A discussion about Re-sale

zyk · June 2017

I think it's mostly ignorance. The zone chat price police don't realize that resellers provide a service that involves risk. They do not understand the costs of selling through a trader, especially in a high profile trading guild.

Resellers allow for players who prefer activities such as adventuring and harvesting to focus on what they enjoy without the hassle of selling -- which can be a pain as prices are in a constant state of flux. I am certain the vast majority of those who sell to resellers understand this.

Sometimes reselling backfires. For example, the Anniversary event decimated the value of many rare style motifs. ZOS may also change drop rates or introduce new items that render previously valuable items worthless. There are countless other factors.

Unless there's deceit involved, there is absolutely nothing wrong for advertising to buy an item for any price.

code65536 · June 2017

What is OP is doing is predatory. No, it's not a scam--a scam would be if he doesn't pay what he promises to pay. But it's ethically questionable, because--although he won't admit it in this asinine I-am-the-victim-here-please-pity-me thread of his--what he does works only because there are people who don't realize that they are selling things at a fraction of what they're worth. He's taking advantage of newbies and other ignorant players.

But it's not a scam. It's not against the rules. So whatever. But it seems strange that the OP would then make a thread complaining about how people show disrespect to him in zone chat for doing something that deserves no respect and that shows his own disrespect for newbies.

So here's the deal: You have every right to engage in predatory practices. People in zone have every right to call you out for engaging in predatory practices. Freedom is great, ain't it?

hmsdragonfly · June 2017

max_only wrote: »

@mesmerizedish

On the first page, 23rd post

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4179889/#Comment_4179889

He states that he does not say "60%" he puts up a specific figure that IS 60%.

Almar wrote: »

strikeback1247 wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Almar wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Almar wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

@Almar they are just jealous that they are not smart enough to play the market. Playing the market is a component of this game. Just ignore them.

I have ran into a couple of people like that myself, they are unworthy of our attention.

A guild leader in one of my guilds even threatened to kick me out over not paying MM for everything!

Wait, I may not fully understand your situation here. Can you tell me what exactly you are doing? Can you give me a detailed example of what you are doing?

I go into zones, i advertize that im buying reagents in bulk at 60% of MM value. I am met with Insults, threats, profanity, and claims that im a scammer etc . .

Why on Earth are you telling people in zonechat that you are looking to buy things at 60% of MM value?

This is bad marketting, it's the main reason why you get insults, not because you resell stuffs, but because the advertisement you make is poorly presented.

Instead, if you say, for example, "WTB Corn Flower 280g ea" (while it is 300g according to MM), you are not going to get any backlash. People who think the price is too low will simply not sell them to you. Fair and square.

I'm pretty sure he's not saying "WTB reagents at 60% MM price"

He's just saying he wants to buy reagents at a certain price (like you said) and then people start spamming the actual mm values in chat and calling him a scammer.

Im naming specific values and offering 10% bonus for bulk. I make good money at this im just wodering why people find buying low and selling high so offensive.

Emphasis in bold.

He only said he named specific values when people started asking "why 60%?", the way he put it before that, it really sounded like he actually said "WTB ingredients at 60% MM", so we might not know the full story here.

Almar wrote: »

CromulentForumID wrote: »

Almar wrote: »

CromulentForumID wrote: »

Almar wrote: »

CromulentForumID wrote: »

Runs wrote: »

White Knights feel like you are taking advantage of uninformed players. Even new players know when someone is offering to buy bulk, that they are reselling or making gold off the items via crafting. It isn't rocket science. But these people think so highly of themselves and so little of other people that they feel the need to tell everyone the obvious.

I am not so sure that it is obvious, at least on consoles. The price people pay for something will be drastically different, depending on the zone they buy it in. I sell the exact same thing in Mournhold at 5 times the price, at least, than I do in my guilds with a trader in another location.

It's very possible that players can get fooled into thinking they are getting a decent price.
1. The player doesn't really shop at traders, so they aren't aware of any pricing
2. The player doesn't look at the prices in the main hubs, so they only see the remote trader pricing
3. The player is not in a guild for whatever reason, so they see no guild chat about pricing

I'm not going to weigh in on the value of people calling out bad pricing, but I think it's a stretch to say that everyone knows what "the price" is.

There may not be a better indicator in the English language that the speaker will be wrong when you hear: "Everybody knows that..."

So under your logic all items MUST be bought at the going rate and profit is not allowed?

When you go to a guild trader you only buy items in white right? Because if you buy anything that is listed in MM Blue or green that means you’re scamming someone out of the REAL value.

Hmmmm.

Number 1: What is this blue and white? I specified console.

Number 2: What logic? I took issue with the poster I quoted thinking that the pricing is obvious to players. It is possible that players are ignorant of "the going price," especially on consoles.

I even specifically mentioned I wouldn't comment on the value of people speaking up against the buyer. I didn't comment at all on the people who are buying "on the cheap." That includes you.

More reading, less outrage.

Guess i misunderstood you? and you are totally supporting my position?

I am not supporting or condemning what you are doing, especially since you are on PC and players have some market tools available via add-on.

I will say you seem awfully eager to get validation.

Im Simply trying to understand why people find it so offensive that they stalk me and harass me over it. As well as the lesser annoyance of calling me a scammer and a cheat etc . . .

Well, what you are doing isn't wrong, but the question is, how much money do you make an hour with your approach? I feel like with your marketing strategy and your business strategy, you aren't making much while taking too much backlash, maybe take a look at what you are doing and adjust accordingly to get more profits?

zyk · June 2017

code65536 wrote: »

What is OP is doing is predatory. No, it's not a scam--a scam would be if he doesn't pay what he promises to pay. But it's ethically questionable, because--although he won't admit it in this asinine I-am-the-victim-here-please-pity-me thread of his--what he does works only because there are people who don't realize that they are selling things at a fraction of what they're worth. He's taking advantage of newbies and other ignorant players.

It's not predatory at all. A predatory example of reselling would be for a very wealthy player to pay above market value for a commodity in an effort to corner a market.

You are being extremely judgmental towards those who sell to resellers. In my experience, most are fully aware that they are not receiving top price. I think many have gone that route before and find it to be tedious. There are a variety of reasons why a player may not want to be in a trade guild. Selling via zone chat is probably not enjoyable to most people.

Reselling is a service. Resellers provide fast and easy transactions. The good ones are also friendly and professional. To many, it is a service worth paying for.

Khenarthi · June 2017

zyk wrote: »

In my experience, most are fully aware that they are not receiving top price. I think many have gone that route before and find it to be tedious. There are a variety of reasons why a player may not want to be in a trade guild. Selling via zone chat is probably not enjoyable to most people.

If his target audience are newbies in a starter zone, it looks predatory to me too, since new players are typically saving up for their first mount/gear set/etc and generally unaware of how much money they can get for something. For a new, uninformed player, selling a Nirnroot for 100 gold, or a Kuta for 1k, or a Tempering Alloy for 4k will look like a good trade.

If people on zone chat point out how much the newbies can get for those things, new players can make an informed decision to sell to the OP, or sell elsewhere. Or keep for later (I never sell my alloys, and only sell Kuta if I have more than a stack).

While I do not agree with insults or name-calling, I would join the zone chat people helping new players realise the value of their loot. If I see this kind of thing in Reapers March, Craglorn, or another higher level zone I'd assume the players there have more of an inkling to the value or their stuff (and I usually turn chat off in those areas anyway).

Trying to buy things from newbies at a real low price to turn a profit is not forbidden, and does not constitute a scam, I just find it morally wrong. Different people have different morals though.

I will often sell stuff on guild traders at MM blue or purple price ranges just to make a quick sale, but I've been playing for over 3 years and don't really need gold anymore. The new players' experience is vastly different.

Rinmaethodain · June 2017

Im curious how it would end if OP would describe two situations/reactions.

He already described what happens when he openly admits that hey buys for 60% MM - people call him a monster.

Now what if he would just post plain prices which would be 60% of MM but no mention of it at all.

What im seeing here is (i believe) that people are more triggered by the number itself rather than the actual price at which OP buys stuff.

Almar · June 2017

Khenarthi wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

In my experience, most are fully aware that they are not receiving top price. I think many have gone that route before and find it to be tedious. There are a variety of reasons why a player may not want to be in a trade guild. Selling via zone chat is probably not enjoyable to most people.

If his target audience are newbies in a starter zone, it looks predatory to me too, since new players are typically saving up for their first mount/gear set/etc and generally unaware of how much money they can get for something. For a new, uninformed player, selling a Nirnroot for 100 gold, or a Kuta for 1k, or a Tempering Alloy for 4k will look like a good trade.

If people on zone chat point out how much the newbies can get for those things, new players can make an informed decision to sell to the OP, or sell elsewhere. Or keep for later (I never sell my alloys, and only sell Kuta if I have more than a stack).

While I do not agree with insults or name-calling, I would join the zone chat people helping new players realise the value of their loot. If I see this kind of thing in Reapers March, Craglorn, or another higher level zone I'd assume the players there have more of an inkling to the value or their stuff (and I usually turn chat off in those areas anyway).

Trying to buy things from newbies at a real low price to turn a profit is not forbidden, and does not constitute a scam, I just find it morally wrong. Different people have different morals though.

I will often sell stuff on guild traders at MM blue or purple price ranges just to make a quick sale, but I've been playing for over 3 years and don't really need gold anymore. The new players' experience is vastly different.

I advertise in EVERY zone. I do not target any group specifically. I have no problem with people saying what things are worth. However, I must ask:does wal-mart list what they paid the Chinese factories for their stock, next to the price we pay? The bottom line is that I just don't like people assuming I'm trying to cheat or scam anyone. I'm buying low and selling high like all good businesses do.

Almar · June 2017

code65536 wrote: »

What is OP is doing is predatory. No, it's not a scam--a scam would be if he doesn't pay what he promises to pay. But it's ethically questionable, because--although he won't admit it in this asinine I-am-the-victim-here-please-pity-me thread of his--what he does works only because there are people who don't realize that they are selling things at a fraction of what they're worth. He's taking advantage of newbies and other ignorant players.

But it's not a scam. It's not against the rules. So whatever. But it seems strange that the OP would then make a thread complaining about how people show disrespect to him in zone chat for doing something that deserves no respect and that shows his own disrespect for newbies.

So here's the deal: You have every right to engage in predatory practices. People in zone have every right to call you out for engaging in predatory practices. Freedom is great, ain't it?

I am not predatory, nor do I depend on people who "do not realize what they are selling" most of my purchases are from vets that sell in bulk. I simply state a price I'm willing to pay . . then pay it.

Almar · June 2017

Kneighbors wrote: »

Almar wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Almar wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

@Almar they are just jealous that they are not smart enough to play the market. Playing the market is a component of this game. Just ignore them.

I have ran into a couple of people like that myself, they are unworthy of our attention.

A guild leader in one of my guilds even threatened to kick me out over not paying MM for everything!

Wait, I may not fully understand your situation here. Can you tell me what exactly you are doing? Can you give me a detailed example of what you are doing?

I go into zones, i advertize that im buying reagents in bulk at 60% of MM value. I am met with Insults, threats, profanity, and claims that im a scammer etc . .

LOL.

1) You are spamming the chat with your monkey business. Imagine tomorrow everyone will start spamming this kind of messages over global chat. We will have to simply mute it. But you do feel special huh?

2) You are the buyer here and seller in your drug store. Imagine tomorrow a guy coming and starting to ask if you can sell him for 60% some of your store items. This is you, this is what you are doing. You are trying to buy for less then normal price. You are disappointing people who understand that and you get proper feedback for that.

I'm a buyer in my drug store also where do you think the stock comes from . . .the drugstore fairy? I have to buy it at a lower rate then resell it.

Almar · June 2017

max_only wrote: »

Saucy_Jack wrote: »

b) I have never seen in real life anyone go into a store in say, a mall, see a price they didn't like, and promptly stand outside the mall door yelling at random mall patrons "THIS STORE'S A TOTAL RIPOFF THEY'RE SELLING STUFF FOR WAY MORE THAN IT'S WORTH!!!!" They may THINK the store's a ripoff, but I've never seen anyone yell at mall patrons, let alone yell at them with the zeal I see from people in zone chat. So why anyone displays this sort of behaviour in zone when it would be COMPLETELY ridiculous if done in the real world is beyond me. Yes, it's the internet, but I mean, come on. Ridiculous. (Note: if you are a person who has, in real life, displayed the mall behaviour I've just outlined, then you're a hopeless ***; please recalibrate your lifestyle.)

.

Off topic but,
I've worked retail for more years than I care to admit. This absolutely does happen.

You and OP are free to post your prices. Others are free to post thier prices. We can't control how some may feel that this a predatory business practice.

Name calling and trying to slander or impugne someone's character (for perceived gouging) is the unacceptable part.

I don't call people scammers for buying under market. Also I appreciate it when the going rate is posted as well. Both can be true. Nothing wrong with an informed populace.

My involvement in this thread is from op trying to garner validation and approval, an effort to have less "guilt", if others agree. Op also seems to want people to stop posting the rates. He can't control people posting rates, just as we can't control people selling to him.

Not looking for validation OR approval, just looking for opinions on why people are so offended by the act of buying low and reselling at normal MM rates.

Almar · June 2017

Saucy_Jack wrote: »

I have this same problem from time to time. I'm in five high-tier trading guilds in high-traffic locations; as a result my MM prices tend to be higher than people whose two-bit traders are in Nowheresville.

Often I'll post in zone something along the lines of "WTS [item 1] for [x amount], [item 2] for [y amount], [item 3] for [z amount]; PST if interested." The stuff I sell is generally high-tier and/or rarer-to-acquire items, and generally my prices are 5-10k BELOW my own MM prices.

And there always seems to be the two or three people who immediately respond with "THAT'S A RIPOFF MY MM SAYS [such and such amount with 2 sales in the last 20 days that's waaaay below the MM in my much-higher-traffic traders]!!!"

I personally find this behaviour perplexing for three reasons:

a) If someone wants to buy at my price, they will buy at my price, and if someone doesn't want to buy at my price, they won't. I'm not forcing anyone to buy anything, so why these people feel compelled to yell out their own data like some sort of economic Tourette's syndrome, I don't know.

b) I have never seen in real life anyone go into a store in say, a mall, see a price they didn't like, and promptly stand outside the mall door yelling at random mall patrons "THIS STORE'S A TOTAL RIPOFF THEY'RE SELLING STUFF FOR WAY MORE THAN IT'S WORTH!!!!" They may THINK the store's a ripoff, but I've never seen anyone yell at mall patrons, let alone yell at them with the zeal I see from people in zone chat. So why anyone displays this sort of behaviour in zone when it would be COMPLETELY ridiculous if done in the real world is beyond me. Yes, it's the internet, but I mean, come on. Ridiculous. (Note: if you are a person who has, in real life, displayed the mall behaviour I've just outlined, then you're a hopeless ***; please recalibrate your lifestyle.)

c) Like stated before, if people want to pay my prices, they will; if they don't, they won't. Some of these economic paladins think they're doing the game a service by making sure "people don't get ripped off." But here's the thing: MM exists. TTC exists. There's like fifty bajillion pricing addons that anyone can get to help them navigate the economic waters in the game. (Yes, I know, consoles = no addons; I'm on NA PC so I'm only speaking from my game's paradigm.) By engaging in this behaviour, these guys are implicitly stating that 1) they're "protecting" everyone else, even though literally no one asked them to, and 2) they think that other players are incapable of making their own economic decisions, despite the above-mentioned numerous addons being available to everyone on the server. We're big boys and girls. Nobody needs to be babied.

To the OP: all in all I say keep doing what you're doing. You're not trying to scam people since you explicitly state your terms in your purchase pitch; if people don't want to sell to you for those prices, they won't. For the people yelling at you about your price points, they can take a long walk off a short pier. Into the slaughterfish.

You have eloquently summarized my feelings on this issue better than I have been able to articulate myself . .THANK you!

Almar · June 2017

Almar wrote: »

Saucy_Jack wrote: »

I have this same problem from time to time. I'm in five high-tier trading guilds in high-traffic locations; as a result my MM prices tend to be higher than people whose two-bit traders are in Nowheresville.

Often I'll post in zone something along the lines of "WTS [item 1] for [x amount], [item 2] for [y amount], [item 3] for [z amount]; PST if interested." The stuff I sell is generally high-tier and/or rarer-to-acquire items, and generally my prices are 5-10k BELOW my own MM prices.

And there always seems to be the two or three people who immediately respond with "THAT'S A RIPOFF MY MM SAYS [such and such amount with 2 sales in the last 20 days that's waaaay below the MM in my much-higher-traffic traders]!!!"

I personally find this behaviour perplexing for three reasons:

a) If someone wants to buy at my price, they will buy at my price, and if someone doesn't want to buy at my price, they won't. I'm not forcing anyone to buy anything, so why these people feel compelled to yell out their own data like some sort of economic Tourette's syndrome, I don't know.

b) I have never seen in real life anyone go into a store in say, a mall, see a price they didn't like, and promptly stand outside the mall door yelling at random mall patrons "THIS STORE'S A TOTAL RIPOFF THEY'RE SELLING STUFF FOR WAY MORE THAN IT'S WORTH!!!!" They may THINK the store's a ripoff, but I've never seen anyone yell at mall patrons, let alone yell at them with the zeal I see from people in zone chat. So why anyone displays this sort of behaviour in zone when it would be COMPLETELY ridiculous if done in the real world is beyond me. Yes, it's the internet, but I mean, come on. Ridiculous. (Note: if you are a person who has, in real life, displayed the mall behaviour I've just outlined, then you're a hopeless ***; please recalibrate your lifestyle.)

c) Like stated before, if people want to pay my prices, they will; if they don't, they won't. Some of these economic paladins think they're doing the game a service by making sure "people don't get ripped off." But here's the thing: MM exists. TTC exists. There's like fifty bajillion pricing addons that anyone can get to help them navigate the economic waters in the game. (Yes, I know, consoles = no addons; I'm on NA PC so I'm only speaking from my game's paradigm.) By engaging in this behaviour, these guys are implicitly stating that 1) they're "protecting" everyone else, even though literally no one asked them to, and 2) they think that other players are incapable of making their own economic decisions, despite the above-mentioned numerous addons being available to everyone on the server. We're big boys and girls. Nobody needs to be babied.

To the OP: all in all I say keep doing what you're doing. You're not trying to scam people since you explicitly state your terms in your purchase pitch; if people don't want to sell to you for those prices, they won't. For the people yelling at you about your price points, they can take a long walk off a short pier. Into the slaughterfish.

You have eloquently summarized my feelings on this issue better than I have been able to articulate myself . .THANK you!

I hope i have your permission to use some of your arguments in the game when trolls whisper me . .the mall analogy was brilliant!

Almar · June 2017

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Im curious how it would end if OP would describe two situations/reactions.

He already described what happens when he openly admits that hey buys for 60% MM - people call him a monster.

Now what if he would just post plain prices which would be 60% of MM but no mention of it at all.

What im seeing here is (i believe) that people are more triggered by the number itself rather than the actual price at which OP buys stuff.

I do actually name specific prices. For the sake of this discussion I mentioned they were 60% (now 65), but in the zone, I name each individual price.

Almar · June 2017

Almar wrote: »

Saucy_Jack wrote: »

I have this same problem from time to time. I'm in five high-tier trading guilds in high-traffic locations; as a result my MM prices tend to be higher than people whose two-bit traders are in Nowheresville.

Often I'll post in zone something along the lines of "WTS [item 1] for [x amount], [item 2] for [y amount], [item 3] for [z amount]; PST if interested." The stuff I sell is generally high-tier and/or rarer-to-acquire items, and generally my prices are 5-10k BELOW my own MM prices.

And there always seems to be the two or three people who immediately respond with "THAT'S A RIPOFF MY MM SAYS [such and such amount with 2 sales in the last 20 days that's waaaay below the MM in my much-higher-traffic traders]!!!"

I personally find this behaviour perplexing for three reasons:

a) If someone wants to buy at my price, they will buy at my price, and if someone doesn't want to buy at my price, they won't. I'm not forcing anyone to buy anything, so why these people feel compelled to yell out their own data like some sort of economic Tourette's syndrome, I don't know.

b) I have never seen in real life anyone go into a store in say, a mall, see a price they didn't like, and promptly stand outside the mall door yelling at random mall patrons "THIS STORE'S A TOTAL RIPOFF THEY'RE SELLING STUFF FOR WAY MORE THAN IT'S WORTH!!!!" They may THINK the store's a ripoff, but I've never seen anyone yell at mall patrons, let alone yell at them with the zeal I see from people in zone chat. So why anyone displays this sort of behaviour in zone when it would be COMPLETELY ridiculous if done in the real world is beyond me. Yes, it's the internet, but I mean, come on. Ridiculous. (Note: if you are a person who has, in real life, displayed the mall behaviour I've just outlined, then you're a hopeless ***; please recalibrate your lifestyle.)

c) Like stated before, if people want to pay my prices, they will; if they don't, they won't. Some of these economic paladins think they're doing the game a service by making sure "people don't get ripped off." But here's the thing: MM exists. TTC exists. There's like fifty bajillion pricing addons that anyone can get to help them navigate the economic waters in the game. (Yes, I know, consoles = no addons; I'm on NA PC so I'm only speaking from my game's paradigm.) By engaging in this behaviour, these guys are implicitly stating that 1) they're "protecting" everyone else, even though literally no one asked them to, and 2) they think that other players are incapable of making their own economic decisions, despite the above-mentioned numerous addons being available to everyone on the server. We're big boys and girls. Nobody needs to be babied.

To the OP: all in all I say keep doing what you're doing. You're not trying to scam people since you explicitly state your terms in your purchase pitch; if people don't want to sell to you for those prices, they won't. For the people yelling at you about your price points, they can take a long walk off a short pier. Into the slaughterfish.

You have eloquently summarized my feelings on this issue better than I have been able to articulate myself . .THANK you!

I adapted your mall rant to the following so it will fit into game chat: In RL do you go into a store in a mall, see a price you didn't like, and stand outside the mall door yelling at mall patrons "THIS STORE'S A RIPOFF THEY'RE SELLING STUFF FOR WAY MORE THAN THEY PAID FOR IT!" You may THINK the store's a rip-off, but do you yell at mall patrons? Let alone yell at them with the zeal I see from people in zone chat?

Almar · June 2017

We could add to this discussion that the MM prices that everyone worships sooo much are based on 1-5 guilds that an individual is a member of, and can vary greatly from person to person. I've seen divergences of as much as 40-60%

Cpt_Teemo · June 2017

I just stick to buying and reselling that's listed on the vendors I don't go out of my way to spam for cheap prices, imo that's a better way to resell without getting flamed on.

ParaNostram · June 2017

I say undercut to the point in which everything loses it's value. Dismantle the Capitalist system from within! BRING ABOUT THE GLORIOUS REVOLUTION IN TAMRIEL, COMRADE!

Blud · June 2017

Just ignore them. As long as you're not lying or otherwise deceiving anyone and the deal is consensual, I don't see anything wrong with it.

hmsdragonfly · June 2017

Almar wrote: »

Khenarthi wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

In my experience, most are fully aware that they are not receiving top price. I think many have gone that route before and find it to be tedious. There are a variety of reasons why a player may not want to be in a trade guild. Selling via zone chat is probably not enjoyable to most people.

If his target audience are newbies in a starter zone, it looks predatory to me too, since new players are typically saving up for their first mount/gear set/etc and generally unaware of how much money they can get for something. For a new, uninformed player, selling a Nirnroot for 100 gold, or a Kuta for 1k, or a Tempering Alloy for 4k will look like a good trade.

If people on zone chat point out how much the newbies can get for those things, new players can make an informed decision to sell to the OP, or sell elsewhere. Or keep for later (I never sell my alloys, and only sell Kuta if I have more than a stack).

While I do not agree with insults or name-calling, I would join the zone chat people helping new players realise the value of their loot. If I see this kind of thing in Reapers March, Craglorn, or another higher level zone I'd assume the players there have more of an inkling to the value or their stuff (and I usually turn chat off in those areas anyway).

Trying to buy things from newbies at a real low price to turn a profit is not forbidden, and does not constitute a scam, I just find it morally wrong. Different people have different morals though.

I will often sell stuff on guild traders at MM blue or purple price ranges just to make a quick sale, but I've been playing for over 3 years and don't really need gold anymore. The new players' experience is vastly different.

I advertise in EVERY zone. I do not target any group specifically. I have no problem with people saying what things are worth. However, I must ask:does wal-mart list what they paid the Chinese factories for their stock, next to the price we pay? The bottom line is that I just don't like people assuming I'm trying to cheat or scam anyone. I'm buying low and selling high like all good businesses do.

Walmart knows how to run a successful business. Your business practice has something to be desired, because it looks like you are not much successful with the way you handle your business.

Here are some tips: for things that sell well (raw mats, gold tempers, alchemy ingredients), buy anything that is 10% under MM. Not many people are unaware enough to sell you alchemy ingredients at 60% of MM, especially if your ads literally say "WTB ingredients at 60% MM". The flow of money is utmost important.

And no, what you are doing isn't wrong, it's just not really effective.

Almar · June 2017

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Almar wrote: »

Khenarthi wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

In my experience, most are fully aware that they are not receiving top price. I think many have gone that route before and find it to be tedious. There are a variety of reasons why a player may not want to be in a trade guild. Selling via zone chat is probably not enjoyable to most people.

If his target audience are newbies in a starter zone, it looks predatory to me too, since new players are typically saving up for their first mount/gear set/etc and generally unaware of how much money they can get for something. For a new, uninformed player, selling a Nirnroot for 100 gold, or a Kuta for 1k, or a Tempering Alloy for 4k will look like a good trade.

If people on zone chat point out how much the newbies can get for those things, new players can make an informed decision to sell to the OP, or sell elsewhere. Or keep for later (I never sell my alloys, and only sell Kuta if I have more than a stack).

While I do not agree with insults or name-calling, I would join the zone chat people helping new players realise the value of their loot. If I see this kind of thing in Reapers March, Craglorn, or another higher level zone I'd assume the players there have more of an inkling to the value or their stuff (and I usually turn chat off in those areas anyway).

Trying to buy things from newbies at a real low price to turn a profit is not forbidden, and does not constitute a scam, I just find it morally wrong. Different people have different morals though.

I will often sell stuff on guild traders at MM blue or purple price ranges just to make a quick sale, but I've been playing for over 3 years and don't really need gold anymore. The new players' experience is vastly different.

I advertise in EVERY zone. I do not target any group specifically. I have no problem with people saying what things are worth. However, I must ask:does wal-mart list what they paid the Chinese factories for their stock, next to the price we pay? The bottom line is that I just don't like people assuming I'm trying to cheat or scam anyone. I'm buying low and selling high like all good businesses do.

Walmart knows how to run a successful business. Your business practice has something to be desired, because it looks like you are not much successful with the way you handle your business.

Here are some tips: for things that sell well (raw mats, gold tempers, alchemy ingredients), buy anything that is 10% under MM. Not many people are unaware enough to sell you alchemy ingredients at 60% of MM, especially if your ads literally say "WTB ingredients at 60% MM". The flow of money is utmost important.

And no, what you are doing isn't wrong, it's just not really effective.

What makes you say I'm not successful?. . I make 200-500k a day. That is during the week. I make millions on weekends.The point of the thread is not a lack of profit its a lack of respect from people in zone.. As stated above I do not say 60% in zone. I name individual prices. I only mentioned the 60% (I pay 65% on bulk) in here for the sake of discussion. However, i do appreciate the advice and tips on what sells.

hmsdragonfly · June 2017

Almar wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Almar wrote: »

Khenarthi wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

In my experience, most are fully aware that they are not receiving top price. I think many have gone that route before and find it to be tedious. There are a variety of reasons why a player may not want to be in a trade guild. Selling via zone chat is probably not enjoyable to most people.

If his target audience are newbies in a starter zone, it looks predatory to me too, since new players are typically saving up for their first mount/gear set/etc and generally unaware of how much money they can get for something. For a new, uninformed player, selling a Nirnroot for 100 gold, or a Kuta for 1k, or a Tempering Alloy for 4k will look like a good trade.

If people on zone chat point out how much the newbies can get for those things, new players can make an informed decision to sell to the OP, or sell elsewhere. Or keep for later (I never sell my alloys, and only sell Kuta if I have more than a stack).

While I do not agree with insults or name-calling, I would join the zone chat people helping new players realise the value of their loot. If I see this kind of thing in Reapers March, Craglorn, or another higher level zone I'd assume the players there have more of an inkling to the value or their stuff (and I usually turn chat off in those areas anyway).

Trying to buy things from newbies at a real low price to turn a profit is not forbidden, and does not constitute a scam, I just find it morally wrong. Different people have different morals though.

I will often sell stuff on guild traders at MM blue or purple price ranges just to make a quick sale, but I've been playing for over 3 years and don't really need gold anymore. The new players' experience is vastly different.

I advertise in EVERY zone. I do not target any group specifically. I have no problem with people saying what things are worth. However, I must ask:does wal-mart list what they paid the Chinese factories for their stock, next to the price we pay? The bottom line is that I just don't like people assuming I'm trying to cheat or scam anyone. I'm buying low and selling high like all good businesses do.

Walmart knows how to run a successful business. Your business practice has something to be desired, because it looks like you are not much successful with the way you handle your business.

Here are some tips: for things that sell well (raw mats, gold tempers, alchemy ingredients), buy anything that is 10% under MM. Not many people are unaware enough to sell you alchemy ingredients at 60% of MM, especially if your ads literally say "WTB ingredients at 60% MM". The flow of money is utmost important.

And no, what you are doing isn't wrong, it's just not really effective.

What makes you say I'm not successful?. . I make 200-500k a day. That is during the week. I make millions on weekends.The point of the thread is not a lack of profit its a lack of respect from people in zone.. As stated above I do not say 60% in zone. I name individual prices. I only mentioned the 60% (I pay 65% on bulk) in here for the sake of discussion. However, i do appreciate the advice and tips on what sells.

PC EU or PC NA?

I don't believe that you can make 500k profit a day just from buying alchemy reagents at 60% from zonechat and resell them at full price, especially when people constantly spam MM and flame you. You can make that much of money through trading in general, but the question is, how much those 60% trade deals contribute to your total income?

wenchmore420b14_ESO · June 2017

Kneighbors wrote: »

Almar wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Almar wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

@Almar they are just jealous that they are not smart enough to play the market. Playing the market is a component of this game. Just ignore them.

I have ran into a couple of people like that myself, they are unworthy of our attention.

A guild leader in one of my guilds even threatened to kick me out over not paying MM for everything!

Wait, I may not fully understand your situation here. Can you tell me what exactly you are doing? Can you give me a detailed example of what you are doing?

I go into zones, i advertize that im buying reagents in bulk at 60% of MM value. I am met with Insults, threats, profanity, and claims that im a scammer etc . .

LOL.

1) You are spamming the chat with your monkey business. Imagine tomorrow everyone will start spamming this kind of messages over global chat. We will have to simply mute it. But you do feel special huh?

2) You are the buyer here and seller in your drug store. Imagine tomorrow a guy coming and starting to ask if you can sell him for 60% some of your store items. This is you, this is what you are doing. You are trying to buy for less then normal price. You are disappointing people who understand that and you get proper feedback for that.

Your 2) comment is TOTALLY silly and you have no grasp of how wholesale vs retail pricing works in business.And yes, even in a video game, trading, buying and selling, and making gold is a business.

Who here remembers BEFORE there were guild kiosks?? This was standard practice! Buy "x" in chat for 10k, make 20k reselling it.It is economics 101!

What the OP is doing is perfectly fine. Let trolls and people who don't understand business say what they will.
If I port to a out of the way wayshrine and there is a kiosk there, I will browse it for good deals, and then re-sell for profit. I will find green or blue items that are sought after gear, improve it to purple and resell at a profit.
Are people who buy un-refined mats and then make a profit by refining and selling the tempers wrong? Hell, this is how I made my first 100k BEFORE there were kiosks and all in zone chat.
@Almar, you are not evil and are just a good businessman. Ignore the nay sayers and trolls. Good luck to you!!
Huzzah!

Almar · June 2017

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

I just stick to buying and reselling that's listed on the vendors I don't go out of my way to spam for cheap prices, imo that's a better way to resell without getting flamed on.

Problem with that is that people are sooo hooked on MM that you rarely see anything below median value. It takes just as much time combing through hundred traders as it does to advertise in zone. I can deal with the flamers. I'm simply trying to understand where it comes from. After playing MMO's and doing resell for 15 years, I have never seen this kind of outrage over a 35% reselling profit margin.

Almar · June 2017

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Almar wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Almar wrote: »

Khenarthi wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

In my experience, most are fully aware that they are not receiving top price. I think many have gone that route before and find it to be tedious. There are a variety of reasons why a player may not want to be in a trade guild. Selling via zone chat is probably not enjoyable to most people.

If his target audience are newbies in a starter zone, it looks predatory to me too, since new players are typically saving up for their first mount/gear set/etc and generally unaware of how much money they can get for something. For a new, uninformed player, selling a Nirnroot for 100 gold, or a Kuta for 1k, or a Tempering Alloy for 4k will look like a good trade.

If people on zone chat point out how much the newbies can get for those things, new players can make an informed decision to sell to the OP, or sell elsewhere. Or keep for later (I never sell my alloys, and only sell Kuta if I have more than a stack).

While I do not agree with insults or name-calling, I would join the zone chat people helping new players realise the value of their loot. If I see this kind of thing in Reapers March, Craglorn, or another higher level zone I'd assume the players there have more of an inkling to the value or their stuff (and I usually turn chat off in those areas anyway).

Trying to buy things from newbies at a real low price to turn a profit is not forbidden, and does not constitute a scam, I just find it morally wrong. Different people have different morals though.

I will often sell stuff on guild traders at MM blue or purple price ranges just to make a quick sale, but I've been playing for over 3 years and don't really need gold anymore. The new players' experience is vastly different.

I advertise in EVERY zone. I do not target any group specifically. I have no problem with people saying what things are worth. However, I must ask:does wal-mart list what they paid the Chinese factories for their stock, next to the price we pay? The bottom line is that I just don't like people assuming I'm trying to cheat or scam anyone. I'm buying low and selling high like all good businesses do.

Walmart knows how to run a successful business. Your business practice has something to be desired, because it looks like you are not much successful with the way you handle your business.

Here are some tips: for things that sell well (raw mats, gold tempers, alchemy ingredients), buy anything that is 10% under MM. Not many people are unaware enough to sell you alchemy ingredients at 60% of MM, especially if your ads literally say "WTB ingredients at 60% MM". The flow of money is utmost important.

And no, what you are doing isn't wrong, it's just not really effective.

What makes you say I'm not successful?. . I make 200-500k a day. That is during the week. I make millions on weekends.The point of the thread is not a lack of profit its a lack of respect from people in zone.. As stated above I do not say 60% in zone. I name individual prices. I only mentioned the 60% (I pay 65% on bulk) in here for the sake of discussion. However, i do appreciate the advice and tips on what sells.

PC EU or PC NA?

I don't believe that you can make 500k profit a day just from buying alchemy reagents at 60% from zonechat and resell them at full price, especially when people constantly spam MM and flame you. You can make that much of money through trading in general, but the question is, how much those 60% trade deals contribute to your total income?

Whether or not you believe me is irrelevant to the fact that it is true. There are people smart enough to know how business works and that want to sell in bulk. They don't believe every flaming troll comment they read.

Zolron · June 2017

Almar wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Almar wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Almar wrote: »

Khenarthi wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

In my experience, most are fully aware that they are not receiving top price. I think many have gone that route before and find it to be tedious. There are a variety of reasons why a player may not want to be in a trade guild. Selling via zone chat is probably not enjoyable to most people.

If his target audience are newbies in a starter zone, it looks predatory to me too, since new players are typically saving up for their first mount/gear set/etc and generally unaware of how much money they can get for something. For a new, uninformed player, selling a Nirnroot for 100 gold, or a Kuta for 1k, or a Tempering Alloy for 4k will look like a good trade.

If people on zone chat point out how much the newbies can get for those things, new players can make an informed decision to sell to the OP, or sell elsewhere. Or keep for later (I never sell my alloys, and only sell Kuta if I have more than a stack).

While I do not agree with insults or name-calling, I would join the zone chat people helping new players realise the value of their loot. If I see this kind of thing in Reapers March, Craglorn, or another higher level zone I'd assume the players there have more of an inkling to the value or their stuff (and I usually turn chat off in those areas anyway).

Trying to buy things from newbies at a real low price to turn a profit is not forbidden, and does not constitute a scam, I just find it morally wrong. Different people have different morals though.

I will often sell stuff on guild traders at MM blue or purple price ranges just to make a quick sale, but I've been playing for over 3 years and don't really need gold anymore. The new players' experience is vastly different.

I advertise in EVERY zone. I do not target any group specifically. I have no problem with people saying what things are worth. However, I must ask:does wal-mart list what they paid the Chinese factories for their stock, next to the price we pay? The bottom line is that I just don't like people assuming I'm trying to cheat or scam anyone. I'm buying low and selling high like all good businesses do.

Walmart knows how to run a successful business. Your business practice has something to be desired, because it looks like you are not much successful with the way you handle your business.

Here are some tips: for things that sell well (raw mats, gold tempers, alchemy ingredients), buy anything that is 10% under MM. Not many people are unaware enough to sell you alchemy ingredients at 60% of MM, especially if your ads literally say "WTB ingredients at 60% MM". The flow of money is utmost important.

And no, what you are doing isn't wrong, it's just not really effective.

What makes you say I'm not successful?. . I make 200-500k a day. That is during the week. I make millions on weekends.The point of the thread is not a lack of profit its a lack of respect from people in zone.. As stated above I do not say 60% in zone. I name individual prices. I only mentioned the 60% (I pay 65% on bulk) in here for the sake of discussion. However, i do appreciate the advice and tips on what sells.

PC EU or PC NA?

I don't believe that you can make 500k profit a day just from buying alchemy reagents at 60% from zonechat and resell them at full price, especially when people constantly spam MM and flame you. You can make that much of money through trading in general, but the question is, how much those 60% trade deals contribute to your total income?

Whether or not you believe me is irrelevant to the fact that it is true. There are people smart enough to know how business works and that want to sell in bulk. They don't believe every flaming troll comment they read.

LoL..i'd even go one step further personally and don't believe 90% of his/her story !!

code65536 · June 2017

You also have to keep in mind that MM prices for alchemy mats are generally deflated by a low sales points. Usually by a lot. MM says one price, but when you as a buyer try to buy it, good luck finding any reasonable quantity at those MM prices. Most of the time, what I can find is 50% higher than MM.

So MM in this case isn't even the true market value. The true market value--what the typical buyer can expect to pay if they want to buy enough mats to make a stack or two--is much higher than what MM indicates. And then this "reseller" is buying them for a fraction of the already-lower-than-actual-value MM.

Well, if you can find people who have large stockpiles of these mats and no idea what they could really fetch, then consider yourself lucky. I still see it as predatory.

And every time I see someone--whether its the OP or anyone else--in zone chat advertising to buy for a predatory price that's ridiculously low, I will immediately offer to buy at MM so people (1) know that it's worth more and (2) if they do agree to sell to me, then that's a nice win since finding these reagents in reasonable quantities at actual MM is nigh impossible.

Almar · June 2017

code65536 wrote: »

You also have to keep in mind that MM prices for alchemy mats are generally deflated by a low sales points. Usually by a lot. MM says one price, but when you as a buyer try to buy it, good luck finding any reasonable quantity at those MM prices. Most of the time, what I can find is 50% higher than MM.

So MM in this case isn't even the true market value. The true market value--what the typical buyer can expect to pay if they want to buy enough mats to make a stack or two--is much higher than what MM indicates. And then this "reseller" is buying them for a fraction of the already-lower-than-actual-value MM.

Well, if you can find people who have large stockpiles of these mats and no idea what they could really fetch, then consider yourself lucky. I still see it as predatory.

And every time I see someone--whether its the OP or anyone else--in zone chat advertising to buy for a predatory price that's ridiculously low, I will immediately offer to buy at MM so people (1) know that it's worth more and (2) if they do agree to sell to me, then that's a nice win since finding these reagents in reasonable quantities at actual MM is nigh impossible.

So 35% profit is an outrageous predatory price? You have a lot to learn about business if you believe that. It is barely an acceptable risk on my part, since i have no guarantee that they will sell. If you wanna list MM prices for every re-seller you see because you are the "price police" and have decided what is"fair" and what isn't . . . go ahead. Since MM is only representative of the 5 guilds you are in, ill just list my Own MM prices which are usually 20% less than the big guilds.

CromulentForumID · June 2017

Almar wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

You also have to keep in mind that MM prices for alchemy mats are generally deflated by a low sales points. Usually by a lot. MM says one price, but when you as a buyer try to buy it, good luck finding any reasonable quantity at those MM prices. Most of the time, what I can find is 50% higher than MM.

So MM in this case isn't even the true market value. The true market value--what the typical buyer can expect to pay if they want to buy enough mats to make a stack or two--is much higher than what MM indicates. And then this "reseller" is buying them for a fraction of the already-lower-than-actual-value MM.

Well, if you can find people who have large stockpiles of these mats and no idea what they could really fetch, then consider yourself lucky. I still see it as predatory.

And every time I see someone--whether its the OP or anyone else--in zone chat advertising to buy for a predatory price that's ridiculously low, I will immediately offer to buy at MM so people (1) know that it's worth more and (2) if they do agree to sell to me, then that's a nice win since finding these reagents in reasonable quantities at actual MM is nigh impossible.

So 35% profit is an outrageous predatory price? You have a lot to learn about business if you believe that. It is barely an acceptable risk on my part, since i have no guarantee that they will sell. If you wanna list MM prices for every re-seller you see because you are the "price police" and have decided what is"fair" and what isn't . . . go ahead. Since MM is only representative of the 5 guilds you are in, ill just list my Own MM prices which are usually 20% less than the big guilds.

You know, for someone who just wanted some opinions, you are really digging in and defending yourself here.

Bouldercleave · June 2017

I'm pretty sure that if you are on PC /NA I have sold bulk items to you in the past.

I'm a 3+ year vet and am by no means ignorant to market pricing. As you have stated already, many of your sellers are vets like me that simply want to off bulk items and don't want the hassle of posting tons of mats on the limited guild listing that is available.

What you are doing is not wrong, it's not predatory, and you are not taking advantage of anyone. Please do not listen to the Socialists that think that everyone should just all work together for the common good. You absolutely deserve to make a profit for your time, effort, and risk.

I said before and it still is true in my eyes: 40% is ambitious, but you are taking ALL the risk in selling a commodity that can simply be harvested by ANYONE. I think that risk warrants a bit of reward.

necronomniconb14_ESO · June 2017

I believe many of the players in this one have never played an mmo in their life outside of something like runescape or second life if that even. So they need to be schooled on the standards for behavior, economics, group and social etiquette etc. It's a casual game targeting many consumers of the single player namesakes its spun off from and many of those people have rarely played many other games and were just into the real elder scrolls games since they are sandboxed and let them make the kinds of characters they wanted more easily compared to some other rpgs. Even ones that play a lot of rpgs or mainly rpgs, they may not have a lot experience with largely multiplayer games and may only be playing this one because it has an elder scrolls skin and they can usually play it alone with personal loot avoiding the burden of killstealing and ninja looting older games dealt with.

but then , as you used your real life examples, people should still be familiar with the concept of wholesale pricing and resale. But in this game it is so easy to be ripped off, and a casual with not much tot heir name does not want to risk being ripped off so it is safer to over price things rather than risk selling for much less than things are worth. Not to mention it is very slow to generate gold, generate not get from other players who had to generate the gold for the no-lifers out there ready to boast of how much time they wasted on the game's convoluted trader (or zone shout) shenanigans. If the game had an alliance, if not server based market system there wouldn't be these issues eventually.

No one except the no lifers are certain of the value of things at any given moment which makes people who don't wish to waste their time playing monopoly with an elder scrolls skin skeptical of others. they will tend to believe the person telling them they should be asking for more for something since it's the safer opinion. There is nothing with the concept of wholesale pricing itself though, but this game isn't very friendly to it the way it is set up because there is a natural lack of trust and ability to exploit more ignorant players.

If the prices were stable, and easily well known, there are plenty of people happy to unburden themselves and get a quick lump sum for it while the one willing to put more time in selling the items will make something off the extra time investment. Its a win-win, in the truest sense, but people are not able to easily trust each other in this game and that's on zyngamax not the players because they're unwilling and not skilled enough to at least create alliance based markets. Sometimes it's as if a bunch of teenagers dreampt up this game's mechanics in the basements of one of their mothers... no joke. And not the brightest ones either.