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Counter to Soul Assault
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Metemsycosis✭✭✭✭Complains about ultimates are really annoying! There's not a one I like getting hit by, I'm serious.
How much magicka does it cost to cast hardened ward, annulment, and healing ward? 9k - 12k magicka? to mitigate the viper+selene+
Incap, which costs 70 ulti or dawnbreaker, which costs 125, iirc.
100 is fine. the character channeling soul strike is doing nothing else for 3-4 seconds, never mind that for soul strike to be effective it requires quite a bit of set up, even on a magicka sorcerer. there's no ultimate in the game that leaves its caster so vulnerable. can you think of even one? (werewolf, maybe?)
Heavy armor, a physical shield, crit resistance, thick-skinned cp, shadow ward cp, magicka shield stacking, stacking hots, breath of life SPAM, 1 elusive mist, 1 maim, 1 invisibility pot, 1 cloak after a couple of seconds, try blocking even with a 2her, tri-pot + vigor/rally, los, shuffling out-of-range.
I find a combo of having vigor up (always), then blocking, then rally-burst healing with a back up potion does the trick and puts me back to full health. Usually don't even pop the potion, because I usually don't have to. The ones who get me are the ones I don't know have that skill equipped and surprise me back to camp.....
Terethea Magdalena, Breton Nightblade
A Dark-Adapted Eye, Imperial Necromancer
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Hempyre✭✭✭✭Considering you have to go through the main questline to even get it, I would say it's fine the way it is. It should be powerful.
It's a channel, which means it snares the caster, so same deal for the caster as the blocker. No advantage there.
Some things need to go through block and dodge. Both of those can be ridiculously OP.
I use it on my magplar only (as this is the only toon I've bothered doing the main questline on) and the tool tip is about 75k for me. Ya it sounds like a lot, however lots of peeps live through it no problem. Depends on your mitigation. Most of the time I have to hit JB to finish off the players it actually does burn down and I'm open to beats the whole time it's channeling -which happens a lot-. No block, no dodge, no heals.
Everything has a counter, calling nerf because this particular thing is yours isn't necessary.
Work your build if it's that big a problem. Maybe try using Barrier. Even Soul Assault has a counter. You need to be flexible.
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SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭FloppyTouch wrote: »Lol at all these "don't play glass Canon builds" and run so and so enchantments. I'm play a 5/2 medium heavy build on a stam sorc and with a defending bow soul assualt can one hit me while
I'm blocking with 35k stam and this so buffed to 25k resists, in cp. And no ones gonna make an entire build to deal with one ulti and then be useless in every other situation. Mag ultis are way too powerful. DB and Leap both dodgeable and blockable. Soul assault no and with a way larger tool tip. Doesnt make sense.
Stam can use the ult too
Ahh yeah sure you can, as a fly swatter.
? It is ultimate. It scales with your highest res/damage. In noCP it will have same tooltip damage on stam build as on magicka build. In CP it depends on CP, usually 10% less than any mag build.
With dawnbreaker being dodgeable again, this is THE ultimate to kill medium armor builds. Thankfully stam people like you dont like mag based ults
On my stamwarden I just apply poison injection, prepare sub assault and start channeling soul assault and average medium nonNB will just melt from 80% hp to 0. Even if they block it. And that is if I am alone. Be in group, simple start of channel means the target will die.
(Tho with dive, I dont use it much, dive + soul assault is just too stupid combo and I feel dirty; better get something like ballista for pressure to heavy armor and shield users)
Edited by SodanTok on June 23, 2017 10:05AM2 -
Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
@out51d3rWaffennacht wrote: »I don't remember what exactly what it was anymore...
Man, 45k magicka and 6.2k spell damage, while not even having a 5 star equipment bonus? Crazy.
That's a very specific setup and circumstance, though. It's the exception, not the rule.
Probably looking at dualwield w/Surge + Alchemist proc. SD isn't sitting at 6k all the time, by any means.Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS0 -
sly007✭✭✭✭Metemsycosis wrote: »Complains about ultimates are really annoying! There's not a one I like getting hit by, I'm serious.
How much magicka does it cost to cast hardened ward, annulment, and healing ward? 9k - 12k magicka? to mitigate the viper+selene+
Incap, which costs 70 ulti or dawnbreaker, which costs 125, iirc.
100 is fine. the character channeling soul strike is doing nothing else for 3-4 seconds, never mind that for soul strike to be effective it requires quite a bit of set up, even on a magicka sorcerer. there's no ultimate in the game that leaves its caster so vulnerable. can you think of even one? (werewolf, maybe?)
Heavy armor, a physical shield, crit resistance, thick-skinned cp, shadow ward cp, magicka shield stacking, stacking hots, breath of life SPAM, 1 elusive mist, 1 maim, 1 invisibility pot, 1 cloak after a couple of seconds, try blocking even with a 2her, tri-pot + vigor/rally, los, shuffling out-of-range.
I find a combo of having vigor up (always), then blocking, then rally-burst healing with a back up potion does the trick and puts me back to full health. Usually don't even pop the potion, because I usually don't have to. The ones who get me are the ones I don't know have that skill equipped and surprise me back to camp.....
Soul assault used to be 3ticks, so blocking it was a fine counter. Now it's apparently 7 or 8 ticks. The issue is not that souls assault is OP, the issue here is that the counter available to stamina cost way too much. Even if a magicka build were to cast 3 annulments, they can still regen magicka and also get magicka back for each tick of soul assault, making annulment a cost effective counter to Soul assault.
Stamina builds cannot use damage shields to counter soul assault, nor can roll dodge be used, which is fine. Soul assault is supposed to be blocked by stamina builds. But when blocking, stamina regeneration stops. Although the true cost of breaking soul assault is somewhere around the 17k mark, the stamina regeneration you would have gained is also gone. Soul assault hurts stamina builds way more than magicka builds.
I play both stamina and magicka. Proc sets hurt my stamina builds way for than my magicka builds. Being able to prevent the damage from the proc is more valuable than trying to heal back the 10k health I lost from 1 attacks. #nerfprocs5 -
Kas✭✭✭✭✭sry for not reading the whole thread:
my preferred counter (in 1v1 and even 1v2/3) is just enough defensive measures to stay alive + prepare a burst+stun for the exact moment SA ends. getting lasered while seriously outnumbered, usually means i rez at some keep and shrug it off or go play some more BGs because cyrodiil does not really get me anymore@bbu - AD/EU
Kasiia - Templar (AR46)
Kasiir Aberion - Sorc (AR38)
Dr Kastafari - Warden (~AR31)
+ many others1 -
Valencer✭✭✭✭✭
✭Considering you have to go through the main questline to even get it, I would say it's fine the way it is. It should be powerful.
It's a channel, which means it snares the caster, so same deal for the caster as the blocker. No advantage there.
Some things need to go through block and dodge. Both of those can be ridiculously OP.
I use it on my magplar only (as this is the only toon I've bothered doing the main questline on) and the tool tip is about 75k for me. Ya it sounds like a lot, however lots of peeps live through it no problem. Depends on your mitigation. Most of the time I have to hit JB to finish off the players it actually does burn down and I'm open to beats the whole time it's channeling -which happens a lot-. No block, no dodge, no heals.
Everything has a counter, calling nerf because this particular thing is yours isn't necessary.
Work your build if it's that big a problem. Maybe try using Barrier. Even Soul Assault has a counter. You need to be flexible.
I don't know why Im even bothering anymore.
- Using "have to go through the main questline to even get it" to justify the power of the ulti is ridiculous
- Suggesting that Barrier might be useful as a counter is even more ridiculous...
- Youre assuming that people are living through it with "no problem". You cant see their entire stamina bar getting drained.
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out51d3r✭✭✭✭Mag ultis are way too powerful.
There aren't actually mag ults and stam ults. Every ult uses your higher damage stat, no matter what damage type it does. Anybody can use soul assault, if they want to. Heck, I could throw Destro ult on the backbar of my Stamsorc and do just as much damage with it as a magsorc.
About the only difference is the CP traits/sets that buff certain damage types.
Edited by out51d3r on June 23, 2017 2:54PM0 -
Emmagoldman✭✭✭✭✭
✭I only have luck with it with super low health toons and usually scrubs in the open. Los is the best negate, so the ult isnt the strongest. 5 sec ult or dawnbreaker.....its no contest0 -
out51d3r✭✭✭✭Emmagoldman wrote: »Los is the best negate, so the ult isnt the strongest.
To be fair, it also inflicts a 70% snare, making LOS somewhat more difficult.1 -
Metemsycosis✭✭✭✭I just checked and can get my normally 60k tooltip to 88k with a gear and cp-switch, but the build would only function to do that one thing. Build ultimate and then hopefully fire it at the right target.Metemsycosis wrote: »Complains about ultimates are really annoying! There's not a one I like getting hit by, I'm serious.
How much magicka does it cost to cast hardened ward, annulment, and healing ward? 9k - 12k magicka? to mitigate the viper+selene+
Incap, which costs 70 ulti or dawnbreaker, which costs 125, iirc.
100 is fine. the character channeling soul strike is doing nothing else for 3-4 seconds, never mind that for soul strike to be effective it requires quite a bit of set up, even on a magicka sorcerer. there's no ultimate in the game that leaves its caster so vulnerable. can you think of even one? (werewolf, maybe?)
Heavy armor, a physical shield, crit resistance, thick-skinned cp, shadow ward cp, magicka shield stacking, stacking hots, breath of life SPAM, 1 elusive mist, 1 maim, 1 invisibility pot, 1 cloak after a couple of seconds, try blocking even with a 2her, tri-pot + vigor/rally, los, shuffling out-of-range.
I find a combo of having vigor up (always), then blocking, then rally-burst healing with a back up potion does the trick and puts me back to full health. Usually don't even pop the potion, because I usually don't have to. The ones who get me are the ones I don't know have that skill equipped and surprise me back to camp.....
Soul assault used to be 3ticks, so blocking it was a fine counter. Now it's apparently 7 or 8 ticks. The issue is not that souls assault is OP, the issue here is that the counter available to stamina cost way too much. Even if a magicka build were to cast 3 annulments, they can still regen magicka and also get magicka back for each tick of soul assault, making annulment a cost effective counter to Soul assault.
Stamina builds cannot use damage shields to counter soul assault, nor can roll dodge be used, which is fine. Soul assault is supposed to be blocked by stamina builds. But when blocking, stamina regeneration stops. Although the true cost of breaking soul assault is somewhere around the 17k mark, the stamina regeneration you would have gained is also gone. Soul assault hurts stamina builds way more than magicka builds.
I play both stamina and magicka. Proc sets hurt my stamina builds way for than my magicka builds. Being able to prevent the damage from the proc is more valuable than trying to heal back the 10k health I lost from 1 attacks. #nerfprocs
I play both too. I won't argue against soul assault hurting stamina toons worse than magicka ones. On my mageblade that's why I use it, mostly. My opponent has 2700 stamina Regen 20K health and light attacks for 7-12k, but gets upset about a lack of counter play against an ultimate? That's amusing to me.
Against magic specs I usually need a stun to coincide with massive damage to knock em out. (Meteor soul tether dawn breaker leap incap etc) -- the moral of the story is if anyone has a right to complain about stamina cost of defense it's the magicka spec. Since without stamina they'll go 4.5 seconds without action. But I won't bother with that direction much.
As I see it soul strike is not only a great counter to the speedy autododging (immune to snare) los-while-healing stamina toons, it's one of the only ones in the game. It punishes the unseasoned, and it punishes the stamina based glass cannons. But that's all.Edited by Metemsycosis on June 23, 2017 6:48PMTerethea Magdalena, Breton Nightblade
A Dark-Adapted Eye, Imperial Necromancer
sanguinare vampiris
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Asardes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭On magicka builds harness magicka. Spam that a few times, eat all damage and refund much of the cost.Beta tester since February 2014, played ESO-TU October 2015 - August 2022, currently on an extended break
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sly007✭✭✭✭Metemsycosis wrote: »
As I see it soul strike is not only a great counter to the speedy autododging (immune to snare) los-while-healing stamina toons, it's one of the only ones in the game. It punishes the unseasoned, and it punishes the stamina based glass cannons. But that's all.
The stamina cost to counter soul assault has nothing to do with being a glass cannon. U could be in 7/7 heavy and it will cost the same amount of stamina to block it. Don't pretend that somehow soul assault costing so much stamina for counter play is okay. Also, simply because proc are being used doesn't mean we can't bring up the poor counter play for soul assault against stamina builds.4 -
Metemsycosis✭✭✭✭That's not true. Heavy armor isn't the only way one avoids glass cannon status. Shadow ward reduces cost of block. As does defensive posture and sword and board passives. There's also thick-skinned. Etc.
Most of these are not in the toolkit of your typical glass cannonEdited by Metemsycosis on June 23, 2017 7:45PMTerethea Magdalena, Breton Nightblade
A Dark-Adapted Eye, Imperial Necromancer
sanguinare vampiris
https://m.twitch.tv/amcrenshaw/profile1 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Metemsycosis wrote: »That's not true. Heavy armor isn't the only way one avoids glass cannon status. Shadow ward reduces cost of block. As does defensive posture and sword and board passives. There's also thick-skinned. Etc.
Most of these are not in the toolkit of your typical glass cannon
Yet blocking even in s&b with reduced cost will still cost a lot.
You get 38% from s&b passives, say 12% from Cp, so 50% reduction.
So instead of 17k its gonna cost you 8.5k
Then your going to lose 2 regen ticks, anywhere from 2-3kper 2s so you'll lose 4-6k stamina.
Then you've got to account for the heals, because you still need to heal through it because the dmg is so high. 1 vigor? 3.5k~ or a vigor + rally if your medium.
This one cheap ultimate that will literally bring you to a standstill and let others drain your stam even more and get free hits will cost a heavy S&b user an insane amount still.
So around 16k-18k from 1 cheap ultimate. What other ultimate in the game drains so much sheer resources? Where the stamina ult that drains 16-18k magicka when vs a ice staff user holding block?
And this is with a s&b user. Now imagine how much this effects medium, they take more dmg, lose more regen and cost more with blocking.
This became a problem because of a combination of numerous changes by zos, that wasn't needed.
15% dmg increase and unbashable and undodgable, more heals, only way to survive is to hold block, more dmg = more heals = more stamina.
Went from 3-4 ticks to 6-8 ticks then they changed blocking to cost every 0.25s.
Increased cost of stamina heals, vigor + rally.
Stopped regen while blocking.
At the very least they should lower the ticks, they should remove the snare even though blocking brings you to a standstill anyway. Maybe reduce the dmg back by 15%?PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...3 -
Metemsycosis✭✭✭✭But somehow players survive it. IDK how though.
I'd agree with fewer ticks and idc about the damage tbh... I used it before and nothing seems to have changed (in my limited experience mind you) .if they lower the damage it's still an excellent ultimate against against lower health targets
Terethea Magdalena, Breton Nightblade
A Dark-Adapted Eye, Imperial Necromancer
sanguinare vampiris
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gepe87✭✭✭✭✭
✭Aurora Javelin to user can counter?Gepe, Dunmer MagSorc Pact Grand Overlord | Gaepe, Bosmer MagSorc Dominion General
If you see edits on my replies: typos. English isn't my main language0 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The common thread in the forum seems to be undodgeable == tears..Minalan owes me a beer.
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timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭How I deal with all stambuilds/proctards
Edited by timidobserver on July 5, 2017 3:35PMV16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
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Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »
Aye, that they would.. fwiw, I don't like soul-assault either.. its another one of those tools which are too zerg-friendly.. ie. there is a risk using it(as there should be) - but not when your standing behind a bunch of allies outnumbering your target.
Minalan owes me a beer.
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GreenSoup2HoT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭timidobserver wrote: »How I deal with all stambuilds/proctards
omg i wish my stamblade had a bankai with hollow mask. not to mention that like 360 degree parry of a billion projectiles.PS4 NA DC0 -
Rickter✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The Way of the Yolo: Kill Them Before They Kill You.RickterESO
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Mazbt✭✭✭✭keep up your rally buff, pop it when the beam hits u after a couple of seconds it's a real decent heal. Try to burst them down might work if you have high enough damage. If you are a mage you should have a shield on your bar. buffs like major protection, major defensive buff, minor protection, keep a hot going all real nice. In a 1 v 1 i don't have problems with it and it's rarely if ever a killing blow on me if fighting outnumbered.Mazari the Resurrected (AD)- PVP stamplar main
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sly007✭✭✭✭keep up your rally buff, pop it when the beam hits u after a couple of seconds it's a real decent heal. Try to burst them down might work if you have high enough damage. If you are a mage you should have a shield on your bar. buffs like major protection, major defensive buff, minor protection, keep a hot going all real nice. In a 1 v 1 i don't have problems with it and it's rarely if ever a killing blow on me if fighting outnumbered.
Like others and i have said, the damage is not the issue. The problem is the amount of stamina it takes to block and heal through it.Edited by sly007 on July 6, 2017 12:15PM0 -
Hankrabbit✭✭✭With NB you can cloak it after 2 seconds. Just Vigor and block until u can cloak. Easy0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Hankrabbit wrote: »With NB you can cloak it after 2 seconds. Just Vigor and block until u can cloak. Easy
In which skill line can I find cloak on my stam sorc?2 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭IChilly-McFreeze wrote: »Hankrabbit wrote: »With NB you can cloak it after 2 seconds. Just Vigor and block until u can cloak. Easy
In which skill line can I find cloak on my stam sorc?
It's that other morph of mines I think lmao0
This discussion has been closed.