Counter to Soul Assault

Master_Kas

Never had a issue with this ultimate except when outnumbered but I rather die to SA than some cliffrace spammer. But I main a magblade. Destro resto setup I mash healing ward, bombersetup I spam harness.

Medium armor non-nbs prob have issue with it if they get hit by a glasscannon's SA. So won't comment on that.

Waffennacht

Master_Kas wrote: »

Never had a issue with this ultimate except when outnumbered but I rather die to SA than some cliffrace spammer. But I main a magblade. Destro resto setup I mash healing ward, bombersetup I spam harness.

Medium armor non-nbs prob have issue with it if they get hit by a glasscannon's SA. So won't comment on that.

Lmao Soul Assault is my execute after bird spam....

Oh yeah

Master_Kas

Waffennacht wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Never had a issue with this ultimate except when outnumbered but I rather die to SA than some cliffrace spammer. But I main a magblade. Destro resto setup I mash healing ward, bombersetup I spam harness.

Medium armor non-nbs prob have issue with it if they get hit by a glasscannon's SA. So won't comment on that.

Lmao Soul Assault is my execute after bird spam....

Oh yeah

Be gone demon!

GreenSoup2HoT

I love my soul siphon ultimate. Nobody uses this thing and its amazing. Ive had two people Soul Assaulting me and i just took it and killed them both.

Akinos

This is how you counter soul assault:
https://youtu.be/4OyIXSpL9aA
Just take it to your freakin' chest. No pain no gain!

Toc de Malsvi

Akinos wrote: »

This is how you counter soul assault:
https://youtu.be/4OyIXSpL9aA
Just take it to your freakin' chest. No pain no gain!

LOL

This is a prime example of why SA alone like any other ultimate is not very lethal. Dude started lighting heavy attack then after being CC'd before finishing it, goes right into SA...why?

SA is incredibly strong vs medium, all it takes is timing ie:

Stack delayed Burst(Curse, Fissure, BackLash, Deep Breath +dots)
Go into SA

If you want to be really good with it, watch for them to use rally before setting up your combo.


I back barred SA on my Stam DK because it is incredibly effective at finishing off other stamina players from range. Heavy Attack+ Poison Inject(from stealth)>SA, and most die. Edit: This works outside of stealth as well, just incredibly lethal from stealth.


All that said. It is only a single target ultimate, thankfully very few actively use it. I would guess that is because its almost laughable versus any decent magicka player.

Lord-Otto

Good stam players block a few ticks and LoS it. Yes, it costs a bit stamina, but if it's news to you that Morrowind forces you to manage your resources, you're a bit late.

It can overperform in a zerg, but when you get zerged, you should die, right?

It's a counter to dodgeroll. SA doesn't need a counter, since it is already designed to be a specialized counter.

Chilly-McFreeze

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Good stam players block a few ticks and LoS it. Yes, it costs a bit stamina, but if it's news to you that Morrowind forces you to manage your resources, you're a bit late.

It can overperform in a zerg, but when you get zerged, you should die, right?

It's a counter to dodgeroll. SA doesn't need a counter, since it is already designed to be a specialized counter.

And when they LoS you open a thread again about how friggin annoying that is and they should fight open and take it to the chest? But again, they can't do that. That's why they LoS. Also, "a bit stamina" and "manage your resources" is a bit sarcastic when you acknowledge that blocking SA costs 17K stamina.

Akinos

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Good stam players block a few ticks and LoS it. Yes, it costs a bit stamina, but if it's news to you that Morrowind forces you to manage your resources, you're a bit late.

It can overperform in a zerg, but when you get zerged, you should die, right?

It's a counter to dodgeroll. SA doesn't need a counter, since it is already designed to be a specialized counter.

And when they LoS you open a thread again about how friggin annoying that is and they should fight open and take it to the chest? But again, they can't do that. That's why they LoS. Also, "a bit stamina" and "manage your resources" is a bit sarcastic when you acknowledge that blocking SA costs 17K stamina.

Considering I was in light armor on my dual wield bar when i face tanked that soul assault, a medium / heavy armor stam build with vigor and rally should be able to do the same. And it would only be 17k stam if you blocked the whole soul assault right? Even if you did block a whole soul assault, most stam builds out there are rolling around with 35-40k max stamina.

Waffennacht

Akinos wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Good stam players block a few ticks and LoS it. Yes, it costs a bit stamina, but if it's news to you that Morrowind forces you to manage your resources, you're a bit late.

It can overperform in a zerg, but when you get zerged, you should die, right?

It's a counter to dodgeroll. SA doesn't need a counter, since it is already designed to be a specialized counter.

And when they LoS you open a thread again about how friggin annoying that is and they should fight open and take it to the chest? But again, they can't do that. That's why they LoS. Also, "a bit stamina" and "manage your resources" is a bit sarcastic when you acknowledge that blocking SA costs 17K stamina.

Considering I was in light armor on my dual wield bar when i face tanked that soul assault, a medium / heavy armor stam build with vigor and rally should be able to do the same. And it would only be 17k stam if you blocked the whole soul assault right? Even if you did block a whole soul assault, most stam builds out there are rolling around with 35-40k max stamina.

I try to pop my SA when my opponent is in execute range. It's VERY rare to find any opponent whom goes down from full against a SA. Unless they just finished a fight with someone else

Akinos

Waffennacht wrote: »

Akinos wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Good stam players block a few ticks and LoS it. Yes, it costs a bit stamina, but if it's news to you that Morrowind forces you to manage your resources, you're a bit late.

It can overperform in a zerg, but when you get zerged, you should die, right?

It's a counter to dodgeroll. SA doesn't need a counter, since it is already designed to be a specialized counter.

And when they LoS you open a thread again about how friggin annoying that is and they should fight open and take it to the chest? But again, they can't do that. That's why they LoS. Also, "a bit stamina" and "manage your resources" is a bit sarcastic when you acknowledge that blocking SA costs 17K stamina.

Considering I was in light armor on my dual wield bar when i face tanked that soul assault, a medium / heavy armor stam build with vigor and rally should be able to do the same. And it would only be 17k stam if you blocked the whole soul assault right? Even if you did block a whole soul assault, most stam builds out there are rolling around with 35-40k max stamina.

I try to pop my SA when my opponent is in execute range. It's VERY rare to find any opponent whom goes down from full against a SA. Unless they just finished a fight with someone else

True, I do the same usually, although lately i generally only use SA against magsorcs. But if your target gets into execute range and they don't time their heals and potions right, then SA should kill them. People in this thread seem upset because there is one skill that prevents them from dodge rolling everything until the end of time.

Asardes

Magicka users can simply hit harness 2x during the channel receiving very little damage and refunding some of the cost. Saved my Templar from soul assault, desto ult and even a few bomb blade attacks.

Ragnaroek93

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Yup, stand there stacking non-scaling shields against 2+ players. With Harness being weaker than Hardened, and Healing fickle. Enjoy being gapclosed through Streak while trying to LoS to actually get time for stacking.

--->

Lord-Otto wrote: »

It can overperform in a zerg, but when you get zerged, you should die, right?

Lord-Otto wrote: »

It's a counter to dodgeroll. SA doesn't need a counter, since it is already designed to be a specialized counter.

--->

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Shieldbreaker is bad design.

It completely bypasses a class'es main defense. A hard counter, which is bad. It's not like Spinner's, that doesn't ignore armor. Why implement a class-defining defense mechanic, when you can ignore it, anyway?

BohnT

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

It can overperform in a zerg, but when you get zerged, you should die, right?

--->

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Yup, stand there stacking non-scaling shields against 2+ players. With Harness being weaker than Hardened, and Healing fickle. Enjoy being gapclosed through Streak while trying to LoS to actually get time for stacking.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

It's a counter to dodgeroll. SA doesn't need a counter, since it is already designed to be a specialized counter.

--->

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Shieldbreaker is bad design.

It completely bypasses a class'es main defense. A hard counter, which is bad. It's not like Spinner's, that doesn't ignore armor. Why implement a class-defining defense mechanic, when you can ignore it, anyway?

I'll call the mental house, this sounds like schizophrenia

C0ndor

With Magden you can add trellis to harness to make SA a nice heal

sly007

Hankrabbit wrote: »

With NB you can cloak it after 2 seconds. Just Vigor and block until u can cloak. Easy

I love how you mention a class specific skill and call it easy.

Akinos wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Akinos wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Good stam players block a few ticks and LoS it. Yes, it costs a bit stamina, but if it's news to you that Morrowind forces you to manage your resources, you're a bit late.

It can overperform in a zerg, but when you get zerged, you should die, right?

It's a counter to dodgeroll. SA doesn't need a counter, since it is already designed to be a specialized counter.

And when they LoS you open a thread again about how friggin annoying that is and they should fight open and take it to the chest? But again, they can't do that. That's why they LoS. Also, "a bit stamina" and "manage your resources" is a bit sarcastic when you acknowledge that blocking SA costs 17K stamina.

Considering I was in light armor on my dual wield bar when i face tanked that soul assault, a medium / heavy armor stam build with vigor and rally should be able to do the same. And it would only be 17k stam if you blocked the whole soul assault right? Even if you did block a whole soul assault, most stam builds out there are rolling around with 35-40k max stamina.

I try to pop my SA when my opponent is in execute range. It's VERY rare to find any opponent whom goes down from full against a SA. Unless they just finished a fight with someone else

True, I do the same usually, although lately i generally only use SA against magsorcs. But if your target gets into execute range and they don't time their heals and potions right, then SA should kill them. People in this thread seem upset because there is one skill that prevents them from dodge rolling everything until the end of time.

People are not upset about the inability to roll dodge soul assault. Soul assault is a counter to roll dodge as it should be. Implying 17k stamina cost is okay for blocking soul assault is extremely biased. The other ultimate that would cost that much to block is rapid fire and that can to roll dodged and cost 175 ultimate.

Akinos wrote: »

This is how you counter soul assault:
https://youtu.be/4OyIXSpL9aA
Just take it to your freakin' chest. No pain no gain!

Lol, that soul assault didn't even dent your health. It did like 15k damage to you. I get hit with 25k soul assaults through block with 30k spell resist, minor projection, and 2.7k or so crit resist. You did not even up up harness. That was a poor build soul assault. Face tanking that is like me putting up a video 1vXing 4 lowbies using light attacks without access to a heal. Please do not insult our intelligence.

Edit.
That 15k damage is not even important. Thing is, the stamina cost to block it is too high.

SodanTok

Akinos wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Good stam players block a few ticks and LoS it. Yes, it costs a bit stamina, but if it's news to you that Morrowind forces you to manage your resources, you're a bit late.

It can overperform in a zerg, but when you get zerged, you should die, right?

It's a counter to dodgeroll. SA doesn't need a counter, since it is already designed to be a specialized counter.

And when they LoS you open a thread again about how friggin annoying that is and they should fight open and take it to the chest? But again, they can't do that. That's why they LoS. Also, "a bit stamina" and "manage your resources" is a bit sarcastic when you acknowledge that blocking SA costs 17K stamina.

Considering I was in light armor on my dual wield bar when i face tanked that soul assault, a medium / heavy armor stam build with vigor and rally should be able to do the same. And it would only be 17k stam if you blocked the whole soul assault right? Even if you did block a whole soul assault, most stam builds out there are rolling around with 35-40k max stamina.

To be fair. If he did anything else it you would be closer to your death. If it was magsorc you would be literally dead (tho you would expect it and try to block/heal knowing you cant face tank SA while being cursed and executed). Also you took less damage than my medium armor warden with minor protection and 20k spell resist so he wasn't very damage based.

And it is not 17k stam. It is 17k stam to block it, another 8k is lost regen and another 9k is healing. The whole point of this complain is the stamina loss. There is no skill in this game this impactful. Someone thought it would be good if 100 cost high damage ulti should just disable cloak, ignore dodge, snare target to limit their LoS chance, give you CC/interrupt immunity so they cant stun/bash you, have it 41m range so they cant break it -> everything to force you to block if you are medium stam build. And then take away half (more than half for most people) of your stamina pool in a patch where resources are VERY VERY needed.

Name any other ulti this impactful versus one build. Destro ulti vs block builds does not even come close.

//EDIT:
But why complain about SA. It is simple result of another problem. BLOCKING IS ***.

Waffennacht

SodanTok wrote: »

Akinos wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Good stam players block a few ticks and LoS it. Yes, it costs a bit stamina, but if it's news to you that Morrowind forces you to manage your resources, you're a bit late.

It can overperform in a zerg, but when you get zerged, you should die, right?

It's a counter to dodgeroll. SA doesn't need a counter, since it is already designed to be a specialized counter.

And when they LoS you open a thread again about how friggin annoying that is and they should fight open and take it to the chest? But again, they can't do that. That's why they LoS. Also, "a bit stamina" and "manage your resources" is a bit sarcastic when you acknowledge that blocking SA costs 17K stamina.

Considering I was in light armor on my dual wield bar when i face tanked that soul assault, a medium / heavy armor stam build with vigor and rally should be able to do the same. And it would only be 17k stam if you blocked the whole soul assault right? Even if you did block a whole soul assault, most stam builds out there are rolling around with 35-40k max stamina.

To be fair. If he did anything else it you would be closer to your death. If it was magsorc you would be literally dead (tho you would expect it and try to block/heal knowing you cant face tank SA while being cursed and executed). Also you took less damage than my medium armor warden with minor protection and 20k spell resist so he wasn't very damage based.

And it is not 17k stam. It is 17k stam to block it, another 8k is lost regen and another 9k is healing. The whole point of this complain is the stamina loss. There is no skill in this game this impactful. Someone thought it would be good if 100 cost high damage ulti should just disable cloak, ignore dodge, snare target to limit their LoS chance, give you CC/interrupt immunity so they cant stun/bash you, have it 41m range so they cant break it -> everything to force you to block if you are medium stam build. And then take away half (more than half for most people) of your stamina pool in a patch where resources are VERY VERY needed.

Cloak works after 2 seconds, just fyi

Medium Stam builds are in a real bind. With the proc sets, SA, etc it's all about killing or dying right the #$_& away

SodanTok

Waffennacht wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Akinos wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Good stam players block a few ticks and LoS it. Yes, it costs a bit stamina, but if it's news to you that Morrowind forces you to manage your resources, you're a bit late.

It can overperform in a zerg, but when you get zerged, you should die, right?

It's a counter to dodgeroll. SA doesn't need a counter, since it is already designed to be a specialized counter.

And when they LoS you open a thread again about how friggin annoying that is and they should fight open and take it to the chest? But again, they can't do that. That's why they LoS. Also, "a bit stamina" and "manage your resources" is a bit sarcastic when you acknowledge that blocking SA costs 17K stamina.

Considering I was in light armor on my dual wield bar when i face tanked that soul assault, a medium / heavy armor stam build with vigor and rally should be able to do the same. And it would only be 17k stam if you blocked the whole soul assault right? Even if you did block a whole soul assault, most stam builds out there are rolling around with 35-40k max stamina.

To be fair. If he did anything else it you would be closer to your death. If it was magsorc you would be literally dead (tho you would expect it and try to block/heal knowing you cant face tank SA while being cursed and executed). Also you took less damage than my medium armor warden with minor protection and 20k spell resist so he wasn't very damage based.

And it is not 17k stam. It is 17k stam to block it, another 8k is lost regen and another 9k is healing. The whole point of this complain is the stamina loss. There is no skill in this game this impactful. Someone thought it would be good if 100 cost high damage ulti should just disable cloak, ignore dodge, snare target to limit their LoS chance, give you CC/interrupt immunity so they cant stun/bash you, have it 41m range so they cant break it -> everything to force you to block if you are medium stam build. And then take away half (more than half for most people) of your stamina pool in a patch where resources are VERY VERY needed.

Cloak works after 2 seconds, just fyi

Medium Stam builds are in a real bind. With the proc sets, SA, etc it's all about killing or dying right the #$_& away

I mean, it is still stupid that it disables cloak on top of anything else it does. But at least every NB knows they need to outheal first 2sec and then cloak. That changes everything. They suddenly eat same damage like everyone else (half duration of full damage = full duration of half damage), dont block so they lose nothing. Another great example of how stupid blocking is because versus everyone not blocking it SA is just pretty normal (in some cases pretty meh) ultimate.

Lord-Otto

Oh, good, people remember me.
I would say good memory, but then I suddenly realize how selective your memory is.

So, let me get this straight:
It's okay that gapclosers completely negate ranged builds. It's okay that dodge negates all CC and root and scales with more players. It's okay that stamina can outmaneuver whole zergs.

But magicka builds aren't allowed one single counter to the above? They are supposed to fight close, eat every CC, have failing shields and should just stand there?

Cool, shows just how pathetic potatoes many people on this forum are. If you die to SA, you're just bad. Period.

Lord-Otto

BohnT wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

It can overperform in a zerg, but when you get zerged, you should die, right?

--->

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Yup, stand there stacking non-scaling shields against 2+ players. With Harness being weaker than Hardened, and Healing fickle. Enjoy being gapclosed through Streak while trying to LoS to actually get time for stacking.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

It's a counter to dodgeroll. SA doesn't need a counter, since it is already designed to be a specialized counter.

--->

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Shieldbreaker is bad design.

It completely bypasses a class'es main defense. A hard counter, which is bad. It's not like Spinner's, that doesn't ignore armor. Why implement a class-defining defense mechanic, when you can ignore it, anyway?

I'll call the mental house, this sounds like schizophrenia

No, this is what people like YOU claim to be right against magicka builds. I'd prefer to have both sides of the coin removed. But since you voted for this, have it. Sucks to choke on your own zergling strategies, doesn't it?

leepalmer95

Lord-Otto wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

It can overperform in a zerg, but when you get zerged, you should die, right?

--->

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Yup, stand there stacking non-scaling shields against 2+ players. With Harness being weaker than Hardened, and Healing fickle. Enjoy being gapclosed through Streak while trying to LoS to actually get time for stacking.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

It's a counter to dodgeroll. SA doesn't need a counter, since it is already designed to be a specialized counter.

--->

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Shieldbreaker is bad design.

It completely bypasses a class'es main defense. A hard counter, which is bad. It's not like Spinner's, that doesn't ignore armor. Why implement a class-defining defense mechanic, when you can ignore it, anyway?

I'll call the mental house, this sounds like schizophrenia

No, this is what people like YOU claim to be right against magicka builds. I'd prefer to have both sides of the coin removed. But since you voted for this, have it. Sucks to choke on your own zergling strategies, doesn't it?

He's got a point.though.

Shieldbreaker is bad because its ignores a main defence.

Soul assault is ok even though it ignores a main defence.

What? They both achieve the same thing, ignoring a main defence.

Waffennacht

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

It can overperform in a zerg, but when you get zerged, you should die, right?

--->

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Yup, stand there stacking non-scaling shields against 2+ players. With Harness being weaker than Hardened, and Healing fickle. Enjoy being gapclosed through Streak while trying to LoS to actually get time for stacking.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

It's a counter to dodgeroll. SA doesn't need a counter, since it is already designed to be a specialized counter.

--->

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Shieldbreaker is bad design.

It completely bypasses a class'es main defense. A hard counter, which is bad. It's not like Spinner's, that doesn't ignore armor. Why implement a class-defining defense mechanic, when you can ignore it, anyway?

I'll call the mental house, this sounds like schizophrenia

No, this is what people like YOU claim to be right against magicka builds. I'd prefer to have both sides of the coin removed. But since you voted for this, have it. Sucks to choke on your own zergling strategies, doesn't it?

He's got a point.though.

Shieldbreaker is bad because its ignores a main defence.

Soul assault is ok even though it ignores a main defence.

What? They both achieve the same thing, ignoring a main defence.

Not quite the same

Shield breaker= forever
Soul Assault = 4 seconds every X amount of time

Though I don't think shield breaker needs to removed as it's so niche - it's worthless against Stam builds for example. I'd rather run Knightslayer

SodanTok

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Oh, good, people remember me.
I would say good memory, but then I suddenly realize how selective your memory is.

So, let me get this straight:
It's okay that gapclosers completely negate ranged builds. It's okay that dodge negates all CC and root and scales with more players. It's okay that stamina can outmaneuver whole zergs.

But magicka builds aren't allowed one single counter to the above? They are supposed to fight close, eat every CC, have failing shields and should just stand there?

Cool, shows just how pathetic potatoes many people on this forum are. If you die to SA, you're just bad. Period.

I give you A for effort at reading. Next time it will be F for failing to do it. Ever since the start of this thread it was never about dying to SA. People survive SA no problem. The price for that is what this thread is about.
Nobody even suggested making it dodgeable. Your point is not just bad, it is not even point...

Leap is counter to dodge roll.
Soul assault is punishment

leepalmer95

Waffennacht wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

It can overperform in a zerg, but when you get zerged, you should die, right?

--->

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Yup, stand there stacking non-scaling shields against 2+ players. With Harness being weaker than Hardened, and Healing fickle. Enjoy being gapclosed through Streak while trying to LoS to actually get time for stacking.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

It's a counter to dodgeroll. SA doesn't need a counter, since it is already designed to be a specialized counter.

--->

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Shieldbreaker is bad design.

It completely bypasses a class'es main defense. A hard counter, which is bad. It's not like Spinner's, that doesn't ignore armor. Why implement a class-defining defense mechanic, when you can ignore it, anyway?

I'll call the mental house, this sounds like schizophrenia

No, this is what people like YOU claim to be right against magicka builds. I'd prefer to have both sides of the coin removed. But since you voted for this, have it. Sucks to choke on your own zergling strategies, doesn't it?

He's got a point.though.

Shieldbreaker is bad because its ignores a main defence.

Soul assault is ok even though it ignores a main defence.

What? They both achieve the same thing, ignoring a main defence.

Not quite the same

Shield breaker= forever
Soul Assault = 4 seconds every X amount of time

Though I don't think shield breaker needs to removed as it's so niche - it's worthless against Stam builds for example. I'd rather run Knightslayer

Shieldbreaker = can be mostly negated by power surge

Soul assault = cheap, stops you and forces to to waste most of your resources. 17k minimum just from blocking without s&b, not including the 2 regen ticks you lose or the stamina you waste spamming heals in order to counter it killing you even though your blocking.

My mag sorc has a 64k toolip on soul assault which is over 8 ticks. 8k toolip a tick lmao.

Waffennacht

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

It can overperform in a zerg, but when you get zerged, you should die, right?

--->

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Yup, stand there stacking non-scaling shields against 2+ players. With Harness being weaker than Hardened, and Healing fickle. Enjoy being gapclosed through Streak while trying to LoS to actually get time for stacking.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

It's a counter to dodgeroll. SA doesn't need a counter, since it is already designed to be a specialized counter.

--->

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Shieldbreaker is bad design.

It completely bypasses a class'es main defense. A hard counter, which is bad. It's not like Spinner's, that doesn't ignore armor. Why implement a class-defining defense mechanic, when you can ignore it, anyway?

I'll call the mental house, this sounds like schizophrenia

No, this is what people like YOU claim to be right against magicka builds. I'd prefer to have both sides of the coin removed. But since you voted for this, have it. Sucks to choke on your own zergling strategies, doesn't it?

He's got a point.though.

Shieldbreaker is bad because its ignores a main defence.

Soul assault is ok even though it ignores a main defence.

What? They both achieve the same thing, ignoring a main defence.

Not quite the same

Shield breaker= forever
Soul Assault = 4 seconds every X amount of time

Though I don't think shield breaker needs to removed as it's so niche - it's worthless against Stam builds for example. I'd rather run Knightslayer

Shieldbreaker = can be mostly negated by power surge

Soul assault = cheap, stops you and forces to to waste most of your resources. 17k minimum just from blocking without s&b, not including the 2 regen ticks you lose or the stamina you waste spamming heals in order to counter it killing you even though your blocking.

My mag sorc has a 64k toolip on soul assault which is over 8 ticks. 8k toolip a tick lmao.

Lol we've had this discussion before Lee. I'm the one with a 116,000 SA but remember Sorcs and wardens are not the only ones to be considered with shields. Just saying.

SA, just like SB, is niche - it's very ineffective in many situations, and unlike many ults, can get you killed. For it's selectivity it gains power.

I think it's a fine ability, for magicka builds there is no other cheap ult alternative for CP - it's the counter part of DboS. In no CP, it's countered more frequently.

I think some builds and players do get auto pwned - but that's the same argument AC gets - some builds are just not viable because of the environment and this community and ZoS is apparently O.K. with that

leepalmer95

Waffennacht wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

It can overperform in a zerg, but when you get zerged, you should die, right?

--->

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Yup, stand there stacking non-scaling shields against 2+ players. With Harness being weaker than Hardened, and Healing fickle. Enjoy being gapclosed through Streak while trying to LoS to actually get time for stacking.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

It's a counter to dodgeroll. SA doesn't need a counter, since it is already designed to be a specialized counter.

--->

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Shieldbreaker is bad design.

It completely bypasses a class'es main defense. A hard counter, which is bad. It's not like Spinner's, that doesn't ignore armor. Why implement a class-defining defense mechanic, when you can ignore it, anyway?

I'll call the mental house, this sounds like schizophrenia

No, this is what people like YOU claim to be right against magicka builds. I'd prefer to have both sides of the coin removed. But since you voted for this, have it. Sucks to choke on your own zergling strategies, doesn't it?

He's got a point.though.

Shieldbreaker is bad because its ignores a main defence.

Soul assault is ok even though it ignores a main defence.

What? They both achieve the same thing, ignoring a main defence.

Not quite the same

Shield breaker= forever
Soul Assault = 4 seconds every X amount of time

Though I don't think shield breaker needs to removed as it's so niche - it's worthless against Stam builds for example. I'd rather run Knightslayer

Shieldbreaker = can be mostly negated by power surge

Soul assault = cheap, stops you and forces to to waste most of your resources. 17k minimum just from blocking without s&b, not including the 2 regen ticks you lose or the stamina you waste spamming heals in order to counter it killing you even though your blocking.

My mag sorc has a 64k toolip on soul assault which is over 8 ticks. 8k toolip a tick lmao.

Lol we've had this discussion before Lee. I'm the one with a 116,000 SA but remember Sorcs and wardens are not the only ones to be considered with shields. Just saying.

SA, just like SB, is niche - it's very ineffective in many situations, and unlike many ults, can get you killed. For it's selectivity it gains power.

I think it's a fine ability, for magicka builds there is no other cheap ult alternative for CP - it's the counter part of DboS. In no CP, it's countered more frequently.

I think some builds and players do get auto pwned - but that's the same argument AC gets - some builds are just not viable because of the environment and this community and ZoS is apparently O.K. with that

I melt basically anything in medium on in, it's quite broken.

Even with a 60-65k tooltip medium builds have no chance. Curse + fury + soul assault = rip.

Waffennacht

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

It can overperform in a zerg, but when you get zerged, you should die, right?

--->

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Yup, stand there stacking non-scaling shields against 2+ players. With Harness being weaker than Hardened, and Healing fickle. Enjoy being gapclosed through Streak while trying to LoS to actually get time for stacking.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

It's a counter to dodgeroll. SA doesn't need a counter, since it is already designed to be a specialized counter.

--->

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Shieldbreaker is bad design.

It completely bypasses a class'es main defense. A hard counter, which is bad. It's not like Spinner's, that doesn't ignore armor. Why implement a class-defining defense mechanic, when you can ignore it, anyway?

I'll call the mental house, this sounds like schizophrenia

No, this is what people like YOU claim to be right against magicka builds. I'd prefer to have both sides of the coin removed. But since you voted for this, have it. Sucks to choke on your own zergling strategies, doesn't it?

He's got a point.though.

Shieldbreaker is bad because its ignores a main defence.

Soul assault is ok even though it ignores a main defence.

What? They both achieve the same thing, ignoring a main defence.

Not quite the same

Shield breaker= forever
Soul Assault = 4 seconds every X amount of time

Though I don't think shield breaker needs to removed as it's so niche - it's worthless against Stam builds for example. I'd rather run Knightslayer

Shieldbreaker = can be mostly negated by power surge

Soul assault = cheap, stops you and forces to to waste most of your resources. 17k minimum just from blocking without s&b, not including the 2 regen ticks you lose or the stamina you waste spamming heals in order to counter it killing you even though your blocking.

My mag sorc has a 64k toolip on soul assault which is over 8 ticks. 8k toolip a tick lmao.

Lol we've had this discussion before Lee. I'm the one with a 116,000 SA but remember Sorcs and wardens are not the only ones to be considered with shields. Just saying.

SA, just like SB, is niche - it's very ineffective in many situations, and unlike many ults, can get you killed. For it's selectivity it gains power.

I think it's a fine ability, for magicka builds there is no other cheap ult alternative for CP - it's the counter part of DboS. In no CP, it's countered more frequently.

I think some builds and players do get auto pwned - but that's the same argument AC gets - some builds are just not viable because of the environment and this community and ZoS is apparently O.K. with that

I melt basically anything in medium on in, it's quite broken.

Even with a 60-65k tooltip medium builds have no chance. Curse + fury + soul assault = rip.

But that's exactly the same as stealth - Surprise - Selene - Incap - Viper - dead which happens to medium.

It's true that ZoS has made an environment in which you either have massive shields or massive mitigation or massive instant kills/death. There is no middle ground, SA is just a single part of why that build you speak of is completely unviable.

You can't use a build that's impractical as an example for why something is performing too much, not enough etc because every argument that is given as to why SA is too much can be made for practically anything in this environment (SA, AC, proc sets, Curse, Dive, poisons, etc)

Lord-Otto

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

It can overperform in a zerg, but when you get zerged, you should die, right?

--->

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Yup, stand there stacking non-scaling shields against 2+ players. With Harness being weaker than Hardened, and Healing fickle. Enjoy being gapclosed through Streak while trying to LoS to actually get time for stacking.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

It's a counter to dodgeroll. SA doesn't need a counter, since it is already designed to be a specialized counter.

--->

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Shieldbreaker is bad design.

It completely bypasses a class'es main defense. A hard counter, which is bad. It's not like Spinner's, that doesn't ignore armor. Why implement a class-defining defense mechanic, when you can ignore it, anyway?

I'll call the mental house, this sounds like schizophrenia

No, this is what people like YOU claim to be right against magicka builds. I'd prefer to have both sides of the coin removed. But since you voted for this, have it. Sucks to choke on your own zergling strategies, doesn't it?

He's got a point.though.

Shieldbreaker is bad because its ignores a main defence.

Soul assault is ok even though it ignores a main defence.

What? They both achieve the same thing, ignoring a main defence.

You're still off.

I want BOTH gone. No hard counters in this game. Only soft counters and so many options for both camps that you'll never die because you're restricted. Everyone should be able to get away from zergs with ease. Everyone should have scaling mechanics like dynamic ult or dodgeroll to give you a chance at 2v1 and so. Cyrodiil should not be ruled by numbers and cheese. That is my point.

But I'm accepting SA because people like you cinstantly bash magicka players complaining about Shuffle, dodge and Shieldbreaker. If you accept broken counters to magicka, then don't be a hypocrite and accept counters to stamina for once.

And for the record. I have yet to kill a competent player with SA under normal conditions. It is blocked, healed, shielded. Only when the whole zerg is wailing on a good player does SA finish the job. And well, if you play badly. Since Cyro is zergs, there is nothing wrong with SA in my opinion. I advise Dawnbreaker, to deal with any player that knows his stuff. SA is zergnoob ult and only great at thinning out zerglings. If you die to it, you're bad or got outnumbered.

leepalmer95

Lord-Otto wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

It can overperform in a zerg, but when you get zerged, you should die, right?

--->

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Yup, stand there stacking non-scaling shields against 2+ players. With Harness being weaker than Hardened, and Healing fickle. Enjoy being gapclosed through Streak while trying to LoS to actually get time for stacking.

Lord-Otto wrote: »

It's a counter to dodgeroll. SA doesn't need a counter, since it is already designed to be a specialized counter.

--->

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Shieldbreaker is bad design.

It completely bypasses a class'es main defense. A hard counter, which is bad. It's not like Spinner's, that doesn't ignore armor. Why implement a class-defining defense mechanic, when you can ignore it, anyway?

I'll call the mental house, this sounds like schizophrenia

No, this is what people like YOU claim to be right against magicka builds. I'd prefer to have both sides of the coin removed. But since you voted for this, have it. Sucks to choke on your own zergling strategies, doesn't it?

He's got a point.though.

Shieldbreaker is bad because its ignores a main defence.

Soul assault is ok even though it ignores a main defence.

What? They both achieve the same thing, ignoring a main defence.

You're still off.

I want BOTH gone. No hard counters in this game. Only soft counters and so many options for both camps that you'll never die because you're restricted. Everyone should be able to get away from zergs with ease. Everyone should have scaling mechanics like dynamic ult or dodgeroll to give you a chance at 2v1 and so. Cyrodiil should not be ruled by numbers and cheese. That is my point.

But I'm accepting SA because people like you cinstantly bash magicka players complaining about Shuffle, dodge and Shieldbreaker. If you accept broken counters to magicka, then don't be a hypocrite and accept counters to stamina for once.

And for the record. I have yet to kill a competent player with SA under normal conditions. It is blocked, healed, shielded. Only when the whole zerg is wailing on a good player does SA finish the job. And well, if you play badly. Since Cyro is zergs, there is nothing wrong with SA in my opinion. I advise Dawnbreaker, to deal with any player that knows his stuff. SA is zergnoob ult and only great at thinning out zerglings. If you die to it, you're bad or got outnumbered.

I'll use dawnbreaker when it can't be dodge rolled.

There are plenty of counters to dodge roll already though. A lot of things go through roll.