off-hand.

It's the same sort of misinformed claim as "there's only Divines on Armor". No. Tanks and healers commonly use Decisive for Ultimate generation (Warhorn). Infused is commonly used to buff Crushing. Precise is sometimes used in combination with proc sets based on dealing Crit Damage. Defending is still popular choice for some tanks and healers. Powered - no need to elaborate. The only trait that would need a rework is arguably Nirnhoned.

Magıc · June 2017

Buff other traits tbh.

As for the argument tanks use sturdy and infused. Sure, except the top tanks in the top raid guilds run divines and infused, because sturdy isn't needed, it's overkill.

Healers can run infused on all pieces, I can agree to that.

I think this is more of a DD thing though. DD's have to run divines, which is the flaw. Tanks can run different traits, healers can, PVPers have variety too. But DDs don't have that variety (unless you're a casual who doesn't give a *** about end game PVE, which is 95% of the playerbase). Could have been worded better. I still think other traits being buffed is the better choice.

STEVIL · June 2017

I think for me a major draw for divines is flexibility.

Divines helps whatever mundus, so on diff day can swap mundus without chg trait.

Lord_Eomer · June 2017

F7sus4 wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Well Divine is not my fued to discuss but i am tired of Sharpen only meta for weapons..

There's no Sharpened only meta for DPS weapons anymore. Infused and Precise see common use now both as a 2nd weapon main-hand and/or as an off-hand.

It's the same sort of misinformed claim as "there's only Divines on Armor". No. Tanks and healers commonly use Decisive for Ultimate generation (Warhorn). Infused is commonly used to buff Crushing. Precise is sometimes used in combination with proc sets based on dealing Crit Damage. Defending is still popular choice for some tanks and healers. Powered - no need to elaborate. The only trait that would need a rework is arguably Nirnhoned.

Its not that much common, under some conditions (trials) you can go with precise/infuse but still sharpen is dps king!

FyI.. precise never help wih proc set builds as proc sets never crit now..

Defending is only used by tanks, haeler uses precise, powered, charged and infused..

WOW...you really need to spend sometime playing ESO!

dusk194 · June 2017

As with so many other issues. You don't need to nerf an existing set or bonus to make all the non-relavent ones matter more... Rework the garbage sets instead and give us BETTER options that compete with Divines and Sharpened.

Dubhliam · June 2017

Magıc wrote: »

Buff other traits tbh.

As for the argument tanks use sturdy and infused. Sure, except the top tanks in the top raid guilds run divines and infused, because sturdy isn't needed, it's overkill.

Healers can run infused on all pieces, I can agree to that.

I think this is more of a DD thing though. DD's have to run divines, which is the flaw. Tanks can run different traits, healers can, PVPers have variety too. But DDs don't have that variety (unless you're a casual who doesn't give a *** about end game PVE, which is 95% of the playerbase). Could have been worded better. I still think other traits being buffed is the better choice.

So much ignorance.

Tanks today don't use Divines ever, heck, they even prefer Sturdy on big pieces instead of Infused.
Healers don't, or at least should not use full Infused. Divines is more preferable on small pieces.
DDs don't have to run divines, Infused on big pieces is also quite valid, especially on builds that don't focus on crit as much.

The true problem is that there is only a handful of players that actually understand the math behind these things, those players post DD builds that all have full Divines, which then in turn get established as "go Divines or go home" in the sheeple, even though Divines is only marginally stronger than Divines on big pieces for DDs.

Lord_Eomer · June 2017

Dubhliam wrote: »

Magıc wrote: »

Buff other traits tbh.

As for the argument tanks use sturdy and infused. Sure, except the top tanks in the top raid guilds run divines and infused, because sturdy isn't needed, it's overkill.

Healers can run infused on all pieces, I can agree to that.

I think this is more of a DD thing though. DD's have to run divines, which is the flaw. Tanks can run different traits, healers can, PVPers have variety too. But DDs don't have that variety (unless you're a casual who doesn't give a *** about end game PVE, which is 95% of the playerbase). Could have been worded better. I still think other traits being buffed is the better choice.

So much ignorance.
Tanks today don't use Divines ever, heck, they even prefer Sturdy on big pieces instead of Infused.

Healers don't, or at least should not use full Infused. Divines is more preferable on small pieces.

DDs don't have to run divines, Infused on big pieces is also quite valid, especially on builds that don't focus on crit as much.

The true problem is that there is only a handful of players that actually understand the math behind these things, those players post DD builds that all have full Divines, which then in turn get established as "go Divines or go home" in the sheeple, even though Divines is only marginally stronger than Divines on big pieces for DDs.

All 7 piece divine = 6.3% crit = DPS increase

This increase is more than any other trait 7 piece..

This increase also buff with Warhorn. I am not against Divine trait but also wanted other traits to have some buff for DPS!

punishergod · June 2017

One trait will ALWAYS be better then the rest. I agree though, divines is over performing compared to other traits and should be toned down. I'd include sharpened in this as well, it is highly overperforming.

Lord_Eomer · June 2017

punishergod wrote: »

One trait will ALWAYS be better then the rest. I agree though, divines is over performing compared to other traits and should be toned down. I'd include sharpened in this as well, it is highly overperforming.

No nerf! But buff other traits!

cjhhickman39 · June 2017

As a side note a buff to nirncrux would help make crafting needed again.
Nirncrux being a rare drop trait on gear if it was equivalent to the bis then more crafted equipment would be desired

idk · June 2017

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Its not about just balance divine but buff other traits,

There is problem in armor, weapons with PVE and PVP:

Weapon BIS = Sharpen
PVE Armor BIS = Divine
PVP Armor BIS = Impent

@Lord_Dexter

Incorrect. Your looking at this with the same narrow focus as OP was. Wearing blinders when considering armor traits usefulness leads to false answers

If you look at the early posts on the first page it is made clear most of the armor traits have a use. Well, unless you want to screw over your tanks and their choices and suggest that some of the healers that have clear Rakkhat HM choose to gear wrong.

Keep_Door · June 2017

Hmm weird i run well-fitted and impen.....

Please ffs stop with the nerf threads... what is wrong with you...

Miruku · June 2017

Uuuuh?
K?

SilverWF · June 2017

WhitePawPrints wrote: »

I'd take improvements of the other traits, rather than nerfing a trait.

Can't agree more with this

But let's be realistic - they aren't able to do that:
Prosperous - even increasing in 3 times wouldn't make this set desirable (only for bots maybe), coz nowhere to spent your gold here and it would raise inflation only and it would hit hard on newbies.
Training - totally useless after 630 cp, before that it's pretty useful
Infused - too low bonus on small pieces, it's still useful at big non-heavy ones
Sturdy - already desirable for tanks
Reinforced - pretty useful for tanks and another ones, who wearing 5,1,1 setups - obviously, for big heavy pieces
Nirnhoned - maybe here they can do something, coz now it's bonus is way to low for it's price.
Impenetrable - pretty useful in PvP, wouldn't be against buffing it even more tho

Well-Fitted - some med armor builds are using it in PvP too. No need to buff it even more

RABIDxWOLVERINE · June 2017

Don't ruin Divines to make other traits viable, just make the other traits viable.

revonine · June 2017

I'd argue prosperous isn't useless either, throw on a full prosperous set go to a public dungeon full of humanoids and you've got a pretty legit gold farm.

Nestor · June 2017

Do we need to tweak Divines or do we need to tweak the perception that Divines is the end all be all trait for all builds under all circumstances?

All traits except for Prosperous have their uses for various types of builds. Could some of the traits be improved? Sure. In the meantime, I can pick set pieces in "off" traits for cheap prices and use them in my builds and be successful.

kojou · June 2017

Not a fan of this poll...

Divines, while the most desirable trait for PVE DPS does not give that much in terms of DPS. 1 piece increases crit chance by ~.9% if you are running the thief mundus. Depending on where you are at with crit damage that is .45% - .77% more DPS. We are not talking big numbers.

Infused also adds damage, even less than divines, but it does add more resources.

Sturdy is great for tanking.

Inpen is great for PvP

Reinforced is useless on light armor, but ok on medium and heavy. (Maybe change it to a flat value instead of percent?)

Training is good for new players and leveling.

Well Fitted is a little weak, but has its uses

Prosperous and Nirn are the only ones that are really "bad" and unused. I think the values of both could be increased a bit.

In short, yes we like divines, but only because it adds the *most* damage. If you nerf it then damage dealers will either keep using it because it still adds the most damage, or switch to Infused if it adds more.

Rev Rielle · June 2017

kargen27 wrote: »

People doing just one aspect of the game run Divines. Other traits do get used outside your narrow focus.

Very true. A lot of players are simply wasting their time thinking that Divines is the be all and end all.

On larger enchantment pieces (helm, chest, legs) there was a post from Asarye (or however you spell their forum name) that showed with testing that divines increased dps something like 0.07% per piece compared to infused. That's 7/10,000th's. That is no difference beyond theoretical.

Lord_Eomer · June 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Its not about just balance divine but buff other traits,

There is problem in armor, weapons with PVE and PVP:

Weapon BIS = Sharpen
PVE Armor BIS = Divine
PVP Armor BIS = Impent

@Lord_Dexter

Incorrect. Your looking at this with the same narrow focus as OP was. Wearing blinders when considering armor traits usefulness leads to false answers

If you look at the early posts on the first page it is made clear most of the armor traits have a use. Well, unless you want to screw over your tanks and their choices and suggest that some of the healers that have clear Rakkhat HM choose to gear wrong.

My comments are soloely related from DPS perspective.

Tank and heaker setup is different and i am well aware!