[Hypothetical] What would happen if there WERE a global AH?

Absolut_Turkey

Uh...the vast majority DO NOT WANT a global AH. How do I know? Because there have been COUNTLESS posts and polls about this topic since the game came out. The topic of the global AH has been discussed and debated to death. This topic is a dead horse. Stop beating it.

Beardimus

^ absolut-ely spot on!

notimetocare

Simple:
1. Buyers would be ecstatic for a short period as prices for everything plummeted.
2. The majority of buyers would be resellers. There are players with 10+ million gold. Gold tempers would liekly drop by 1/3 to half. Those rich players? They know how to manipulate a game market.
3. After a few months of price drop, the common price fixing present in every MMO auction house takes over. The average player can still make money undercutting, but usually they are selling to the big buyers who resell for 10-20% more than the first seller made. People that need to buy xTempers for their gear have to get lucky or pay the big guys jacked up prices.
4. Alchemy mats would follow suit, but slower (easier to get on someones own time than tempers)
5. By the time alchemy mats were controlled by a handful of big buyers, gear would have fallen cheap enough for the average player to buy, while big buyers now have tons of extra gold. Gear, which was once too costly to corner the market on, is now cheap and big buyers have the resources to control it. Not all of it, just the key, important pieces like your weapons or small slot world drops (that currently tend to be 2-3x the prices for say chest or legs).
6. Now everything important is controlled by a few dozen people. Sure, you can farm it yourself or farm the gold. It is not as if these people price items where they cannot be bought, but the 'good deals' are dead. Competition is dead. And one of the bigger issues? Gold goes nowhere. Traders drain millions from the economy weekly.

Dont believe this? Go play any MMORPG with an AH. Find the important resources. You will find a handful of people control the majority of the market.

Beardimus

I understand what you 'say' you are trying to do, But still @Kurkikohtaus it makes no sense. And i think I'm gunna be unable to articulate how skewed i think your case is. The two could not run concurrently, as immediately one would undermine the other. It's not a good argument.

It terms of wrecking a part of the game many enjoy, How about traders want all PvE content made easier. They HATE PvE. It gets in the way of their precious trading time. So they campaign for PvE to be made way easier so that content is trashed for you. You can choose to do the Vet Dungeon and earn your Monster Helm the current way OR go in easy mode and have double drop rate too. Would that be ok? I'm sure hyperthetically speaking new comers would love it and lap up the later. Love having all the gear. Would it be cool? No you would lose your price on items of trade, and a area of the game that's balances ans ok right now would be ruined..

I know you will not see the case. You have cherry picked your responses right thru this thread, so I'm outta here. But ill close by saying its a nonsense argument to try to make another AH case. And thank crud there isn't one else it would be another area of the game dead to me..

CromulentForumID

Absolut_Turkey wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

What would actually happen....

The market would crash, but only after the servers crash on and off for two weeks.

The realistic impacts are Guilds will break apart and the game would eventually fracture and die.
I know it seems like a global auction house is a good thing, BUT thats for games with segmented populations already.


Essentially it works if you cut the mega server per platform and per region into 1/16 ths but global.....NO GAME IS DOING THAT because its too much.

You all have to understand that the only reason there is gold now is due to this market design.
There is no money and the only game that tried this was Diablo 3 for PC. I don't' think I need to further explain the impacts.

Just understand that it wont work in favor of anyone as prices would go up....but eventually if every gets what they want for this.

1. Large portions of the population will farm to sale
2. The AH become overfilled with thousands of the same items
3. People then try to control the market buying things in large bulk, to resale higher....resulting in higher prices
4. Every now and then, groups come in to undercut, and those are bought up and listed high
5. People will keep asking for more BoE to sale


End result
-No one makes any money cause the market crashes due to exponential costs of listing tons of items and no one buying them due to lack of money and over-saturation.

THIS!
And just so we're clear, the majority of players DO NOT WANT a centralized AH. We've been over this...COUNTLESS times.

Can we stop with the arguments that a majority of players want this system or that system? We honestly have no clue one way or another. Not enough players visit the forums to be able to use a forum poll, talking to your friends doesn't count, telling us what you saw in zone chat doesn't count.

"Everyone knows that" arguments are a fantastic indicator that the person is wrong. You don't have to try so hard to convince people of something that everyone really does know. You can also use numbers or some kind of proof instead of just brushing that pesky evidence thing aside.

Kurkikohtaus

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Yet you use the same types empty assumptions and guesses you complain that they use

...

Here you accuse trader supporters of one thing then turn around and do exactly what you accuse them of.

That is just one case in point. You say their argument is empty when yours is just as empty.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO at this point I am going to call you out, I think you are trolling me or baiting me or both. So be it, I will allow myself to be baited for the sake of this argument that I do care about.

Case 1 - there are some on the forums in discussions similar to this one who state that "the majority" prefer the current guild-trader model. That statement is meant to terminate all discussion as if saying "you who want this are in the minority, so shut up". But this claim is baseless for two reasons. First of all, those who participate in forum discussions are but a small and insignificant percentage of the entire player population. Secondly, there is not even a clear consensus here on the forums. This is perception bias at best, or blatant ignorance at worst.

Case 2 - I am doing something completely different. I am trying to draw inference based on how I believe people would behave in a certain scenario. Of course I am guessing. But I am predicting a trend and trying to understand what various behaviours within that scenario might mean. If the ESO population as a whole moves away from the current model, it means the majority actually did not prefer that model, and those who did followed that majority to the GAH out of necessity, so as to continue to participate and compete economically.

Other outcomes are possible. Vocal supporters could boycott a new GAH and convince others to do the same. They might coexist for some time, or forever, or perhaps after an initial swell, the GAH would die and the population would move back to the guild-trader system. That would mean that enough people prefer the guild-trader system to keep it alive and relevant. I acknowledge the theoretical possibility of this outcome and respect what it means. But in my opinion, I cannot envision that scenario, however possible.

Analyzing trends, understanding mass-economic-behaviour. That is what I am trying to do.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO if you cannot distinguish between the two cases that I have just laid out then you are, as I said, either trolling me, or perhaps I am simply unable to make my point clearly enough. I will continue to try until you understand.

Kurkikohtaus

Absolut_Turkey wrote: »

Uh...the vast majority DO NOT WANT a global AH. How do I know? Because there have been COUNTLESS posts and polls about this topic since the game came out. The topic of the global AH has been discussed and debated to death. This topic is a dead horse. Stop beating it.

@Absolut_Turkey do you understand ...

1 - that the posts and polls are not COUNTLESS. They are finite, and one could actually go through each and every one and tally every "For" and "Against" user.

2 - let us say just to pull a number out of a hat, that 1000 people over the years here at the forums WANTED a GAH, and 3000 people did not. Are you aware of what a small portion of the entire player population that is?

3 - are you willing to accept the possibility, that the tally is actually closer to 50/50, and that it only seems to you that it is higher because of perception bias?

4 - are you willing to accept the possibility that many people on the forums who DO want a GAH do not participate in the discussion because they know it is pointless? (because ZOS will never implement one)

CromulentForumID wrote: »

Can we stop with the arguments that a majority of players want this system or that system? We honestly have no clue one way or another.

And indeed, I am by no means saying that the outcome of my scenario is necessarily the only one, see above.

CromulentForumID wrote: »

"Everyone knows that" arguments are a fantastic indicator that the person is wrong. You don't have to try so hard to convince people of something that everyone really does know.

@Absolut_Turkey this is another way to say what I have been saying.

idk

@Kurkikohtaus

LOL. Not trolling and there is not need to try to bait you.

1. The arguments on both sides are mostly empty. You have fallen into the same hyperbole as everyone else which I have pointed out multiple times.

Example of your comments from page 5 (there are more but this is a good one)

What I am trying to say is that those who like the system and believe that they are in the majority are wrong.

3. What you are doing is thinly veiled as something different. Your arguments clearly indicate you are attempting to do the same thing every one of those pro AH threads have done. You merely state having both in the game will prove something.

Another example where you belittle those who do not support an AH as inexperienced and ill-informed. And you suggest I may be baiting or trolling. This is your comment from page 2.

There is not a single experienced and well-informed (from other MMOs) BUYER who is AGAINST a global AH ... think about that.

So in the end what you have presented in your OP is really just another AH thread except you call it a hypothesis. In the end you present the same baseless argument as everyone else yet somehow think it is more important. You even admit you have no proof and it is merely your opinion, yet you continue as though it has greater meaning than anyone else.

To prove my point that your thread and your replies are merely nothing more than every other AH thread I will present what you posted on page 2.

It is YOU, the SELLERS in the current system who are actually resisting change, because the prospect of adaptation is too daunting.

That quote serves another great example. Those in support of the guild traders have adapted. They might have resisted change in the beginning, but moved past that. It is probably the most illogical statement made in this entire thread. Odd how that really works.

I hope I have made myself clearer since I have basically repeated myself a few times here.

CaptainBeerDude

Malibulove wrote: »

CaptainBeerDude wrote: »

Malibulove wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Malibulove wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Malibulove wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Malibulove wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Kurkikohtaus wrote: »

Many threads have been born about the lack of a global Auction House, they die, and then invariably resurface. We all know the "for" and "against" arguments in an EITHER / OR context, but let's take a look at the situation through a hypothetical scenario:

What would happen if ZOS did indeed introduce a global, server-wide one-stop auction house, the type found in WoW and SWTOR? And what if it was introduced IN PARALLEL to the existing system, so that they coincided?

My prediction is this: the thousands upon thousands of people who do not have access to good trading guilds would begin to sell their wares en masse in the new auction house, people would be undercutting each other on an hourly basis and prices for commodities and items alike would plummet due to their sheer availability. In a very short time, no one would visit guild traders anymore, because you would be guaranteed a lower price and a much more user-friendly search mechanism (with add-on help, of course) than at a trader.

In short, regardless of the positives that the guild trader system brings, the silent majority that vastly outnumbers the vocal few who support the guild trader mechanism would finally make their voice heard by selling commodities and items CHEAPLY and TO ALL on the open market.

And then as soon as the price dropped enough....someone comes along with 20 million gold, buys all the tempering alloys and jacks up the price 500% and reslists them. They cant do that now without visiting each and every guild trader. Rinse and repeat for every high demand item.

Lol people always say this, but I think you forget that an individual only has 30 listings.

If the floodgates were opened it wouldn't matter if you had infinite money it would be your 30 listings vs Millions. Even if you could buy up every single item and had inventory space for it somehow, the fact you couldn't sell but 0.0001% of it at a time would mean the market would continue to bottom out.

The only reason re-selling works now, is because the good sales spots are hard capped at 15,000, and most the playerbase has no selling power.

Depends how you're packaging stuff, and what you're selling. I mean, I usually sell Kutas in packages of 5, and most gold upgrade mats in packages of 8. Saves on slots.

That won't stop demand though, if 1000 players need Kuta, it's irrelevant how you package it you can't meet that demand no matter how much you buy and resell.

My point is power users impact the market less in an AH system, not more.

If 1000 players need Kuta the auction house is the perfect system to inflate prices. Buy the low priced ones and either relist them at a higher price or sit on them. Two or three people can watch the auction house for a couple of days and really force the price up simply by purchasing the lower priced Kuta. Once the price increases enough for a decent profit come in just under the artificial price you just created and sell like crazy. It isn't hard to do at all with only a few people willing to work together when everything is listed in one place. Power players will dominate an auction house or at least select items in the auction house. Scattering the product across many independent vendors helps slow the power players down but even with that there have been a few minor successes at manipulating prices on mid range items. One was when some players on the PTS realized there would be an increased demand for a particular item after an upgrade and went on a buying spree before the launch. Was a minor inconvenience for a few days with traders would have been a much greater problem had there been one central location.

90 Slots won't inflate anything though.

2 or 3 players can't impact anything because a couple dozen undercuts will pop up for every price guage they try to run.

A handful of players simply don't have enough sale slots to meet the demand of all materials and items, the market will bypass them with ease.

I think you may have missed a critical portion of how supply and demand work.

You see, supply is what drives the price down. So, if there's a lot of something available, then it will be cheaper than if it's rare or relatively rare.

Demand drives the price up. So if people want or need something, that increases its value.

So, if you can artificially deplete the supply, while demand remains the same, the price will go up. The market won't, "bypass," this, because the supply is still diminished, and as a result the price will remain high.

What would happen in the scenario above, is other players would undercut the players doing the manipulation, but not by a significant enough margin to offset the increased prices. So, sure, you'd see someone undercutting their Kuta costs by 5 or even 15 gold. On an item they inflated from 2k to 5k. Yeah, that's a real victory there.

The problem is, for most traders, the prices people are listing something at becomes a guide to what you can charge for it. Someone who sufficiently skews the market doesn't ever need to satisfy demand. Eventually they'll want to dump their stock for maximum effect, but once they've forced the price up, they don't need to worry about other players undercutting them by a serious margin, in quantities sufficient to tank the value. Eventually the price would normalize back down, as the supply recovered, but that could take quite some time.

People undercut each other for 100 gold yet you seem to believe in an AH system people wouldn't undercut if it made them tens of millions?

You would pay tens of thousands of gold to list an item for 500%, whats to stop people from listing the same item for 499%? In that scenario those players would cost you millions of gold, because you would be forced to constantly cancel your trades or else spend 30 days maxed out not selling anything.

In the current system nothing stops you, you're at max competing against 499 other players.

In an AH system, you would be competing against every other player.

Really consider the difference, not a couple hundred but a couple million people could undercut you. Most items would be worth 0 gold in no time at all.

Do you honestly think casuals have enough items and or gold to tank prices? Could I manage it with my (approximately) 12 of each gold upgrade mat and 20 kutas?
What they contribute to the GAH will be equivalent to a fish pissing in the ocean. Then the Sharks will roll along and take all of the deals that are there, because the have the gold and enjoy playing with the economy.

That's not how buying and re-selling works though. What you're advocating is a good way to lose all your gold (in fact your exact strategy is how Gold-buyers used to go broke in WoW thinking they could spend some $ to make endless ingame gold).

You buy low and sell at Market (or above Market if Trade stalls are out of stock).

With an AH, there would never be that out of stock. Seriously look at TTC for common items, look at how many daily listings there are for stuff like Kuta and realize with an AH it would be 1000x that.

It wouldn't matter if the sellers were casual or not because literally any random level 10 with a Kuta could become your competition. And remember you only have 30 slots, so the more gold you spend trying to "corner" the market, the bigger your backlog becomes.

In fact a better argument against an AH would be gold would become too useless, because the megaservers are too populous and having everything sell "at cost" leaves little room for actual profit.

My point was actually that all of these ppl who would suddenly participate in selling through an AH most likely have less mats than you think.

Paralyse

I do not belong to any guilds and have no desire to. Most of the ones I have seen in the game have ridiculous requirements about mandatory attendance, something which is difficult for me since I sometimes only have two or three days a month where I can actually log on and play ESO due to work and other commitments.

As a result, I have a bank full of purple and gold mats, recipes, patterns, etc. and lots of really nice set pieces with Divines traits and so on, and absolutely nothing to do with them but let them sit there or sell them for a few gold to a merchant.

I'd like to look at this from a balanced point of view -- the effects of adding a global auction system.

- Guildless players gain access to sell crafting materials, gear, and consumables. The resulting income provides them with a means to purchase other things. For instance, let's say I have 20 Dreugh Waxes in the bank but need 20 Tempering Alloys because I'm a blacksmith. Without a global auction house, I can buy the 20 Alloys through a guild trader. However, this requires visiting a few or several or more guild traders all over Tamriel to find enough Alloys for sale; worse, I have no way of knowing if the price is reasonable, a bargain, or absurd. Spending 20,000 gold on mats that could have been obtained for 7,500 gold by fast-travelling two cities away is not good for anyone except guild traders. On the other hand, a global auction house system would allow me to find the cheapest available Alloys, with only visiting one area, and at the same time, place the Dreugh Waxes up for sale to recoup the gold used to purchase the Alloys.

- Players who are working on trait sets, research, achievements, and so on can find the items they need much more quickly and efficiently. The current system is so frustrating that many players who have gold won't spend it just because the process of locating and buying items is arduous.

- Competition in the market allows a sustainable price level to arise. I'll use WoW's auction house for an example. When the current expansion launched, purchasing a stack of 20 Flasks (an item which increases one of your character's stats for one hour) would have set you back nearly 200,000 Gold. Within six weeks, it was down to 50,000 gold as more Herbalists and Alchemists levelled up their crafting and gained the ability to craft Flasks for sale. The price has currently stabilized (months later) at around 300 to 500 gold per Flask, resulting in a stack price (20 units) of 6000 to 10000 gold. It has been stable at that level for quite some time, despite tens of thousands of crafters who have now gained the ability to make those Flasks since the launch of the expansion. Why? Because once they hit level 110 (the current maximum) the players in the game have also begun to USE those flasks in end-game content and group content -- as the players level up, further demand is created for Flasks, keeping the prices relatively stable. The prices of the crafting materials needed to make the Flasks is also stabilized due to the number of farmers selling the raw materials, allowing Flask makers to earn a predictable margin of profit on their transactions.

- As a seller, getting your inventory in front of more buyers is always a good thing. Guild traders are currently restricted in how many people actually see their inventory -- it is largely based on pure chance that someone stops by your stall and looks at the list! As a result, sales would improve drastically if more buyers had access to the market and the sellers' products. This provides demand to help prevent supply from causing a downward price spiral.

- With many materials being available easily and conveniently, the need to farm those materials goes down. This reduces the supply of incoming raw materials to the market, also helping to stabilize supply vs. demand.

- Falling prices are not always a bad thing -- they bring buyers into the market. If you crafted an item for 3,500 gold in materials costs, and were trying to resell it for 20,000 gold, and there was a buyer who would be willing to pay 10,000 gold for it -- the competition from other sellers would lower prices until they reached a point where buyers were interested. Your 3,500 gold investment is a loss until someone purchases it, and competition allows prices to reach a level where both the seller and buyer are satisfied with the transaction.

- Undercutting can and will be problematic with a global market. With no way to build value, the only distinguishing factor in a buyer's mind from one seller to the next is usually price. Sellers, therefore, are likely to constantly be undercut by the competition since price is the only driver of sales. This effect is only partially mitigated by what we call the TGTP factor: Too Good To Pass (up) -- a price point where the item is such a bargain to the buyer that it is almost irresistible. As more and more buyers purchase items at that price level, prices can naturally rise due to shrinking supplies.

- Guilds who have invested in Guild Traders in highly visible and desirable locations would be displaced by a global auction house system, the availability of which would quickly render guild traders obsolete.

- A global auction house market is vulnerable to cornering, mostly on scarcer items and materials, wherein a gold-farmer or super-wealthy market maker buys up the entire supply of an item and relists it at a higher price. Fortunately, such attempts are often sabotaged by undercutting, one of its only good side effects.

- Increased supply of materials means that individuals who rely on the sale of those materials to earn a living will find their ability to make gold severely crippled. While this may be beneficial to reducing supply, the resulting loss of income means less gold is available to make purchases, causing sellers to drop prices to attract more buyers; those sellers then have less gold in profits, and may not be available to put the money back into the market or to craft more items to sell.

Just a few thoughts based on my experiences in this and many other MMO's over the last 20+ years. Thank you for reading.

tl;dr global auction house benefits buyers and sellers for the most part, but there are a couple of disadvantages that could cause major economic issues that are difficult to control or predict.

SSlarg

grim_tactics wrote: »

I'd be mad that everything I list will just be undercut by everyone else and then stop selling.

100% This^ ^

victoriana-blue

Kurkikohtaus wrote: »

Agreed. A part of the game would be trashed, the guild-trader part of the game. Because what I believe to be the majority would move to the GAH the "second it was launched"**, even those that favour the current guild-trader system.

And that is the point. I believe that the majority does not want or favour the current-guild trader system, and even those that do would switch to the GAH in order to continue to make a profit, because that is where the buyers would be. Is it BETTER that way? Probably not, for some. But in my opinion it is the only foreseeable development if such a concurrent system were introduced, and I believe that refutes the argument heard on these forums over and over, that "the majority" like it the way it is.

FWIW, I would use the two systems in parallel. I like buying from/supporting people I know, so I would still check my guilds first, then only check the AH for specific things. I don't foresee massive price differences between the two, once the AH is established: everyone would have access to the AH data, so even non-public guild traders would adapt to remain competitive. I'd sell on both the traders and the AH, though it would depend on the markets what kinds of things I'd sell where. And I might start concentrating more on alchemy farming than general mat farming, depending on how far the prices crash.

It wouldn't be much different from what I do now: keep an eye on my guilds for things like unknown plans, motifs, and mats, and look at a couple other traders when a) I check TTC to find a specific item, like sturdy Beekeeper girdles or b) I wander past a trader and happen to feel like glancing through the listings.

(Full disclosure: I'm a recipe & motif completionist, in 3 social/1 dungeon/1 serious trade guild; I make enough on the trade guild to finance my recipe/motif purchases and the luxury furnisher items. I think there need to be changes to the trader system, like making it easier for people to begin selling and having a better gamepad interface, but an AH isn't the answer.)

/earnest

Bombashaman

"What would happen if there WERE a global AH?"

This would be like any other MMORPG with trading, boring. No thanks.

ArcVelarian

A certain set of people would play the market and drive inflation through the roof. At least with this system prices remain competitively reasonable.

Oompuh

Imagine how terrible the guild store UI is now... but with every item for sale in the game. Kill me now

Leogon

Some people would complain about it.

exeeter702

Ultimately i just feel bad for console players.. i mean has anyone actually taken a look at TTC posting for ps4 and x1.. *** is depressing.

victoriana-blue

Paralyse wrote: »

I do not belong to any guilds and have no desire to. Most of the ones I have seen in the game have ridiculous requirements about mandatory attendance, something which is difficult for me since I sometimes only have two or three days a month where I can actually log on and play ESO due to work and other commitments.

There are plenty of casual/trade guilds with 30-day inactivity policies (so they can prune out people who no longer play), including guilds who can work with your schedule. I'm in two. If you want to try a guild like that it's worth keeping an eye on the guilds subforum for your platform, if you aren't already.

- Competition in the market allows a sustainable price level to arise. [snip]

- As a seller, getting your inventory in front of more buyers is always a good thing. Guild traders are currently restricted in how many people actually see their inventory -- it is largely based on pure chance that someone stops by your stall and looks at the list! As a result, sales would improve drastically if more buyers had access to the market and the sellers' products. This provides demand to help prevent supply from causing a downward price spiral.

- With many materials being available easily and conveniently, the need to farm those materials goes down. This reduces the supply of incoming raw materials to the market, also helping to stabilize supply vs. demand.

Stable prices have to do with stable supply + stable demand + competition, not auction houses specifically. I agree with many of your other points, like that an AH will push prices down and that undercutting & cornering are concerns, but your initial premises imply that the guild trader economy is neither competitive nor stable.

We already have stable prices on many consumables and mats, such as psijic ambrosia (3-3.5k on NA-PC) and ancestor silk (my MM has had ~60g/piece since November, and benefits from location). They vary a bit with new dlc and balance patches, which create more demand (and less supply, because us farmers are out running Morrowind quests instead ;p) but even then the prices don't usually change terribly much. TTC exerts a mediating force on the PC market, but even without TTC it's easy to look at other listings/guilds yourself and price your items accordingly.

(Except purple improvement mats, there's been a long slow increase in those prices since January because of the increased writ/furnishing demand. *shakes fist*)

Would an auction house have more in-your-face competition than the guild traders? Absolutely. But the guild traders are in competition and the prices of common items reflect that.

Beardimus

There has been a real lack of Dead Horse GIF'S on this thread which is a disappointment..

Artis

I just wish they put AH in the middle of Imperial City's Sewers. I'd see how OP's and others' tone would change. I think, forums would be pretty fun to read for a while

Tandor

Absolut_Turkey wrote: »

Uh...the vast majority DO NOT WANT a global AH. How do I know? Because there have been COUNTLESS posts and polls about this topic since the game came out. The topic of the global AH has been discussed and debated to death. This topic is a dead horse. Stop beating it.

Most polls haven't shown a vast majority against a global auction house (or other alternative trading system to the present one), opinion has generally been pretty divided and even those players supporting the retention of the present system have often wanted significant improvements to it, especially given that defence of the present system is always based pretty heavily on reliance on addons which simply aren't an option on console. The number of people who like the present system as it currently operates on both PC and console is pretty small, hence there being "COUNTLESS posts and polls about this topic". The system has never been fully supported and so the complaints about it have never gone away.

Personally, while I think that an auction house system would be better than the present system, I wouldn't envisage it being global and I would in any event prefer the present guild trader system to be opened up to cater for those guilds that aren't successful in getting regular spots in half-decent locations as well as those who don't belong to trading guilds. That could easily be achieved by having a single NPC trader in the main trader locations with whom anyone could list a very small number of items at a high rate of commission which would be shared between the guilds trading in that location. That change, coupled with a decent search engine, would provide a vastly improved trading system open to all and with no more scope for market distortion than already exists.

The NPC trader in the starting cities could even offer quests that introduced the whole concept of trading kiosks so as to familiarise new players with the system so that as they wanted to increase the number of items they could sell they would be aware of the opportunities available to them. Trading guilds could do very well out of this change, with increased revenue and recruitment.

Darlgon

Beardimus wrote: »

There has been a real lack of Dead Horse GIF'S on this thread which is a disappointment..

Good point..

Kurkikohtaus

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

3. What you are doing is thinly veiled as something different. Your arguments clearly indicate you are attempting to do the same thing every one of those pro AH threads have done. You merely state having both in the game will prove something.

I think it would prove something, as stated above. And I am willing to accept that if in the described system both trading methods managed to co-exist indefinitely, then I would be wrong. And certainly if those who support guild-trading lead a successful boycott of the GAH, then I would of course be wrong as well.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Another example where you belittle those who do not support an AH as inexperienced and ill-informed.

There is not a single experienced and well-informed (from other MMOs) BUYER who is AGAINST a global AH ... think about that.

Yes, looking at it now, that statement was badly worded. Since then I have changed my tone.

Now I would present that argument this way:

I cannot imagine that experienced and well-informed buyers would be AGAINST a global AH, because the advantages to the buyer, both serious and casual, are too great to overlook.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

So in the end what you have presented in your OP is really just another AH thread except you call it a hypothesis. In the end you present the same baseless argument as everyone else yet somehow think it is more important.

Such is the nature of thought experiments. You propose something and try to understand what will happen and what it means. I don't think my "thought" is more important than anyone else's, except those who blindly claim that "the Majority" wants guild-traders, end of discussion.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

To prove my point that your thread and your replies are merely nothing more than every other AH thread I will present what you posted on page 2.

It is YOU, the SELLERS in the current system who are actually resisting change, because the prospect of adaptation is too daunting.

That quote serves another great example. Those in support of the guild traders have adapted. They might have resisted change in the beginning, but moved past that. It is probably the most illogical statement made in this entire thread.

I stand by my statement quoted in your quote above. Within the context of ESO, people who engage in guild-trading have adapted to nothing, because that is all that there every was. If the system changed or had to compete concurrently with an alternative system, THEN people would have to adapt, and I think that is what some who support guild-trading fear.

CaptainBeerDude

Artis wrote: »

I just wish they put AH in the middle of Imperial City's Sewers. I'd see how OP's and others' tone would change. I think, forums would be pretty fun to read for a while

In a DLC location surrounded by gankers. That's pretty evil. I would place it in the newest chapter zone.
Not sure which would draw more hate.

Lord_Eomer

Global auction house is very important in MMO,

ESO lacking this from lot of time and eventually this has to come one way or another. Going through every trader looking for item is simply wasting time! Its a poor design and failed system!

FloppyTouch

Why would a AH be amazing, I spent almost 2 hours looking for a sturdy heavy impregnable top in the current guild trader system.

If we had a AH that would have been tops 5mins

Nuff said

M0bi

@ZOS_GinaBruno , please lock this thread. The conversation here is not constructive...and annoying

CaptainBeerDude

Maybe you're not constructive.


Just saying...

Beardimus

Agree with Mobi, OP ain't listening to any responses and just cherry picking lines to reply to. It's a dead horse. Both topic and thread.

Rianai

i wonder, how many of those that are against a global auction house (or even a global search function) use TTC and therefore support exactly what they are against. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the majority of them, because the advantages are obviously. Preaching water, drinking wine ...