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Counter to Soul Assault
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leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Depends if a sorc hits you with a curse + endless fury and manages to get your mid dodge roll he'll melt you.
Well, that's a combination of abilities used with good timing. That should kill me. Against some enemies, Soul Assault basically just lets you one button derp into 110k tooltip damage.
For something so potent, at least one of the basic defenses should be a reasonable counter.
They increased the damage of soul assault when they made it so you can't innterupt it or dodge it.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...2 -
out51d3r✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »They increased the damage of soul assault when they made it so you can't innterupt it or dodge it.
Yep, I remember.0 -
sly007✭✭✭✭The stamina cost is just too much, especially with the changed to sustain. At this point, I rather get hit by 2 meteors than 1 soul assault. I can block meteor onces then roll dodge out of the dot, then repeat on the second meteor. With Soul assault, it's just too much of a stamina drain. No stamina recovery while block, and insane stamina cost when blocking soul assault.2 -
Twohothardware✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭They need to majorly increase the Ult cost of Soul Assault. It deals too high of damage for such a low cost. Either that or make it bashable again because something that reduces your movement speed by like 75% shouldn't make the caster completely immune to interrupt.Edited by Twohothardware on June 22, 2017 11:52PM3 -
MalakithAlamahdi✭✭✭✭✭Can I get crescent sweep back on my magplar? I'll gladly trade soul assault for it.0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Would a stam drain nerf to SA be acceptable IF we also reduced the invincibility frames of dodge so you're no more dodging while out of the animation?0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Would a stam drain nerf to SA be acceptable IF we also reduced the invincibility frames of dodge so you're no more dodging while out of the animation?
Maybe when most skills don't go through dodge or dodge having a cost increase.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...3 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »
Ayeee... "Most" is a bit of a stretch, don't you think? I hear that being thrown around a lot here, but really? The skills that matter are all dodgable, with the exceptions being intended as counters.0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »
Ayeee... "Most" is a bit of a stretch, don't you think? I hear that being thrown around a lot here, but really? The skills that matter are all dodgable, with the exceptions being intended as counters.
I'd list all the skill that go through roll but i'd be here all day.
But to name a few
All magicka aoe's
All dots if they hit
Sweeps/ jabs
Beam
Most ults
Backlash
Curse
fury (if it hits)
Proc whip
fossilize
Fear
vamp drain
procs like skoria
Deep fissure/ sub assault
Etc...
PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...3 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yup. Pretty much all dps skills and many burst skills are dodgable.
AoEs don't count. Seriously, when's the last time you got killed by Pulsar?
You just gotta pay close attention to certain montages to see how strong dodge is. This is why we have been given counters, it was a very conscious design decision. If you wanna nerf the counters, you have got to nerf the countered subject.0 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yup. Pretty much all dps skills and many burst skills are dodgable.
AoEs don't count. Seriously, when's the last time you got killed by Pulsar?
You just gotta pay close attention to certain montages to see how strong dodge is. This is why we have been given counters, it was a very conscious design decision. If you wanna nerf the counters, you have got to nerf the countered subject.
Only ground AoEs should be dodgeable. Make it so, and remove the cost increase; then a reduction in invincibility frames will be justifiable.0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yup. Pretty much all dps skills and many burst skills are dodgable.
AoEs don't count. Seriously, when's the last time you got killed by Pulsar?
You just gotta pay close attention to certain montages to see how strong dodge is. This is why we have been given counters, it was a very conscious design decision. If you wanna nerf the counters, you have got to nerf the countered subject.
Inhale/ talons/ sweeps/ etc...
Every class has enough skills that go through roll.
A cheap ult that can deal 100k~ tooltip and at the very least cause people to hold block for 4s while spamming heals and take 17k stamina just from blocking never the heal spam... very balanced.
Can we have dawnbreaker go through shields/ block?PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...6 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »Yup. Pretty much all dps skills and many burst skills are dodgable.
AoEs don't count. Seriously, when's the last time you got killed by Pulsar?
You just gotta pay close attention to certain montages to see how strong dodge is. This is why we have been given counters, it was a very conscious design decision. If you wanna nerf the counters, you have got to nerf the countered subject.
Only ground AoEs should be dodgeable. Make it so, and remove the cost increase; then a reduction in invincibility frames will be justifiable.
I can almost agree with that. The only problem I have is the fear of infinite rollblades, we had that in 1.6.
So, how about this:
Same as above, but either
1. Roll penalty kicks in later, but is also harsher
2. Roll penalty kicks in sooner, but is softer
The first one would probably be great against predictable bursts and in 1v1. The second would be good to deal with sudden bursts from multiple opponents, but would do you no good if trying to dodge everything.0 -
cazlonb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭I am still surprised this ultimate is not more popular. Everytime you play medium and some capable sorc starts casting it (capable = it is not his opener, his curse will hit you during the channel, execute is casted and at least one shield is refreshed before starting) it is over. Not over that you die, but over that if you keep fighting for 10sec longer they will use it again and then you will die.
Well, you kinda said it yourself. The combo curse, frag, soul assault works great for a Sorc, but something similar is not quite as easy for the other classes. Soul Assault on its own doesn't kill anyone.1 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »I am still surprised this ultimate is not more popular. Everytime you play medium and some capable sorc starts casting it (capable = it is not his opener, his curse will hit you during the channel, execute is casted and at least one shield is refreshed before starting) it is over. Not over that you die, but over that if you keep fighting for 10sec longer they will use it again and then you will die.
Well, you kinda said it yourself. The combo curse, frag, soul assault works great for a Sorc, but something similar is not quite as easy for the other classes. Soul Assault on its own doesn't kill anyone.
What about... Fletcher, Shalk, SA? That could be as devastating maybe. Run Fire staff, Bird O Prey +24% on that bad boy
It does go off of spell damage more than magicka (or top damage than top resource) so... War Maiden? + Alchemist, should get... 1380+400+660ish+129+129 2692 + 20% (+540ish) + 8% = 3600ish
Probably sit around 35-40k magicka (depending on abilities and CP or no)
Should hit like a Mac truck in a duel too0 -
IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't know. It feels like SA is easily countered by competent medium armor users with vigor. Someone tanked the entire duration with only vigor while proceeding to 1vX. And usually, when the caster take a huge hit, they cancel SA normally. So... yeah.Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel0 -
fred4✭✭✭✭✭
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Thank you. I truly didn't believe it. Does your build use Maelstrom axes? Something like this:Waffennacht wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Will you stop with the BS tooltips already or provide a link to your builds?
BS tooltips? Have you actually used it?
@Waffennacht Do the msa 1hs still buff it?
I have no clue
sorry
@fred4
No BS here, self buffed, no Cyrodiil buffs iirc
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=17712
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out51d3r✭✭✭✭Would a stam drain nerf to SA be acceptable IF we also reduced the invincibility frames of dodge so you're no more dodging while out of the animation?
Why are you talking about nerfing dodge in a thread about an undodgeable attack? People aren't asking to make this attack dodgeable. People are asking to make it blockable, which was the original intent.Edited by out51d3r on June 23, 2017 4:45AM1 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@fred4
Not at all, here is the stats for that build:
I don't remember what exactly what it was anymore...
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out51d3r✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »I don't remember what exactly what it was anymore...
Man, 45k magicka and 6.2k spell damage, while not even having a 5 star equipment bonus? Crazy.Edited by out51d3r on June 23, 2017 5:07AM0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Would a stam drain nerf to SA be acceptable IF we also reduced the invincibility frames of dodge so you're no more dodging while out of the animation?
Why are you talking about nerfing dodge in a thread about an undodgeable attack? People aren't asking to make this attack dodgeable. People are asking to make it blockable, which was the original intent.
Because, as I mentioned later, SA is intended to be a dodge counter. It must keep that role, so you gotta nerf dodge along with SA.0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
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Well, it is blockable. If you can block it without suffering resource loss, there's no point. Seeing as it is a counter and useless against anything else, you should be at a disadvantage when it's used against you.
So, a serious resource loss. I'm under the impression people here want it to be blockable without any negatives, and that defeats the purpose. So my most reasonable conclusion is to actually get to the root, make the hard counter redundant by correcting dodge. IMO, much better than a bandaid.1 -
Rahotu✭✭✭personally i'm offended to get hit with SA in low level pvp,as I don't even HAVE soul at that point 0
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Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lol at all these "don't play glass Canon builds" and run so and so enchantments. I'm play a 5/2 medium heavy build on a stam sorc and with a defending bow soul assualt can one hit me while
I'm blocking with 35k stam and this so buffed to 25k resists, in cp. And no ones gonna make an entire build to deal with one ulti and then be useless in every other situation. Mag ultis are way too powerful. DB and Leap both dodgeable and blockable. Soul assault no and with a way larger tool tip. Doesnt make sense.1 -
FloppyTouch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Lol at all these "don't play glass Canon builds" and run so and so enchantments. I'm play a 5/2 medium heavy build on a stam sorc and with a defending bow soul assualt can one hit me while
I'm blocking with 35k stam and this so buffed to 25k resists, in cp. And no ones gonna make an entire build to deal with one ulti and then be useless in every other situation. Mag ultis are way too powerful. DB and Leap both dodgeable and blockable. Soul assault no and with a way larger tool tip. Doesnt make sense.
Stam can use the ult too0 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FloppyTouch wrote: »Lol at all these "don't play glass Canon builds" and run so and so enchantments. I'm play a 5/2 medium heavy build on a stam sorc and with a defending bow soul assualt can one hit me while
I'm blocking with 35k stam and this so buffed to 25k resists, in cp. And no ones gonna make an entire build to deal with one ulti and then be useless in every other situation. Mag ultis are way too powerful. DB and Leap both dodgeable and blockable. Soul assault no and with a way larger tool tip. Doesnt make sense.
Stam can use the ult too
Ahh yeah sure you can, as a fly swatter.1
This discussion has been closed.