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5 PVP QOL Adjustments
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NBrookus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭So in addition to no stam regen while blocking, getting charged a cost for block every .25 seconds, you want there to be an escalating cost for block? That makes no sense in a game where skills don't have cooldowns. That javelin/cliffracer/flame reach spammer can use attacks that must be blocked from max range every second. This would be a huge buff for single skill spammers, not an incentive for reactive play.
Even if you have the reflexes of a rattlesnake, high quality gaming hardware, superior internet and play on a mythical ESO server where your character is instantly responsive, selective blocking doesn't exist if you need to block attacks every second. There is zero point to dropping block for half a second because you aren't going to get any stam regen back.
Meanwhile, there is a new counterplay mechanic -- if you block a player's heavy attack they don't get resources back. This is fair since you aren't getting any of your block resources back at the same time. Can you selectively block those resto and lightning heavies resource return ticks?
An escalating cost on block only makes sense if there is an escalating cost to recasting every skill; damage, healing, everything. But hey, let's continue nerfing mitigation into the ground until whomever attacks first with the most proc sets is an "I win" button.3 -
GloryClass Representative
Reactive blocking isn't a thing the way people want it to be a thing. Outside of an obvious channeled/casted ability the only thing you could call reactive blocking is using it to mitigate damage when you're in a dangerous situation, and that generally requires you to hold block for a few seconds or more.
I would be 100% for increased cost of blocking that has been suggested if we also added true punishments for people who are mindlessly spamming attacks on someone blocking.
Sure, add scaling costs for blocking. Also make it so that if you attack someone blocking you become disoriented and knocked back (kind of like how NPC guards work) because you were foolish enough to attack someone blocking. This would make reactive blocking more a thing while also making enemies actually care whether you are blocking or not.
But I doubt people will like this, because it would ruin their ability to spam wrecking blow on an enemy being forced to hold block instead of just eating uninterruptable channeled attacks like a potato.mDK will rise again.
Rebuild Necromancer pet AI.
@Glorious since I have too many characters to list
Ádamant
Strongly against Faction Lock6 -
paulsimonps✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Last i checked this was the alliance war section right? I've tried to be as considerate as possible to pve in what I stated in my op.
No need to come in here with ur pitch forks and torches. Yes I pve, yes I do end game raiding. Battle spirit is a thing and changes can be made though that.
And for those crying about mDK I assume you are new here and don't know who I am.
You say put it in the battlespirit but we already know that ZOS hates putting things there and don't want PvE and PvP mechanics to be too different, there already are a few exceptions to that but its not something that the devs like. So PvPers can stop saying, "lets put it in battlespirit" cause the devs don't want that.
The devs want to balance both together, thats just the way things are, there are multiple reasons for this. So if suggestions to changes are being made then they should take that into account.
And speaking PvE wise, that blocking change that was suggested earlier in the thread is something that while it seems perfect in PvP would not work well in PvE. Some fights you have to be able to block for a longer period and increasing cost based on amount of times hit will either kill off tanks too easily or require more than 2 tanks, speaking Trial wise of course. And to be honest, tanks already have enough to worry about so adding another layer to it all won't make things any better. We should incentives dropping block, not force it.
So again, sadly PvE and PvP goes hand in hand and unless the devs figure out a way to get around the main issues with having two systems then we won't be seeing them ever change that.1 -
paulsimonps✭✭✭✭✭
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Reactive blocking isn't a thing the way people want it to be a thing. Outside of an obvious channeled/casted ability the only thing you could call reactive blocking is using it to mitigate damage when you're in a dangerous situation, and that generally requires you to hold block for a few seconds or more.
I would be 100% for increased cost of blocking that has been suggested if we also added true punishments for people who are mindlessly spamming attacks on someone blocking.
Sure, add scaling costs for blocking. Also make it so that if you attack someone blocking you become disoriented and knocked back (kind of like how NPC guards work) because you were foolish enough to attack someone blocking. This would make reactive blocking more a thing while also making enemies actually care whether you are blocking or not.
But I doubt people will like this, because it would ruin their ability to spam wrecking blow on an enemy being forced to hold block instead of just eating uninterruptable channeled attacks like a potato.
Having quick and reactive blocking will never be a thing as long as this game is a tab target hybrid. This is not an action combat game, and by that I mean that the damage calculations on 90%+ of all attacks are done before any animation has been done and while we have damage immune roll dodges unlike wow for example we don't have the quick and responsive attacks and blocks of actual action combat games. I would LOVE if it was an action combat game, but since it is not we should not ask for changes that would depend on it being so. Its why we have block casting for example. Cause you would not be able to react quick enough block in coming attack cause most of the time the damge would already be done before any animation has even been seen yet.
Though adding more play/counter play with blocking certain attacks or interrupting others would be cool. We see it in NPCs like you said so why not keep the trend that ZOS has that they want to keep PvE and PvP similar and have the same or similar rules apply to us.0 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Can we take a moment to understand why dodgeroll and streak scale in cost?
They're one press, one use skills. Dodgeroll in particular is nearly a second of damage mitigation, snare immunity, repositioning, and a speed boost for most players using it a lot. Disregarding how good that is, because of the way the skills are used there's the potential to have high enough regen to cast them non-stop. This is broken. Everyone who played 1.6 remembers the infinite dodge builds, and a while before that the infinite streak builds. You don't run into the same issue with block because it's already been nerfed to disable stam regen and now it chunks your stamina every .25 seconds as opposed to .5 seconds last patch and 1 second at launch. I can't believe we're in a thread saying block doesn't cost enough when dodge roll got a buff and block effectively costs twice as much as the previous patch.
I can't be the only one who sees the difference between the skills and the fact that you can't have purely reactive defenses in a game with mostly instant cast abilities with no cooldown other than the 1sec global cd? Especially a defense that doesn't even stop you from taking damage, but simply lowers the incoming damage.
Nobody is saying that block should have the same cost scaling as dodgeroll, but it should function similarly. Block should have a lower base cost than current but each subsequent block within the window should cost X% more, ramping up until it is no longer possible to maintain full block.
Developer comments:This will be a buff if you block reactively and a nerf if you try to blocktard your way through a whole fight.
Using a window I would be punished for blocking every dizzying swing sent at me every second. Scaling for holding block would need to be severe enough to punish players who do nothing but block, but that would inadvertently also punish players who are using it just to survive a period of high burst. There's no way to fix this issue any better than it currently is.
Reactive blocking isn't a thing the way people want it to be a thing. Outside of an obvious channeled/casted ability the only thing you could call reactive blocking is using it to mitigate damage when you're in a dangerous situation, and that generally requires you to hold block for a few seconds or more. If I get bursted to low health instantly with no chance of avoiding that, and my only counterplay is to hold block... if I can't recover within 3 seconds because I'm defile debuffed or any number of reasons I should be punished for using my only form of damage mitigation? Because some random decided they'd go into pvp and do no damage, but sit there and watch you waste your time on them? I honestly haven't found a single person in BG's that was unkillable especially when I'm in a duo let alone full BG group. I've played a ton of BG's too. I've watched 4mans on stream waste their time trying to kill 1-2 people and you know what... those people were getting stunned by things other than fear so they damn sure weren't holding block the whole time. Pretty much all of them had guard or shield/resto ult.
Honestly I think this demonstrates more than anything the lack of viable defensive options available to mDKs and Magplars. It's basically be a blocktato or bust. No mobility, no cloak, crappy shields. mDKs and Magplars need to be built to take/tank damage or its RIP.
NOW IF WE HAD BLINDING FLASHES AND MAJOR EVASION ON CINDER STORM BACK then our reliance on block would be attenuated considerably. But ZOS has routinely plundered the built-in defensive mechanisms for the two "stand your ground" defensive classes. That's the real problem. You don't see Sorcerer's or Nightblades in here worrying about block. They don't need to rely on block. If mDKs and Magplars didn't need to rely on block either then ZOS could actually going about targeting the permablock block builds without destroying class balance. But they would actually need to address the defensive deficiencies inherent to mDK and Magplar. Making Blazing Shield viable for non-troll health builds would go a long way toward opening a defensive option to Magplars that isn't blocking, for example.
I would love--LOVE--to run something other than S/B on my mDK. But I can't because that's my only form of defense. That's the problem, IMO.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT3 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Agree with everything apart from the procs = dots.
That'll basically make them useless vs templars where anything dot related is useless, advantage templars compare to other classes. To a quite lesser extent nbs who can suppress the dots.
When they do nerf procs sets it should be in a way where they are still effective vs every class the same and not completely useless vs one.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
LeifErickson✭✭✭✭✭
✭And...
End with tower resources
The doors are over now, they need to end the towers.
Finally someone who knows what they are talking about!0 -
Soulac✭✭✭✭✭
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R.I.P Dawnbreaker / Auriel´s Bow
Member of the Arena Guild and the overpowered Banana Squad.
Nathaerizh aka Cat - Nightblade V16 - EU
- Meow -0
