THE PROCALYPSE

Rohamad_Ali · June 2017

As much as I completely agree , the Development Team does not and no one has ever convinced them to change direction since launch . So we are just writing novels that wind up in the trash bin .

akray21 · June 2017

I don't think all proc sets are an issue, I think each one needs to be looked at individually... but that's not how ZOS operates. I think procs have a place in the game and I fear that a blanket nerf will come and make all procs useless.

rfennell_ESO · June 2017

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

As much as I completely agree , the Development Team does not and no one has ever convinced them to change direction since launch . So we are just writing novels that wind up in the trash bin .

Well you can either chose not to write the novel or write it.

A written novel in the trash bin is better than nothing at all!

Minno · June 2017

BraidasNM wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

BraidasNM wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

As if you wouldn't see the same crap on your recap if you sport max cheese... As someone who has actually competed in truely competitive scenarios, IRL and online, I can tell you that my self-respect and respect of athletes I value is worth far more to me than instablowing scrubs every day or using shady tactics IRL, "m8".

its not actlly cheating tho, just using bis. if you wanna go irl with it, ppl say jon jones trying to kick nikkas knees out is a dirty tactic. but hes the champ (well, undefeated at least) and the other guys fade away and no one cares. you feel me m9?

Except people will remember Derek Jeter forever for the sportsmanship he brought to baseball while idiots on the same team that took performance drugs get thrown to the wayside. Context is powerful.

see but performance enchancing drugs are literally cheating. thts like turning on CE

I can see the distinction.

But free DMG doesn't match the intention that they laid out where they want the game to have clear cost to the actions you perform and repercussions for not using the correct spell at the right situation.

It's like that time in baseball every other athlete used those drugs and it took the league some time to offer official punishments. In that grey area of what to do to provide clear rules but since no official stance was created players used them because "they could".

Against the intention of the game, proc sets without a counter are not a sportsman like ways to be competitive.

Darlgon · June 2017

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

As much as I completely agree , the Development Team does not and no one has ever convinced them to change direction since launch . So we are just writing novels that wind up in the trash bin .

Well you can either chose not to write the novel or write it.

A written novel in the trash bin is better than nothing at all!

Actually its..

GreenSoup2HoT · June 2017

Not to undermine the proc argument but i think some stamina skills are pretty bad offenders aswell. Poison Inj and Executioner scaling at 50% only makes it easier to burst.

The whole issue started with the flood of new monster helms. Theres like 10 i could name that are too strong and proc oriented. Then theres widow, viper, red mountain that are all too strong.

Just wreck these 3 sets and rebalance monster helms.

Rohamad_Ali · June 2017

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

As much as I completely agree , the Development Team does not and no one has ever convinced them to change direction since launch . So we are just writing novels that wind up in the trash bin .

Well you can either chose not to write the novel or write it.

A written novel in the trash bin is better than nothing at all!

I've already written too many . I am all for change in direction here .

Derra · June 2017

QuebraRegra wrote: »

Irylia wrote: »

You can still be competitive without submitting to the proc meta. Every real competitive e sport will have metas or strong picks and they will make it easier to perform but this doesn't prevent actually competitive and skilled players from competing at an equal or superior level.

If anything procs inflate what skill actually is and make worse players better, not through ones own skill but just from having extra damage that they would otherwise not combo in as fast via a light bash weave or heavy before incap etc.

Makes my life brutal as a msorc but it doesn't stop me from being better or competitive. It does make being xv1'd cancer.

Also, this game is far from actual competitive gameplay. No ranked system, no balanced gear/classes. Rng system is rampant when it comes to hitting someone or not.
Can't be a competitive game when rng shuffle has no downtime other than your inability to cast it. How can you judge or base skill when a player gets free mitigation without having to avoid or mit it themselves a short cool down or up time I can see shuffle being fine but it's too long.

The problem is people are treating this like an "e-sport" (ridiculous) when it should be treated like an RPG. Too many COD kidz.

Esport or RPG - it´s not fun/good gameplay/healthy for the game or whatever else in both potential scenarios.

Some broken things are broken regardless of the context you put them in.

Malic · June 2017

Jules wrote: »

It's pretty clear procs are overperforming in BG's.
Viper is on nearly every stam build in under a week with 0 skillful counterplay available.

Before we jump into it, I'll beat you to whatever you're about to say - yes, I am running two proc sets on my stamblade right now.
Yes I am doing this on stream.

"Why, you hypocrite?"

Why? Because this is best in slot for stamblade bar none. Because to remain competitive, you wear competitive gear. You want to say it's unoriginal or cheesy or whatever else, I agree. It is. I hate when it happens to me, and I hate doing it to other people. It makes for lame, senseless pvp. But if people are going to burst me with proc sets, have free damage and incredible sustain, I will be at a distinct disadvantage to not do the same. If I choose to take the hundings high road, I will take longer to kill people and waste more resources. And because of this, I will have an overall lower chance of success. So it's not that I like it, it's not that I support it. It's just that procs are undeniably effective. As a player who wants to compete, I cannot be expected to knowingly put myself at a disadvantage just because of some intangible video game morality. The set is in the game so it's fair to use. The question of why, whether it should be, and how to deal with it is another story entirely.

This is the dilemma in everyone's mind. To win with procs or remain honorable and lose.
Why am I as a player having to choose between being sportsmanlike and being competitive? Why are these two methods mutually exclusive?

How many years has this community been forced to self regulate?
Instead of relying on ZOS to fix broken, imbalanced mechanics and sets, we've become so accustomed to holding ourselves back from things that are "meta" or "cheese" - LIKE proc sets, LIKE heavy armor, LIKE whatever class is best at the time. The problem with a community self regulating is that only half the community is willing to do this. And as time goes on, more people get frustrated - more people jump to the dark side. Eventually, the entire experience is completely diluted and theorycrafting anything outside this meta is worthless. Build homogenization. Boring PVP with lack of counterplay.

We should not have to self regulate this time.
It's time we look to ZOS to fix what is clearly broken and overperforming instead of trying to force ourselves away from sets that are imbalanced, and yet somehow optimal.

This proc meta is only in its baby stages and viper is already on nearly every death recap of every person I talk to.
It's time ZOS gets in front of this impending meta and fix it before it breaks the integrity of BGs, and ruins their promising growth.

Point blank, it is far too easy to stack damage through proc sets. When you have proc sets, you have enough damage that it doesn't matter what your max stats are. Stats can be crap like my stam nb's (below) and you can still dish out top damage. What's worse, is that it deeply affects sustain as well. Because you don't have to actively choose sets that give you sustain, just change some enchants or mundus around and you are fully optimal. Proc sets open you up to much easier sustain in addition to the easier damage. IE: Why spend 6k stam to do 2-3 different skills when I can use half the stam to do the same damage with just one skill? Proc sets are essentially FREE DAMAGE and thus FREE SUSTAIN. It requires 0 effort, it requires 0 skill, it requires 0 conscious decisions to be made other than to simply equip it. Like playing on autopilot, if you will.

Selene's on my stam nb is hitting for an average of 5-7k and I have 27k max stam and 2300-2500 weapon damage. That is broken. That should never hit that hard with those stats, but it does. Because people are forced into medium and light with new sustain changes, they can barely even mitigate the damage and certainly can't have adequate counterplay to it. They have barely any resistance as it is with sharpened + the major fracture of surprise attack, not to mention the multitude of damage modifiers NB has.

But this isn't about NB. It's about the sets. Because they work too well on DK, Templar, Sorc, and Warden as well. They are just particularly lethal on NB's because the class is designed for damage.

The point of the matter is: procs are ruining any semblance of balance in BGs. Procs are ruining our chance at counterplay. Procs are ruining our fun with theorycrafting because they are so far superior that it is pointless to try to out-optimize them. And it will only get worse the further into this we get. Right now the information of what is best in slot is trickling down to others, people are telling their friends, people are seeing it on their death recaps over and over and considering to themselves if they'd like to equip the same to find some relief from pain of dealing with it.

This procalypse needs to end before this patch goes to open access for the rest of PC and console on June 6th.
This flaw has the potential to ruin the PVP BG experience for thousands of people intent on giving this game another try. As a community we need to demand change, we need to demand ZOS regulate things such as this that are grossly overperforming. It doesn't matter how we go about minimizing their effectiveness, we need to try something.

My suggestion is to add a mechanic to battle spirit that reduces the effectiveness of procs (in BG's, and perhaps in Cyro as well). This way, any PVE builds using proc sets are not made ineffective, and we can find a resolution to this that makes everyone happy. Not sure what the best way to go about nerfing them would be, some suggest that making only one proc set effective at a time is a good place to start. But I highly doubt a change like this would stop anything, seeing as everyone would just run viper. Perhaps putting all proc sets on 1 singular global cooldown, doing an overall % reduction of proc damage, or proc chance, or literally any other method of reducing their effectiveness I am down for.

I am more than willing to hear other people's ideas in terms of bringing these in line with other sets. I'm sure plenty of you have more creative ideas than I ever could. I look forward to discussing this with others and hopefully convincing ZOS devs @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_BrianWheeler that these sets need some attention.

I hope that as a community, we can put aside preference for sake of balance, and foster challenging and purposeful PVP going forward.

Thanks for reading and have a great day.

Love,
Jules

PS: A great clip to prove this imbalance.
https://clips.twitch.tv/BravePlayfulMangetoutHeyGuys

dont you love the hypocrites who preempt you with an acknowledgement of their hypocrisy then attempt to shame you for calling them on it with some meme "I know what youre going to say so ya dont say it"

Then they give you some B.S. narrative on how it should be nerfed, but of course they are using it for the "good of the game".

These are exactly the people who have negatively impacted PVP, but do make sure you head on over to the channel and subscribe !

Please.

Darlgon · June 2017

Malic wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

It's pretty clear procs are overperforming in BG's.
Viper is on nearly every stam build in under a week with 0 skillful counterplay available.

Before we jump into it, I'll beat you to whatever you're about to say - yes, I am running two proc sets on my stamblade right now.
Yes I am doing this on stream.

"Why, you hypocrite?"

/snip.

Love,
Jules

PS: A great clip to prove this imbalance.
https://clips.twitch.tv/BravePlayfulMangetoutHeyGuys

dont you love the hypocrites who preempt you with an acknowledgement of their hypocrisy then attempt to shame you for calling them on it with some meme "I know what youre going to say so ya dont say it"

Then they give you some B.S. narrative on how it should be nerfed, but of course they are using it for the "good of the game".

These are exactly the people who have negatively impacted PVP, but do make sure you head on over to the channel and subscribe !

Please.

tactical-team-facepalm-facepalm-demotivational-posters-1331896461.jpg

Dyride · June 2017

Honestly about a 20% damage nerf to Velidreth, Viper, Selenes and Widowmaker is needed since those sets are outperforming everything. Nobody is dying to Affliction or Ashen Grip.

You'd still get them in your recap but overall the builds would be much less effective.

Proc sets also shouldn't be getting damage increases from passives, power ups, and Ultimates (Incap cough cough).

Malic · June 2017

Darlgon wrote: »

Malic wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

It's pretty clear procs are overperforming in BG's.
Viper is on nearly every stam build in under a week with 0 skillful counterplay available.

Before we jump into it, I'll beat you to whatever you're about to say - yes, I am running two proc sets on my stamblade right now.
Yes I am doing this on stream.

"Why, you hypocrite?"

/snip.

Love,
Jules

PS: A great clip to prove this imbalance.
https://clips.twitch.tv/BravePlayfulMangetoutHeyGuys

dont you love the hypocrites who preempt you with an acknowledgement of their hypocrisy then attempt to shame you for calling them on it with some meme "I know what youre going to say so ya dont say it"

Then they give you some B.S. narrative on how it should be nerfed, but of course they are using it for the "good of the game".

These are exactly the people who have negatively impacted PVP, but do make sure you head on over to the channel and subscribe !

Please.

say hi to jules on her stream, maybe she will give you a tickle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyiTkQgweOc

Jules · June 2017

Malic wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

It's pretty clear procs are overperforming in BG's.
Viper is on nearly every stam build in under a week with 0 skillful counterplay available.

Before we jump into it, I'll beat you to whatever you're about to say - yes, I am running two proc sets on my stamblade right now.
Yes I am doing this on stream.

"Why, you hypocrite?"

Why? Because this is best in slot for stamblade bar none. Because to remain competitive, you wear competitive gear. You want to say it's unoriginal or cheesy or whatever else, I agree. It is. I hate when it happens to me, and I hate doing it to other people. It makes for lame, senseless pvp. But if people are going to burst me with proc sets, have free damage and incredible sustain, I will be at a distinct disadvantage to not do the same. If I choose to take the hundings high road, I will take longer to kill people and waste more resources. And because of this, I will have an overall lower chance of success. So it's not that I like it, it's not that I support it. It's just that procs are undeniably effective. As a player who wants to compete, I cannot be expected to knowingly put myself at a disadvantage just because of some intangible video game morality. The set is in the game so it's fair to use. The question of why, whether it should be, and how to deal with it is another story entirely.

This is the dilemma in everyone's mind. To win with procs or remain honorable and lose.
Why am I as a player having to choose between being sportsmanlike and being competitive? Why are these two methods mutually exclusive?

How many years has this community been forced to self regulate?
Instead of relying on ZOS to fix broken, imbalanced mechanics and sets, we've become so accustomed to holding ourselves back from things that are "meta" or "cheese" - LIKE proc sets, LIKE heavy armor, LIKE whatever class is best at the time. The problem with a community self regulating is that only half the community is willing to do this. And as time goes on, more people get frustrated - more people jump to the dark side. Eventually, the entire experience is completely diluted and theorycrafting anything outside this meta is worthless. Build homogenization. Boring PVP with lack of counterplay.

We should not have to self regulate this time.
It's time we look to ZOS to fix what is clearly broken and overperforming instead of trying to force ourselves away from sets that are imbalanced, and yet somehow optimal.

This proc meta is only in its baby stages and viper is already on nearly every death recap of every person I talk to.
It's time ZOS gets in front of this impending meta and fix it before it breaks the integrity of BGs, and ruins their promising growth.

Point blank, it is far too easy to stack damage through proc sets. When you have proc sets, you have enough damage that it doesn't matter what your max stats are. Stats can be crap like my stam nb's (below) and you can still dish out top damage. What's worse, is that it deeply affects sustain as well. Because you don't have to actively choose sets that give you sustain, just change some enchants or mundus around and you are fully optimal. Proc sets open you up to much easier sustain in addition to the easier damage. IE: Why spend 6k stam to do 2-3 different skills when I can use half the stam to do the same damage with just one skill? Proc sets are essentially FREE DAMAGE and thus FREE SUSTAIN. It requires 0 effort, it requires 0 skill, it requires 0 conscious decisions to be made other than to simply equip it. Like playing on autopilot, if you will.

Selene's on my stam nb is hitting for an average of 5-7k and I have 27k max stam and 2300-2500 weapon damage. That is broken. That should never hit that hard with those stats, but it does. Because people are forced into medium and light with new sustain changes, they can barely even mitigate the damage and certainly can't have adequate counterplay to it. They have barely any resistance as it is with sharpened + the major fracture of surprise attack, not to mention the multitude of damage modifiers NB has.

But this isn't about NB. It's about the sets. Because they work too well on DK, Templar, Sorc, and Warden as well. They are just particularly lethal on NB's because the class is designed for damage.

The point of the matter is: procs are ruining any semblance of balance in BGs. Procs are ruining our chance at counterplay. Procs are ruining our fun with theorycrafting because they are so far superior that it is pointless to try to out-optimize them. And it will only get worse the further into this we get. Right now the information of what is best in slot is trickling down to others, people are telling their friends, people are seeing it on their death recaps over and over and considering to themselves if they'd like to equip the same to find some relief from pain of dealing with it.

This procalypse needs to end before this patch goes to open access for the rest of PC and console on June 6th.
This flaw has the potential to ruin the PVP BG experience for thousands of people intent on giving this game another try. As a community we need to demand change, we need to demand ZOS regulate things such as this that are grossly overperforming. It doesn't matter how we go about minimizing their effectiveness, we need to try something.

My suggestion is to add a mechanic to battle spirit that reduces the effectiveness of procs (in BG's, and perhaps in Cyro as well). This way, any PVE builds using proc sets are not made ineffective, and we can find a resolution to this that makes everyone happy. Not sure what the best way to go about nerfing them would be, some suggest that making only one proc set effective at a time is a good place to start. But I highly doubt a change like this would stop anything, seeing as everyone would just run viper. Perhaps putting all proc sets on 1 singular global cooldown, doing an overall % reduction of proc damage, or proc chance, or literally any other method of reducing their effectiveness I am down for.

I am more than willing to hear other people's ideas in terms of bringing these in line with other sets. I'm sure plenty of you have more creative ideas than I ever could. I look forward to discussing this with others and hopefully convincing ZOS devs @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_BrianWheeler that these sets need some attention.

I hope that as a community, we can put aside preference for sake of balance, and foster challenging and purposeful PVP going forward.

Thanks for reading and have a great day.

Love,
Jules

PS: A great clip to prove this imbalance.
https://clips.twitch.tv/BravePlayfulMangetoutHeyGuys

dont you love the hypocrites who preempt you with an acknowledgement of their hypocrisy then attempt to shame you for calling them on it with some meme "I know what youre going to say so ya dont say it"

Then they give you some B.S. narrative on how it should be nerfed, but of course they are using it for the "good of the game".

These are exactly the people who have negatively impacted PVP, but do make sure you head on over to the channel and subscribe !

Please.

I never once said I'm using proc sets for the good of the game. So idk what you read, but clearly wasn't my post. I said I'm using proc sets because they're effective. They're BIS. The rest of what you wrote just sounds like salt, childish attacks and mocking rather than constructive conversation. So congratulations, you've effectively 100% missed the point. Always gotta be atleast one I guess.

Malamar1229 · June 2017

I think the simplest solution without upsetting pve is to just add a line "this effect is reduced by X in pvp environments" to all proc sets.

i refuse to use them and after encountering your buddy jordaen last night, i hung up the guns for this game.

I mean I get what youre saying. but im not going to deflate footballs just to stay competitive. I wouldnt take your stance personally, id rally my fans against and play without them. But i get you, just like i get why you did the things you've done back when zazeer was playing...

Malic · June 2017

Dyride wrote: »

Honestly about a 20% damage nerf to Velidreth, Viper, Selenes and Widowmaker is needed since those sets are outperforming everything. Nobody is dying to Affliction or Ashen Grip.

You'd still get them in your recap but overall the builds would be much less effective.

Proc sets also shouldn't be getting damage increases from passives, power ups, and Ultimates (Incap cough cough).

If people havent figured out how to counter proc set players in the heavy armor meta then its never going to happen.

So for them, ya nerf it, nerf it all just make it easier. Counter play? Nah thats WAY TO HARD. Dont be blinded by the fanboys either, they will shout until they are blue in the face for their hero's, no matter how wrong they are it wont matter, LOL. We used to see this with the Sypher disciples all the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cg_8knBHEyw

Rohamad_Ali · June 2017

I went an entire year without using a proc set . I got so use to dying in 20 seconds I just started running PVE abilities in PVP . I slotted baleful mist , shadow barrier , malefic reef and every other goofy ability you can imagine at the end of the year . Someone even told me @jules told me to go back to PVE in one of here streams . It was the most painful year ever . Humiliation was my middle name .

So finally I listened to another friend and just ran everything . Now when my suits kill a whole raid I am praised by my team . It's not the way I like to win , it's the way I have to win . Honor or not , I might as well not waste a faction spot being honorable .

Malic · June 2017

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I went an entire year without using a proc set . I got so use to dying in 20 seconds I just started running PVE abilities in PVP . I slotted baleful mist , shadow barrier , malefic reef and every other goofy ability you can imagine at the end of the year . Someone even told me @jules told me to go back to PVE in one of here streams . It was the most painful year ever . Humiliation was my middle name .

So finally I listened to another friend and just ran everything . Now when my suits kill a whole raid I am praised by my team . It's not the way I like to win , it's the way I have to win . Honor or not , I might as well not waste a faction spot being honorable .

So if Im understanding this correctly, you identified accurately a means to achieve your goal, implemented it, are not happy with the outcome yet continue the process, like the OP, and want ZOS to fix the means by which you achieved your goal so you will not be able to achieve it in the future.

I mean what the *** do you say to people who have this mind set?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvVPdyYeaQU

Jules · June 2017

Malamar1229 wrote: »

I think the simplest solution without upsetting pve is to just add a line "this effect is reduced by X in pvp environments" to all proc sets.

i refuse to use them and after encountering your buddy jordaen last night, i hung up the guns for this game.

I mean I get what youre saying. but im not going to deflate footballs just to stay competitive. I wouldnt take your stance personally, id rally my fans against and plau without them. But i get you, just like i get why you did the things you've done back when zazeer was playing...

did you just imply I use/d cheat engine? lol

Hoked_on_ponix · June 2017

@Malic

What are you going off about? Just stop.

Sandman929 · June 2017

I don't understand the concern about "upsetting PvE"...absolutely everything about PvE can be retuned to any change. It's all scripted damage and stats.

Rohamad_Ali · June 2017

Malic wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I went an entire year without using a proc set . I got so use to dying in 20 seconds I just started running PVE abilities in PVP . I slotted baleful mist , shadow barrier , malefic reef and every other goofy ability you can imagine at the end of the year . Someone even told me @jules told me to go back to PVE in one of here streams . It was the most painful year ever . Humiliation was my middle name .

So finally I listened to another friend and just ran everything . Now when my suits kill a whole raid I am praised by my team . It's not the way I like to win , it's the way I have to win . Honor or not , I might as well not waste a faction spot being honorable .

So if Im understanding this correctly, you identified accurately a means to achieve your goal, implemented it, are not happy with the outcome yet continue the process, like the OP, and want ZOS to fix the means by which you achieved your goal so you will not be able to achieve it in the future.

I mean what the *** do you say to people who have this mind set?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvVPdyYeaQU

It's the Star Trek no win scenario my friend . I would prefer to fight in green no five piece bonus armor sets with 100% class ability skill driven combat . I don't expect others to share my preference so I do not impose my playstyle on others by writing threads on it . I just respond to threads on the issue . I have accepted the game as is now . If the game changes direction great , if doesn't great , I just use what the Devs throw at Us now . It's their game not mine .

QuebraRegra · June 2017

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I went an entire year without using a proc set . I got so use to dying in 20 seconds I just started running PVE abilities in PVP . I slotted baleful mist , shadow barrier , malefic reef and every other goofy ability you can imagine at the end of the year . Someone even told me @jules told me to go back to PVE in one of here streams . It was the most painful year ever . Humiliation was my middle name .

So finally I listened to another friend and just ran everything . Now when my suits kill a whole raid I am praised by my team . It's not the way I like to win , it's the way I have to win . Honor or not , I might as well not waste a faction spot being honorable .

I like this, because it highlights one of my personal dislikes in some games... When yer equipment becomes the defining/deciding factor and not yer character. Particularly with the removal of CP from campaign (much needed IMHO), sets become the go-to for OP, rather than how the person playing builds plays their character. Builds still matter, but the character is overshadowed by the gear. The gear should be an enhancement, no a replacement.

We should just have a costume of empty armor and floating weapons to represent how we're really playing GEAR.

Malamar1229 · June 2017

Sandman929 wrote: »

I don't understand the concern about "upsetting PvE"...absolutely everything about PvE can be retuned to any change. It's all scripted damage and stats.

well bc that group always gets upset when a change is made to balance pvp

BraidasNM · June 2017

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

BraidasNM wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

As if you wouldn't see the same crap on your recap if you sport max cheese... As someone who has actually competed in truely competitive scenarios, IRL and online, I can tell you that my self-respect and respect of athletes I value is worth far more to me than instablowing scrubs every day or using shady tactics IRL, "m8".

its not actlly cheating tho, just using bis. if you wanna go irl with it, ppl say jon jones trying to kick nikkas knees out is a dirty tactic. but hes the champ (well, undefeated at least) and the other guys fade away and no one cares. you feel me m9?

You brought cheating into the context, not me. I was comparing it to shady moves/tactics in the sports I was active in, not outright doping/cheating.

I consider this conversion over. You guys use the word "competitive" quite a lot. I highly doubt you've ever understood what it means or performed in competitive environments at a high level, though. No point in arguing with that.

i didnt use the word competitive once lmao. i also consider this "conversation" over bc ur not even reading what i wrote, and this thread is about proc sets not ur real life lol. pce m8

rfennell_ESO · June 2017

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I went an entire year without using a proc set . I got so use to dying in 20 seconds I just started running PVE abilities in PVP . I slotted baleful mist , shadow barrier , malefic reef and every other goofy ability you can imagine at the end of the year . Someone even told me @jules told me to go back to PVE in one of here streams . It was the most painful year ever . Humiliation was my middle name .

So finally I listened to another friend and just ran everything . Now when my suits kill a whole raid I am praised by my team . It's not the way I like to win , it's the way I have to win . Honor or not , I might as well not waste a faction spot being honorable .

So you know, the player in question sends nasty whispers and says nasty things about you even when you kill her.

It's not like you're talking about someone respected.

Azurethe · June 2017

Hello, I actually love having procs in the game, it adds a new dynamic to the game that is almost unheard of within other games such as skyrim, oblivion or even the original Arena, which is what BGs are actually based off of. Having sets that have a proc chance and a cooldown attached to them lets people expand their builds beyond stacking damage sets and regen, but allows free damage, giving up that hard hitting damage, and allows more regen. I would even stretch to say there should be an oblivion damage mundus within the game, which is a clear stretch off of what is considered the norm, stat sheet modifiers . These are just a few of my thoughts, but feel free to comment on it and leave your feedback

Jules · June 2017

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I went an entire year without using a proc set . I got so use to dying in 20 seconds I just started running PVE abilities in PVP . I slotted baleful mist , shadow barrier , malefic reef and every other goofy ability you can imagine at the end of the year . Someone even told me @jules told me to go back to PVE in one of here streams . It was the most painful year ever . Humiliation was my middle name .

So finally I listened to another friend and just ran everything . Now when my suits kill a whole raid I am praised by my team . It's not the way I like to win , it's the way I have to win . Honor or not , I might as well not waste a faction spot being honorable .

So you know, the player in question sends nasty whispers and says nasty things about you even when you kill her.

It's not like you're talking about someone respected.

Omg please forgive me I just want you to like and respect me. PLEASE.

Minalan · June 2017

I love how BSW got kicked in the balls this patch, but not viper? Really? Seriously?

SodanTok · June 2017

True problem is how few balance changes happen in this game. It is over a week of BG and it is clear some sets (mostly viper) overperforms. So clear than even some people at ZoS must see it, but if the current trend continues they will do nothing about it in next 3 months. (I would so like to be wrong)

Magıc · June 2017

Force-Siphon wrote: »

PvP in this game has come down to two things, proc builds where your armor does all the work for you, or unkillable tank builds. Both are hated upon by the community yet everyone is forced into it. They killed PvP in this game with the idea that armor sets doing damage for you and tanking were the way to build on their pvp combat. The only way they could even come close to fixing how terrible PvP is would be to make crafted sets the only form of armor/weapons that you could use in PvP and introduce jewelry-crafting. This is something that can't be fixed before June 6th and honestly has been something we have complained about for a long time now. Out of many MMOs, ESO probably has the most moronic armor/weapon set up for PvP. The fact that you can do literally 1 skill and kill people based on your armor doing damage is so ridiculous when i tell my friends about it they laugh and think i'm joking. I'm sure it's cool when you're new to the game in a PvE zone and you are running around with some proc set but when it happens to you over and over and over and over and over and over in PvP for this amount of time the writing is on the wall that PvP is not even worth playing anymore. This is literally the same thing every patch with ESO, we are promised balance changes and fixes to make PvP competitive and fun again and it continues to get worse. Homestead was the same thing, we expected the opportunity to at least be able to fight back and they increased damage and basically forced people to zerg in open world to not get 1 shot. The proc meta in battlegrounds is not exclusive to Morrowind patch...it's the same problem we have seen for a year or whatever its just more obvious now because you can't ball up and zerg in battlegrounds so people are less protected from it. Gratz ZOS on ruining PvP, maybe once it hits console people will get upset enough to actually force them to change things but i doubt it because it would require rethinking their whole PvP gearing and combat from the ground up which clearly is too much of a task for them. They couldn't even fix streak for months let alone reconfigure everything in PvP.

Just remove them from PvP. Period.

Come back @Force-Siphon we miss you