Proc sets need to go!!!

MurderMostFoul · June 2017

Add this line to all proc sets that need it:

Enemy players take 50% less damage.

Fixed

olsborg · June 2017

Proccsets needs a serious nerf, yes.

But what they shouldn't do is universally nerf every proccset the same way. They should focus on burst proccsets like previously mentioned in this thread, valkyn, selene, viper etc. There are underused proccsets that arent widely used at all because they perform well under par already, a few examples imo is sheer venom, kragh and Galerions revenge. Now these underused/"weaker" proccsets was also nerfed last time with the nocrit change, wich wasnt rly called for. Bursty proccsets is and has always been the problem imo.

Kram8ion · June 2017

When you have shield stacking sorcs and permablockers what are you expecting people to do

thankyourat · June 2017

CyrusArya wrote: »

The point I'm trying to make is, you are not gonna kill any decent players running no damage outside of proc sets, unless you stack them. You are exaggerating the issue. A single proc set on its own is by no means over powered or difficult to deal with, and it will not carry anyone. Strong yes, overpowered to the extent you claim..no. It only becomes an issue when you stack them.

Also, skoria absolutely is as strong as stamina proc sets as it cannot be avoided and is ranged, and procs at a very healthy rate with just a few dots.

Wait can skoria not be blocked? I haven't tested it but I'm pretty sure I've blocked skoria and had my skoria blocked.

Toc de Malsvi · June 2017

DeHei wrote: »

Best Option would be super strong PvP only Sets without any proccs, but much much damage reduction with increasing your output together. There wouldn't be any discussions anymore about Monster- and proccsets.. It worked in WoW too and was a good deal.

I know Nightblades with heavy armor and this sets together: Warriors Fury and Seventh Legion brute... They dont need to do much. Normally they wear 2x 1H Axes for Dual wield and 1x 2H Axe.. They just stack the buffs on that sets and spamming some skills.. the bleedingeffect will kill you..

I disagree. It only worked to isolate PVP from PVE it didn't improve problems with PVP balance. If you started too late in the season you would get rocked by players fully geared and would earn hardly any Honor or Conquest. It rewarded playing early in the season and decking out your toons, at which point you could log out for the rest of the season, only logging in when you wanted to trash all the "noobs" that didn't start as early as you.

I played on both ends and when you started early it was a race to gear up. Where as starting late was a horrific grind that ended in you gearing up around the same time as the season was about to end.

STEVIL · June 2017

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

(From a pvp perspective):

With the sustain changes that came with Morrowind, proc sets are more of an issue than ever. Since it's harder to sustain, builds had to sacrifice some damage so they wouldn't run out of resources. Here proc sets with their "Build your character as tanky and sustainable as possible cuz with a proc set you hit hard anyway" attitude come as a godsend. They are now stupidly op, especially in no cp environements like battlegrounds.

Proc sets need to be nerfed or removed from the game, because at this point it's hard to play successfully without them.

Imo some of the worst proc sets that need to be addressed asap are:

vipers sting
selene
tremorscale
and velidreth

if this is to be limited to PVP perspective, should it not be posted in the pvp combat section?

Aren't we in the PVP Combat & Skills section?

it was not when i made that post but it has been moved since.

Czirne · June 2017

Kram8ion wrote: »

When you have shield stacking sorcs and permablockers what are you expecting people to do

^^This

Gothren · June 2017

most will sacrifice sustain for better burst damage. punish them with resource poisons.

GeorgeBlack · June 2017

Pvp in eso:
For your defence/sustain go regen and Med armor skill.
For your atk go proc set + Animation cancel burst

Every Cyrodiil build. Any class, magika or stamina.

@ZOS_CoriJ
@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
@ZOS_GaryA
@ZOS_TristanK

Ultimate_Overlord · June 2017

Forums in eso:
For your nerf requests, you complain about your most hated skill, set or mechanic in every thread, even if its not relevant.
For your buff requests, you tag every zos dev you know.

Every forum complainer. Any gender, male or female.

@GeorgeBlack

WhiteMage · June 2017

Proc sets are all over performing in PvP (at least the ones that generally come to mind). Proc sets can exist in the PvP evironment we have, but there needs to be clear limits on them, in both potency and availability. Personally, I am fond of my skoria and this shapes my opinion, on top of certain proc sets being kind of awesome. Almost certainly it would be for the best if all proc sets were to disappear overnight, but... ZOS. You know how it is.

I think the monster sets are pretty iconic and cool and, because a player can only ever have 1 of them slotted at a time, I think it may be ok it this was the only place "proc" sets could be found. The problem is pretty clear with 5pc proc sets: you can stack them and that's to say nothing of their potency. You could get away with minimal rebalances with this solution, whether or not it's the right move.

In all conceivable PvP situations, viper crushes hundings by a factor of 3-12x. Frankly, that alone suggests they need a rebalance. It doesn't even consider the disparity of effectiveness that is has when thrown into PvE. The DPS calculations for proc sets are incredibly simple and they do rank very lowly compared to other options. Just looking at viper, it's clear that the set is pathetic. If you want to be Alcast, the power ceiling on it is too low. It will not take you the distance. If you want to be Sypher, viper lifts you up on a pedestal. No matter how bad you are, there is a minimum effectiveness you have while wearing that set. Viper just doesn't belong.

We should bring back special effects and stat increases on sets. These help showcase players' skill and ingenuity.

I'm kind of tired, so this post drifted from where I intended it to go. I'll stop here.

GeorgeBlack · June 2017

@WhiteMage

More reasonable and objective people like that would be nice.

My 2 cents on gear sets.

Bring sets that boost
Stamknight

Sets for magDK

Sets for stamNB

Sets for magiNB

sets for Templars

Sets for Dualwielders

Sets for 1h/shield Stamina

Sets for Staff mages.

I am sick of seeing tank magika DK with Shuffle aoeing 20 ppl.

Sick of 2handed Stamina that kill 5 people in 10minutes by sustaining and then bursting single targets. (With shuffle)

Procs need to go
Shuffle needs limitations
Magika aoe draining NB/DK needs limitations.

Czirne · June 2017

There are more problems in pvp, proc sets is only one of them.
I myself was running bone pirate with spriggans for a 2 weeks in bgs and last week i am running viper and bloodspawn, and I can tell it is almost imposible to kill some classes without proc sets.

Figting againts builds like magicka templar, magicka DK or magicka sorc is painful without procs, if your opponent have at least half of a brain and know how to use it. You basicly wait for their mistake in order to kill them. No matter what you do, how perfect you time your burst and animation cancel everything you can, you wont get a kill without them making a HUGE mistake

- when sorc forget to recast shield right before his cc immunity ends, when magplar do one more unnecesary dodgeroll and burns lot of stamina and can't block, or when magicka DK players mouse run out of battery or he get a muscle spasm into his hands so he cant hold block and casting all his abilities while permanently blocking - that is only way how to kill some builds without proc sets.

Long story short - proc sets are bad for game, toxic, but sadly necessary in current state of game.

Ragnaroek93 · June 2017

If everything you are doing is spamming damage skills without trying to do some burst combos then yes, you won't kill anything without proc sets.

Czirne · June 2017

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

If everything you are doing is spamming damage skills without trying to do some burst combos then yes, you won't kill anything without proc sets.

I will quote myself to be more clear for you.

Czirne wrote: »

No matter what you do, how perfect you time your burst and animation cancel everything you can, you wont get a kill without them making a HUGE mistake

NBrookus · June 2017

Czirne wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

If everything you are doing is spamming damage skills without trying to do some burst combos then yes, you won't kill anything without proc sets.

I will quote myself to be more clear for you.

Czirne wrote: »

No matter what you do, how perfect you time your burst and animation cancel everything you can, you wont get a kill without them making a HUGE mistake

Said every magicka DK since 1.6.

Ragnaroek93 · June 2017

Czirne wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

If everything you are doing is spamming damage skills without trying to do some burst combos then yes, you won't kill anything without proc sets.

I will quote myself to be more clear for you.

Czirne wrote: »

No matter what you do, how perfect you time your burst and animation cancel everything you can, you wont get a kill without them making a HUGE mistake

And I will tell you that this is not true.

Rickter · June 2017

Honestly I'm not sure why it takes the development team so long to address pvp imbalance. If a set is broken in pve, so what? all it does is let that group and other groups profit. if something is broke in pvp, one person profits at the expense of another individual.

thats the most confounding factor. in PvE - exploits profit everyone

in PvP exploits profit at others expense. Other paying customers are hurt by the issue. this just isnt the case in PvE.

which causes me to put my Tin foil hat on and i think there is one of two things happening:

1) ZoS knows that PvE content brings in the most money so they stay on top of exploits faster and more attentively because too many exploits or the right exploit can trivialize and devalue PvE content.

2) Wrobel has an iron fist on pvp changes and nothing can get approved for patch unless he says so. Problem is: Wrobel wears too many hats in the ZOS office and he doesnt have time to dedicate solely to PvP balances. Therefore, nothing is getting done.

so which one is it ZOS? is the speculation ridiculous? this is what happens when you keep silent on this important topics. we speculate. generally negatively.

altemriel · June 2017

nope nope

br0steen · June 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

I'd like them to nerf individual proc sets in order to not kill off the already unused ones but i doubt they'll do that.

Stick in battle spirit damage done by sets reduced by 30%. Done.

I like it!

@leepalmer95 on second thought, no I don't because every idea the community likes and agrees on is a sure fire way to make sure it doesn't happen

A solid point to which I say I don't agree with either of you!

Czirne · June 2017

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Czirne wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

If everything you are doing is spamming damage skills without trying to do some burst combos then yes, you won't kill anything without proc sets.

I will quote myself to be more clear for you.

Czirne wrote: »

No matter what you do, how perfect you time your burst and animation cancel everything you can, you wont get a kill without them making a HUGE mistake

And I will tell you that this is not true.

Well ok, tell what i did wrong:
Playing as stamplar, i see sorc, I put power of the light on him, stampede, jabs, heavy atack, jabs light atack - I save my cc about 2-1 sec before power of the light goes off. When its that time, I cc(dizz or javeling, does not matter i was testing both) followed by stampede +LA+ crescent sweep, ussualy power of the light deal damage right after crescent sweep, immidiately follow by la+execute+bash. Most sorcs just ccbreak after this burst, reaply all shields and streak away.

Ectheliontnacil · June 2017

@Rickter

Rickter wrote: »

Honestly I'm not sure why it takes the development team so long to address pvp imbalance. If a set is broken in pve, so what? all it does is let that group and other groups profit. if something is broke in pvp, one person profits at the expense of another individual.

thats the most confounding factor. in PvE - exploits profit everyone

in PvP exploits profit at others expense. Other paying customers are hurt by the issue. this just isnt the case in PvE.

which causes me to put my Tin foil hat on and i think there is one of two things happening:

1) ZoS knows that PvE content brings in the most money so they stay on top of exploits faster and more attentively because too many exploits or the right exploit can trivialize and devalue PvE content.

2) Wrobel has an iron fist on pvp changes and nothing can get approved for patch unless he says so. Problem is: Wrobel wears too many hats in the ZOS office and he doesnt have time to dedicate solely to PvP balances. Therefore, nothing is getting done.

so which one is it ZOS? is the speculation ridiculous? this is what happens when you keep silent on this important topics. we speculate. generally negatively.

Agreed!

And another big problem is the fact that they completely ignore player feedback...there's a lot of core issues with the game that players have been complaining about for ages and they just don't get addressed or if they do it's half a year later when there's already tons of new broken stuff ^^

FearlessOne_2014 · June 2017

Rickter wrote: »

Honestly I'm not sure why it takes the development team so long to address pvp imbalance. If a set is broken in pve, so what? all it does is let that group and other groups profit. if something is broke in pvp, one person profits at the expense of another individual.

thats the most confounding factor. in PvE - exploits profit everyone

in PvP exploits profit at others expense. Other paying customers are hurt by the issue. this just isnt the case in PvE.

which causes me to put my Tin foil hat on and i think there is one of two things happening:

1) ZoS knows that PvE content brings in the most money so they stay on top of exploits faster and more attentively because too many exploits or the right exploit can trivialize and devalue PvE content.

2) Wrobel has an iron fist on pvp changes and nothing can get approved for patch unless he says so. Problem is: Wrobel wears too many hats in the ZOS office and he doesnt have time to dedicate solely to PvP balances. Therefore, nothing is getting done.

so which one is it ZOS? is the speculation ridiculous? this is what happens when you keep silent on this important topics. we speculate. generally negatively.

But you forget one crucial thing. The PvPer is nowhere near ZOSes targeted audience.

-RPers

-Questers

-Causal PvEers

Hardcore PvEers

and at the bottom of the barrel you guest it.... PvPers.

It's not just ZOS it's nearly every successful MMORPG on the market.

PvPers are the targeted audience in MOBAs, Competitive Shooters, and Survival games. They focus a big portion of their pie on PvPers if not the whole pie. MMORPGs are the polar opposite.

It's really simple as that.

Ectheliontnacil · June 2017

@FearlessOne_2014

In Zenis defense you have to say that they released 2 dlc that contained pvp content (Battlegrounds and IC) ...that's something and they do actively work on pvp performance and stuff

its not like they don't care at all.

thankyourat · June 2017

Czirne wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Czirne wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

If everything you are doing is spamming damage skills without trying to do some burst combos then yes, you won't kill anything without proc sets.

I will quote myself to be more clear for you.

Czirne wrote: »

No matter what you do, how perfect you time your burst and animation cancel everything you can, you wont get a kill without them making a HUGE mistake

And I will tell you that this is not true.

Well ok, tell what i did wrong:
Playing as stamplar, i see sorc, I put power of the light on him, stampede, jabs, heavy atack, jabs light atack - I save my cc about 2-1 sec before power of the light goes off. When its that time, I cc(dizz or javeling, does not matter i was testing both) followed by stampede +LA+ crescent sweep, ussualy power of the light deal damage right after crescent sweep, immidiately follow by la+execute+bash. Most sorcs just ccbreak after this burst, reaply all shields and streak away.

You aren't doing anything wrong. You can't expect to kill people after one combo though. just as hard as you fight to kill someone they are fighting just as hard to stay alive. Some players you just have to keep applying pressure to until they run out of resources or make a mistake. If a player doesnt make a mistake he shouldn't die. Thats what make proc sets so terrible alot of the time the burst is so high that there is little counterplay

FearlessOne_2014 · June 2017

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

@FearlessOne_2014

In Zenis defense you have to say that they released 2 dlc that contained pvp content (Battlegrounds and IC) ...that's something and they do actively work on pvp performance and stuff its not like they don't care at all.

@Ectheliontnacil

I didn't say that ZOS didn't care at all for PvP. I was just explaining the difference between targeted audiences of ZOS and the MMORPG genre these days. And compared them to that of a PvP genre.

Can you seriously tell me that PvP gets any bit of attention in ESO. As those other categories I've mention. Now compare the attention PvP gets in ESO and other MMORPGs compared to the genres I've mention.

After doing that, can you actually say I'm wrong?

PvP quality in ESO compared to those other genres I've mention. Makes ESO's PvP nothing more then a wonky attempt to cash grab and forget, in a PvE dominated game and genre. I am talking about comparisons by the way.

I could go on about this subject for days. However there is no need for me to here. As I'm pretty sure anyone who has played any game of those genres I've mention. Would not only understand, but will completely agree with me. There is like very very minimal PvP support here, compared to those games.

Also I'd go as far and say Morrowind after the lack of PvP attention, being BGs was a major selling point. That ZOS used some pretty underhanded and predatory marketing practices to sell it.(Which is very legal in this day and age, so no complaints from me here.) Marketing BGs as one of the major selling point then abandon all attempts to make it a quality product. Is getting a little bit into the scum zone.But this last paragraph is just my own opinion on the matter.

That all being said I now have a very sour taste in my mouth. Just thinking about how much of a fool I was, to think they'd treat this form of Pvp different then they have Cyrodiil. I'm actually more so mad at myself then ZOS. (Have to tip the cap to them.) That's some pro marketing right there.

Czirne · June 2017

thankyourat wrote: »

Czirne wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Czirne wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

If everything you are doing is spamming damage skills without trying to do some burst combos then yes, you won't kill anything without proc sets.

I will quote myself to be more clear for you.

Czirne wrote: »

No matter what you do, how perfect you time your burst and animation cancel everything you can, you wont get a kill without them making a HUGE mistake

And I will tell you that this is not true.

Well ok, tell what i did wrong:
Playing as stamplar, i see sorc, I put power of the light on him, stampede, jabs, heavy atack, jabs light atack - I save my cc about 2-1 sec before power of the light goes off. When its that time, I cc(dizz or javeling, does not matter i was testing both) followed by stampede +LA+ crescent sweep, ussualy power of the light deal damage right after crescent sweep, immidiately follow by la+execute+bash. Most sorcs just ccbreak after this burst, reaply all shields and streak away.

You aren't doing anything wrong. You can't expect to kill people after one combo though. just as hard as you fight to kill someone they are fighting just as hard to stay alive. Some players you just have to keep applying pressure to until they run out of resources or make a mistake. If a player doesnt make a mistake he shouldn't die. Thats what make proc sets so terrible alot of the time the burst is so high that there is little counterplay

I see your point, you might be right in a way. But here's the thing:
Any stamina spec I do this burst on die if they wont block or dodge my cc right before PotL even without proc sets, just with bone pirate and spriggan and vma weapon(or lately spriggan weapon and malubeth helmet for more health). Every stam NB proc-wonder, stam dk, stamden - does not matter which class.
Even magicka Templars or magDK die if they does not have over 30k health, but problem with those builds are they blocking permanently, i have to preasurre them and hope they run out of resources (magicka dk rarely does, its more like after some time I run out of stamina and die).
Point is when I manage to execute flawless damage combo burst, while enemy is not blocking or dodging, he dies. Magicka sorc just stack shields on himself, throw occasional curse, frag and endelss fury on me and continue to stack shields. When i burst him, half of my burst is wasted on shields(which are uncritable, nice desing) and sorc lives and shieldstack again.

Hence viper. Viper can not crit, but whatever, shields are uncritable anyway. I basicly use viper because of people stacking shields. Now that I'm thinking about it, i probably switch to shieldbreaker

EDIT: Make no mistake, I am talking about experienced and skilled magicka sorcs who know how to play they class, those are the ones i have problem to kill, its not every sorc i meet.
And it applies to some light armor magblades and magplars who are stacking over 13 -15k shields in no cp enviroment same as sorcs.

Aedaryl · June 2017

There is 2 simple ways to fix proc sets :

The First way :

Make only one proc set usable by applying a non stackable buff with it. Exemple : Each proc set have a "Major ***" buff with it, and since major buff can't stack, 2 proc set can't stack.

The second way :

Descrease proc set damage by 35% and make them affected by CP.

=> there is a 15%(elemental or physical, poison, ect damage) and 25% (direct or dot damage) cps for every damage in this game, reducing the damage of proc set by 35% will make them more or less equal to the actual damage in CPs areas (PvE, Duel, and PvP campaign) But in non cps, the damage will be , nerf by 35%, more or less like all other damages

Ectheliontnacil · June 2017

@Aedaryl

I think I know you in game

HoloYoitsu · June 2017

Czirne wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Czirne wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Czirne wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

If everything you are doing is spamming damage skills without trying to do some burst combos then yes, you won't kill anything without proc sets.

I will quote myself to be more clear for you.

Czirne wrote: »

No matter what you do, how perfect you time your burst and animation cancel everything you can, you wont get a kill without them making a HUGE mistake

And I will tell you that this is not true.

Well ok, tell what i did wrong:
Playing as stamplar, i see sorc, I put power of the light on him, stampede, jabs, heavy atack, jabs light atack - I save my cc about 2-1 sec before power of the light goes off. When its that time, I cc(dizz or javeling, does not matter i was testing both) followed by stampede +LA+ crescent sweep, ussualy power of the light deal damage right after crescent sweep, immidiately follow by la+execute+bash. Most sorcs just ccbreak after this burst, reaply all shields and streak away.

You aren't doing anything wrong. You can't expect to kill people after one combo though. just as hard as you fight to kill someone they are fighting just as hard to stay alive. Some players you just have to keep applying pressure to until they run out of resources or make a mistake. If a player doesnt make a mistake he shouldn't die. Thats what make proc sets so terrible alot of the time the burst is so high that there is little counterplay

I see your point, you might be right in a way. But here's the thing:
Any stamina spec I do this burst on die if they wont block or dodge my cc right before PotL even without proc sets, just with bone pirate and spriggan and vma weapon(or lately spriggan weapon and malubeth helmet for more health). Every stam NB proc-wonder, stam dk, stamden - does not matter which class.
Even magicka Templars or magDK die if they does not have over 30k health, but problem with those builds are they blocking permanently, i have to preasurre them and hope they run out of resources (magicka dk rarely does, its more like after some time I run out of stamina and die).
Point is when I manage to execute flawless damage combo burst, while enemy is not blocking or dodging, he dies. Magicka sorc just stack shields on himself, throw occasional curse, frag and endelss fury on me and continue to stack shields. When i burst him, half of my burst is wasted on shields(which are uncritable, nice desing) and sorc lives and shieldstack again.

Hence viper. Viper can not crit, but whatever, shields are uncritable anyway. I basicly use viper because of people stacking shields. Now that I'm thinking about it, i probably switch to shieldbreaker

EDIT: Make no mistake, I am talking about experienced and skilled magicka sorcs who know how to play they class, those are the ones i have problem to kill, its not every sorc i meet.
And it applies to some light armor magblades and magplars who are stacking over 13 -15k shields in no cp enviroment same as sorcs.

So you're complaining that you can't kill "experienced and skilled" players "without them making a HUGE mistake"?
obi-wan-at-the-bar-you-want-to-go-home-and-rethink-your-life.jpg

obi-wan-at-the-bar-you-want-to-go-home-and-rethink-your-life.jpg

To start with, the fact that you seem to expect you should win against different specs by playing the same way against each is deeply flawed. That's just entitlement. Every playstyle should have counters.

The mag DKs you're complaining about permablocking cannot actually permablock. The only ones that do are complete zero dmg tank builds that can't do anything to you. The standard Seducer/Suns DK is simply out sustaining you because they are built to sustain. You have the tools to counter this, it's called mag/ult cost increase poisons.
Of course you have trouble one shot bursting a sorc through two shields, that's the whole point of the class. Against sorc you hold your burst until they commit to an offensive combo, then you burst as their shields will be running out. The other option is you drain their stam pool with constant CC pressure. Or you build to counter that playstyle: dot stacking is the counter to shields.

Since you're a stamplar, I can likewise say that stamplars are bar none, the hardest class for a mag sorc to kill. You can purify curse, run S/B w/ defensive stance and hard counter my frags. What am I left with then? Crushing shock spam that would get out healed by vigor?