Crystal Frag Nerf Not Enough

Shadzilla

Currently in PVE trials right now, mag sorcs are literally the best possible dps option. They are pulling 59k+ on single target trials bosses, with insanely strong cleave/aoe damage. FROM RANGE... WITH SHIELDS. If you think a 10% nerf to a single ability will bring them down very much, you are incorrect. The best stam players in the world struggle to try and breach 50k single target, with horrible cleave and about 70% of the aoe that mag toons pull, IN MELEE WITHOUT SHIELDS. ZOS if you do not nerf sorcs more, along with magicka dps toons in general, stamina will continue to be non existent in competitive end game trials. A simple change in caltrops is not changing enough.

This is downright hilarious. I see a massive amount of replies saying stop the nerfs and buff the other 3 classes to sorcs level. Take a minute and think, thats not going to happen... Zos has spent how much time/resources nerfing the other 3 classes? While mag sorcs remain untouched and have been clearly over performing since the 1 Tamriel patch. If you are DPSing any trial, or PVE content, if you are not running a mag sorc you are handicapping yourself. Its as simple as that. Zos wants nerfs, I want balance. I do not wanna see 6-8 mag sorcs needed for top tier competitive trial scores, with maybe a couple mag dks for chains. I would like to see relatively equal top DPS capabilities for all 5 classes, MAGICKA AND STAMINA... Is that going to happen? No, not with the current dev team we have. I can still make forum posts and QQ about it though, and hope one day it might happen.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/334157/stamina-dps-in-pve-fixed-for-morrowind#latest

Wrobel in a zos meeting about balance :

DHale

No one uses shields in trials that's a good way for you to be moved from the a team to the c team. But I do use harness magic on my Templar

Tryxus

Is this a Nerf Sorc or a Buff Stamina thread? I mean, this is a very subtle thread here after all, so it's kinda hard to see which it is...

flguy147ub17_ESO

That nerf was more PVP focused i believe. People constantly complain about Sorcs burst in PVP. So that is what they nerfed.

Ch4mpTW

Here's a suggestion. Stop the nerfs, and asking for things to get nerfed. Pause for a moment. Think for a few moments. Then proceed with asking that things get buffed to match whatever class or skill is currently overperforming in your opinion. Just a suggestion, however.

Edit: Fixed spelling errors.

jlboozer

Stop asking for nerfs...do you just want us to just walk around hitting things with broom and bucket?

Buffler

DHale wrote: »

No one uses shields in trials that's a good way for you to be moved from the a team to the c team. But I do use harness magic on my Templar

Lol well done

Father_X_Zombie

They should have nerfed our DoT potential then, this wont change ***

kadar

DHale wrote: »

No one uses shields in trials that's a good way for you to be moved from the a team to the c team. But I do use harness magic on my Templar

Oh my...

Marabornwingrion

Shadzilla wrote: »

Currently in PVE trials right now, mag sorcs are literally the best possible dps option. They are pulling 55k+ on single target trials bosses, with insanely strong cleave/aoe damage. FROM RANGE... WITH SHIELDS. If you think a 10% nerf to a single ability will bring them down very much, you are incorrect. The best stam players in the world struggle to try and breach 50k single target, with horrible cleave and about 70% of the aoe that mag toons pull, IN MELEE WITHOUT SHIELDS. ZOS if you do not nerf sorcs more, along with magicka dps toons in general, stamina will continue to be non existent in competitive end game trials. A simple change in caltrops is not changing enough.

You know that majority of the player base are not people from top of leaderboards, right?

stevepdodson_ESO888

DHale wrote: »

No one uses shields in trials that's a good way for you to be moved from the a team to the c team. But I do use harness magic on my Templar

i can't tell if this is a troll..you do realise that Harness Magicka is a shield right?

Wreuntzylla

flguy147ub17_ESO wrote: »

That nerf was more PVP focused i believe. People constantly complain about Sorcs burst in PVP. So that is what they nerfed.

Isn't the +20% applied to a reflect?

kadar

Astrid_V wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

Currently in PVE trials right now, mag sorcs are literally the best possible dps option. They are pulling 55k+ on single target trials bosses, with insanely strong cleave/aoe damage. FROM RANGE... WITH SHIELDS. If you think a 10% nerf to a single ability will bring them down very much, you are incorrect. The best stam players in the world struggle to try and breach 50k single target, with horrible cleave and about 70% of the aoe that mag toons pull, IN MELEE WITHOUT SHIELDS. ZOS if you do not nerf sorcs more, along with magicka dps toons in general, stamina will continue to be non existent in competitive end game trials. A simple change in caltrops is not changing enough.

You know that majority of the player base are not people from top of leaderboards, right?

Class balance is discussed (for PVE) in terms of end-game Trials because literally anything you throw together can be successful for all other types of content. Hence we use things like leaderboards to help gauge a classes true power level.

sneakymitchell

Shadzilla wrote: »

Currently in PVE trials right now, mag sorcs are literally the best possible dps option. They are pulling 55k+ on single target trials bosses, with insanely strong cleave/aoe damage. FROM RANGE... WITH SHIELDS. If you think a 10% nerf to a single ability will bring them down very much, you are incorrect. The best stam players in the world struggle to try and breach 50k single target, with horrible cleave and about 70% of the aoe that mag toons pull, IN MELEE WITHOUT SHIELDS. ZOS if you do not nerf sorcs more, along with magicka dps toons in general, stamina will continue to be non existent in competitive end game trials. A simple change in caltrops is not changing enough.

Don't worry next patch magic users will have a hard time substaining in which skills res need to dark deal more. Stam players won't get a hard nerf cause u are losing 15% and such cost reduction (with the cp change which will be 20 to 30%) but stam builds can get resources faster for doing couple heavy attacks. Magic users had to cast a long heavy attack charge up. So um yea mag sorcs are still getting a nerf in their DPS little. Stam u just need to heavy attack time to time in rotations. Magic users need to heavy attack more often than a stam user. I don't know if u play on PTS but I got the feeling it's like that.

s7732425ub17_ESO

DHale wrote: »

No one uses shields in trials that's a good way for you to be moved from the a team to the c team. But I do use harness magic on my Templar

It's fine you guys. This guy has obviously never done hard content or gotten no deaths on any Vet Trials or hardmodes.

s7732425ub17_ESO

The problem with Sorcs is that a pet adds 10k DPS (in parses where people are pulling 45k+). Without this free 10k dps, Sorcs would be on par with all the other classes.

But no. People complained and complained about how pets were useless. So they were buffed to an extreme. And now ZOS is nerfing something completely unrelated... nice.

Sinkas

Ohh no! Sorc got nerfed for the first time . GOOD. Nerf them more.

Sn1per0

Am I the only one that feels like people are over reacting to a VERY SMALL damage nerf to a skill that already does loads of damage?
Come on now, this is why we can't have nice things.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

The problem with Sorcs is that a pet adds 10k DPS (in parses where people are pulling 45k+). Without this free 10k dps, Sorcs would be on par with all the other classes.

But no. People complained and complained about how pets were useless. So they were buffed to an extreme. And now ZOS is nerfing something completely unrelated... nice.

Just pointing out that the damage aint free. It takes 3 slots on your skill bar and 2 casts in your rotatoin, both of which cost magic.

Sorcs are admittedly overtuned at the moment. Their cleave damage is out of line, admittedly, mostly because of the pet, and you are right that nerfing frags will do very little to bring any balance back. If anything, it will simply reinforce the new heavy attack meta coming soon with morrowind. Frags is the most skillful and dynamic aspect of the sorc rotation in PVE, and decent chance it wont make our bars next patch.

That being said, every class can pull 50k single target. I think you should have to post a video of yourself pulling 50k plus on a class before you call it OP and ask for a nerf. 99.9999% of people aint pulling 50k+ single target on any class. We have one guy post a 70K AOE parse on one fight one time, and the internet loses their minds.

Joy_Division

QAM must have Rekt the OP with his yolo build.

Shader_Shibes

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Here's a suggestion. Stop the nerfs, and asking for things to get nerfed. Pause for a moment. Think for a few moments. Then proceed with asking that things get buffed to match whatever class or skill is currently overperorming in your opinion. Just a suggestion, however.

This, so sick of this cancerous nerf mentality from the devs and players.

Vosital

It really is not even close to being enough. Hopefully they nerf other aspects of Sorc, the ones that make them really broken like Hardened Ward, Dark Exchange, and Curse.

If the patch goes out and this is all they do, it's going to be nothing but Sorcs in PvP and endgame PvE DPS.

Fodore

Buff other classes instead of nerf strong ones

Dantaria

Shadzilla wrote: »

ZOS if you do not nerf sorcs more, along with magicka dps toons in general, stamina will continue to be non existent in competitive end game trials. A simple change in caltrops is not changing enough.

Hey. Stop right there, criminal scum

I'm like... totally with you when we talk about buff stamina. But nerfs? Enough. Enough of it for everyone.

Shadzilla wrote: »

The best stam players in the world struggle to try and breach 50k single target, with horrible cleave and about 70% of the aoe that mag toons pull, IN MELEE WITHOUT SHIELDS.

FIRST WORLD PROBLEMS I'm maining magsorc, it's my first character, very much beloved.

55k? 50k? I'd like to make it to 30k Granted, I'm close on 400CP, but will I hit... even 40k on 600CP? I already feel that nope.

Get down from your high vet HM MoL horse for a sec, ok? Get down on earth, to us, little mortals... you know... the majority of the playerbase

Sorcs are not magical "300CP Dro-Mathra Destroyer" button. For simple mortals it never was and hardly will be. Nerf class to the ground on the basis of super high-end endgame performance of 0.0001% playerbase? Yeah. Very reasonable.

Also. Which shields? Like... Harness Magicka? The one every magchar can use? Noone stacks Harness and Ward in PvE, the hell you need it for? And Ward is situational. Sorc has additional class-shield, yeah, ok. So what? Sometimes slightly more convenient then Harness. Still could use available-for-everyone-Harness.

I can agree when it comes to petsorcs. Volatile + Necropotence + Daedric Prey is insane, so tuning Volatile down a bit seems reasonable. But not nerfing whole class. We are not that OP in comparison with everything, when it comes to "casual-semi-hard-core" environment.

Leave us alone. Leave everyone, every class, alone.

Enough with this "nerf" madness. We need buffs, not nerfs.

Everything is already dire as it is.

SanderBuraas

Vosital wrote: »

It really is not even close to being enough. Hopefully they nerf other aspects of Sorc, the ones that make them really broken like Hardened Ward, Dark Exchange, and Curse.

If the patch goes out and this is all they do, it's going to be nothing but Sorcs in PvP and endgame PvE DPS.

@Vosital

If shield stacking is too much for you in PvP, use the Shield Breaker set. Dark Exchange can be interrupted. Curse is overpowered?

MehrunesFlagon

you nerf sorcs.you bring your entire group down.

t3hdubzy

At this point its useless asking for buffs to other classes. The purpose was to bring things down across the board in order to rid the game of cheese builds. You cant magically buff everything again and not undo that?


Which makes more sense, buff 3 to fix 1 or nerf 1 to fix 3? Just saying i dont think its gonna happen

I just think people are going about this all wrong, we need sorc experts to give feedback based on actual testing in order to find where changes need to take place.

All in all, things needed to change, theres no question about that but there are some fundamental changes to classes happening and sorc was still even with the 10 percent reduction to one bonus, pretty much left alone.

Compare that to the damage reduction from stealth to a nightblade, siphoning strikes, and battle roar helping hands for a dk, and you still have a lot of desparity.

FearlessOne_2014

t3hdubzy wrote: »

At this point its useless asking for buffs to other classes. The purpose was to bring things down across the board in order to rid the game of cheese builds. You cant magically buff everything again and not undo that?


Which makes more sense, buff 3 to fix 1 or nerf 1 to fix 3? Just saying i dont think its gonna happen

I just think people are going about this all wrong, we need sorc experts to give feedback based on actual testing in order to find where changes need to take place.

All in all, things needed to change, theres no question about that but there are some fundamental changes to classes happening and sorc was still even with the 10 percent reduction to one bonus, pretty much left alone.

Compare that to the damage reduction from stealth to a nightblade, siphoning strikes, and battle roar helping hands for a dk, and you still have a lot of desparity.

But won't proc set cheese be better off in Heavy Attack META? Just saying that free damage from a light or heavy attack and boom 3 proc set going off at once. They nerfed everything but the stuff that was the real problem. Lol oh well guess we will have to adapt once more.

SydneyGrey

People asking for nerfs is what got us the current Nerfapocolypse we have looming in the horizon.

Jamascus

Vosital wrote: »

It really is not even close to being enough. Hopefully they nerf other aspects of Sorc, the ones that make them really broken like Hardened Ward, Dark Exchange, and Curse.

If the patch goes out and this is all they do, it's going to be nothing but Sorcs in PvP and endgame PvE DPS.

What would you have them do to nerf Hardened Ward more? It was already nerfed to be 6 seconds which is inline with other shields that don't scale off max health and annulment will, depending on morph, absorb similar damage or a little less damage but return magicka and is available to everyone.

Funkopotamus

Yes by all means lets nerf sorcs back to the Cretaceous period. Stam Sorcs have had the spotlight for a LONG time. Why not let magsorc shine for a bit?