Proc sets need to go!!!

Strider_Roshin

They need to not work on players. I'm not dying from them, and I don't think they're as OP as Magsorcs are currently, but at least the magsorc has to spend magicka to dish out an insane amount of damage. These proc sets can make a wall licker successful in PvP.

Ectheliontnacil

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

They need to not work on players. I'm not dying from them, and I don't think they're as OP as Magsorcs are currently, but at least the magsorc has to spend magicka to dish out an insane amount of damage. These proc sets can make a wall licker successful in PvP.

Precisely, you can literally light attack and selens+viper+widowmaker will do the rest XD...

dpencil1

Considering that ZOS just endorsed a Tremorscale/Viper build as the first in their revived Battlemaster's Corner series, I think the plea that these sets would be drastically changed will continue falling on deaf ears.

It's doubly funny since they said in patch notes that Tremorscale was intended to be a tanking set, yet are promoting the same stam dps build that lead them to give Tremorscale a nerf tap several months ago.

Ectheliontnacil

@dpencil1

Hahahah really they endorsed that build! XD that's a new low for Zeni

dpencil1

@Ectheliontnacil
Yep. Check it out.
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2017/06/14/battlemasters-corner--the-zookeeper

Ectheliontnacil

@dpencil1
Hilarious, thanks for the link man!

Czirne

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Czirne wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Czirne wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Czirne wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

If everything you are doing is spamming damage skills without trying to do some burst combos then yes, you won't kill anything without proc sets.

I will quote myself to be more clear for you.

Czirne wrote: »

No matter what you do, how perfect you time your burst and animation cancel everything you can, you wont get a kill without them making a HUGE mistake

And I will tell you that this is not true.

Well ok, tell what i did wrong:
Playing as stamplar, i see sorc, I put power of the light on him, stampede, jabs, heavy atack, jabs light atack - I save my cc about 2-1 sec before power of the light goes off. When its that time, I cc(dizz or javeling, does not matter i was testing both) followed by stampede +LA+ crescent sweep, ussualy power of the light deal damage right after crescent sweep, immidiately follow by la+execute+bash. Most sorcs just ccbreak after this burst, reaply all shields and streak away.

You aren't doing anything wrong. You can't expect to kill people after one combo though. just as hard as you fight to kill someone they are fighting just as hard to stay alive. Some players you just have to keep applying pressure to until they run out of resources or make a mistake. If a player doesnt make a mistake he shouldn't die. Thats what make proc sets so terrible alot of the time the burst is so high that there is little counterplay

I see your point, you might be right in a way. But here's the thing:
Any stamina spec I do this burst on die if they wont block or dodge my cc right before PotL even without proc sets, just with bone pirate and spriggan and vma weapon(or lately spriggan weapon and malubeth helmet for more health). Every stam NB proc-wonder, stam dk, stamden - does not matter which class.
Even magicka Templars or magDK die if they does not have over 30k health, but problem with those builds are they blocking permanently, i have to preasurre them and hope they run out of resources (magicka dk rarely does, its more like after some time I run out of stamina and die).
Point is when I manage to execute flawless damage combo burst, while enemy is not blocking or dodging, he dies. Magicka sorc just stack shields on himself, throw occasional curse, frag and endelss fury on me and continue to stack shields. When i burst him, half of my burst is wasted on shields(which are uncritable, nice desing) and sorc lives and shieldstack again.

Hence viper. Viper can not crit, but whatever, shields are uncritable anyway. I basicly use viper because of people stacking shields. Now that I'm thinking about it, i probably switch to shieldbreaker

EDIT: Make no mistake, I am talking about experienced and skilled magicka sorcs who know how to play they class, those are the ones i have problem to kill, its not every sorc i meet.
And it applies to some light armor magblades and magplars who are stacking over 13 -15k shields in no cp enviroment same as sorcs.

So you're complaining that you can't kill "experienced and skilled" players "without them making a HUGE mistake"?

To start with, the fact that you seem to expect you should win against different specs by playing the same way against each is deeply flawed. That's just entitlement. Every playstyle should have counters.

• The mag DKs you're complaining about permablocking cannot actually permablock. The only ones that do are complete zero dmg tank builds that can't do anything to you. The standard Seducer/Suns DK is simply out sustaining you because they are built to sustain. You have the tools to counter this, it's called mag/ult cost increase poisons.
• Of course you have trouble one shot bursting a sorc through two shields, that's the whole point of the class. Against sorc you hold your burst until they commit to an offensive combo, then you burst as their shields will be running out. The other option is you drain their stam pool with constant CC pressure. Or you build to counter that playstyle: dot stacking is the counter to shields.

Since you're a stamplar, I can likewise say that stamplars are bar none, the hardest class for a mag sorc to kill. You can purify curse, run S/B w/ defensive stance and hard counter my frags. What am I left with then? Crushing shock spam that would get out healed by vigor?

Point taken.
I am probably only angry at magicka sorcs because i cant burst them down even when i manage to do flawless combo. They are probably angry at me because of cleanse.

My point is there are some builds ot there that are so strong you have to use viper to even the odds, and nerfing proc sets, while it might be healthy for a game, would create new problems and cause new, possibly even bigger inbalance. That is my opinion, I am not forcing it to anyone, its only what i believe.

TheDoomsdayMonster

As a Hard Core Magicka Templar that wears 5 Light, 1 Medium, and 1 Heavy in Cyrodiil and Battlegrounds, I will say that I am fine with Proc Sets as is...

No matter what Proc set combo you throw at me, I will be fine and can withstand your worse...

The major problem from my point of view are RESOURCE POISONS; there is no counter for these as you cant stop it from happening (being Poisoned that is) and you cant cleanse it....

But pure damage from burst/proc sets? Bring it on...I can take it as I can build with as much defense as needed to withstand tremendous punishment.

Resource Poisons, however, I cant counter and I have no defense against these...

Poisons are what need to be nerfed...not Proc Sets.

Aedaryl

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

@Aedaryl

I think I know you in game

Really ? It was ironic ? I said something stupid ?

Araviel2

easy solution that won't nerf proc sets for pve - make them reflectable

that way proctards can still burst down sorcs that they hate so much, but they will have to apply skills and watch themselves around templars and DK's and can't just run around like mindless berserkers on the battleground.

would also give templars and Dk's a slight buff that they could need.

Wanderer202

Sandman929 wrote: »

I still don't understand the "don't nerf PvE for PvP" attitude. Every single aspect of PvE is scripted and can be changed as needed. If some massive change happened for the sake of PvP balance, couldn't they just tweak the robot enemies to accommodate?

Perhaps the sentiment is true but that has literally never happened.

Witar

Procblades almost always get more kills in deathmatch then magsorcs do even with execute spam. Don't really know why people still complain about sorcs. They are extremely easy to counter with shieldbreaker and oblivion enchant on stamina and knightslayer and oblivion enchant on magicka.

Qbiken

Witar wrote: »

Procblades almost always get more kills in deathmatch then magsorcs do even with execute spam. Don't really know why people still complain about sorcs. They are extremely easy to counter with shieldbreaker and oblivion enchant on stamina and knightslayer and oblivion enchant on magicka.

I´m almost at a Point where I embrace a magsorc, comparing to facing a stamsorc or stamblade using procsets

leepalmer95

Araviel2 wrote: »

easy solution that won't nerf proc sets for pve - make them reflectable

that way proctards can still burst down sorcs that they hate so much, but they will have to apply skills and watch themselves around templars and DK's and can't just run around like mindless berserkers on the battleground.

would also give templars and Dk's a slight buff that they could need.

How tf can you reflect viper?

Joy_Division

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Araviel2 wrote: »

easy solution that won't nerf proc sets for pve - make them reflectable

that way proctards can still burst down sorcs that they hate so much, but they will have to apply skills and watch themselves around templars and DK's and can't just run around like mindless berserkers on the battleground.

would also give templars and Dk's a slight buff that they could need.

How tf can you reflect viper?

Dunno but it would be awfully funny if it could be

casparian

Joy_Division wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Araviel2 wrote: »

easy solution that won't nerf proc sets for pve - make them reflectable

that way proctards can still burst down sorcs that they hate so much, but they will have to apply skills and watch themselves around templars and DK's and can't just run around like mindless berserkers on the battleground.

would also give templars and Dk's a slight buff that they could need.

How tf can you reflect viper?

Dunno but it would be awfully funny if it could be

The amount of salt produced by stamblades and stamsorcs who didn't read the patch notes after that change went live would be enough to fill the oceans.

Araviel2

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Araviel2 wrote: »

easy solution that won't nerf proc sets for pve - make them reflectable

that way proctards can still burst down sorcs that they hate so much, but they will have to apply skills and watch themselves around templars and DK's and can't just run around like mindless berserkers on the battleground.

would also give templars and Dk's a slight buff that they could need.

How tf can you reflect viper?

Dk flaps their wings - all proc damage goes back to the sender for 4s, do the same with eclipse and defensive stance and what else.
i think its one of the best and most hilarious ideas I've had in a long time

Durham

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Czirne wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Czirne wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Czirne wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

If everything you are doing is spamming damage skills without trying to do some burst combos then yes, you won't kill anything without proc sets.

I will quote myself to be more clear for you.

Czirne wrote: »

No matter what you do, how perfect you time your burst and animation cancel everything you can, you wont get a kill without them making a HUGE mistake

And I will tell you that this is not true.

Well ok, tell what i did wrong:
Playing as stamplar, i see sorc, I put power of the light on him, stampede, jabs, heavy atack, jabs light atack - I save my cc about 2-1 sec before power of the light goes off. When its that time, I cc(dizz or javeling, does not matter i was testing both) followed by stampede +LA+ crescent sweep, ussualy power of the light deal damage right after crescent sweep, immidiately follow by la+execute+bash. Most sorcs just ccbreak after this burst, reaply all shields and streak away.

You aren't doing anything wrong. You can't expect to kill people after one combo though. just as hard as you fight to kill someone they are fighting just as hard to stay alive. Some players you just have to keep applying pressure to until they run out of resources or make a mistake. If a player doesnt make a mistake he shouldn't die. Thats what make proc sets so terrible alot of the time the burst is so high that there is little counterplay

I see your point, you might be right in a way. But here's the thing:
Any stamina spec I do this burst on die if they wont block or dodge my cc right before PotL even without proc sets, just with bone pirate and spriggan and vma weapon(or lately spriggan weapon and malubeth helmet for more health). Every stam NB proc-wonder, stam dk, stamden - does not matter which class.
Even magicka Templars or magDK die if they does not have over 30k health, but problem with those builds are they blocking permanently, i have to preasurre them and hope they run out of resources (magicka dk rarely does, its more like after some time I run out of stamina and die).
Point is when I manage to execute flawless damage combo burst, while enemy is not blocking or dodging, he dies. Magicka sorc just stack shields on himself, throw occasional curse, frag and endelss fury on me and continue to stack shields. When i burst him, half of my burst is wasted on shields(which are uncritable, nice desing) and sorc lives and shieldstack again.

Hence viper. Viper can not crit, but whatever, shields are uncritable anyway. I basicly use viper because of people stacking shields. Now that I'm thinking about it, i probably switch to shieldbreaker

EDIT: Make no mistake, I am talking about experienced and skilled magicka sorcs who know how to play they class, those are the ones i have problem to kill, its not every sorc i meet.
And it applies to some light armor magblades and magplars who are stacking over 13 -15k shields in no cp enviroment same as sorcs.

So you're complaining that you can't kill "experienced and skilled" players "without them making a HUGE mistake"?

To start with, the fact that you seem to expect you should win against different specs by playing the same way against each is deeply flawed. That's just entitlement. Every playstyle should have counters.

• The mag DKs you're complaining about permablocking cannot actually permablock. The only ones that do are complete zero dmg tank builds that can't do anything to you. The standard Seducer/Suns DK is simply out sustaining you because they are built to sustain. You have the tools to counter this, it's called mag/ult cost increase poisons.
• Of course you have trouble one shot bursting a sorc through two shields, that's the whole point of the class. Against sorc you hold your burst until they commit to an offensive combo, then you burst as their shields will be running out. The other option is you drain their stam pool with constant CC pressure. Or you build to counter that playstyle: dot stacking is the counter to shields.

Since you're a stamplar, I can likewise say that stamplars are bar none, the hardest class for a mag sorc to kill. You can purify curse, run S/B w/ defensive stance and hard counter my frags. What am I left with then? Crushing shock spam that would get out healed by vigor?

There is nothing more powerful on the field then a few mastered Sorc.... Extreamily high damage, Highest Mobility, High defense .... Weakness is arthitis from hitting shields every 5 secs ... Honestly this class is my most hated class to face in PVP...

NBrookus

Araviel2 wrote: »

easy solution that won't nerf proc sets for pve - make them reflectable

that way proctards can still burst down sorcs that they hate so much, but they will have to apply skills and watch themselves around templars and DK's and can't just run around like mindless berserkers on the battleground.

would also give templars and Dk's a slight buff that they could need.

If the NPC Eclipse reflected procs, stam users would finally feel the pain of taking resources.

As funny as this would be, wings are way too expensive to keep up 100% to reflect invisible procs like viper, and magplars can't afford the stam of the S&B reflect nonstop either. I suppose you could go with a stacked regen build and get all your damage from reflects.

Xvorg

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Add this line to all proc sets that need it:

Enemy players take 50% less damage.

Fixed

It's called "Battle Spirit"

GeorgeBlack

Or we could remove some ridiculous proc sets.

Xvorg

dpencil1 wrote: »

@Ectheliontnacil
Yep. Check it out.
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2017/06/14/battlemasters-corner--the-zookeeper

Xvorg

Araviel2 wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Araviel2 wrote: »

easy solution that won't nerf proc sets for pve - make them reflectable

that way proctards can still burst down sorcs that they hate so much, but they will have to apply skills and watch themselves around templars and DK's and can't just run around like mindless berserkers on the battleground.

would also give templars and Dk's a slight buff that they could need.

How tf can you reflect viper?

Dk flaps their wings - all proc damage goes back to the sender for 4s, do the same with eclipse and defensive stance and what else.
i think its one of the best and most hilarious ideas I've had in a long time

I would pay for that xD

Kravz

As a mag sorc, all i know is im tired of procs...

Solo i feel weak and there is no group vs group in cyrodil.

People looking for groups usually end on a boring raid. Make some reason to run small as 4,6,8 maybe ???

im just zerg surfing these days mostly

Ectheliontnacil

@Kravz

Hahaha yes, sometimes zerging seems like the only option...solo you just get obliterated by 3 proctards spamming viper on you

Gilvoth

please remove proc sets from eso, they do too much damage. makes pvp unbalanced.

ChunkyCat

As a stam warden I run viper, tremorscale, and durok's bane all on main bar. Also have Flawless Dawnbreaker on main bar with the warden healing ultimate on back bar.

It's pretty 'effing OP.

You should try it.

Ectheliontnacil

People are even using shadow of the red mountain on mana sorcs... you know something is messed up when magicka players use stam sets cuz theyre so op XD

Kravz

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

People are even using shadow of the red mountain on mana sorcs... you know something is messed up when magicka players use stam sets cuz theyre so op XD

gonna try that !!

Czirne

dpencil1 wrote: »

@Ectheliontnacil
Yep. Check it out.
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2017/06/14/battlemasters-corner--the-zookeeper

I just died inside...