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Crystal Frag Nerf Not Enough
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hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »...They are pulling 55k+ on single target trials bosses, with insanely strong cleave/aoe damage.
lol with the burning spell weave/moondancer build? No, they aren't. Video or it didn't happen. I could believe this in a full raid buff situation worm/spc/ele drain/alkosh in which case, every class is doing that well.
I do agree that mag sorcs are the best dps BUT that is because they have very good utility (range,shields) while still pulling relatively high DPS. Stam single target is actually stronger than mag single target period. Stating that top stamina players are struggling to hit the same cap as mag sorcs under the same circumstances is simply not true (and insulting to good stam players who have exceeded this DPS number).
You sir are very incorrect. Mag sorc has BY FAR, the highest single target/aoe/cleave dps in this game. At range and with shields... Video or it didn't happen? Alright I will link one for you. I have a couple buddies who have hit 62k+ on Ra Kotu, were not recording though... The highest stamina single target parse I have seen in a trial this patch is 51 flat. BIT OF A DIFFERENCE? Even though they are forced to be melee, and do not have access to a shield that gives them 20k fake health at the click of a button. Please sir, prove me wrong and show me a video of a stamina build pulling more than 55k single target in a trial. You have used the line "Video or it didn't happen", I will now post a couple videos and await your response. I am very excited to see a stamina parse that exceeds 55k single target on a trial boss. You are about to bless the entire eso community and I very much look forward to your response @Yo_Donno
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foAkqmVv4Fg
Even though this parse is 57k it still reinforces the point. There isn't a random reason top scores are only achieved with 6-7 mag sorc toons as DPS. The fact that you think any class can hit 55k single target is not true. Trying to say stamina builds can pull more than that is even more ridiculous. I really do hope you respond with some video links, and I look forward to it.
To be fair, thats one video of one guy hitting those numbers....i think thats the video everyone uses to say sorcs are OP. They are indeed very good, but I wouldnt use this video alone....outliers are never good for proof. Honestly if they changed vMA to be like it used to be 3k wep damage, that would be enough for all stam save stamplar to be back to be on par with magicka 100% of the time..and with the changes to caltrops and blade cloak as well as the nerf to lightning staff damage it seems like their AoE damage may closing in.
To be fair, 57k isn't even that great. There are tons of videos of mag sorc 55k+ single target on fights where tons of mechanics are involved and they lose a lot of time dpsing. I know many people that have hit 60 on the manti. I also know a couple guys who have hit 62k on Ra Kotu in Hel Ra... 60k+ single target while ranged and having shields is just insane... To be fair, buffing vma weapons back to 3k would not even come close to making up for around 10k single target dps. AOE from stamina builds is still not even close to mag toons on the PTS right now. Thanks for the input but I strongly disagree with pretty much every point you have.
Also i can guarantee you that my stam dk would outdps my mag sorc if I got vMA weps back when it come to single target...0 -
Shadzilla✭✭✭✭✭
✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »...They are pulling 55k+ on single target trials bosses, with insanely strong cleave/aoe damage.
lol with the burning spell weave/moondancer build? No, they aren't. Video or it didn't happen. I could believe this in a full raid buff situation worm/spc/ele drain/alkosh in which case, every class is doing that well.
I do agree that mag sorcs are the best dps BUT that is because they have very good utility (range,shields) while still pulling relatively high DPS. Stam single target is actually stronger than mag single target period. Stating that top stamina players are struggling to hit the same cap as mag sorcs under the same circumstances is simply not true (and insulting to good stam players who have exceeded this DPS number).
You sir are very incorrect. Mag sorc has BY FAR, the highest single target/aoe/cleave dps in this game. At range and with shields... Video or it didn't happen? Alright I will link one for you. I have a couple buddies who have hit 62k+ on Ra Kotu, were not recording though... The highest stamina single target parse I have seen in a trial this patch is 51 flat. BIT OF A DIFFERENCE? Even though they are forced to be melee, and do not have access to a shield that gives them 20k fake health at the click of a button. Please sir, prove me wrong and show me a video of a stamina build pulling more than 55k single target in a trial. You have used the line "Video or it didn't happen", I will now post a couple videos and await your response. I am very excited to see a stamina parse that exceeds 55k single target on a trial boss. You are about to bless the entire eso community and I very much look forward to your response @Yo_Donnohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foAkqmVv4Fg
Even though this parse is 57k it still reinforces the point. There isn't a random reason top scores are only achieved with 6-7 mag sorc toons as DPS. The fact that you think any class can hit 55k single target is not true. Trying to say stamina builds can pull more than that is even more ridiculous. I really do hope you respond with some video links, and I look forward to it.
To be fair, thats one video of one guy hitting those numbers....i think thats the video everyone uses to say sorcs are OP. They are indeed very good, but I wouldnt use this video alone....outliers are never good for proof. Honestly if they changed vMA to be like it used to be 3k wep damage, that would be enough for all stam save stamplar to be back to be on par with magicka 100% of the time..and with the changes to caltrops and blade cloak as well as the nerf to lightning staff damage it seems like their AoE damage may closing in.
To be fair, 57k isn't even that great. There are tons of videos of mag sorc 55k+ single target on fights where tons of mechanics are involved and they lose a lot of time dpsing. I know many people that have hit 60 on the manti. I also know a couple guys who have hit 62k on Ra Kotu in Hel Ra... 60k+ single target while ranged and having shields is just insane... To be fair, buffing vma weapons back to 3k would not even come close to making up for around 10k single target dps. AOE from stamina builds is still not even close to mag toons on the PTS right now. Thanks for the input but I strongly disagree with pretty much every point you have.
Shad...have you seen those 60k+ parses? the fight lasts less than 1.5 minutes...its shorter than a combat dummy dps test...its bursty....
Regardless of it being a 90 second fight or not, they still have much more dps than anyone else. Take your stam dk in there and do the 90 second fight. Will 60k+ be even remotely possible? No way in hell.
Also i can guarantee you that my stam dk would outdps my mag sorc if I got vMA weps back when it come to single target...
That would be close, even at the 3k weapon damage last year 60k was tough to hit. Even if you were able to reach the same single target, is that fair? Magicka toons have insanely more AOE/cleave damage, along with much better single target, while being ranged and out of danger. Also accompanied by shields that can give u 20k fake health at the click of a button. Stamina toons do less damage, and are forced to be melee. Less survivability with much less damage does not seem right, if anything stamina should have much better damage in all areas considering their squishyness.
Edited by Shadzilla on May 22, 2017 8:13PM0 -
Massive_Stain✭✭✭✭Currently in PVE trials right now, mag sorcs are literally the best possible dps option. They are pulling 59k+ on single target trials bosses, with insanely strong cleave/aoe damage. FROM RANGE... WITH SHIELDS. If you think a 10% nerf to a single ability will bring them down very much, you are incorrect. The best stam players in the world struggle to try and breach 50k single target, with horrible cleave and about 70% of the aoe that mag toons pull, IN MELEE WITHOUT SHIELDS. ZOS if you do not nerf sorcs more, along with magicka dps toons in general, stamina will continue to be non existent in competitive end game trials. A simple change in caltrops is not changing enough.
This is downright hilarious. I see a massive amount of replies saying stop the nerfs and buff the other 3 classes to sorcs level. Take a minute and think, thats not going to happen... Zos has spent how much time/resources nerfing the other 3 classes? While mag sorcs remain untouched and have been clearly over performing since the 1 Tamriel patch. If you are DPSing any trial, or PVE content, if you are not running a mag sorc you are handicapping yourself. Its as simple as that. Zos wants nerfs, I want balance. I do not wanna see 6-8 mag sorcs needed for top tier competitive trial scores, with maybe a couple mag dks for chains. I would like to see relatively equal top DPS capabilities for all 5 classes, MAGICKA AND STAMINA... Is that going to happen? No, not with the current dev team we have. I can still make forum posts and QQ about it though, and hope one day it might happen.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/334157/stamina-dps-in-pve-fixed-for-morrowind#latest
Wrobel in a zos meeting about balance :
Nerfed shields from 20 sec to 6 sec, nerfed lightning splash damage, nerfed infallible mage set with ancient knowledge change, nerfed overload, nerfed dark conversion, nerfed necropotence, nerfed sorc pet, nerfed streak, nerfed crystal frags, and finally, nerfed burning spell weave.PC: CP 1200+ DroDest, Bringer of light
PS4: CP 1500+ Dro Dest, SoTN, Bringer of light, CragHMs, EoF, IR, TTT
Xbox: CP 450 Fungal Grotto 1 HM1 -
Shadzilla✭✭✭✭✭
✭Massive_Stain wrote: »Currently in PVE trials right now, mag sorcs are literally the best possible dps option. They are pulling 59k+ on single target trials bosses, with insanely strong cleave/aoe damage. FROM RANGE... WITH SHIELDS. If you think a 10% nerf to a single ability will bring them down very much, you are incorrect. The best stam players in the world struggle to try and breach 50k single target, with horrible cleave and about 70% of the aoe that mag toons pull, IN MELEE WITHOUT SHIELDS. ZOS if you do not nerf sorcs more, along with magicka dps toons in general, stamina will continue to be non existent in competitive end game trials. A simple change in caltrops is not changing enough.
This is downright hilarious. I see a massive amount of replies saying stop the nerfs and buff the other 3 classes to sorcs level. Take a minute and think, thats not going to happen... Zos has spent how much time/resources nerfing the other 3 classes? While mag sorcs remain untouched and have been clearly over performing since the 1 Tamriel patch. If you are DPSing any trial, or PVE content, if you are not running a mag sorc you are handicapping yourself. Its as simple as that. Zos wants nerfs, I want balance. I do not wanna see 6-8 mag sorcs needed for top tier competitive trial scores, with maybe a couple mag dks for chains. I would like to see relatively equal top DPS capabilities for all 5 classes, MAGICKA AND STAMINA... Is that going to happen? No, not with the current dev team we have. I can still make forum posts and QQ about it though, and hope one day it might happen.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/334157/stamina-dps-in-pve-fixed-for-morrowind#latest
Wrobel in a zos meeting about balance :
Nerfed shields from 20 sec to 6 sec, nerfed lightning splash damage, nerfed infallible mage set with ancient knowledge change, nerfed overload, nerfed dark conversion, nerfed necropotence, nerfed sorc pet, nerfed streak, nerfed crystal frags, and finally, nerfed burning spell weave.
AND STILL ARE WAAAY OVERPOWERED. Which really shows you how insane they were before. Agree?3 -
Ghost-Shot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No one uses shields in trials that's a good way for you to be moved from the a team to the c team. But I do use harness magic on my Templar
LOL you have clearly never been on the A team. Harness magicka or hardened ward are basically mandatory for vMoL hard mode, thats why very few stam builds do it.0 -
darthsithis✭✭✭There is the true fact that sorcs are op.
Do you really feel that frags are the issue tho? I'm honestly interested in your opinion on what should be done to balance/restore class equality?Message me if you want to do trials/dungeons, or need a trading guild! Flawless conqueror magsorc with a bad sense of armor fashion.0 -
Shadzilla✭✭✭✭✭
✭darthsithis wrote: »There is the true fact that sorcs are op.
Do you really feel that frags are the issue tho? I'm honestly interested in your opinion on what should be done to balance/restore class equality?
Ummm off the top of my head lets see... Pets need to be nerfed pretty hard, along with liquid lightning. The fact that both blockade and liquid lightning get like 8k+ single target is just ridik, even more so in trash fights. I would also like to see something done with shields, like an increase in duration up to 12 seconds but can be crit and cannot stack.Edited by Shadzilla on May 22, 2017 11:12PM0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Yo_Donno Anytime you wanna post that 55k+ single target stamina parse from last patch feel free, I am very interested to see. No one I have talked to or know has seen that high of a stam parse from homestead or 1 tam.
Stam this patch is pretty good0 -
Artis✭✭✭✭✭
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If it is wrong for sorcs to be the best at dps - for sake of argument let's say that is true now and for Morrowind initial release - then why is it ok for Templars best at heal, DK for tanking, etc?
In order to be consistent, if you are in the camp asking for sorcs to be nerfed (again) because of being better at dps, then shouldn't you also be calling for further nerfs to Templar and Warden as healers, DK as tank, etc?
Can you elaborate on your "etc."? We have sorcs best in dps, DK best in tanking and temps best in healing. That's all.
And now everyone would suck, genius!The nerf would bring sorcs in line with other classes, which would fix the problem of sorcs being overrepresented. Now - there's just no reason to play something but a sorc.
I have stam DD and doing really well with him, but, I prefer to have a deal with magical DD (feel the difference: not with Sorcs, but with the any MAGICAL DD) in the group. Because stamina just suck. And you all are asking here to get down sorcs to the stamina lvl. How about NO, huh?
Sorcs already nerfed as hell, especially in the PVP, so FO.
How would everyone suck if everyone would be the same? You're making 0 sense. Everyone would be equally strong and as strong as intended. Someone can suck only compared to someone who's overperforming which wouldn't be the case anymore.
So uhh, sorcs and scrubs are liberals? Really? Bringing in more biases doesn't help prove that your argument for nerfing sorcs is unbiased.
Yeah, you know, that whining crowd. Let's not take from anyone, let's just give. My argument for nerfing sorcs is logical period. You have 4 numbers: 5 5 5 10, what's easier and more logical to equalize them - add 5 to 3 numbers or take 5 from the last number?
I don't care if it was a sorc, NB, dk or whatever. A nail that sticks up gets hammered down.1 -
frostbreeze✭✭✭Ohh no! Sorc got nerfed for the first time
. GOOD. Nerf them more.
First time? Streak cost increase nerf,shields strength reduced in cyro,shield duration reduced by 400%,dark deal channel increased. PvP sorc has been getting nerf since 1.0
On the other hand we have pet buffs every patch.Like any decent pvp player uses them
And to answer the OP.Pet sorc DOES need a nerf for pve cause the damage of pet builds is ridiculous.Nerf that and stop trying to force sorcs to use pets.Useless in PvP,clearly OP in PvE.Seems easy what needs to be done imo.Remove pets completely and give us new skills
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CaptainBeerDude✭✭✭✭✭frostbreeze wrote: »Ohh no! Sorc got nerfed for the first time . GOOD. Nerf them more.
First time? Streak cost increase nerf,shields strength reduced in cyro,shield duration reduced by 400%,dark deal channel increased. PvP sorc has been getting nerf since 1.0
On the other hand we have pet buffs every patch.Like any decent pvp player uses them
And to answer the OP.Pet sorc DOES need a nerf for pve cause the damage of pet builds is ridiculous.Nerf that and stop trying to force sorcs to use pets.Useless in PvP,clearly OP in PvE.Seems easy what needs to be done imo.Remove pets completely and give us new skills
Pets have been either nerfed or bugged in the Morrowind patch. Prayers answered?0 -
Prospero_ESO✭✭✭✭Lol all these sorc nerds. Why are you raging ? How long is the sorc in this ridiculous state ? What has happened since then ? Nothing more or less, Sorc still ultra high damage, mobility and survivabiliry so calm down pls. As long as wrobel is sitting where he is now you will be safe. He will never do somerhing that really hurts his honey bunny. If sometimes in the future a designer will be in charge that is honestly interested in balance, you will be in trouble of course ^^.1
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CaptainBeerDude✭✭✭✭✭Prospero_ESO wrote: »Lol all these sorc nerds. Why are you raging ? How long is the sorc in this ridiculous state ? What has happened since then ? Nothing more or less, Sorc still ultra high damage, mobility and survivabiliry so calm down pls. As long as wrobel is sitting where he is now you will be safe. He will never do somerhing that really hurts his honey bunny. If sometimes in the future a designer will be in charge that is honestly interested in balance, you will be in trouble of course ^^.
Sorcs weren't always meta DD's. I think they have a lower learning curve on their skills though, which means that any changes to the gameplay are easier to adjust to.
Queue people looking for the 'best' build to load up a sorc...0 -
Galwylin✭✭✭✭✭Nerfs are not a good thing to ask for from a team that doesn't know the difference between sledgehammer and fine tuning.0 -
Shadzilla✭✭✭✭✭
✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »
Totally agree, all I see completing vet halls are stam dps toons. Same with top dsa and vma scores. Stamina dps is good this patch I don't even see a mag dps in trials anymore.0 -
Shadzilla✭✭✭✭✭
✭How are mag sorcs doing now? Did all the complaints bring them down towards everyone else? Have not been able to play much lately.0 -
Diminish✭✭✭✭✭
✭Anyone else remember the times when people use to QQ because magicka builds were straight up ASS, and stam builds ruled all? Now they QQ because magicka builds are too strong. I say nerf the entire damn game and give everyone a refund because that is the only way people will stop crying nerf on these forums.
By the way, I am extremely upset that my DK is not able to heal as good as my Templar. Nerf Templar abilities please...Edited by Diminish on July 26, 2017 1:19AM2 -
Vercingetorix✭✭✭✭✭
✭Vercingetorix wrote: »Sorcerers are the masters of the arcane. They draw power directly from Aetherius and have the strongest connection to it. In addition, they also can more easily call upon the forces of Oblivion to defeat their foes. They command the strongest element found in nature - lightning, energy completely unchained and unpredictable, yet a sorcerer is the calm eye of a great and powerful storm, able to channel that raw energy into attacks.
So, here's my question: Why would any other class be allowed to be stronger than a sorcerer?
For the sake of class balance...?
The classes are balanced:
- Sorcerers are the strongest DPS.
- Dragonknights are the strongest Tanks.
- Templars are the strongest Healers.
- Nightblades are the strongest PvP DPS.
- Wardens are the strongest PvP Support.
All classes can do any role outside their specialty, but will be less effective when doing so. When all classes are viable for all roles to varying degrees, that's balance. They may not be balanced how YOU want, but the classes are balanced. Also, ZoS made a statement in the PTS forums earlier this week outlining the final upcoming changes for combat balance for the next DLC: Sorcerers were not included.“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”0 -
Rikkof✭✭✭How are mag sorcs doing now? Did all the complaints bring them down towards everyone else? Have not been able to play much lately.
No man, no changes, SORCS are still free kills for pvp nightblades, but as you can see in patch not4es, NB are getting nerfed (thankfully) so maybe sorcs will have a chance now at competing
Keep bumping your thread after next patch hits and tell us more about sorcs
, meanwhile we will be busy celebrating teh stamina -nb nerfs
Have a nice day, man1 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭How are mag sorcs doing now? Did all the complaints bring them down towards everyone else? Have not been able to play much lately.
No man, no changes, SORCS are still free kills for pvp nightblades, but as you can see in patch not4es, NB are getting nerfed (thankfully) so maybe sorcs will have a chance now at competing
Keep bumping your thread after next patch hits and tell us more about sorcs, meanwhile we will be busy celebrating teh stamina -nb nerfs
Have a nice day, man
Care to link/quote where in the patch notes any class-specific nerfs stamina nightblades are getting?? As far as I know only some sets are getting nerfed not stamina nightblades.0 -
Shadzilla✭✭✭✭✭
✭How are mag sorcs doing now? Did all the complaints bring them down towards everyone else? Have not been able to play much lately.
No man, no changes, SORCS are still free kills for pvp nightblades, but as you can see in patch not4es, NB are getting nerfed (thankfully) so maybe sorcs will have a chance now at competing
Keep bumping your thread after next patch hits and tell us more about sorcs, meanwhile we will be busy celebrating teh stamina -nb nerfs
Have a nice day, man
This is an old thread, I have not been playing much the last few months was just wondering how mag sorcs were doing.0
