[Hypothetical] What would happen if there WERE a global AH?

Drachenfier · June 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Kurkikohtaus wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

3. What you are doing is thinly veiled as something different. Your arguments clearly indicate you are attempting to do the same thing every one of those pro AH threads have done. You merely state having both in the game will prove something.

I think it would prove something, as stated above. And I am willing to accept that if in the described system both trading methods managed to co-exist indefinitely, then I would be wrong. And certainly if those who support guild-trading lead a successful boycott of the GAH, then I would of course be wrong as well.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Another example where you belittle those who do not support an AH as inexperienced and ill-informed.

There is not a single experienced and well-informed (from other MMOs) BUYER who is AGAINST a global AH ... think about that.

Yes, looking at it now, that statement was badly worded. Since then I have changed my tone.

Now I would present that argument this way:

I cannot imagine that experienced and well-informed buyers would be AGAINST a global AH, because the advantages to the buyer, both serious and casual, are too great to overlook.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

So in the end what you have presented in your OP is really just another AH thread except you call it a hypothesis. In the end you present the same baseless argument as everyone else yet somehow think it is more important.

Such is the nature of thought experiments. You propose something and try to understand what will happen and what it means. I don't think my "thought" is more important than anyone else's, except those who blindly claim that "the Majority" wants guild-traders, end of discussion.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

To prove my point that your thread and your replies are merely nothing more than every other AH thread I will present what you posted on page 2.

It is YOU, the SELLERS in the current system who are actually resisting change, because the prospect of adaptation is too daunting.

That quote serves another great example. Those in support of the guild traders have adapted. They might have resisted change in the beginning, but moved past that. It is probably the most illogical statement made in this entire thread.

I stand by my statement quoted in your quote above. Within the context of ESO, people who engage in guild-trading have adapted to nothing, because that is all that there every was. If the system changed or had to compete concurrently with an alternative system, THEN people would have to adapt, and I think that is what some who support guild-trading fear.

the current system is robust and successful.

Hardly. It's a convoluted mess that makes trading for the masses difficult and time consuming. There's nothing "robust" or "successful" about it. How many people in game don't even bother with it? How anyone can claim that's a success is beyond me.

idk · June 2017

Kurkikohtaus wrote: »

@Giles.floydub17_ESO I am wondering, given your many contributions to this discussion, if you agree with Beardimus' post above in which he says:

No-AH camp are agreeing with you. AH would undermine and trash traders through peoples laziness. Do we want it? NO. But would we have to use it when it because the only viable system YES. would it being value to the game. NO.

2 parts to that obviously, part 1 being that yes, people would abandon guild traders, but part 2 being that this would be bad for the game. Do you agree with this?

If you do not, then I am genuinely interested in how you believe things would play out and why. I am not trying to trap you into conjecture, I actually appreciate imaginative conjecture, because yes, that is what I am doing here. But no one in the course of this thread has been able to lay out a detailed and logical counter-argument as to why guild-trading might survive or possibly even render the introduction of a GAH irrelevant.

I'm the case you haven't noticed I've mostly stayed out of the hypothetical since it seems intended for you to argue the AH is superior.

See, you claim no one has laid out a counter argument why guild trading would survive yet all you have provided in this thread is assumption, guessed.

I have strived to avoid the hypothetical pitfall because Zos wanted something more robust and social than the lazy AH. Their gamble paid off since the current system is robust and ESO has a very active economy. The AH will not be more popular because it's not in the game.

Is probably be more in line to discuss the relevance of what @Vahrokh has said. Much more interesting.

idk · June 2017

Drachenfier wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Kurkikohtaus wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

3. What you are doing is thinly veiled as something different. Your arguments clearly indicate you are attempting to do the same thing every one of those pro AH threads have done. You merely state having both in the game will prove something.

I think it would prove something, as stated above. And I am willing to accept that if in the described system both trading methods managed to co-exist indefinitely, then I would be wrong. And certainly if those who support guild-trading lead a successful boycott of the GAH, then I would of course be wrong as well.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Another example where you belittle those who do not support an AH as inexperienced and ill-informed.

There is not a single experienced and well-informed (from other MMOs) BUYER who is AGAINST a global AH ... think about that.

Yes, looking at it now, that statement was badly worded. Since then I have changed my tone.

Now I would present that argument this way:

I cannot imagine that experienced and well-informed buyers would be AGAINST a global AH, because the advantages to the buyer, both serious and casual, are too great to overlook.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

So in the end what you have presented in your OP is really just another AH thread except you call it a hypothesis. In the end you present the same baseless argument as everyone else yet somehow think it is more important.

Such is the nature of thought experiments. You propose something and try to understand what will happen and what it means. I don't think my "thought" is more important than anyone else's, except those who blindly claim that "the Majority" wants guild-traders, end of discussion.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

To prove my point that your thread and your replies are merely nothing more than every other AH thread I will present what you posted on page 2.

It is YOU, the SELLERS in the current system who are actually resisting change, because the prospect of adaptation is too daunting.

That quote serves another great example. Those in support of the guild traders have adapted. They might have resisted change in the beginning, but moved past that. It is probably the most illogical statement made in this entire thread.

I stand by my statement quoted in your quote above. Within the context of ESO, people who engage in guild-trading have adapted to nothing, because that is all that there every was. If the system changed or had to compete concurrently with an alternative system, THEN people would have to adapt, and I think that is what some who support guild-trading fear.

the current system is robust and successful.

Hardly. It's a convoluted mess that makes trading for the masses difficult and time consuming. There's nothing "robust" or "successful" about it. How many people in game don't even bother with it? How anyone can claim that's a success is beyond me.

@Drachenfier all of most kiosks are take each week. 100s of millions of gold change hands evevery week via the guild traders. That means a great many players do bother with it.

Its a week argument to state that some players don't bother with it when many players in any game don't bother with or rarely bother with the AH. No solid foundation there.

Drachenfier · June 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Kurkikohtaus wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

3. What you are doing is thinly veiled as something different. Your arguments clearly indicate you are attempting to do the same thing every one of those pro AH threads have done. You merely state having both in the game will prove something.

I think it would prove something, as stated above. And I am willing to accept that if in the described system both trading methods managed to co-exist indefinitely, then I would be wrong. And certainly if those who support guild-trading lead a successful boycott of the GAH, then I would of course be wrong as well.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Another example where you belittle those who do not support an AH as inexperienced and ill-informed.

There is not a single experienced and well-informed (from other MMOs) BUYER who is AGAINST a global AH ... think about that.

Yes, looking at it now, that statement was badly worded. Since then I have changed my tone.

Now I would present that argument this way:

I cannot imagine that experienced and well-informed buyers would be AGAINST a global AH, because the advantages to the buyer, both serious and casual, are too great to overlook.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

So in the end what you have presented in your OP is really just another AH thread except you call it a hypothesis. In the end you present the same baseless argument as everyone else yet somehow think it is more important.

Such is the nature of thought experiments. You propose something and try to understand what will happen and what it means. I don't think my "thought" is more important than anyone else's, except those who blindly claim that "the Majority" wants guild-traders, end of discussion.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

To prove my point that your thread and your replies are merely nothing more than every other AH thread I will present what you posted on page 2.

It is YOU, the SELLERS in the current system who are actually resisting change, because the prospect of adaptation is too daunting.

That quote serves another great example. Those in support of the guild traders have adapted. They might have resisted change in the beginning, but moved past that. It is probably the most illogical statement made in this entire thread.

I stand by my statement quoted in your quote above. Within the context of ESO, people who engage in guild-trading have adapted to nothing, because that is all that there every was. If the system changed or had to compete concurrently with an alternative system, THEN people would have to adapt, and I think that is what some who support guild-trading fear.

the current system is robust and successful.

Hardly. It's a convoluted mess that makes trading for the masses difficult and time consuming. There's nothing "robust" or "successful" about it. How many people in game don't even bother with it? How anyone can claim that's a success is beyond me.

@Drachenfier all of most kiosks are take each week. 100s of millions of gold change hands evevery week via the guild traders. That means a great many players do bother with it.

Its a week argument to state that some players don't bother with it when many players in any game don't bother with or rarely bother with the AH. No solid foundation there.

Not really a weak argument, considering the amount of people that have admitted they don't bother with this system due to it's overly and completely unnecessarily complicated nature. This game's economy is a wreck, prices are all over the damn place, items are virtually impossible to find. When your trading system's main claim to fame is it's "needle in a haystack" nature, I wouldn't call that successful by any means.

Sigtric · June 2017

Drachenfier wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Kurkikohtaus wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

3. What you are doing is thinly veiled as something different. Your arguments clearly indicate you are attempting to do the same thing every one of those pro AH threads have done. You merely state having both in the game will prove something.

I think it would prove something, as stated above. And I am willing to accept that if in the described system both trading methods managed to co-exist indefinitely, then I would be wrong. And certainly if those who support guild-trading lead a successful boycott of the GAH, then I would of course be wrong as well.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Another example where you belittle those who do not support an AH as inexperienced and ill-informed.

There is not a single experienced and well-informed (from other MMOs) BUYER who is AGAINST a global AH ... think about that.

Yes, looking at it now, that statement was badly worded. Since then I have changed my tone.

Now I would present that argument this way:

I cannot imagine that experienced and well-informed buyers would be AGAINST a global AH, because the advantages to the buyer, both serious and casual, are too great to overlook.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

So in the end what you have presented in your OP is really just another AH thread except you call it a hypothesis. In the end you present the same baseless argument as everyone else yet somehow think it is more important.

Such is the nature of thought experiments. You propose something and try to understand what will happen and what it means. I don't think my "thought" is more important than anyone else's, except those who blindly claim that "the Majority" wants guild-traders, end of discussion.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

To prove my point that your thread and your replies are merely nothing more than every other AH thread I will present what you posted on page 2.

It is YOU, the SELLERS in the current system who are actually resisting change, because the prospect of adaptation is too daunting.

That quote serves another great example. Those in support of the guild traders have adapted. They might have resisted change in the beginning, but moved past that. It is probably the most illogical statement made in this entire thread.

I stand by my statement quoted in your quote above. Within the context of ESO, people who engage in guild-trading have adapted to nothing, because that is all that there every was. If the system changed or had to compete concurrently with an alternative system, THEN people would have to adapt, and I think that is what some who support guild-trading fear.

the current system is robust and successful.

Hardly. It's a convoluted mess that makes trading for the masses difficult and time consuming. There's nothing "robust" or "successful" about it. How many people in game don't even bother with it? How anyone can claim that's a success is beyond me.

@Drachenfier all of most kiosks are take each week. 100s of millions of gold change hands evevery week via the guild traders. That means a great many players do bother with it.

Its a week argument to state that some players don't bother with it when many players in any game don't bother with or rarely bother with the AH. No solid foundation there.

Not really a weak argument, considering the amount of people that have admitted they don't bother with this system due to it's overly and completely unnecessarily complicated nature. This game's economy is a wreck, prices are all over the damn place, items are virtually impossible to find. When your trading system's main claim to fame is it's "needle in a haystack" nature, I wouldn't call that successful by any means.

I don't understand where this "complicated" argument comes from. It's one extra step to sell. Join a guild with a trader then list away. Buying, granted they could add some better filters but it's not hard.

Laziness and unwillingness to use something different is what keeps people from using it.

SilverWF · June 2017

The only Paradise would happen with global AH.

Beardimus · June 2017

Agreed @Sigtric spot on.

On top of that, The idiotic pro AH points on this I've seen are about buying food and potions daily trawls. I seriously do not get why anyone would go to traders daily. Craft the basics - bit then those too lazy to use Guild Traders are probably too lazy to craft items and too lazy to bond with a guild to have things made.

Again on ease I'm in 4 trading guilds. Which means i have access to 4 quality traders at every bank in the land.

Used right the system has everything you need, people are too lazy to bother and want a shortcut.

Crafts_Many_Boxes · June 2017

Sigtric wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Kurkikohtaus wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

3. What you are doing is thinly veiled as something different. Your arguments clearly indicate you are attempting to do the same thing every one of those pro AH threads have done. You merely state having both in the game will prove something.

I think it would prove something, as stated above. And I am willing to accept that if in the described system both trading methods managed to co-exist indefinitely, then I would be wrong. And certainly if those who support guild-trading lead a successful boycott of the GAH, then I would of course be wrong as well.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Another example where you belittle those who do not support an AH as inexperienced and ill-informed.

There is not a single experienced and well-informed (from other MMOs) BUYER who is AGAINST a global AH ... think about that.

Yes, looking at it now, that statement was badly worded. Since then I have changed my tone.

Now I would present that argument this way:

I cannot imagine that experienced and well-informed buyers would be AGAINST a global AH, because the advantages to the buyer, both serious and casual, are too great to overlook.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

So in the end what you have presented in your OP is really just another AH thread except you call it a hypothesis. In the end you present the same baseless argument as everyone else yet somehow think it is more important.

Such is the nature of thought experiments. You propose something and try to understand what will happen and what it means. I don't think my "thought" is more important than anyone else's, except those who blindly claim that "the Majority" wants guild-traders, end of discussion.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

To prove my point that your thread and your replies are merely nothing more than every other AH thread I will present what you posted on page 2.

It is YOU, the SELLERS in the current system who are actually resisting change, because the prospect of adaptation is too daunting.

That quote serves another great example. Those in support of the guild traders have adapted. They might have resisted change in the beginning, but moved past that. It is probably the most illogical statement made in this entire thread.

I stand by my statement quoted in your quote above. Within the context of ESO, people who engage in guild-trading have adapted to nothing, because that is all that there every was. If the system changed or had to compete concurrently with an alternative system, THEN people would have to adapt, and I think that is what some who support guild-trading fear.

the current system is robust and successful.

Hardly. It's a convoluted mess that makes trading for the masses difficult and time consuming. There's nothing "robust" or "successful" about it. How many people in game don't even bother with it? How anyone can claim that's a success is beyond me.

@Drachenfier all of most kiosks are take each week. 100s of millions of gold change hands evevery week via the guild traders. That means a great many players do bother with it.

Its a week argument to state that some players don't bother with it when many players in any game don't bother with or rarely bother with the AH. No solid foundation there.

Not really a weak argument, considering the amount of people that have admitted they don't bother with this system due to it's overly and completely unnecessarily complicated nature. This game's economy is a wreck, prices are all over the damn place, items are virtually impossible to find. When your trading system's main claim to fame is it's "needle in a haystack" nature, I wouldn't call that successful by any means.

I don't understand where this "complicated" argument comes from. It's one extra step to sell. Join a guild with a trader then list away. Buying, granted they could add some better filters but it's not hard.

Laziness and unwillingness to use something different is what keeps people from using it.

First off, it's a big extra step to sell. You also need to be aware of market value, which requires additional addons because you can only see your own trader's sales at your own kiosk. And then if you aren't in multiple trading guilds with high volumes of sales, MM data is probably off as well so really you need to rely on TTC which is constantly becoming out of date. It's tedious for those of us who really just want to get some coin for an item beyond vendoring it. Those of us who actually manage our money and deal with financial planning IRL don't really want a complicated process in our games, go figure lol.

But our main issue, which I'm gonna keep coming back to until people understand, is buying. For the most part, average / casual / PvE/PvP focused players just want to be able to easily buy what they need and get back to actually playing the game. This system is horrendous for buying. A unified search feature with up-to-date data would be nice, but it's still a huge pain to get to wherever its being sold, and in that time something could easily be bought out and suddenly you've wasted 10 minutes.

Beardimus · June 2017

@Kurkikohtaus i just have to disagree with you totally. Selling is going to be as easy either way, its via a bank so its a given. If anything listing things on some system wide huge database AH could even be laggier. But i digress...

Buying is where you are going to wreck that aspect of the game, as the deals for effort / hard work will all be gone.

You may find bargain hunting stressful. Others find vMSA stressful, or PvP stressful,or Vet Dungeons stressful. And others don't. So why ruin it for them?

I'm only a part time trader, spend alot of my time crafting - I'm already annoyed that the game has casualised crafting already and made it less important. I enjoyed investing time on that area of the game and that investment has been dulled in a few areas. However my play time is very limited, but i find trading easy and efficient right now, as i have a system and it works well.

I'm here since console launch, so i suggest i may just manage it better as i have no problems in getting the things i need quickly and efficiently. What i cant craft i can find in Guild banks or stores in minutes. And if i want a deal - or seeking did something to flip, i can fast travel to the good hubs in minutes. Of you are burning hours on Trading you are doing it wrong.

Lastly Trading brought me into a whole world of the game i didn't know about that AH would have ruined. I had no gold and rolled a toon to thieve, as i thought it most profitable. Then realised it wasn't enough, so joined trading guilds (with ease) and from those guild memberships branched out into many areas of the game i had no interest in previously. It's expanded the game for me. And every call to crush areas i enjoy through peoples laziness any me.

I have also seen small IRL mates guilds grow specifically with the purpose of getting a trader, working together to build a trusted guild, to save up for one, team effort and pride - again that whole Element gone

If you used the energy & effort you have put into this thread into learning to trade ESO style efficiently I'm sure you would have more success.

For me any argument for inclusivity = entitlement. This odd worldwide fist waving anti establishment vibe. It's just not for me. But i digress once again...

idk · June 2017

Drachenfier wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Kurkikohtaus wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

3. What you are doing is thinly veiled as something different. Your arguments clearly indicate you are attempting to do the same thing every one of those pro AH threads have done. You merely state having both in the game will prove something.

I think it would prove something, as stated above. And I am willing to accept that if in the described system both trading methods managed to co-exist indefinitely, then I would be wrong. And certainly if those who support guild-trading lead a successful boycott of the GAH, then I would of course be wrong as well.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Another example where you belittle those who do not support an AH as inexperienced and ill-informed.

There is not a single experienced and well-informed (from other MMOs) BUYER who is AGAINST a global AH ... think about that.

Yes, looking at it now, that statement was badly worded. Since then I have changed my tone.

Now I would present that argument this way:

I cannot imagine that experienced and well-informed buyers would be AGAINST a global AH, because the advantages to the buyer, both serious and casual, are too great to overlook.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

So in the end what you have presented in your OP is really just another AH thread except you call it a hypothesis. In the end you present the same baseless argument as everyone else yet somehow think it is more important.

Such is the nature of thought experiments. You propose something and try to understand what will happen and what it means. I don't think my "thought" is more important than anyone else's, except those who blindly claim that "the Majority" wants guild-traders, end of discussion.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

To prove my point that your thread and your replies are merely nothing more than every other AH thread I will present what you posted on page 2.

It is YOU, the SELLERS in the current system who are actually resisting change, because the prospect of adaptation is too daunting.

That quote serves another great example. Those in support of the guild traders have adapted. They might have resisted change in the beginning, but moved past that. It is probably the most illogical statement made in this entire thread.

I stand by my statement quoted in your quote above. Within the context of ESO, people who engage in guild-trading have adapted to nothing, because that is all that there every was. If the system changed or had to compete concurrently with an alternative system, THEN people would have to adapt, and I think that is what some who support guild-trading fear.

the current system is robust and successful.

Hardly. It's a convoluted mess that makes trading for the masses difficult and time consuming. There's nothing "robust" or "successful" about it. How many people in game don't even bother with it? How anyone can claim that's a success is beyond me.

@Drachenfier all of most kiosks are take each week. 100s of millions of gold change hands evevery week via the guild traders. That means a great many players do bother with it.

Its a week argument to state that some players don't bother with it when many players in any game don't bother with or rarely bother with the AH. No solid foundation there.

Not really a weak argument, considering the amount of people that have admitted they don't bother with this system due to it's overly and completely unnecessarily complicated nature. This game's economy is a wreck, prices are all over the damn place, items are virtually impossible to find. When your trading system's main claim to fame is it's "needle in a haystack" nature, I wouldn't call that successful by any means.

we are all entitled to our oppinions.

FloppyTouch · June 2017

Beardimus wrote: »

Agreed @Sigtric spot on.

On top of that, The idiotic pro AH points on this I've seen are about buying food and potions daily trawls. I seriously do not get why anyone would go to traders daily. Craft the basics - bit then those too lazy to use Guild Traders are probably too lazy to craft items and too lazy to bond with a guild to have things made.

Again on ease I'm in 4 trading guilds. Which means i have access to 4 quality traders at every bank in the land.

Used right the system has everything you need, people are too lazy to bother and want a shortcut.

2 hours of searching for one thing that not lazy you could not be more wrong

When u are looking for one thing and have to move from point to point for hours searching through all the traders in the game just to find no one has it listed or only one guild has it is not just annoying it's time consuming.

Just because you can find everything you need from ur 4 guild traders with ease does not me it's the same from r everyone.

Try finding an impregnable heavy chest sturdy that was a pain in a half and took multiple days to find. If I had an AH where everything was in one spot I could have search spent 5 mins either got it for seen no one had it and got to pvp or pve more but no bc of this stupid broke guild trader system I waisted my game time.

You can not defend that or call it lazy you are wrong

Sigtric · June 2017

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Kurkikohtaus wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

3. What you are doing is thinly veiled as something different. Your arguments clearly indicate you are attempting to do the same thing every one of those pro AH threads have done. You merely state having both in the game will prove something.

I think it would prove something, as stated above. And I am willing to accept that if in the described system both trading methods managed to co-exist indefinitely, then I would be wrong. And certainly if those who support guild-trading lead a successful boycott of the GAH, then I would of course be wrong as well.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Another example where you belittle those who do not support an AH as inexperienced and ill-informed.

There is not a single experienced and well-informed (from other MMOs) BUYER who is AGAINST a global AH ... think about that.

Yes, looking at it now, that statement was badly worded. Since then I have changed my tone.

Now I would present that argument this way:

I cannot imagine that experienced and well-informed buyers would be AGAINST a global AH, because the advantages to the buyer, both serious and casual, are too great to overlook.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

So in the end what you have presented in your OP is really just another AH thread except you call it a hypothesis. In the end you present the same baseless argument as everyone else yet somehow think it is more important.

Such is the nature of thought experiments. You propose something and try to understand what will happen and what it means. I don't think my "thought" is more important than anyone else's, except those who blindly claim that "the Majority" wants guild-traders, end of discussion.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

To prove my point that your thread and your replies are merely nothing more than every other AH thread I will present what you posted on page 2.

It is YOU, the SELLERS in the current system who are actually resisting change, because the prospect of adaptation is too daunting.

That quote serves another great example. Those in support of the guild traders have adapted. They might have resisted change in the beginning, but moved past that. It is probably the most illogical statement made in this entire thread.

I stand by my statement quoted in your quote above. Within the context of ESO, people who engage in guild-trading have adapted to nothing, because that is all that there every was. If the system changed or had to compete concurrently with an alternative system, THEN people would have to adapt, and I think that is what some who support guild-trading fear.

the current system is robust and successful.

Hardly. It's a convoluted mess that makes trading for the masses difficult and time consuming. There's nothing "robust" or "successful" about it. How many people in game don't even bother with it? How anyone can claim that's a success is beyond me.

@Drachenfier all of most kiosks are take each week. 100s of millions of gold change hands evevery week via the guild traders. That means a great many players do bother with it.

Its a week argument to state that some players don't bother with it when many players in any game don't bother with or rarely bother with the AH. No solid foundation there.

Not really a weak argument, considering the amount of people that have admitted they don't bother with this system due to it's overly and completely unnecessarily complicated nature. This game's economy is a wreck, prices are all over the damn place, items are virtually impossible to find. When your trading system's main claim to fame is it's "needle in a haystack" nature, I wouldn't call that successful by any means.

I don't understand where this "complicated" argument comes from. It's one extra step to sell. Join a guild with a trader then list away. Buying, granted they could add some better filters but it's not hard.

Laziness and unwillingness to use something different is what keeps people from using it.

First off, it's a big extra step to sell. You also need to be aware of market value, which requires additional addons because you can only see your own trader's sales at your own kiosk. And then if you aren't in multiple trading guilds with high volumes of sales, MM data is probably off as well so really you need to rely on TTC which is constantly becoming out of date. It's tedious for those of us who really just want to get some coin for an item beyond vendoring it. Those of us who actually manage our money and deal with financial planning IRL don't really want a complicated process in our games, go figure lol.

But our main issue, which I'm gonna keep coming back to until people understand, is buying. For the most part, average / casual / PvE/PvP focused players just want to be able to easily buy what they need and get back to actually playing the game. This system is horrendous for buying. A unified search feature with up-to-date data would be nice, but it's still a huge pain to get to wherever its being sold, and in that time something could easily be bought out and suddenly you've wasted 10 minutes.

It's not a big extra step at all. I've taken the step so I can sell my junk. It works fine. Laziness is the hindering factor.

Knowing market value is no different than on an AH, you still have to do your research one way or another to know.

Buying, again, sure, search could use some help. I agree. I never have trouble finding what I need though, so once more, I just can't see how this is 'difficult'.

Drachenfier · June 2017

Sigtric wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Kurkikohtaus wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

3. What you are doing is thinly veiled as something different. Your arguments clearly indicate you are attempting to do the same thing every one of those pro AH threads have done. You merely state having both in the game will prove something.

I think it would prove something, as stated above. And I am willing to accept that if in the described system both trading methods managed to co-exist indefinitely, then I would be wrong. And certainly if those who support guild-trading lead a successful boycott of the GAH, then I would of course be wrong as well.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Another example where you belittle those who do not support an AH as inexperienced and ill-informed.

There is not a single experienced and well-informed (from other MMOs) BUYER who is AGAINST a global AH ... think about that.

Yes, looking at it now, that statement was badly worded. Since then I have changed my tone.

Now I would present that argument this way:

I cannot imagine that experienced and well-informed buyers would be AGAINST a global AH, because the advantages to the buyer, both serious and casual, are too great to overlook.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

So in the end what you have presented in your OP is really just another AH thread except you call it a hypothesis. In the end you present the same baseless argument as everyone else yet somehow think it is more important.

Such is the nature of thought experiments. You propose something and try to understand what will happen and what it means. I don't think my "thought" is more important than anyone else's, except those who blindly claim that "the Majority" wants guild-traders, end of discussion.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

To prove my point that your thread and your replies are merely nothing more than every other AH thread I will present what you posted on page 2.

It is YOU, the SELLERS in the current system who are actually resisting change, because the prospect of adaptation is too daunting.

That quote serves another great example. Those in support of the guild traders have adapted. They might have resisted change in the beginning, but moved past that. It is probably the most illogical statement made in this entire thread.

I stand by my statement quoted in your quote above. Within the context of ESO, people who engage in guild-trading have adapted to nothing, because that is all that there every was. If the system changed or had to compete concurrently with an alternative system, THEN people would have to adapt, and I think that is what some who support guild-trading fear.

the current system is robust and successful.

Hardly. It's a convoluted mess that makes trading for the masses difficult and time consuming. There's nothing "robust" or "successful" about it. How many people in game don't even bother with it? How anyone can claim that's a success is beyond me.

@Drachenfier all of most kiosks are take each week. 100s of millions of gold change hands evevery week via the guild traders. That means a great many players do bother with it.

Its a week argument to state that some players don't bother with it when many players in any game don't bother with or rarely bother with the AH. No solid foundation there.

Not really a weak argument, considering the amount of people that have admitted they don't bother with this system due to it's overly and completely unnecessarily complicated nature. This game's economy is a wreck, prices are all over the damn place, items are virtually impossible to find. When your trading system's main claim to fame is it's "needle in a haystack" nature, I wouldn't call that successful by any means.

I don't understand where this "complicated" argument comes from. It's one extra step to sell. Join a guild with a trader then list away. Buying, granted they could add some better filters but it's not hard.

Laziness and unwillingness to use something different is what keeps people from using it.

It's not so much the selling that deters me, it's the buying. "it's not hard' is the understatement of the year, if you're trying to find something specific.

edit to add - I"m not a fan of the selling either, due to the factors mentioned by @Crafts_Many_Boxes above.

Kurkikohtaus · June 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

I have strived to avoid the hypothetical pitfall because Zos wanted something more robust and social than the lazy AH.

I am a relatively new player (Nov. 2016) so I have not read anything ZOS may have said about the implementation of guild trading. But if they indeed said that, I believe that was a reverse-engineered argument. I think they could not make an Auction House work technically in this mega-server environment, so they implemented a large number of smaller scale trading nodes that the servers could handle.

From the technical side of things, if an AH is really not technically possible, as some in this thread have pointed out, then the current system is actually an ingenious solution.

Sigtric · June 2017

Drachenfier wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Kurkikohtaus wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

3. What you are doing is thinly veiled as something different. Your arguments clearly indicate you are attempting to do the same thing every one of those pro AH threads have done. You merely state having both in the game will prove something.

I think it would prove something, as stated above. And I am willing to accept that if in the described system both trading methods managed to co-exist indefinitely, then I would be wrong. And certainly if those who support guild-trading lead a successful boycott of the GAH, then I would of course be wrong as well.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Another example where you belittle those who do not support an AH as inexperienced and ill-informed.

There is not a single experienced and well-informed (from other MMOs) BUYER who is AGAINST a global AH ... think about that.

Yes, looking at it now, that statement was badly worded. Since then I have changed my tone.

Now I would present that argument this way:

I cannot imagine that experienced and well-informed buyers would be AGAINST a global AH, because the advantages to the buyer, both serious and casual, are too great to overlook.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

So in the end what you have presented in your OP is really just another AH thread except you call it a hypothesis. In the end you present the same baseless argument as everyone else yet somehow think it is more important.

Such is the nature of thought experiments. You propose something and try to understand what will happen and what it means. I don't think my "thought" is more important than anyone else's, except those who blindly claim that "the Majority" wants guild-traders, end of discussion.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

To prove my point that your thread and your replies are merely nothing more than every other AH thread I will present what you posted on page 2.

It is YOU, the SELLERS in the current system who are actually resisting change, because the prospect of adaptation is too daunting.

That quote serves another great example. Those in support of the guild traders have adapted. They might have resisted change in the beginning, but moved past that. It is probably the most illogical statement made in this entire thread.

I stand by my statement quoted in your quote above. Within the context of ESO, people who engage in guild-trading have adapted to nothing, because that is all that there every was. If the system changed or had to compete concurrently with an alternative system, THEN people would have to adapt, and I think that is what some who support guild-trading fear.

the current system is robust and successful.

Hardly. It's a convoluted mess that makes trading for the masses difficult and time consuming. There's nothing "robust" or "successful" about it. How many people in game don't even bother with it? How anyone can claim that's a success is beyond me.

@Drachenfier all of most kiosks are take each week. 100s of millions of gold change hands evevery week via the guild traders. That means a great many players do bother with it.

Its a week argument to state that some players don't bother with it when many players in any game don't bother with or rarely bother with the AH. No solid foundation there.

Not really a weak argument, considering the amount of people that have admitted they don't bother with this system due to it's overly and completely unnecessarily complicated nature. This game's economy is a wreck, prices are all over the damn place, items are virtually impossible to find. When your trading system's main claim to fame is it's "needle in a haystack" nature, I wouldn't call that successful by any means.

I don't understand where this "complicated" argument comes from. It's one extra step to sell. Join a guild with a trader then list away. Buying, granted they could add some better filters but it's not hard.

Laziness and unwillingness to use something different is what keeps people from using it.

It's not so much the selling that deters me, it's the buying. "it's not hard' is the understatement of the year, if you're trying to find something specific.

edit to add - I"m not a fan of the selling either, due to the factors mentioned by @Crafts_Many_Boxes above.

I'm sorry, it must suck being that incapable. It's not hard to buy things.

Tandor · June 2017

Sigtric wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Kurkikohtaus wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

3. What you are doing is thinly veiled as something different. Your arguments clearly indicate you are attempting to do the same thing every one of those pro AH threads have done. You merely state having both in the game will prove something.

I think it would prove something, as stated above. And I am willing to accept that if in the described system both trading methods managed to co-exist indefinitely, then I would be wrong. And certainly if those who support guild-trading lead a successful boycott of the GAH, then I would of course be wrong as well.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Another example where you belittle those who do not support an AH as inexperienced and ill-informed.

There is not a single experienced and well-informed (from other MMOs) BUYER who is AGAINST a global AH ... think about that.

Yes, looking at it now, that statement was badly worded. Since then I have changed my tone.

Now I would present that argument this way:

I cannot imagine that experienced and well-informed buyers would be AGAINST a global AH, because the advantages to the buyer, both serious and casual, are too great to overlook.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

So in the end what you have presented in your OP is really just another AH thread except you call it a hypothesis. In the end you present the same baseless argument as everyone else yet somehow think it is more important.

Such is the nature of thought experiments. You propose something and try to understand what will happen and what it means. I don't think my "thought" is more important than anyone else's, except those who blindly claim that "the Majority" wants guild-traders, end of discussion.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

To prove my point that your thread and your replies are merely nothing more than every other AH thread I will present what you posted on page 2.

It is YOU, the SELLERS in the current system who are actually resisting change, because the prospect of adaptation is too daunting.

That quote serves another great example. Those in support of the guild traders have adapted. They might have resisted change in the beginning, but moved past that. It is probably the most illogical statement made in this entire thread.

I stand by my statement quoted in your quote above. Within the context of ESO, people who engage in guild-trading have adapted to nothing, because that is all that there every was. If the system changed or had to compete concurrently with an alternative system, THEN people would have to adapt, and I think that is what some who support guild-trading fear.

the current system is robust and successful.

Hardly. It's a convoluted mess that makes trading for the masses difficult and time consuming. There's nothing "robust" or "successful" about it. How many people in game don't even bother with it? How anyone can claim that's a success is beyond me.

@Drachenfier all of most kiosks are take each week. 100s of millions of gold change hands evevery week via the guild traders. That means a great many players do bother with it.

Its a week argument to state that some players don't bother with it when many players in any game don't bother with or rarely bother with the AH. No solid foundation there.

Not really a weak argument, considering the amount of people that have admitted they don't bother with this system due to it's overly and completely unnecessarily complicated nature. This game's economy is a wreck, prices are all over the damn place, items are virtually impossible to find. When your trading system's main claim to fame is it's "needle in a haystack" nature, I wouldn't call that successful by any means.

I don't understand where this "complicated" argument comes from. It's one extra step to sell. Join a guild with a trader then list away. Buying, granted they could add some better filters but it's not hard.

Laziness and unwillingness to use something different is what keeps people from using it.

That's simply not the case. There are plenty of players in MMOs who don't consider themselves serious sellers, they aren't high-level farmers, they just like to put the odd rare drop or some mat stacks up for sale from time to time as they level through the game, and while they have no trouble with their approach to trading in any other MMO the fact is that in ESO the guild trader system just doesn't cater for them. You'll doubtless counter that they can sell through zone chat, but that isn't a trading system per se and it raises all the usual scamming opportunities that a structured trading system prevents. Most players in that position simply bank their surplus stuff, dump it on a mule, or sell it for little or nothing to an NPC merchant.

Drachenfier · June 2017

Sigtric wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Kurkikohtaus wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

3. What you are doing is thinly veiled as something different. Your arguments clearly indicate you are attempting to do the same thing every one of those pro AH threads have done. You merely state having both in the game will prove something.

I think it would prove something, as stated above. And I am willing to accept that if in the described system both trading methods managed to co-exist indefinitely, then I would be wrong. And certainly if those who support guild-trading lead a successful boycott of the GAH, then I would of course be wrong as well.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Another example where you belittle those who do not support an AH as inexperienced and ill-informed.

There is not a single experienced and well-informed (from other MMOs) BUYER who is AGAINST a global AH ... think about that.

Yes, looking at it now, that statement was badly worded. Since then I have changed my tone.

Now I would present that argument this way:

I cannot imagine that experienced and well-informed buyers would be AGAINST a global AH, because the advantages to the buyer, both serious and casual, are too great to overlook.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

So in the end what you have presented in your OP is really just another AH thread except you call it a hypothesis. In the end you present the same baseless argument as everyone else yet somehow think it is more important.

Such is the nature of thought experiments. You propose something and try to understand what will happen and what it means. I don't think my "thought" is more important than anyone else's, except those who blindly claim that "the Majority" wants guild-traders, end of discussion.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

To prove my point that your thread and your replies are merely nothing more than every other AH thread I will present what you posted on page 2.

It is YOU, the SELLERS in the current system who are actually resisting change, because the prospect of adaptation is too daunting.

That quote serves another great example. Those in support of the guild traders have adapted. They might have resisted change in the beginning, but moved past that. It is probably the most illogical statement made in this entire thread.

I stand by my statement quoted in your quote above. Within the context of ESO, people who engage in guild-trading have adapted to nothing, because that is all that there every was. If the system changed or had to compete concurrently with an alternative system, THEN people would have to adapt, and I think that is what some who support guild-trading fear.

the current system is robust and successful.

Hardly. It's a convoluted mess that makes trading for the masses difficult and time consuming. There's nothing "robust" or "successful" about it. How many people in game don't even bother with it? How anyone can claim that's a success is beyond me.

@Drachenfier all of most kiosks are take each week. 100s of millions of gold change hands evevery week via the guild traders. That means a great many players do bother with it.

Its a week argument to state that some players don't bother with it when many players in any game don't bother with or rarely bother with the AH. No solid foundation there.

Not really a weak argument, considering the amount of people that have admitted they don't bother with this system due to it's overly and completely unnecessarily complicated nature. This game's economy is a wreck, prices are all over the damn place, items are virtually impossible to find. When your trading system's main claim to fame is it's "needle in a haystack" nature, I wouldn't call that successful by any means.

I don't understand where this "complicated" argument comes from. It's one extra step to sell. Join a guild with a trader then list away. Buying, granted they could add some better filters but it's not hard.

Laziness and unwillingness to use something different is what keeps people from using it.

It's not so much the selling that deters me, it's the buying. "it's not hard' is the understatement of the year, if you're trying to find something specific.

edit to add - I"m not a fan of the selling either, due to the factors mentioned by @Crafts_Many_Boxes above.

I'm sorry, it must suck being that incapable. It's not hard to buy things.

It is when you can't find them, genius.

Sigtric · June 2017

Tandor wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Kurkikohtaus wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

3. What you are doing is thinly veiled as something different. Your arguments clearly indicate you are attempting to do the same thing every one of those pro AH threads have done. You merely state having both in the game will prove something.

I think it would prove something, as stated above. And I am willing to accept that if in the described system both trading methods managed to co-exist indefinitely, then I would be wrong. And certainly if those who support guild-trading lead a successful boycott of the GAH, then I would of course be wrong as well.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Another example where you belittle those who do not support an AH as inexperienced and ill-informed.

There is not a single experienced and well-informed (from other MMOs) BUYER who is AGAINST a global AH ... think about that.

Yes, looking at it now, that statement was badly worded. Since then I have changed my tone.

Now I would present that argument this way:

I cannot imagine that experienced and well-informed buyers would be AGAINST a global AH, because the advantages to the buyer, both serious and casual, are too great to overlook.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

So in the end what you have presented in your OP is really just another AH thread except you call it a hypothesis. In the end you present the same baseless argument as everyone else yet somehow think it is more important.

Such is the nature of thought experiments. You propose something and try to understand what will happen and what it means. I don't think my "thought" is more important than anyone else's, except those who blindly claim that "the Majority" wants guild-traders, end of discussion.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

To prove my point that your thread and your replies are merely nothing more than every other AH thread I will present what you posted on page 2.

It is YOU, the SELLERS in the current system who are actually resisting change, because the prospect of adaptation is too daunting.

That quote serves another great example. Those in support of the guild traders have adapted. They might have resisted change in the beginning, but moved past that. It is probably the most illogical statement made in this entire thread.

I stand by my statement quoted in your quote above. Within the context of ESO, people who engage in guild-trading have adapted to nothing, because that is all that there every was. If the system changed or had to compete concurrently with an alternative system, THEN people would have to adapt, and I think that is what some who support guild-trading fear.

the current system is robust and successful.

Hardly. It's a convoluted mess that makes trading for the masses difficult and time consuming. There's nothing "robust" or "successful" about it. How many people in game don't even bother with it? How anyone can claim that's a success is beyond me.

@Drachenfier all of most kiosks are take each week. 100s of millions of gold change hands evevery week via the guild traders. That means a great many players do bother with it.

Its a week argument to state that some players don't bother with it when many players in any game don't bother with or rarely bother with the AH. No solid foundation there.

Not really a weak argument, considering the amount of people that have admitted they don't bother with this system due to it's overly and completely unnecessarily complicated nature. This game's economy is a wreck, prices are all over the damn place, items are virtually impossible to find. When your trading system's main claim to fame is it's "needle in a haystack" nature, I wouldn't call that successful by any means.

I don't understand where this "complicated" argument comes from. It's one extra step to sell. Join a guild with a trader then list away. Buying, granted they could add some better filters but it's not hard.

Laziness and unwillingness to use something different is what keeps people from using it.

That's simply not the case. There are plenty of players in MMOs who don't consider themselves serious sellers, they aren't high-level farmers, they just like to put the odd rare drop or some mat stacks up for sale from time to time as they level through the game, and the guild trader system just doesn't cater for them. You'll doubtless counter that they can sell through zone chat, but that isn't a trading system per se and it raises all the usual scamming opportunities that a structured trading system prevents. Most players in that position simply bank their surplus stuff, dump it on a mule, or sell it for little or nothing to an NPC merchant.

My counter is to simply add the single extra step. Join a guild with a trader. Then list just like you would on a AH. It's what I did and I'll be damned if it didn't work.

Beardimus · June 2017

Good debate, as ever. But horse is dead. Nothing new uncovered, nothing gained. But a good time waster

vive la Guild Trader

AlnilamE · June 2017

Ostaradoe wrote: »

I have not joined any trade guilds in ESO because I am put off by the strict criteria. I am not a farmer or massive gold chaser, but would like to be able to sell the odd piece of armour or stack of mats I no longer need. There is nowhere I can do this other than in chat which is tedious.

Actually, you are wrong about this. There are a number of smaller social guilds who do manage to secure traders on a regular basis, and even if they don't, their guild store works internally.

I am in a couple of guilds that have an internal store but no trader, and I still make a point of listing items there that I think people can use.

If all you want is to be able to sell the odd item here and there, then finding a social guild that tries to keep a trader seems like a good fit for you.

AlnilamE · June 2017

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

First off, it's a big extra step to sell. You also need to be aware of market value, which requires additional addons because you can only see your own trader's sales at your own kiosk. And then if you aren't in multiple trading guilds with high volumes of sales, MM data is probably off as well so really you need to rely on TTC which is constantly becoming out of date. It's tedious for those of us who really just want to get some coin for an item beyond vendoring it. Those of us who actually manage our money and deal with financial planning IRL don't really want a complicated process in our games, go figure lol.

But our main issue, which I'm gonna keep coming back to until people understand, is buying. For the most part, average / casual / PvE/PvP focused players just want to be able to easily buy what they need and get back to actually playing the game. This system is horrendous for buying. A unified search feature with up-to-date data would be nice, but it's still a huge pain to get to wherever its being sold, and in that time something could easily be bought out and suddenly you've wasted 10 minutes.

What exactly are you trying to buy that is not available at the traders in any of the major hubs? How hard is it to get otherwise? How sought after is the item?

Unless you are looking for something really particular, like a sharpened weapon or a specific purple recipe, you can pretty much find everything at one of the major hubs. Maybe not at the price you want, but that's a different matter.

Tandor · June 2017

Sigtric wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Drachenfier wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Kurkikohtaus wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

3. What you are doing is thinly veiled as something different. Your arguments clearly indicate you are attempting to do the same thing every one of those pro AH threads have done. You merely state having both in the game will prove something.

I think it would prove something, as stated above. And I am willing to accept that if in the described system both trading methods managed to co-exist indefinitely, then I would be wrong. And certainly if those who support guild-trading lead a successful boycott of the GAH, then I would of course be wrong as well.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Another example where you belittle those who do not support an AH as inexperienced and ill-informed.

There is not a single experienced and well-informed (from other MMOs) BUYER who is AGAINST a global AH ... think about that.

Yes, looking at it now, that statement was badly worded. Since then I have changed my tone.

Now I would present that argument this way:

I cannot imagine that experienced and well-informed buyers would be AGAINST a global AH, because the advantages to the buyer, both serious and casual, are too great to overlook.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

So in the end what you have presented in your OP is really just another AH thread except you call it a hypothesis. In the end you present the same baseless argument as everyone else yet somehow think it is more important.

Such is the nature of thought experiments. You propose something and try to understand what will happen and what it means. I don't think my "thought" is more important than anyone else's, except those who blindly claim that "the Majority" wants guild-traders, end of discussion.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

To prove my point that your thread and your replies are merely nothing more than every other AH thread I will present what you posted on page 2.

It is YOU, the SELLERS in the current system who are actually resisting change, because the prospect of adaptation is too daunting.

That quote serves another great example. Those in support of the guild traders have adapted. They might have resisted change in the beginning, but moved past that. It is probably the most illogical statement made in this entire thread.

I stand by my statement quoted in your quote above. Within the context of ESO, people who engage in guild-trading have adapted to nothing, because that is all that there every was. If the system changed or had to compete concurrently with an alternative system, THEN people would have to adapt, and I think that is what some who support guild-trading fear.

the current system is robust and successful.

Hardly. It's a convoluted mess that makes trading for the masses difficult and time consuming. There's nothing "robust" or "successful" about it. How many people in game don't even bother with it? How anyone can claim that's a success is beyond me.

@Drachenfier all of most kiosks are take each week. 100s of millions of gold change hands evevery week via the guild traders. That means a great many players do bother with it.

Its a week argument to state that some players don't bother with it when many players in any game don't bother with or rarely bother with the AH. No solid foundation there.

Not really a weak argument, considering the amount of people that have admitted they don't bother with this system due to it's overly and completely unnecessarily complicated nature. This game's economy is a wreck, prices are all over the damn place, items are virtually impossible to find. When your trading system's main claim to fame is it's "needle in a haystack" nature, I wouldn't call that successful by any means.

I don't understand where this "complicated" argument comes from. It's one extra step to sell. Join a guild with a trader then list away. Buying, granted they could add some better filters but it's not hard.

Laziness and unwillingness to use something different is what keeps people from using it.

That's simply not the case. There are plenty of players in MMOs who don't consider themselves serious sellers, they aren't high-level farmers, they just like to put the odd rare drop or some mat stacks up for sale from time to time as they level through the game, and the guild trader system just doesn't cater for them. You'll doubtless counter that they can sell through zone chat, but that isn't a trading system per se and it raises all the usual scamming opportunities that a structured trading system prevents. Most players in that position simply bank their surplus stuff, dump it on a mule, or sell it for little or nothing to an NPC merchant.

My counter is to simply add the single extra step. Join a guild with a trader. Then list just like you would on a AH. It's what I did and I'll be damned if it didn't work.

That's fine if you don't mind being kicked a few days later when you've only listed a single item. I'm not sure if that's what you meant to happen, join a guild to sell an item or two and then another one a few months later when you have another item or two to sell, or whether you didn't really read my post.

As I've already explained in this thread, I'd be perfectly happy with the present system from a selling point of view if there was a NPC trader in the main trader locations through whom a very small number of items could be listed by anyone at a high commission to be shared between the guilds trading in that location. That way everyone could participate, whether serious sellers through their guilds or casual ones through the NPC.

QuebraRegra · June 2017

I'd be able to find the gear I want in game, without using an external app, and without having to waste hours traveling all over creation to get it.

AUCTION HOUSE!

Crafts_Many_Boxes · June 2017

AlnilamE wrote: »

Ostaradoe wrote: »

I have not joined any trade guilds in ESO because I am put off by the strict criteria. I am not a farmer or massive gold chaser, but would like to be able to sell the odd piece of armour or stack of mats I no longer need. There is nowhere I can do this other than in chat which is tedious.

Actually, you are wrong about this. There are a number of smaller social guilds who do manage to secure traders on a regular basis, and even if they don't, their guild store works internally.

I am in a couple of guilds that have an internal store but no trader, and I still make a point of listing items there that I think people can use.

If all you want is to be able to sell the odd item here and there, then finding a social guild that tries to keep a trader seems like a good fit for you.

Notice how you're offering unappealing alternatives that are created as a consequence of the current system. A market of 2500 people tops (assuming you're only in trade guilds, and those guilds have no kiosk) is not going to buy your wares very often, especially if they're obscure. If you're an average player and barely post any items to begin with, you'll quickly become disillusioned with the guild traders in general and just give up on the economy.

And giving up on the economy is what this whole system breeds. There's the traders, off in their own little world making the vast majority of all gold, and the rest of us who dread the idea of even needing to use the kiosks because of how much of a pain they are. Like I've been saying, I'd be shocked if more than 25% of the playerbase makes 1 sale and 1 buy per week. Shocked.

Great system though, working like a charm lol. Way to keep those filthy non-trader peasants in line, how dare they try and use the "free" market!

old_mufasa · June 2017

It would stop the monopoly of a few trade guilds...

It would create a larger trade community...

It would lower prices as more people would be able to trade effectively...

It would lower the amount of trade spam in chat as those people would be able to trade their goods...

Most people would rejoice over the change..

The minority of people.. mainly those people who are monopolizing the current system would come to the forums screaming, complaining and such.

But until they add just a simple text search to guild traders.. it would be a mess going through thousands of pages of auctions to find one item.

Tandor · June 2017

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Ostaradoe wrote: »

I have not joined any trade guilds in ESO because I am put off by the strict criteria. I am not a farmer or massive gold chaser, but would like to be able to sell the odd piece of armour or stack of mats I no longer need. There is nowhere I can do this other than in chat which is tedious.

Actually, you are wrong about this. There are a number of smaller social guilds who do manage to secure traders on a regular basis, and even if they don't, their guild store works internally.

I am in a couple of guilds that have an internal store but no trader, and I still make a point of listing items there that I think people can use.

If all you want is to be able to sell the odd item here and there, then finding a social guild that tries to keep a trader seems like a good fit for you.

Notice how you're offering unappealing alternatives that are created as a consequence of the current system. A market of 2500 people tops (assuming you're only in trade guilds, and those guilds have no kiosk) is not going to buy your wares very often, especially if they're obscure. If you're an average player and barely post any items to begin with, you'll quickly become disillusioned with the guild traders in general and just give up on the economy.

And giving up on the economy is what this whole system breeds. There's the traders, off in their own little world making the vast majority of all gold, and the rest of us who dread the idea of even needing to use the kiosks because of how much of a pain they are. Like I've been saying, I'd be shocked if more than 25% of the playerbase makes 1 sale and 1 buy per week. Shocked.

Great system though, working like a charm lol. Way to keep those filthy non-trader peasants in line, how dare they try and use the "free" market!

Keeps those peasants out of the manor houses too

!

I_killed_Vivec · June 2017

Still going eh?

Still the same old nonsense being spouted about getting booted in a couple of days if you don't make as sale? Or the number of trader slots available (people always forget there are two servers, three platforms... six times as many potential traders as they choose to state). Or the amount of gold that you have to pony up just to be a member of the trading elite...

Still the same old inconsistencies... major trading locations run by cartels, minor traders forced to sell at low prices (isn't that what you want?). Buying is such a pain, traders make too much money (really... but you said buying was so difficult...). There's no other way to sell... chat is full of people selling! The top guilds boot you out if you don't sell, and yet they guarantee themselves and their mates the top sales from the prime locations.

If you have ever been in a top trader guild, selling in a top location, and you haven't made a sale then you are either an idiot, or indolent, or both. And don't deserve to deprive another seller of the chance to sell...

I understand that some people find shopping a chore, and so want things made easier for them.

I can see that traders don't want those unhappy shoppers trashing what is a vital part of the game for them, just so that someone else gets a good deal in seconds and can go about what they enjoy.

But let's be honest about the current system because it isn't as bad as frequently portrayed and it does give a lot of enjoyment to people who want to trade. Buying isn't particularly onerous, and if you are looking for something ultra-specific then maybe it should be a bit difficult...

And above all, if we are to have a sensible discussion about trading then we really do need to drop the entitlement...

"I want it now, at a price I want to pay, so that I can go and do what I want to do (and I don't care if it spoils what you want to do)"

Demycilian · June 2017

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Still going eh?

Still the same old nonsense being spouted about getting booted in a couple of days if you don't make as sale? Or the number of trader slots available (people always forget there are two servers, three platforms... six times as many potential traders as they choose to state). Or the amount of gold that you have to pony up just to be a member of the trading elite...

Still the same old inconsistencies... major trading locations run by cartels, minor traders forced to sell at low prices (isn't that what you want?). Buying is such a pain, traders make too much money (really... but you said buying was so difficult...). There's no other way to sell... chat is full of people selling! The top guilds boot you out if you don't sell, and yet they guarantee themselves and their mates the top sales from the prime locations.

If you have ever been in a top trader guild, selling in a top location, and you haven't made a sale then you are either an idiot, or indolent, or both. And don't deserve to deprive another seller of the chance to sell...

I understand that some people find shopping a chore, and so want things made easier for them.

I can see that traders don't want those unhappy shoppers trashing what is a vital part of the game for them, just so that someone else gets a good deal in seconds and can go about what they enjoy.

But let's be honest about the current system because it isn't as bad as frequently portrayed and it does give a lot of enjoyment to people who want to trade. Buying isn't particularly onerous, and if you are looking for something ultra-specific then maybe it should be a bit difficult...

And above all, if we are to have a sensible discussion about trading then we really do need to drop the entitlement...

"I want it now, at a price I want to pay, so that I can go and do what I want to do (and I don't care if it spoils what you want to do)"

So, is he a member of the "trade guild elite" thats sitting on all the best spots or not? I cant quite tell.

idk · June 2017

Demycilian wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Still going eh?

Still the same old nonsense being spouted about getting booted in a couple of days if you don't make as sale? Or the number of trader slots available (people always forget there are two servers, three platforms... six times as many potential traders as they choose to state). Or the amount of gold that you have to pony up just to be a member of the trading elite...

Still the same old inconsistencies... major trading locations run by cartels, minor traders forced to sell at low prices (isn't that what you want?). Buying is such a pain, traders make too much money (really... but you said buying was so difficult...). There's no other way to sell... chat is full of people selling! The top guilds boot you out if you don't sell, and yet they guarantee themselves and their mates the top sales from the prime locations.

If you have ever been in a top trader guild, selling in a top location, and you haven't made a sale then you are either an idiot, or indolent, or both. And don't deserve to deprive another seller of the chance to sell...

I understand that some people find shopping a chore, and so want things made easier for them.

I can see that traders don't want those unhappy shoppers trashing what is a vital part of the game for them, just so that someone else gets a good deal in seconds and can go about what they enjoy.

But let's be honest about the current system because it isn't as bad as frequently portrayed and it does give a lot of enjoyment to people who want to trade. Buying isn't particularly onerous, and if you are looking for something ultra-specific then maybe it should be a bit difficult...

And above all, if we are to have a sensible discussion about trading then we really do need to drop the entitlement...

"I want it now, at a price I want to pay, so that I can go and do what I want to do (and I don't care if it spoils what you want to do)"

So, is he a member of the "trade guild elite" thats sitting on all the best spots or not? I cant quite tell.

@Demycilian

So someone expresses their thoughts in a forum intended for such things and your best reply is a lame attempt to invalidate his oppinion?

AlnilamE · June 2017

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Ostaradoe wrote: »

I have not joined any trade guilds in ESO because I am put off by the strict criteria. I am not a farmer or massive gold chaser, but would like to be able to sell the odd piece of armour or stack of mats I no longer need. There is nowhere I can do this other than in chat which is tedious.

Actually, you are wrong about this. There are a number of smaller social guilds who do manage to secure traders on a regular basis, and even if they don't, their guild store works internally.

I am in a couple of guilds that have an internal store but no trader, and I still make a point of listing items there that I think people can use.

If all you want is to be able to sell the odd item here and there, then finding a social guild that tries to keep a trader seems like a good fit for you.

Notice how you're offering unappealing alternatives that are created as a consequence of the current system. A market of 2500 people tops (assuming you're only in trade guilds, and those guilds have no kiosk) is not going to buy your wares very often, especially if they're obscure. If you're an average player and barely post any items to begin with, you'll quickly become disillusioned with the guild traders in general and just give up on the economy.

And giving up on the economy is what this whole system breeds. There's the traders, off in their own little world making the vast majority of all gold, and the rest of us who dread the idea of even needing to use the kiosks because of how much of a pain they are. Like I've been saying, I'd be shocked if more than 25% of the playerbase makes 1 sale and 1 buy per week. Shocked.

Great system though, working like a charm lol. Way to keep those filthy non-trader peasants in line, how dare they try and use the "free" market!

Well, the scenario you described was someone who wants to off-load the occasional item or stack of materials. If it's an item people actually WANT to buy, they will buy it in-guild just as well as out of it. I think for that scenario, an out-of-town trader from a guild that is not keen on kicking people who don't meet a sales quota is a reasonable option.

I certainly make more than one sale per week. Buying it depends, because I prefer to get what I need myself. But I do check traders I come across for items on my "want" list. If they have them, good. If not, it's not a big deal.