LF mag nb PvE rotation tester to fit in 4th Assassin's Will proc:

NightbladeMechanics · May 2017

I've read some complaints that in standard rotations, ability global cooldowns prevent us from shooting that 4th Assassin's Will proc before the Merciless buff expires.

What if you weaved in a second light attack between abilities once or twice in your rotation? Can you fit in that 4th Will proc? Light attacks are not subject to the same global cooldown as abilities, so I'm wondering if spamming an extra one or two out at some point during the Merciless duration would let you squeeze in that elusive last proc.

Light attack damage is being buffed, and another fat bow proc could result in more dps.

I'm unable to get on PTS to test until the weekend. Would appreciate some parse tests in my stead.

A word about the Strife weaving bug... If you barely press left click for your light attack, it won't fail. Light attacks fail if you linger on the click or do a slight medium attack. Half charged medium attacks fire reliably, but are slow.

Mojmir · May 2017

My tests on pts were on a dummy,I was able to get the 4th but variety of factors (lag,staff animation not firing,bugged icon which I reported) kept it inconsistent. You would need flawless rotation and no disturbances what so ever.please prove me wrong.

NightbladeMechanics · May 2017

Mojmir wrote: »

My tests on pts were on a dummy,I was able to get the 4th but variety of factors (lag,staff animation not firing,bugged icon which I reported) kept it inconsistent. You would need flawless rotation and no disturbances what so ever.please prove me wrong.

This is good to hear. I wonder how dps would be affected by slipping in some extra light attacks to increase reliability, or even by pushing in several extras in order to get 5 Will procs.

Mojmir · May 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

My tests on pts were on a dummy,I was able to get the 4th but variety of factors (lag,staff animation not firing,bugged icon which I reported) kept it inconsistent. You would need flawless rotation and no disturbances what so ever.please prove me wrong.

This is good to hear. I wonder how dps would be affected by slipping in some extra light attacks to increase reliability, or even by pushing in several extras in order to get 5 Will procs.

As i states in the other thread and I know you and I have gone back and forth (your street cred is good with me)Lol
It honestly shouldn't have increased to 5 attacks.we need this skill to be on point due to its nature.

NightbladeMechanics · May 2017

Mojmir wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

My tests on pts were on a dummy,I was able to get the 4th but variety of factors (lag,staff animation not firing,bugged icon which I reported) kept it inconsistent. You would need flawless rotation and no disturbances what so ever.please prove me wrong.

This is good to hear. I wonder how dps would be affected by slipping in some extra light attacks to increase reliability, or even by pushing in several extras in order to get 5 Will procs.

As i states in the other thread and I know you and I have gone back and forth (your street cred is good with me)Lol
It honestly shouldn't have increased to 5 attacks.we need this skill to be on point due to its nature.

The added light attack was definitely unnecessary in PvP. Not sure about PvE. That's part of why I'm asking the rest of you to test. I haven't done competitive PvE since One Tamriel's release.

Mojmir · May 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

My tests on pts were on a dummy,I was able to get the 4th but variety of factors (lag,staff animation not firing,bugged icon which I reported) kept it inconsistent. You would need flawless rotation and no disturbances what so ever.please prove me wrong.

This is good to hear. I wonder how dps would be affected by slipping in some extra light attacks to increase reliability, or even by pushing in several extras in order to get 5 Will procs.

As i states in the other thread and I know you and I have gone back and forth (your street cred is good with me)Lol
It honestly shouldn't have increased to 5 attacks.we need this skill to be on point due to its nature.

The added light attack was definitely unnecessary in PvP. Not sure about PvE. That's part of why I'm asking the rest of you to test. I haven't done competitive PvE since One Tamriel's release.

just did some tests on world bosses running solo, had the proc one time and i missed it by a fraction a second and im not sure if its the icon bugging on me again. compounded this with any uncontrollable variants(lag,etc) AND whatever situations within the game(boss mechanics,sustain,etc) im still going with it not being possible. need more testers for sure.

Ashamray · May 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

I've read some complaints that in standard rotations, ability global cooldowns prevent us from shooting that 4th Assassin's Will proc before the Merciless buff expires.

What if you weaved in a second light attack between abilities once or twice in your rotation? Can you fit in that 4th Will proc? Light attacks are not subject to the same global cooldown as abilities, so I'm wondering if spamming an extra one or two out at some point during the Merciless duration would let you squeeze in that elusive last proc.

Light attack damage is being buffed, and another fat bow proc could result in more dps.

I'm unable to get on PTS to test until the weekend. Would appreciate some parse tests in my stead.

A word about the Strife weaving bug... If you barely press left click for your light attack, it won't fail. Light attacks fail if you linger on the click or do a slight medium attack. Half charged medium attacks fire reliably, but are slow.

Hmm. I usually press my buttons pretty hard ;D
That's why I prefer PvE'ing with Force pulse, less problems with light attacks. But in PvP, Arenas or just in groups without healer Funnel health is needed, not Pulse. Damn, fix Strife, Zenimax.

s7732425ub17_ESO · May 2017

So basically 4 procs is possible in super ideal conditions. But, in all real situations, you'll only be getting 3 procs.

HuawaSepp · May 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

I've read some complaints that in standard rotations, ability global cooldowns prevent us from shooting that 4th Assassin's Will proc before the Merciless buff expires.

What if you weaved in a second light attack between abilities once or twice in your rotation? Can you fit in that 4th Will proc? Light attacks are not subject to the same global cooldown as abilities, so I'm wondering if spamming an extra one or two out at some point during the Merciless duration would let you squeeze in that elusive last proc.

Light attack damage is being buffed, and another fat bow proc could result in more dps.

I'm unable to get on PTS to test until the weekend. Would appreciate some parse tests in my stead.

A word about the Strife weaving bug... If you barely press left click for your light attack, it won't fail. Light attacks fail if you linger on the click or do a slight medium attack. Half charged medium attacks fire reliably, but are slow.

Testing finished.
Posted it here again:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/344737/grim-focus-bugged/p1?new=1

F7sus4 · May 2017

Making this skill last 24s would solve all problems with rotations fitting in its timing. Easy and simple.

NightbladeMechanics · May 2017

F7sus4 wrote: »

Making this skill last 24s would solve all problems with rotations fitting in its timing. Easy and simple.

The duration is honestly arbitrary. At 24 seconds, people could just ask for 3 more seconds to accommodate that 5th proc that is so close. Who ever said ZOS intended for us to get a 4th proc on PTS to begin with? I simply ask how dps is affected by force-accommodating it with an extra light attack or two in your weaving.

I would have preferred ZOS left Grim Focus at 4 light attacks per proc, but procs fired after the first without recasting the buff deal 20% less damage. That would give PvEers their desired buff without screwing over PvPers.

Capt_Morgan · May 2017

HuawaSepp wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

I've read some complaints that in standard rotations, ability global cooldowns prevent us from shooting that 4th Assassin's Will proc before the Merciless buff expires.

What if you weaved in a second light attack between abilities once or twice in your rotation? Can you fit in that 4th Will proc? Light attacks are not subject to the same global cooldown as abilities, so I'm wondering if spamming an extra one or two out at some point during the Merciless duration would let you squeeze in that elusive last proc.

Light attack damage is being buffed, and another fat bow proc could result in more dps.

I'm unable to get on PTS to test until the weekend. Would appreciate some parse tests in my stead.

A word about the Strife weaving bug... If you barely press left click for your light attack, it won't fail. Light attacks fail if you linger on the click or do a slight medium attack. Half charged medium attacks fire reliably, but are slow.

Testing finished.
Posted it here again:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/344737/grim-focus-bugged/p1?new=1

Would you mind copy pasting here so those without beta invite can see?

HuawaSepp · May 2017

Capt_Morgan wrote: »

HuawaSepp wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

I've read some complaints that in standard rotations, ability global cooldowns prevent us from shooting that 4th Assassin's Will proc before the Merciless buff expires.

What if you weaved in a second light attack between abilities once or twice in your rotation? Can you fit in that 4th Will proc? Light attacks are not subject to the same global cooldown as abilities, so I'm wondering if spamming an extra one or two out at some point during the Merciless duration would let you squeeze in that elusive last proc.

Light attack damage is being buffed, and another fat bow proc could result in more dps.

I'm unable to get on PTS to test until the weekend. Would appreciate some parse tests in my stead.

A word about the Strife weaving bug... If you barely press left click for your light attack, it won't fail. Light attacks fail if you linger on the click or do a slight medium attack. Half charged medium attacks fire reliably, but are slow.

Testing finished.
Posted it here again:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/344737/grim-focus-bugged/p1?new=1

Would you mind copy pasting here so those without beta invite can see?

isn't this stuff under NDA?
I could post it here, but I don't know if I am allowed to.
Another solution is that someone else just gives you the video link.

Capt_Morgan · May 2017

HuawaSepp wrote: »

Capt_Morgan wrote: »

HuawaSepp wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

I've read some complaints that in standard rotations, ability global cooldowns prevent us from shooting that 4th Assassin's Will proc before the Merciless buff expires.

What if you weaved in a second light attack between abilities once or twice in your rotation? Can you fit in that 4th Will proc? Light attacks are not subject to the same global cooldown as abilities, so I'm wondering if spamming an extra one or two out at some point during the Merciless duration would let you squeeze in that elusive last proc.

Light attack damage is being buffed, and another fat bow proc could result in more dps.

I'm unable to get on PTS to test until the weekend. Would appreciate some parse tests in my stead.

A word about the Strife weaving bug... If you barely press left click for your light attack, it won't fail. Light attacks fail if you linger on the click or do a slight medium attack. Half charged medium attacks fire reliably, but are slow.

Testing finished.
Posted it here again:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/344737/grim-focus-bugged/p1?new=1

Would you mind copy pasting here so those without beta invite can see?

isn't this stuff under NDA?
I could post it here, but I don't know if I am allowed to.
Another solution is that someone else just gives you the video link.

It should be allowed as long as it isn't including warden, story, trials, or battlegrounds. All discussion of existing four classes has been allowed.

CavalryPK · May 2017

I will get on PTS today and let you know.

F7sus4 · May 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

F7sus4 wrote: »

Making this skill last 24s would solve all problems with rotations fitting in its timing. Easy and simple.

The duration is honestly arbitrary. At 24 seconds, people could just ask for 3 more seconds to accommodate that 5th proc that is so close.

No. It isn't. Did you even read the topic about how magNB rotation fits into the 20s Merciless? It's either 3 perfectly executed full DPS rotations (with still less than 1s before 3rd proc and basically no mistakes) or forced 4 procs with double-light attacking which is DPS loss. In both scenarios 22-24s Merciless would help greatly. Otherwise we're getting even more irregular and clunky rotation and previous recast-after-proccing is simply nothing compared to it.

It would be good if some forum warriors actually played PTS to get more insight themselves instead of repeating some hazy "conclusions" from random vids.

HuawaSepp · May 2017

Capt_Morgan wrote: »

HuawaSepp wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

I've read some complaints that in standard rotations, ability global cooldowns prevent us from shooting that 4th Assassin's Will proc before the Merciless buff expires.

What if you weaved in a second light attack between abilities once or twice in your rotation? Can you fit in that 4th Will proc? Light attacks are not subject to the same global cooldown as abilities, so I'm wondering if spamming an extra one or two out at some point during the Merciless duration would let you squeeze in that elusive last proc.

Light attack damage is being buffed, and another fat bow proc could result in more dps.

I'm unable to get on PTS to test until the weekend. Would appreciate some parse tests in my stead.

A word about the Strife weaving bug... If you barely press left click for your light attack, it won't fail. Light attacks fail if you linger on the click or do a slight medium attack. Half charged medium attacks fire reliably, but are slow.

Testing finished.
Posted it here again:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/344737/grim-focus-bugged/p1?new=1

Would you mind copy pasting here so those without beta invite can see?

isn't this stuff under NDA?
I could post it here, but I don't know if I am allowed to

Capt_Morgan wrote: »

HuawaSepp wrote: »

Capt_Morgan wrote: »

HuawaSepp wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

I've read some complaints that in standard rotations, ability global cooldowns prevent us from shooting that 4th Assassin's Will proc before the Merciless buff expires.

What if you weaved in a second light attack between abilities once or twice in your rotation? Can you fit in that 4th Will proc? Light attacks are not subject to the same global cooldown as abilities, so I'm wondering if spamming an extra one or two out at some point during the Merciless duration would let you squeeze in that elusive last proc.

Light attack damage is being buffed, and another fat bow proc could result in more dps.

I'm unable to get on PTS to test until the weekend. Would appreciate some parse tests in my stead.

A word about the Strife weaving bug... If you barely press left click for your light attack, it won't fail. Light attacks fail if you linger on the click or do a slight medium attack. Half charged medium attacks fire reliably, but are slow.

Testing finished.
Posted it here again:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/344737/grim-focus-bugged/p1?new=1

Would you mind copy pasting here so those without beta invite can see?

isn't this stuff under NDA?
I could post it here, but I don't know if I am allowed to.
Another solution is that someone else just gives you the video link.

It should be allowed as long as it isn't including warden, story, trials, or battlegrounds. All discussion of existing four classes has been allowed.

Went through Ginas posts and yeah it shouldn't be against NDA, if not please delete.

That video shows that it is not possible to use the Spectral Bow with normal weaving after 5 light attacks.

https://youtu.be/nmf_pjcwMHY

This video shows that it is only possible to use the Spectral Bow four times in 20 sec if you wait a short time after the 5th LA and use four additional LAs. (On laggy PTS, so maybe only 2 on live)

https://youtu.be/OLGzjX6Vj5w

NightbladeMechanics · May 2017

F7sus4 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

F7sus4 wrote: »

Making this skill last 24s would solve all problems with rotations fitting in its timing. Easy and simple.

The duration is honestly arbitrary. At 24 seconds, people could just ask for 3 more seconds to accommodate that 5th proc that is so close.

No. It isn't. Did you even read the topic about how magNB rotation fits into the 20s Merciless? It's either 3 perfectly executed full DPS rotations (with still less than 1s before 3rd proc and basically no mistakes) or forced 4 procs with double-light attacking which is DPS loss. In both scenarios 22-24s Merciless would help greatly. Otherwise we're getting even more irregular and clunky rotation and previous recast-after-proccing is simply nothing compared to it.

It would be good if some forum warriors actually played PTS to get more insight themselves instead of repeating some hazy "conclusions" from random vids.

The entire purpose of this thread is asking others to test something specific for me because I just took on two new accounts at work and can't test anything right now. Your comment contained no testing or argument or reasoning, just a random claim, and my response wasn't talking about rotation timing. I'm not sure what hazy videos you're talking about either. If you have a constructive contribution to make, please do so in a mature manner if you want to be taken seriously. Thanks.

NightbladeMechanics · May 2017

HuawaSepp wrote: »

Capt_Morgan wrote: »

HuawaSepp wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

I've read some complaints that in standard rotations, ability global cooldowns prevent us from shooting that 4th Assassin's Will proc before the Merciless buff expires.

What if you weaved in a second light attack between abilities once or twice in your rotation? Can you fit in that 4th Will proc? Light attacks are not subject to the same global cooldown as abilities, so I'm wondering if spamming an extra one or two out at some point during the Merciless duration would let you squeeze in that elusive last proc.

Light attack damage is being buffed, and another fat bow proc could result in more dps.

I'm unable to get on PTS to test until the weekend. Would appreciate some parse tests in my stead.

A word about the Strife weaving bug... If you barely press left click for your light attack, it won't fail. Light attacks fail if you linger on the click or do a slight medium attack. Half charged medium attacks fire reliably, but are slow.

Testing finished.
Posted it here again:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/344737/grim-focus-bugged/p1?new=1

Would you mind copy pasting here so those without beta invite can see?

isn't this stuff under NDA?
I could post it here, but I don't know if I am allowed to

Capt_Morgan wrote: »

HuawaSepp wrote: »

Capt_Morgan wrote: »

HuawaSepp wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

I've read some complaints that in standard rotations, ability global cooldowns prevent us from shooting that 4th Assassin's Will proc before the Merciless buff expires.

What if you weaved in a second light attack between abilities once or twice in your rotation? Can you fit in that 4th Will proc? Light attacks are not subject to the same global cooldown as abilities, so I'm wondering if spamming an extra one or two out at some point during the Merciless duration would let you squeeze in that elusive last proc.

Light attack damage is being buffed, and another fat bow proc could result in more dps.

I'm unable to get on PTS to test until the weekend. Would appreciate some parse tests in my stead.

A word about the Strife weaving bug... If you barely press left click for your light attack, it won't fail. Light attacks fail if you linger on the click or do a slight medium attack. Half charged medium attacks fire reliably, but are slow.

Testing finished.
Posted it here again:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/344737/grim-focus-bugged/p1?new=1

Would you mind copy pasting here so those without beta invite can see?

isn't this stuff under NDA?
I could post it here, but I don't know if I am allowed to.
Another solution is that someone else just gives you the video link.

It should be allowed as long as it isn't including warden, story, trials, or battlegrounds. All discussion of existing four classes has been allowed.

Went through Ginas posts and yeah it shouldn't be against NDA, if not please delete.

That video shows that it is not possible to use the Spectral Bow with normal weaving after 5 light attacks.
https://youtu.be/nmf_pjcwMHY

This video shows that it is only possible to use the Spectral Bow four times in 20 sec if you wait a short time after the 5th LA and use four additional LAs. (On laggy PTS, so maybe only 2 on live)
https://youtu.be/OLGzjX6Vj5w

Regarding the first video, you need to pause slightly after that fifth light attack before firing the bow. The pause isn't long enough to extend that ability cast past the global cooldown, but it is something you'll have to get used to. Grim Focus works that way on live.

Regarding the second, I take it adding extra light attacks to force the 4th proc is a dps loss?

Asmael · May 2017

I'd ask that to @DerpyShadowz if I were you.

*Sacrifice a derp salmon*

Would almost make me consider using Kena (the set, not you obviously) if you want to use 2 LAs in a row, see if that's somehow sustainable.

HuawaSepp · May 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Regarding the second, I take it adding extra light attacks to force the 4th proc is a dps loss?

You lose the damage of ~1 FP/SS.
So I think if you can sustain light weaving, it is a dps loss.
If you can't, it is a dps gain. (cause you save magicka with this 4th proc rota)

I don't have enough time for further tests too, so i can only assume.

F7sus4 · May 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

The entire purpose of this thread is asking others to test something specific for me because I just took on two new accounts at work and can't test anything right now. Your comment contained no testing or argument or reasoning, just a random claim, and my response wasn't talking about rotation timing.

If you actually read what was linked, you would notice we're talking around test-based responses so far. I'll gladly link it so you can ignore it again with that hurrdurr babble.

Posting "4th procs possible in 20s" with double LAs is lacking common sense. Even though it technically allows more procs, it also lowers DPS output as a whole.

However - there's one possible solution to which this would make a perfect fit...

Asmael wrote: »

Would almost make me consider using Kena (the set, not you obviously) if you want to use 2 LAs in a row, see if that's somehow sustainable.

The same idea already came across my mind. If we simplify the math a bit (skipping LA passives+Worm nerf etc.) - it's +16% cost via CP passive loss and +20% from PTS 3.0.x Kena. This should actually give similar (~3-6% diff) result to +33% cost increase on Live server Kena builds which with proper buff/debuff work are now somewhat sustainable.

Also, I'm pretty sure it wasn't directly intended on ZOS' side, but 2 LAs before proc also guarantee that every single bow proc will be buffed.

Without using Kena - double LA only to make 4th proc possible is still a DPS loss compared to the "classical" rotation and still renders 20s Merciless timing problematic (a bit short depending on external disruption/ping/interrupts etc.) on getting the last proc.

HuawaSepp · May 2017

F7sus4 wrote: »

If we simplify the math a bit (skipping LA passives+Worm nerf etc.) - it's +16% cost via CP passive loss and +20% from PTS 3.0.x Kena. This should actually give similar (~3-6% diff) result to +33% cost increase on Live server Kena builds which with proper buff/debuff work are now somewhat sustainable.

If we simplify math a bit and consider NBs are already using recovery tools like poisons (they are at the break even point) a +20% ressource drain = -20% dmg.
And our biggest ressource pools were Siphoning Attacks and 11 group members using the bubble synergie on cooldown.

I recommend using 5 moondancer with another 5 piece set as ranged magicka NB.
And if you like sustain you can go for 5 MD 3 WP and 2 Grothdar also as meele.