Crystal Frag Nerf Not Enough

Jacozilla

Starless06 wrote: »

OP, If you only are looking at sorc dps you are correct they are now and will be the best dps in the MW patch.

However sorc will never be as effective at vtrial tanking as DK or healing as templar. DPS is the role ZOS has made them excellent at. NB and Warden aren't worth mentioning.

If they were nerfed so all other classes are balanced with respect to dps. Would they have healing and tanking buffed?

Even with the heavy DK and Templar nerfs they will be be the best at their respective roles in MW.

Excellent point. I agree.

If it is wrong for sorcs to be the best at dps - for sake of argument let's say that is true now and for Morrowind initial release - then why is it ok for Templars best at heal, DK for tanking, etc?

In order to be consistent, if you are in the camp asking for sorcs to be nerfed (again) because of being better at dps, then shouldn't you also be calling for further nerfs to Templar and Warden as healers, DK as tank, etc?

jameson71

Artis wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

Currently in PVE trials right now, mag sorcs are literally the best possible dps option. They are pulling 55k+ on single target trials bosses, with insanely strong cleave/aoe damage. FROM RANGE... WITH SHIELDS. If you think a 10% nerf to a single ability will bring them down very much, you are incorrect. The best stam players in the world struggle to try and breach 50k single target, with horrible cleave and about 70% of the aoe that mag toons pull, IN MELEE WITHOUT SHIELDS. ZOS if you do not nerf sorcs more, along with magicka dps toons in general, stamina will continue to be non existent in competitive end game trials. A simple change in caltrops is not changing enough.

Good sir, may I ask: HOW THE F NERF OF ANYTHING WOULD FIX THAT PROBLEM?

Or you are just a jelly kid, who crying " woaaaa, they are bettar! nerf zis ZO plxplx!"?

Or maybe you would just grow up and start asking for BUFFS to make a real competition?

The nerf would bring sorcs in line with other classes, which would fix the problem of sorcs being overrepresented. Now - there's just no reason to play something but a sorc.

Asking for buffs is not growing up. That, in fact, is more like a jelly kid crying "woaaa they are bettar! buff everyone else plox". When one nail is sticking out - you hammer it, instead of pulling all other nails to be sticking out as well.

ofSunhold wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

ofSunhold wrote: »

Wow. I invite you to PUG a dungeon and tell that struggling-not-to-die, struggling-to-shield, saved-by-raw-damage magsorc DD that it's just dandy if his damage drops "by a small margin." (As defined by you, of course.) No big, little nobody, suck it up. Because trials, man. TRIALS!

Wow you only care about yourself and about you being able to pull high numbers with your sorc.

Your struggling sorc OUTPERFORMS BY FAR any other class played by a player with the same skill. So don't try to guild trip anyone or make us feel bad about that sorc. Bad players should struggle - overcoming that struggle is how they become stronger. But look at how conveniently you are forgetting that that same player would struggle FAR FAR MORE if he tried to play another class.

So why again should he deal more damage than a player of the same skill (or even himself) on another class?

Maybe he shouldn't, although there are valid arguments there as well. I'm not arguing there should be no changes, I'm pointing out that what's true at CP 600 with BIS gear isn't necessarily relevant to the lion's share of people playing this game.

And I'm not sure people who haven't hung out with level 30s running FG1 lately get to make any calls about how easy it is for them to do.

It is completely unreasonable to blithely assert that the cure for highest-tier players' woes is to smack everybody, including every level 3 sorc on Khenarthi's Roost, particularly with the lovely loss of sustain they're about to eat. Again, hitting them much harder than anybody whose obsession is trials.

If you're feeling guilty - not my intention - maybe you should consider that for a moment.

And I'm not the sorc in this scenario - I don't PUG dungeons on DPS characters, there are too many DDs trying to get in with the finder as it is. I'm the templar keeping that kid alive while he learns to play. He is, and he will, and for all I know in a couple of months he'll be fantastic, but I vote we stop kicking his feet out from under him during that process.

Trials and trials teams seem to have issues. Then adjust them, not everybody. Maybe they could make a new rule: to be eligible for the leader boards, no more than 4 of any one class. [Next week: must have at least two of each class.] There you go, a new constraint just for you. It'll be great, and it's even possible we'll stop hearing about how you have no choices.

Not likely. But possible.

You won't smack that level 3 sorc. Low level players won't even feel the changes that much. But once again - quit all this essay-writing please. I mean, sure, keep farming your agrees from sorcs and scrubs and other liberals, and get to the point of the issue.

You quoted me and commented on what I said, but you failed to address the main question that I asked.

Why should that low-level struggling kid playing a sorc outperfrom a low-level struggling kid playing a NB? Why should we care about keeping him safe if that discriminates others? The goal is NOT for that kid to hit certain numbers, the goal if for ALL kids to perform reasonably close, which is not the case right now.

And I'm sorry, but the last paragraph makes no sense. Why would you fight symptoms instead of fighting the cause of those symptoms? So you want to just force players to play a certain way? That won't make anyone happy. People playing underperforming classes don't want to be carried. We want to be equals. And people playing sorcs dont' want to be forced to group with underperforming burden.

So uhh, sorcs and scrubs are liberals? Really? Bringing in more biases doesn't help prove that your argument for nerfing sorcs is unbiased.

Biro123

I just think its funny that liberal is kind of like an insult in the US

Nelson_Rebel

Biro123 wrote: »

I just think its funny that liberal is kind of like an insult in the US

Because it generally is now. liberalism isn't what it used to be where the goal was supposed to be about protecting basic rights of people.


Now it's all about pushing their agendas on people and if anyone disagrees they must be racist or bigots if any argument or facts are provided that don't support their facist dogmatics.

SilverWF

Artis wrote: »

The nerf would bring sorcs in line with other classes, which would fix the problem of sorcs being overrepresented. Now - there's just no reason to play something but a sorc.

And now everyone would suck, genius!
I have stam DD and doing really well with him, but, I prefer to have a deal with magical DD (feel the difference: not with Sorcs, but with the any MAGICAL DD) in the group. Because stamina just suck. And you all are asking here to get down sorcs to the stamina lvl. How about NO, huh?

Sorcs already nerfed as hell, especially in the PVP, so FO.

Shadzilla

Jacozilla wrote: »

Starless06 wrote: »

OP, If you only are looking at sorc dps you are correct they are now and will be the best dps in the MW patch.

However sorc will never be as effective at vtrial tanking as DK or healing as templar. DPS is the role ZOS has made them excellent at. NB and Warden aren't worth mentioning.

If they were nerfed so all other classes are balanced with respect to dps. Would they have healing and tanking buffed?

Even with the heavy DK and Templar nerfs they will be be the best at their respective roles in MW.

Excellent point. I agree.

If it is wrong for sorcs to be the best at dps - for sake of argument let's say that is true now and for Morrowind initial release - then why is it ok for Templars best at heal, DK for tanking, etc?

In order to be consistent, if you are in the camp asking for sorcs to be nerfed (again) because of being better at dps, then shouldn't you also be calling for further nerfs to Templar and Warden as healers, DK as tank, etc?

Coming from how absolutely ridiculous your previous posts in this thread have been, I am actually rather impressed with a bit of this idea. Alright so dks are meta tanks, and templars are meta healers. Warden I'm not gonna break NDA about. Sorcs are meta dps, by a pretty substantial amount, while ranged not having to be melee. NB's are...... TRASH?!?! They can kinda cloak sometimes in pvp. Wait nevermind there are 83 things that pull them out of cloak which shouldn't, but the game is broken. They can gank in cyro though right? Uhhhh yea we should nerf the damage from stealth though, keep NB's from doing the one thing in this game they were actually successful with. Seriously, nightblades have never been at or even near the top of any trials dps. Zos knows, they acknowledge from time to time. Yea still waiting on that grim focus rework @ZOS_RichLambert that you promised!!! I like this idea, buff nightblades dps up to the level of mag sorcs, and the 2 can reign supreme atop the dps charts. Right now its mag sorc > mag dk > mag plar > everything else, we should fix that order.

Shadzilla

SilverWF wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

The nerf would bring sorcs in line with other classes, which would fix the problem of sorcs being overrepresented. Now - there's just no reason to play something but a sorc.

And now everyone would suck, genius!
I have stam DD and doing really well with him, but, I prefer to have a deal with magical DD (feel the difference: not with Sorcs, but with the any MAGICAL DD) in the group. Because stamina just suck. And you all are asking here to get down sorcs to the stamina lvl. How about NO, huh?

Sorcs already nerfed as hell, especially in the PVP, so FO.

LOL, if you think sorcs are "nerfed as hell" you are very mistaken. If you do bad dps in trials, or get rekt in cyro, try another class. You will do much worse, than you did on a mag sorc.

Vosital

Jacozilla wrote: »

Starless06 wrote: »

OP, If you only are looking at sorc dps you are correct they are now and will be the best dps in the MW patch.

However sorc will never be as effective at vtrial tanking as DK or healing as templar. DPS is the role ZOS has made them excellent at. NB and Warden aren't worth mentioning.

If they were nerfed so all other classes are balanced with respect to dps. Would they have healing and tanking buffed?

Even with the heavy DK and Templar nerfs they will be be the best at their respective roles in MW.

Excellent point. I agree.

If it is wrong for sorcs to be the best at dps - for sake of argument let's say that is true now and for Morrowind initial release - then why is it ok for Templars best at heal, DK for tanking, etc?

In order to be consistent, if you are in the camp asking for sorcs to be nerfed (again) because of being better at dps, then shouldn't you also be calling for further nerfs to Templar and Warden as healers, DK as tank, etc?

The fact that they are the best DPS isn't the problem. Hell, in PvE it's whatever.

The problem is that they are absolute monsters in PvP right now. They have the most damage, most mobility, and the most survivability.

Shields, Harness Magicka resource return, Lich, Pirate Skeleton, Bastion, and Dark Exchange all need to be heavily nerfed for this class to have any resemblance of balance in PvP.

Tonturri

Vosital wrote: »

Jacozilla wrote: »

Starless06 wrote: »

OP, If you only are looking at sorc dps you are correct they are now and will be the best dps in the MW patch.

However sorc will never be as effective at vtrial tanking as DK or healing as templar. DPS is the role ZOS has made them excellent at. NB and Warden aren't worth mentioning.

If they were nerfed so all other classes are balanced with respect to dps. Would they have healing and tanking buffed?

Even with the heavy DK and Templar nerfs they will be be the best at their respective roles in MW.

Excellent point. I agree.

If it is wrong for sorcs to be the best at dps - for sake of argument let's say that is true now and for Morrowind initial release - then why is it ok for Templars best at heal, DK for tanking, etc?

In order to be consistent, if you are in the camp asking for sorcs to be nerfed (again) because of being better at dps, then shouldn't you also be calling for further nerfs to Templar and Warden as healers, DK as tank, etc?

The fact that they are the best DPS isn't the problem. Hell, in PvE it's whatever.

The problem is that they are absolute monsters in PvP right now. They have the most damage, most mobility, and the most survivability.

Shields, Harness Magicka resource return, Lich, Pirate Skeleton, Bastion, and Dark Exchange all need to be heavily nerfed for this class to have any resemblance of balance in PvP.

Shields: Be more specific?
Harness Mag resource return: Eh, agrees here. While this will effect other classes, I do think an ability that has such a massive difference when fighting mag vs. mag compared to mag vs. stam is a bad balancing/ability design strategy.
Lich: Anyone can use this, and unlike Pirate skeleton Sorcs don't somehow get a lot more out of it than other classes. I disagree here
Pirate Skeleton: Agreed. Sorcs get all of the benefits while suffering a minimal amount - or no - drawback that other classes would
Bastion: So heals can get both outgoing and incoming buffs, plus racial passives and whatever you get from gear, etc, but shields can't get one tiny CP passive? Disagree here.
Dark Exchange: Make it consume resources when interrupted and see what happens. Maybe make the cast a little longer -> buff it a little to compensate, proportional to the increased cast time.

Let's please try to avoid advocated for 'heavy nerfs', and instead nerf a little and see what happens.

Shadzilla

Vosital wrote: »

Jacozilla wrote: »

Starless06 wrote: »

OP, If you only are looking at sorc dps you are correct they are now and will be the best dps in the MW patch.

However sorc will never be as effective at vtrial tanking as DK or healing as templar. DPS is the role ZOS has made them excellent at. NB and Warden aren't worth mentioning.

If they were nerfed so all other classes are balanced with respect to dps. Would they have healing and tanking buffed?

Even with the heavy DK and Templar nerfs they will be be the best at their respective roles in MW.

Excellent point. I agree.

If it is wrong for sorcs to be the best at dps - for sake of argument let's say that is true now and for Morrowind initial release - then why is it ok for Templars best at heal, DK for tanking, etc?

In order to be consistent, if you are in the camp asking for sorcs to be nerfed (again) because of being better at dps, then shouldn't you also be calling for further nerfs to Templar and Warden as healers, DK as tank, etc?

The fact that they are the best DPS isn't the problem. Hell, in PvE it's whatever.

The problem is that they are absolute monsters in PvP right now. They have the most damage, most mobility, and the most survivability.

Shields, Harness Magicka resource return, Lich, Pirate Skeleton, Bastion, and Dark Exchange all need to be heavily nerfed for this class to have any resemblance of balance in PvP.

Agree about the PVP part, but they are massively insane in PVE as well. Both aspects need to be brought down.

Yo_Donno

Shadzilla wrote: »

...They are pulling 55k+ on single target trials bosses, with insanely strong cleave/aoe damage.

lol with the burning spell weave/moondancer build? No, they aren't. Video or it didn't happen. I could believe this in a full raid buff situation worm/spc/ele drain/alkosh in which case, every class is doing that well.

I do agree that mag sorcs are the best dps BUT that is because they have very good utility (range,shields) while still pulling relatively high DPS. Stam single target is actually stronger than mag single target period. Stating that top stamina players are struggling to hit the same cap as mag sorcs under the same circumstances is simply not true (and insulting to good stam players who have exceeded this DPS number).

Yo_Donno

Edited for double post mistake

alexkdd99

Kalante wrote: »

Eyesinthedrk wrote: »

Let me see if I've got this right.

Mag sorcs were trash in pvp after the shield nerf. You guys created a pet build meta (that no one wanted) by giving mag sorcs necro. Now that mag sorcs are OP you fix this by nerfing all sorcs. Even the ones that don't use necro rather than just nerfing The necro set that cause the problems in the first place

Did I get that right?

Shields were never nerfed. Only bad players who forgot how to shield every two to four seconds like a good sorc should where nerfed.

Lmao, shields were never nerfed? Are you kidding me? Duration from 20 seconds to 6. Nearly a 75% nerf to duration. Casing shields cost resources. Go on somewhere with that shields were never nerfed nonsense.

So a good sorc with 20 seconds worth of shields would reapply them every 2 to 4 seconds and waste resources? Are you serious with this post?

darthsithis

stam warden can apparently pull 70k dps...

but even if sorc can do the awesome stuff op pointed out, why is that bad? Sorcs cant do that stuff without healers to help them through lunar phase or you know...TANKS to hold aggro so we dont get one shot through our "op wards." Everybody is valuable.

Seriously consider this- if ranged does its job, it will rez the dot stacking insanity of the melee builds and their insane burst will down the stuff that liquid lightning and scamp or pulse of frags can't. when the ghost in AA splits, not many a magsorc finish before a stam dk, stamsorc, or nightblade stacking 3000 extra vMA single target dot weapon damage.

NOW- if sorc dps hypothetically went down due to many different factors, it would hurt you too. Last boss of AA needs stam on the mage while OUR WARDS pop the bubbles that would kill yall. Nerf those wards and the tank might need to walk the axes around (obviously not a good plan)...so leave wards in.. Killing the skeleton things underground in vDSA with an eye of the storm saves the group from wasting time and lets stam dps upstairs nuke the real janocet for that high score. Our scamp, liquid lightning, wall of elements, and crystal frags hit so hard because of templars wearing spell power cure and infal as they cast power of the light on it. Our wards mean we can RESURRECT despite some mechanics (gusts in vHRC) which is the dps' job in the first place, but has many times saved a wipe.

Last but not least, the best dps I know are not only magsorcs. They are players who know their class well and know mechanics. 600k vMA on a stamblade with no wards lol, those are the squishiest dudes--- yet no sorc can do that yet afaik

So to end this dissertation of mine, buff what is lacking, not nerf what is rocking. Magsorcs are not the be all end all, and stam saves the day just as often. Like when the mage pulls up a reflection, sometimes you need stam help because everybody magic based is all over the map and cant woe grothdar lava whip...leaving pulse, liquid, and frags lol? no u gotta burn that down quick.

I could go on, but some of the best ppl I've played with are stam based, and they can certainly pull more dps than a lot of sorcs. Stam is great, it is harder, but the good people are unbelievable. Sorcs have wards but using them means you're doing it wrong in a trial (sorta) (tanks use echoing vigor and trust healers then voila no ward and more deeps)...

Anyways, we should be happy that this game always changes and sorcs will suck and stamplars will one day rule and wardens are king then magblades are meta...its how the game works. So work with it!

LegacyDM

Pwnyridah wrote: »

STOP THE NERFS BUFF STAM DPS CLASSES!

Right...cause Stam sorcs need a buff. Eyes roll.

Betsararie

I think it is enough.

Leave sorc alone.

A buff to some of the other classes would be appropriate but there is no need to nerf sorc into the ground.

Shadzilla

Yo_Donno wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

...They are pulling 55k+ on single target trials bosses, with insanely strong cleave/aoe damage.

lol with the burning spell weave/moondancer build? No, they aren't. Video or it didn't happen. I could believe this in a full raid buff situation worm/spc/ele drain/alkosh in which case, every class is doing that well.

I do agree that mag sorcs are the best dps BUT that is because they have very good utility (range,shields) while still pulling relatively high DPS. Stam single target is actually stronger than mag single target period. Stating that top stamina players are struggling to hit the same cap as mag sorcs under the same circumstances is simply not true (and insulting to good stam players who have exceeded this DPS number).

You sir are very incorrect. Mag sorc has BY FAR, the highest single target/aoe/cleave dps in this game. At range and with shields... Video or it didn't happen? Alright I will link one for you. I have a couple buddies who have hit 62k+ on Ra Kotu, were not recording though... The highest stamina single target parse I have seen in a trial this patch is 51 flat. BIT OF A DIFFERENCE? Even though they are forced to be melee, and do not have access to a shield that gives them 20k fake health at the click of a button. Please sir, prove me wrong and show me a video of a stamina build pulling more than 55k single target in a trial. You have used the line "Video or it didn't happen", I will now post a couple videos and await your response. I am very excited to see a stamina parse that exceeds 55k single target on a trial boss. You are about to bless the entire eso community and I very much look forward to your response @Yo_Donno
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foAkqmVv4Fg
Even though this parse is 57k it still reinforces the point. There isn't a random reason top scores are only achieved with 6-7 mag sorc toons as DPS. The fact that you think any class can hit 55k single target is not true. Trying to say stamina builds can pull more than that is even more ridiculous. I really do hope you respond with some video links, and I look forward to it.

zaria

Shadzilla wrote: »

bryanhaas wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Here's a suggestion. Stop the nerfs, and asking for things to get nerfed. Pause for a moment. Think for a few moments. Then proceed with asking that things get buffed to match whatever class or skill is currently overperforming in your opinion. Just a suggestion, however.

Edit: Fixed spelling errors.

+100

This is downright hilarious. I see a massive amount of replies saying stop the nerfs and buff the other 3 classes to sorcs level. Take a minute and think, thats not going to happen... Zos has spent how much time/resources nerfing the other 3 classes? While mag sorcs remain untouched and have been clearly over performing since the 1 Tamriel patch.

How long time and resources nerfing, not long it seems pretty random.
So you nerf sorcerer to the ground, now DK is top, let nerf them, templar, then nightblade, then sorcerer again.
Soon overland content start to get challenging

Shadzilla

darthsithis wrote: »

stam warden can apparently pull 70k dps...

but even if sorc can do the awesome stuff op pointed out, why is that bad? Sorcs cant do that stuff without healers to help them through lunar phase or you know...TANKS to hold aggro so we dont get one shot through our "op wards." Everybody is valuable.

Seriously consider this- if ranged does its job, it will rez the dot stacking insanity of the melee builds and their insane burst will down the stuff that liquid lightning and scamp or pulse of frags can't. when the ghost in AA splits, not many a magsorc finish before a stam dk, stamsorc, or nightblade stacking 3000 extra vMA single target dot weapon damage.

NOW- if sorc dps hypothetically went down due to many different factors, it would hurt you too. Last boss of AA needs stam on the mage while OUR WARDS pop the bubbles that would kill yall. Nerf those wards and the tank might need to walk the axes around (obviously not a good plan)...so leave wards in.. Killing the skeleton things underground in vDSA with an eye of the storm saves the group from wasting time and lets stam dps upstairs nuke the real janocet for that high score. Our scamp, liquid lightning, wall of elements, and crystal frags hit so hard because of templars wearing spell power cure and infal as they cast power of the light on it. Our wards mean we can RESURRECT despite some mechanics (gusts in vHRC) which is the dps' job in the first place, but has many times saved a wipe.

Last but not least, the best dps I know are not only magsorcs. They are players who know their class well and know mechanics. 600k vMA on a stamblade with no wards lol, those are the squishiest dudes--- yet no sorc can do that yet afaik

So to end this dissertation of mine, buff what is lacking, not nerf what is rocking. Magsorcs are not the be all end all, and stam saves the day just as often. Like when the mage pulls up a reflection, sometimes you need stam help because everybody magic based is all over the map and cant woe grothdar lava whip...leaving pulse, liquid, and frags lol? no u gotta burn that down quick.

I could go on, but some of the best ppl I've played with are stam based, and they can certainly pull more dps than a lot of sorcs. Stam is great, it is harder, but the good people are unbelievable. Sorcs have wards but using them means you're doing it wrong in a trial (sorta) (tanks use echoing vigor and trust healers then voila no ward and more deeps)...

Anyways, we should be happy that this game always changes and sorcs will suck and stamplars will one day rule and wardens are king then magblades are meta...its how the game works. So work with it!

Uhhh that 3000 vma dot weapon damage was severely nerfed to 2000 back like 8 months ago? Stamblades cannot get 600k on vMA anymore since homestead dropped. Top DSA and all trials scores are all done with all mag dps... Please do some research before adding you opinion, considering everything you are saying is incorrect. If you are interested in joining up with @Yo_Donno in trying to find a stamina parse that exceeds 55k single target that would be fantastic. No one has seen one this patch.

hedna123b14_ESO

Shadzilla wrote: »

Yo_Donno wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

...They are pulling 55k+ on single target trials bosses, with insanely strong cleave/aoe damage.

lol with the burning spell weave/moondancer build? No, they aren't. Video or it didn't happen. I could believe this in a full raid buff situation worm/spc/ele drain/alkosh in which case, every class is doing that well.

I do agree that mag sorcs are the best dps BUT that is because they have very good utility (range,shields) while still pulling relatively high DPS. Stam single target is actually stronger than mag single target period. Stating that top stamina players are struggling to hit the same cap as mag sorcs under the same circumstances is simply not true (and insulting to good stam players who have exceeded this DPS number).

You sir are very incorrect. Mag sorc has BY FAR, the highest single target/aoe/cleave dps in this game. At range and with shields... Video or it didn't happen? Alright I will link one for you. I have a couple buddies who have hit 62k+ on Ra Kotu, were not recording though... The highest stamina single target parse I have seen in a trial this patch is 51 flat. BIT OF A DIFFERENCE? Even though they are forced to be melee, and do not have access to a shield that gives them 20k fake health at the click of a button. Please sir, prove me wrong and show me a video of a stamina build pulling more than 55k single target in a trial. You have used the line "Video or it didn't happen", I will now post a couple videos and await your response. I am very excited to see a stamina parse that exceeds 55k single target on a trial boss. You are about to bless the entire eso community and I very much look forward to your response @Yo_Donno
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foAkqmVv4Fg
Even though this parse is 57k it still reinforces the point. There isn't a random reason top scores are only achieved with 6-7 mag sorc toons as DPS. The fact that you think any class can hit 55k single target is not true. Trying to say stamina builds can pull more than that is even more ridiculous. I really do hope you respond with some video links, and I look forward to it.

To be fair, thats one video of one guy hitting those numbers....i think thats the video everyone uses to say sorcs are OP. They are indeed very good, but I wouldnt use this video alone....outliers are never good for proof. Honestly if they changed vMA to be like it used to be 3k wep damage, that would be enough for all stam save stamplar to be back to be on par with magicka 100% of the time..and with the changes to caltrops and blade cloak as well as the nerf to lightning staff damage it seems like their AoE damage may closing in.

aLi3nZ

Neighbor wrote: »

Kalante wrote: »

Eyesinthedrk wrote: »

Let me see if I've got this right.

Mag sorcs were trash in pvp after the shield nerf. You guys created a pet build meta (that no one wanted) by giving mag sorcs necro. Now that mag sorcs are OP you fix this by nerfing all sorcs. Even the ones that don't use necro rather than just nerfing The necro set that cause the problems in the first place

Did I get that right?

Shields were never nerfed. Only bad players who forgot how to shield every two to four seconds like a good sorc should where nerfed.

Exactly. When someone is competent, shields are still insanely broken.

tbh I have see

Trinity_Is_My_Name wrote: »

My main toon is a Mag Sorc and I've been playing it for 2 years with thousands of hours on it. Can I hit 55K Single Target? LOLOLOLOLOL! NO! I'm lucky if I even hit 30K for a few seconds. These players in Trials are using end game Trial gear and Maelstrom weapons with hundreds of hours of practice to achieve their DPS and....they are doing it while being buffed by multiple support toons in Trials. If you think it is easy to achieve single target DPS of 55K I suggest you try it on a test dummy. Make a Mag Sorc if you need to and see for yourself. A friend of mine mains a Mag Sorc in Trials and he is only able to reach 38K DPS on a test dummy every once in a while. His single target DPS is usually around 35K.

So stop with the nerf threads. The game is going to **** because of all the people calling for nerfs continuously!

Yes, so true. I have yet to come across any sorc that can get close to the 50k range on single target. I play vet trials like vmol and pretty sure most if not all in the 3 trials guilds I run with do less then 40k. I main a sorc and only do 30k on my pet build and 25k without pets. Bsw/necro fire / lightning. Surely I can improve but it's definitely not easy getting the numbers people mention here.

BohnT

aLi3nZ wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Kalante wrote: »

Eyesinthedrk wrote: »

Let me see if I've got this right.

Mag sorcs were trash in pvp after the shield nerf. You guys created a pet build meta (that no one wanted) by giving mag sorcs necro. Now that mag sorcs are OP you fix this by nerfing all sorcs. Even the ones that don't use necro rather than just nerfing The necro set that cause the problems in the first place

Did I get that right?

Shields were never nerfed. Only bad players who forgot how to shield every two to four seconds like a good sorc should where nerfed.

Exactly. When someone is competent, shields are still insanely broken.

tbh I have see

Trinity_Is_My_Name wrote: »

My main toon is a Mag Sorc and I've been playing it for 2 years with thousands of hours on it. Can I hit 55K Single Target? LOLOLOLOLOL! NO! I'm lucky if I even hit 30K for a few seconds. These players in Trials are using end game Trial gear and Maelstrom weapons with hundreds of hours of practice to achieve their DPS and....they are doing it while being buffed by multiple support toons in Trials. If you think it is easy to achieve single target DPS of 55K I suggest you try it on a test dummy. Make a Mag Sorc if you need to and see for yourself. A friend of mine mains a Mag Sorc in Trials and he is only able to reach 38K DPS on a test dummy every once in a while. His single target DPS is usually around 35K.

So stop with the nerf threads. The game is going to **** because of all the people calling for nerfs continuously!

Yes, so true. I have yet to come across any sorc that can get close to the 50k range on single target. I play vet trials like vmol and pretty sure most if not all in the 3 trials guilds I run with do less then 40k. I main a sorc and only do 30k on my pet build and 25k without pets. Bsw/necro fire / lightning. Surely I can improve but it's definitely not easy getting the numbers people mention here.

The problem is that sorc can achieve these dps parses, no other class can do this with the same survivability and with the effort you have to put in to get these results. Yes it takes time to get these parses but that's a l2p issue. For other classes it is impossible to hit these numbers, it doesn't matter how good you are, a sorc will be always better and this is where things need to change.

lunalitetempler

Nerf dark teal!

darthsithis

A good magsorc only weaves to fill time between the ultrapowered DoT's. frags aren't the contributing problem in the first place (your reasearch should have shown it is the liquid lightning , ilambris, and wall of elements btw ), wards let us resurrect people easier and increase the chances of saving a wipe or surviving a unforseen situation, so why nerf that stuff instead of again, asking for stam to be equally sought after? Why nerf a frag when you can buff a sword? Maybe make stam DoT's cheaper but not wards weaker? maybe liquid lightning could empower light attacks or something, much like spell power cure buffs us. There's much better ideas than 'nerf it its strong.'



advocate that balance strives towards making all classes equal and unique instead of similar and weak.

darthsithis

Shadzilla wrote: »

Uhhh that 3000 vma dot weapon damage was severely nerfed to 2000 back like 8 months ago? Stamblades cannot get 600k on vMA anymore since homestead dropped. Top DSA and all trials scores are all done with all mag dps... Please do some research before adding you opinion, considering everything you are saying is incorrect. If you are interested in joining up with @Yo_Donno in trying to find a stamina parse that exceeds 55k single target that would be fantastic. No one has seen one this patch.

my mistake on the dagger enchant.

Here's a clip to illustrate how a parse might be not representative of the value a stam character has on crucial, group-wiping mechanics.

Varlariel in vet AA splits into mirrors that have 790,581 health each. You know that usually one stam character and a strong mag character either each do one themselves, or double up on two of them. The tank punctures, healer infal debuffs, and since my dps with raid buffs is 55k according to skeleton test/the internet, and the add took ~ 7 seconds to die, i did 385,000 damage (55,000 x 7). This means that my partner did 405,581. 405,581/7=57940 dps. @Yo_Donno its not a real parse, but im just trying to prove a point that stam melts stuff fast and many factors (including sorcs being jsut broken strong- but other stuff too) go into why I disagree that stam is useless, never in trials or leaderboards, and sorcs need frags reduced because op had a small sample size.

and not all trials scores are done with only magicka dps, but you have to take me for my word on that one, sorry =/

anyways ive said my peace haha, u didnt have to be rude though man. Mag is the strongest sustained dps, but nerfing wards and frags even harder on top of sustain and pets etc is to me as my defending magsorcs/not endorsing nerf-it-culture probably feels to you. Just enjoy the game man, they are gonna change it so much so often anyways lol.

Vosital

I love how so much of the discussion revolves around PvE parses. Even if the pet builds get nerfed, Sorcs are still going to be overpowered as hell in PvP. Which is really the crux of the problem.

darthsithis

Vosital wrote: »

I love how so much of the discussion revolves around PvE parses. Even if the pet builds get nerfed, Sorcs are still going to be overpowered as hell in PvP. Which is really the crux of the problem.

oh haha didnt know we were talking about that.

yeah pets and 17 ppl eots bombing a guy at a flag is lame i guess lol.

Shadzilla

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

Yo_Donno wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

...They are pulling 55k+ on single target trials bosses, with insanely strong cleave/aoe damage.

lol with the burning spell weave/moondancer build? No, they aren't. Video or it didn't happen. I could believe this in a full raid buff situation worm/spc/ele drain/alkosh in which case, every class is doing that well.

I do agree that mag sorcs are the best dps BUT that is because they have very good utility (range,shields) while still pulling relatively high DPS. Stam single target is actually stronger than mag single target period. Stating that top stamina players are struggling to hit the same cap as mag sorcs under the same circumstances is simply not true (and insulting to good stam players who have exceeded this DPS number).

You sir are very incorrect. Mag sorc has BY FAR, the highest single target/aoe/cleave dps in this game. At range and with shields... Video or it didn't happen? Alright I will link one for you. I have a couple buddies who have hit 62k+ on Ra Kotu, were not recording though... The highest stamina single target parse I have seen in a trial this patch is 51 flat. BIT OF A DIFFERENCE? Even though they are forced to be melee, and do not have access to a shield that gives them 20k fake health at the click of a button. Please sir, prove me wrong and show me a video of a stamina build pulling more than 55k single target in a trial. You have used the line "Video or it didn't happen", I will now post a couple videos and await your response. I am very excited to see a stamina parse that exceeds 55k single target on a trial boss. You are about to bless the entire eso community and I very much look forward to your response @Yo_Donno
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foAkqmVv4Fg
Even though this parse is 57k it still reinforces the point. There isn't a random reason top scores are only achieved with 6-7 mag sorc toons as DPS. The fact that you think any class can hit 55k single target is not true. Trying to say stamina builds can pull more than that is even more ridiculous. I really do hope you respond with some video links, and I look forward to it.

To be fair, thats one video of one guy hitting those numbers....i think thats the video everyone uses to say sorcs are OP. They are indeed very good, but I wouldnt use this video alone....outliers are never good for proof. Honestly if they changed vMA to be like it used to be 3k wep damage, that would be enough for all stam save stamplar to be back to be on par with magicka 100% of the time..and with the changes to caltrops and blade cloak as well as the nerf to lightning staff damage it seems like their AoE damage may closing in.

To be fair, 57k isn't even that great. There are tons of videos of mag sorc 55k+ single target on fights where tons of mechanics are involved and they lose a lot of time dpsing. I know many people that have hit 60 on the manti. I also know a couple guys who have hit 62k on Ra Kotu in Hel Ra... 60k+ single target while ranged and having shields is just insane... To be fair, buffing vma weapons back to 3k would not even come close to making up for around 10k single target dps. AOE from stamina builds is still not even close to mag toons on the PTS right now. Thanks for the input but I strongly disagree with pretty much every point you have.

Shadzilla

aLi3nZ wrote: »

Neighbor wrote: »

Kalante wrote: »

Eyesinthedrk wrote: »

Let me see if I've got this right.

Mag sorcs were trash in pvp after the shield nerf. You guys created a pet build meta (that no one wanted) by giving mag sorcs necro. Now that mag sorcs are OP you fix this by nerfing all sorcs. Even the ones that don't use necro rather than just nerfing The necro set that cause the problems in the first place

Did I get that right?

Shields were never nerfed. Only bad players who forgot how to shield every two to four seconds like a good sorc should where nerfed.

Exactly. When someone is competent, shields are still insanely broken.

tbh I have see

Trinity_Is_My_Name wrote: »

My main toon is a Mag Sorc and I've been playing it for 2 years with thousands of hours on it. Can I hit 55K Single Target? LOLOLOLOLOL! NO! I'm lucky if I even hit 30K for a few seconds. These players in Trials are using end game Trial gear and Maelstrom weapons with hundreds of hours of practice to achieve their DPS and....they are doing it while being buffed by multiple support toons in Trials. If you think it is easy to achieve single target DPS of 55K I suggest you try it on a test dummy. Make a Mag Sorc if you need to and see for yourself. A friend of mine mains a Mag Sorc in Trials and he is only able to reach 38K DPS on a test dummy every once in a while. His single target DPS is usually around 35K.

So stop with the nerf threads. The game is going to **** because of all the people calling for nerfs continuously!

Yes, so true. I have yet to come across any sorc that can get close to the 50k range on single target. I play vet trials like vmol and pretty sure most if not all in the 3 trials guilds I run with do less then 40k. I main a sorc and only do 30k on my pet build and 25k without pets. Bsw/necro fire / lightning. Surely I can improve but it's definitely not easy getting the numbers people mention here.

This thread focuses on the best parses that can be achieved, across all classes. The only way to get the best consistency is when you take a look at the best possible outcome from all dps possibilities.

hedna123b14_ESO

Shadzilla wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

Yo_Donno wrote: »

Shadzilla wrote: »

...They are pulling 55k+ on single target trials bosses, with insanely strong cleave/aoe damage.

lol with the burning spell weave/moondancer build? No, they aren't. Video or it didn't happen. I could believe this in a full raid buff situation worm/spc/ele drain/alkosh in which case, every class is doing that well.

I do agree that mag sorcs are the best dps BUT that is because they have very good utility (range,shields) while still pulling relatively high DPS. Stam single target is actually stronger than mag single target period. Stating that top stamina players are struggling to hit the same cap as mag sorcs under the same circumstances is simply not true (and insulting to good stam players who have exceeded this DPS number).

You sir are very incorrect. Mag sorc has BY FAR, the highest single target/aoe/cleave dps in this game. At range and with shields... Video or it didn't happen? Alright I will link one for you. I have a couple buddies who have hit 62k+ on Ra Kotu, were not recording though... The highest stamina single target parse I have seen in a trial this patch is 51 flat. BIT OF A DIFFERENCE? Even though they are forced to be melee, and do not have access to a shield that gives them 20k fake health at the click of a button. Please sir, prove me wrong and show me a video of a stamina build pulling more than 55k single target in a trial. You have used the line "Video or it didn't happen", I will now post a couple videos and await your response. I am very excited to see a stamina parse that exceeds 55k single target on a trial boss. You are about to bless the entire eso community and I very much look forward to your response @Yo_Donno
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foAkqmVv4Fg
Even though this parse is 57k it still reinforces the point. There isn't a random reason top scores are only achieved with 6-7 mag sorc toons as DPS. The fact that you think any class can hit 55k single target is not true. Trying to say stamina builds can pull more than that is even more ridiculous. I really do hope you respond with some video links, and I look forward to it.

To be fair, thats one video of one guy hitting those numbers....i think thats the video everyone uses to say sorcs are OP. They are indeed very good, but I wouldnt use this video alone....outliers are never good for proof. Honestly if they changed vMA to be like it used to be 3k wep damage, that would be enough for all stam save stamplar to be back to be on par with magicka 100% of the time..and with the changes to caltrops and blade cloak as well as the nerf to lightning staff damage it seems like their AoE damage may closing in.

To be fair, 57k isn't even that great. There are tons of videos of mag sorc 55k+ single target on fights where tons of mechanics are involved and they lose a lot of time dpsing. I know many people that have hit 60 on the manti. I also know a couple guys who have hit 62k on Ra Kotu in Hel Ra... 60k+ single target while ranged and having shields is just insane... To be fair, buffing vma weapons back to 3k would not even come close to making up for around 10k single target dps. AOE from stamina builds is still not even close to mag toons on the PTS right now. Thanks for the input but I strongly disagree with pretty much every point you have.

Shad...have you seen those 60k+ parses? the fight lasts less than 1.5 minutes...its shorter than a combat dummy dps test...its bursty....