Absolut_Turkey wrote: »THIS!NewBlacksmurf wrote: »What would actually happen....
The market would crash, but only after the servers crash on and off for two weeks.
The realistic impacts are Guilds will break apart and the game would eventually fracture and die.
I know it seems like a global auction house is a good thing, BUT thats for games with segmented populations already.
Essentially it works if you cut the mega server per platform and per region into 1/16 ths but global.....NO GAME IS DOING THAT because its too much.
You all have to understand that the only reason there is gold now is due to this market design.
There is no money and the only game that tried this was Diablo 3 for PC. I don't' think I need to further explain the impacts.
Just understand that it wont work in favor of anyone as prices would go up....but eventually if every gets what they want for this.
1. Large portions of the population will farm to sale
2. The AH become overfilled with thousands of the same items
3. People then try to control the market buying things in large bulk, to resale higher....resulting in higher prices
4. Every now and then, groups come in to undercut, and those are bought up and listed high
5. People will keep asking for more BoE to sale
End result
-No one makes any money cause the market crashes due to exponential costs of listing tons of items and no one buying them due to lack of money and over-saturation.
And just so we're clear, the majority of players DO NOT WANT a centralized AH. We've been over this...COUNTLESS times.
Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Yet you use the same types empty assumptions and guesses you complain that they use
...
Here you accuse trader supporters of one thing then turn around and do exactly what you accuse them of.
That is just one case in point. You say their argument is empty when yours is just as empty.
Absolut_Turkey wrote: »Uh...the vast majority DO NOT WANT a global AH. How do I know? Because there have been COUNTLESS posts and polls about this topic since the game came out. The topic of the global AH has been discussed and debated to death. This topic is a dead horse. Stop beating it.
CromulentForumID wrote: »Can we stop with the arguments that a majority of players want this system or that system? We honestly have no clue one way or another.
CromulentForumID wrote: »"Everyone knows that" arguments are a fantastic indicator that the person is wrong. You don't have to try so hard to convince people of something that everyone really does know.
3. What you are doing is thinly veiled as something different. Your arguments clearly indicate you are attempting to do the same thing every one of those pro AH threads have done. You merely state having both in the game will prove something.What I am trying to say is that those who like the system and believe that they are in the majority are wrong.
So in the end what you have presented in your OP is really just another AH thread except you call it a hypothesis. In the end you present the same baseless argument as everyone else yet somehow think it is more important. You even admit you have no proof and it is merely your opinion, yet you continue as though it has greater meaning than anyone else.There is not a single experienced and well-informed (from other MMOs) BUYER who is AGAINST a global AH ... think about that.
That quote serves another great example. Those in support of the guild traders have adapted. They might have resisted change in the beginning, but moved past that. It is probably the most illogical statement made in this entire thread. Odd how that really works.It is YOU, the SELLERS in the current system who are actually resisting change, because the prospect of adaptation is too daunting.
Malibulove wrote: »CaptainBeerDude wrote: »Malibulove wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Malibulove wrote: »Malibulove wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Malibulove wrote: »Kurkikohtaus wrote: »Many threads have been born about the lack of a global Auction House, they die, and then invariably resurface. We all know the "for" and "against" arguments in an EITHER / OR context, but let's take a look at the situation through a hypothetical scenario:
What would happen if ZOS did indeed introduce a global, server-wide one-stop auction house, the type found in WoW and SWTOR? And what if it was introduced IN PARALLEL to the existing system, so that they coincided?
My prediction is this: the thousands upon thousands of people who do not have access to good trading guilds would begin to sell their wares en masse in the new auction house, people would be undercutting each other on an hourly basis and prices for commodities and items alike would plummet due to their sheer availability. In a very short time, no one would visit guild traders anymore, because you would be guaranteed a lower price and a much more user-friendly search mechanism (with add-on help, of course) than at a trader.
In short, regardless of the positives that the guild trader system brings, the silent majority that vastly outnumbers the vocal few who support the guild trader mechanism would finally make their voice heard by selling commodities and items CHEAPLY and TO ALL on the open market.
And then as soon as the price dropped enough....someone comes along with 20 million gold, buys all the tempering alloys and jacks up the price 500% and reslists them. They cant do that now without visiting each and every guild trader. Rinse and repeat for every high demand item.
Lol people always say this, but I think you forget that an individual only has 30 listings.
If the floodgates were opened it wouldn't matter if you had infinite money it would be your 30 listings vs Millions. Even if you could buy up every single item and had inventory space for it somehow, the fact you couldn't sell but 0.0001% of it at a time would mean the market would continue to bottom out.
The only reason re-selling works now, is because the good sales spots are hard capped at 15,000, and most the playerbase has no selling power.
Depends how you're packaging stuff, and what you're selling. I mean, I usually sell Kutas in packages of 5, and most gold upgrade mats in packages of 8. Saves on slots.
That won't stop demand though, if 1000 players need Kuta, it's irrelevant how you package it you can't meet that demand no matter how much you buy and resell.
My point is power users impact the market less in an AH system, not more.
If 1000 players need Kuta the auction house is the perfect system to inflate prices. Buy the low priced ones and either relist them at a higher price or sit on them. Two or three people can watch the auction house for a couple of days and really force the price up simply by purchasing the lower priced Kuta. Once the price increases enough for a decent profit come in just under the artificial price you just created and sell like crazy. It isn't hard to do at all with only a few people willing to work together when everything is listed in one place. Power players will dominate an auction house or at least select items in the auction house. Scattering the product across many independent vendors helps slow the power players down but even with that there have been a few minor successes at manipulating prices on mid range items. One was when some players on the PTS realized there would be an increased demand for a particular item after an upgrade and went on a buying spree before the launch. Was a minor inconvenience for a few days with traders would have been a much greater problem had there been one central location.
90 Slots won't inflate anything though.
2 or 3 players can't impact anything because a couple dozen undercuts will pop up for every price guage they try to run.
A handful of players simply don't have enough sale slots to meet the demand of all materials and items, the market will bypass them with ease.
I think you may have missed a critical portion of how supply and demand work.
You see, supply is what drives the price down. So, if there's a lot of something available, then it will be cheaper than if it's rare or relatively rare.
Demand drives the price up. So if people want or need something, that increases its value.
So, if you can artificially deplete the supply, while demand remains the same, the price will go up. The market won't, "bypass," this, because the supply is still diminished, and as a result the price will remain high.
What would happen in the scenario above, is other players would undercut the players doing the manipulation, but not by a significant enough margin to offset the increased prices. So, sure, you'd see someone undercutting their Kuta costs by 5 or even 15 gold. On an item they inflated from 2k to 5k. Yeah, that's a real victory there.
The problem is, for most traders, the prices people are listing something at becomes a guide to what you can charge for it. Someone who sufficiently skews the market doesn't ever need to satisfy demand. Eventually they'll want to dump their stock for maximum effect, but once they've forced the price up, they don't need to worry about other players undercutting them by a serious margin, in quantities sufficient to tank the value. Eventually the price would normalize back down, as the supply recovered, but that could take quite some time.
People undercut each other for 100 gold yet you seem to believe in an AH system people wouldn't undercut if it made them tens of millions?
You would pay tens of thousands of gold to list an item for 500%, whats to stop people from listing the same item for 499%? In that scenario those players would cost you millions of gold, because you would be forced to constantly cancel your trades or else spend 30 days maxed out not selling anything.
In the current system nothing stops you, you're at max competing against 499 other players.
In an AH system, you would be competing against every other player.
Really consider the difference, not a couple hundred but a couple million people could undercut you. Most items would be worth 0 gold in no time at all.
Do you honestly think casuals have enough items and or gold to tank prices? Could I manage it with my (approximately) 12 of each gold upgrade mat and 20 kutas?
What they contribute to the GAH will be equivalent to a fish pissing in the ocean. Then the Sharks will roll along and take all of the deals that are there, because the have the gold and enjoy playing with the economy.
That's not how buying and re-selling works though. What you're advocating is a good way to lose all your gold (in fact your exact strategy is how Gold-buyers used to go broke in WoW thinking they could spend some $ to make endless ingame gold).
You buy low and sell at Market (or above Market if Trade stalls are out of stock).
With an AH, there would never be that out of stock. Seriously look at TTC for common items, look at how many daily listings there are for stuff like Kuta and realize with an AH it would be 1000x that.
It wouldn't matter if the sellers were casual or not because literally any random level 10 with a Kuta could become your competition. And remember you only have 30 slots, so the more gold you spend trying to "corner" the market, the bigger your backlog becomes.
In fact a better argument against an AH would be gold would become too useless, because the megaservers are too populous and having everything sell "at cost" leaves little room for actual profit.
grim_tactics wrote: »I'd be mad that everything I list will just be undercut by everyone else and then stop selling.
Kurkikohtaus wrote: »Agreed. A part of the game would be trashed, the guild-trader part of the game. Because what I believe to be the majority would move to the GAH the "second it was launched"**, even those that favour the current guild-trader system.
And that is the point. I believe that the majority does not want or favour the current-guild trader system, and even those that do would switch to the GAH in order to continue to make a profit, because that is where the buyers would be. Is it BETTER that way? Probably not, for some. But in my opinion it is the only foreseeable development if such a concurrent system were introduced, and I believe that refutes the argument heard on these forums over and over, that "the majority" like it the way it is.
I do not belong to any guilds and have no desire to. Most of the ones I have seen in the game have ridiculous requirements about mandatory attendance, something which is difficult for me since I sometimes only have two or three days a month where I can actually log on and play ESO due to work and other commitments.
- Competition in the market allows a sustainable price level to arise. [snip]
- As a seller, getting your inventory in front of more buyers is always a good thing. Guild traders are currently restricted in how many people actually see their inventory -- it is largely based on pure chance that someone stops by your stall and looks at the list! As a result, sales would improve drastically if more buyers had access to the market and the sellers' products. This provides demand to help prevent supply from causing a downward price spiral.
- With many materials being available easily and conveniently, the need to farm those materials goes down. This reduces the supply of incoming raw materials to the market, also helping to stabilize supply vs. demand.
Absolut_Turkey wrote: »Uh...the vast majority DO NOT WANT a global AH. How do I know? Because there have been COUNTLESS posts and polls about this topic since the game came out. The topic of the global AH has been discussed and debated to death. This topic is a dead horse. Stop beating it.
There has been a real lack of Dead Horse GIF'S on this thread which is a disappointment..
Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »3. What you are doing is thinly veiled as something different. Your arguments clearly indicate you are attempting to do the same thing every one of those pro AH threads have done. You merely state having both in the game will prove something.
Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Another example where you belittle those who do not support an AH as inexperienced and ill-informed.There is not a single experienced and well-informed (from other MMOs) BUYER who is AGAINST a global AH ... think about that.
Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »So in the end what you have presented in your OP is really just another AH thread except you call it a hypothesis. In the end you present the same baseless argument as everyone else yet somehow think it is more important.
Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »To prove my point that your thread and your replies are merely nothing more than every other AH thread I will present what you posted on page 2.That quote serves another great example. Those in support of the guild traders have adapted. They might have resisted change in the beginning, but moved past that. It is probably the most illogical statement made in this entire thread.It is YOU, the SELLERS in the current system who are actually resisting change, because the prospect of adaptation is too daunting.
I just wish they put AH in the middle of Imperial City's Sewers. I'd see how OP's and others' tone would change. I think, forums would be pretty fun to read for a while