Maintenance for the week of April 6:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
unforeseen consequences of light/heavy attack changes
BigES
✭✭✭✭✭
I honestly don't believe ZoS has a complete and accurate understanding on how significant the changes they plan to implement to light and heavy attacks have on game balance and current build metas.
For magicka characters right now, staves vs. dual swords are in a good place as far as game balance and build diversity. There are merits to choose one over the other. Namely, staves provide the ability light attack weave for extra damage, heavy attack for resources, and offer unique passives under their respective trees (resto, and destro). Dual swords received a slight nerf recently, but the benefit is an extra set item to run an optima front-bar build configuration (5-5-2 - two five piece sets and a two piece monster).
You are putting the final nail in the coffin to dual wielding on a magicka character. Something that went from full meta, has now been completely eliminated.
Instant skills vs. Channeled/Cast-time skills are also getting now left out of balance. Moves like Puncturing Sweeps, Wrecking Blow, or anything with a cast time or channel will start to yield SIGNIFICANTLY lower damage than their instant cast counter-parts.
It could be argued that staves were always intended for magicka characters, and the game should have been balanced as such, but it wasn't. And they never have been. And this was even acknowledged by ZoS on several occasions.
It's this typical last-minute, reactive (not proactive) PTS changes like this is what's the most frustrating. I've reworked my builds constantly throughout the 3+ years I've played this game. But at a certain point, it becomes evident that this will never stop. And game balance isn't a matter of minor adjustments for the greater good, but medications for
For magicka characters right now, staves vs. dual swords are in a good place as far as game balance and build diversity. There are merits to choose one over the other. Namely, staves provide the ability light attack weave for extra damage, heavy attack for resources, and offer unique passives under their respective trees (resto, and destro). Dual swords received a slight nerf recently, but the benefit is an extra set item to run an optima front-bar build configuration (5-5-2 - two five piece sets and a two piece monster).
You are putting the final nail in the coffin to dual wielding on a magicka character. Something that went from full meta, has now been completely eliminated.
Instant skills vs. Channeled/Cast-time skills are also getting now left out of balance. Moves like Puncturing Sweeps, Wrecking Blow, or anything with a cast time or channel will start to yield SIGNIFICANTLY lower damage than their instant cast counter-parts.
It could be argued that staves were always intended for magicka characters, and the game should have been balanced as such, but it wasn't. And they never have been. And this was even acknowledged by ZoS on several occasions.
It's this typical last-minute, reactive (not proactive) PTS changes like this is what's the most frustrating. I've reworked my builds constantly throughout the 3+ years I've played this game. But at a certain point, it becomes evident that this will never stop. And game balance isn't a matter of minor adjustments for the greater good, but medications for
16
-
lunalitetempler✭✭✭✭Who cares about duel wield Magika? What is this sorcery!!!Edited by lunalitetempler on May 13, 2017 7:33PM12
-
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Dual wielding on a magicka character is pretty dumb anyway. One of the most stupid meta's I have ever seen. The swords are just there. You aren't even using them. Lame.Edited by Koensol on May 13, 2017 8:45PM26 -
Marto✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dual Wield meta was a dumb idea to begin with. It's not intuitive to new players, it doesn't make sense thematically, it looks rather odd, and gives you almost zero synergy with Dual Wield passives/actives (Besides the Twin blade and blunt passive).
There's no real reason why it should exist. It doesn't fit with the overall design of magicka builds."According to the calculations of the sages of the Cult of the Ancestor Moth, the batam guar is the cutest creature in all Tamriel"19 -
BigES✭✭✭✭✭Dual Wield meta was a dumb idea to begin with. It's not intuitive to new players, it doesn't make sense thematically, it looks rather odd, and gives you almost zero synergy with Dual Wield passives/actives (Besides the Twin blade and blunt passive).
There's no real reason why it should exist. It doesn't fit with the overall design of magicka builds.
Being able to carry two weapons should not be a stamina exclusive thing. The extra set piece plays an important role in build diversity.Dual wielding on a magicka character is pretty dumb anyway. One of the most stupid meta's I have ever seen. The swords are just there. You aren't even using them. Lame.
Dumb in what way? Having two sword has always existed. Its pivotal to Magicka Templar and Magicka DK builds. There also used to be Magicka Socerers with dual swords, but especially with the resource nerfs, that's also been eliminated.
This change is just a perverted hotfix to try to level out trials dps so that cost reduction build + light weaves will be more in line with full damage build + heavy weaves.... but it causes more issues in the process than it solves. Weaving is a major aspect of the game, you can't just overhaul how it operates at the last minute of a PTS cycle.6 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I guess now only half of the players will DW rather than 2/3. Doesn't sound like a bad change to me.4 -
DisgracefulMind✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I'm actually very disappointed with how DW Magicka specs seem to be getting weeded out. Contrary to how some people have responded in here, DW Magicka Templar is the only thing that has felt completely right for me on my Templar. Yes, I have messed around with staves before, but I really don't enjoy using staves while using sweeps on my Magplar. Feels more clunky, and I'm already clunky because Magplar is just that way. Also, the extra set bonus really offered some neat build options for Magicka builds. Sad if that goes /:Unfortunate magicka warden main.
PC/NA Server
Fairweather Friends
Retired to baby bgs forever. Leave me alone.4 -
runa_gate✭✭✭✭I think the issue is being able to use 5/5/2 sets, not whether it makes sense to carry around swords as a magicka-user.2 -
DisgracefulMind✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭DragonBound wrote: »
Do you play a non-caster magicka build where you're forced into melee? Because people like me may have very, very different opinion than you. It seems pretty "dumb" to me to use my fast hit spears with a staff...maybe this is preference, but I hate staff wielding on Magplar as my main weapon. There are many players like me, as well, who feel the same.Unfortunate magicka warden main.
PC/NA Server
Fairweather Friends
Retired to baby bgs forever. Leave me alone.7 -
DragonBound✭✭✭✭✭DisgracefulMind wrote: »DragonBound wrote: »
Do you play a non-caster magicka build where you're forced into melee? Because people like me may have very, very different opinion than you. It seems pretty "dumb" to me to use my fast hit spears with a staff...maybe this is preference, but I hate staff wielding on Magplar as my main weapon. There are many players like me, as well, who feel the same.
No I do not think summoning a magical weapon is dumb at all it makes more sense then holding two swords you barely use or utilize beyond stats. And I am not sure why you are telling me something I already know, it is just my opinion there is no reason to seek validation.2 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Instant skills vs. Channeled/Cast-time skills are also getting now left out of balance. Moves like Puncturing Sweeps, Wrecking Blow, or anything with a cast time or channel will start to yield SIGNIFICANTLY lower damage than their instant cast counter-parts.
This is an excellent point. Good call and agreed.
PC EU
PvP only5 -
DisgracefulMind✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭DragonBound wrote: »DisgracefulMind wrote: »DragonBound wrote: »
Do you play a non-caster magicka build where you're forced into melee? Because people like me may have very, very different opinion than you. It seems pretty "dumb" to me to use my fast hit spears with a staff...maybe this is preference, but I hate staff wielding on Magplar as my main weapon. There are many players like me, as well, who feel the same.
No I do not think summoning a magical weapon is dumb at all it makes more sense then holding two swords you barely use or utilize beyond stats. And I am not sure why you are telling me something I already know, it is just my opinion there is no reason to seek validation.
Then why are you coming into a thread against a change that doesn't seem to affect you anyways?
There were choices with magicka builds. You could dual wield or use staves. This is going to ruin any sort of choice. That's the problem here.Unfortunate magicka warden main.
PC/NA Server
Fairweather Friends
Retired to baby bgs forever. Leave me alone.5 -
DragonBound✭✭✭✭✭DisgracefulMind wrote: »DragonBound wrote: »DisgracefulMind wrote: »DragonBound wrote: »
Do you play a non-caster magicka build where you're forced into melee? Because people like me may have very, very different opinion than you. It seems pretty "dumb" to me to use my fast hit spears with a staff...maybe this is preference, but I hate staff wielding on Magplar as my main weapon. There are many players like me, as well, who feel the same.
No I do not think summoning a magical weapon is dumb at all it makes more sense then holding two swords you barely use or utilize beyond stats. And I am not sure why you are telling me something I already know, it is just my opinion there is no reason to seek validation.
Then why are you coming into a thread against a change that doesn't seem to affect you anyways?
There were choices with magicka builds. You could dual wield or use staves. This is going to ruin any sort of choice. That's the problem here.
Why does it bother you? I came into the thread title because it never implied it was about dw for magicka in the first place, and I will make any comments I choose lol you need to relax and stop trying to control what others do if you do not like my opinion then get over it?
It is literally just for looks that is not real build diversity, you are not using the swords, what they need to do is add a new magicka weapon line.2 -
F7sus4✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Back in the days I actually had Quick Cloak slotted on my back-bar on magNB for vMOL hardmode AoE damage reduction in my flex spot sometimes (it also provided Major Expedition that helped running). Some out-of-the-box ideas still have their niche uses.Dual wielding on a magicka character is pretty dumb anyway. One of the most stupid meta's I have ever seen. The swords are just there. You aren't even using them. Lame.1 -
NightbladeMechanics✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Degeneration buffs woo!Kena
Legion XIII
Excellence without elitism
Premier small scale PvP
Legend
NA/PC's original dueling and PvP community guild
Now NA/PC's dueling, BGs, small scale, GvG, and general PvP community. We float just under 500 members. Mail me in game for an invite.
Apex Predator.
Here's a great thread collecting community ideas for PvP updates.
[MEGATHREAD] Feedback Threads for Class Reps
Class Representative Feedback Discords:Nightblade Discussion:
https://discord.gg/t2Xhnu6
Dragonknight Discussion:
https://discord.gg/UHtZhz8
Sorcerer Discussion:
https://discord.gg/e3QkCS8
Templar Discussion:
https://discord.gg/WvVuSw7
Warden Discussion:
https://discord.gg/sTFY4ys
General Healing Discussion:
https://discord.gg/6CmzBFb
TONKS!
https://discord.gg/DRNYd39
Werewolf Discussion:
https://discord.gg/aDEx2ev
Vampire Discussion:
https://discord.gg/yfzck8Q2 -
DisgracefulMind✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭DragonBound wrote: »DisgracefulMind wrote: »DragonBound wrote: »DisgracefulMind wrote: »DragonBound wrote: »
Do you play a non-caster magicka build where you're forced into melee? Because people like me may have very, very different opinion than you. It seems pretty "dumb" to me to use my fast hit spears with a staff...maybe this is preference, but I hate staff wielding on Magplar as my main weapon. There are many players like me, as well, who feel the same.
No I do not think summoning a magical weapon is dumb at all it makes more sense then holding two swords you barely use or utilize beyond stats. And I am not sure why you are telling me something I already know, it is just my opinion there is no reason to seek validation.
Then why are you coming into a thread against a change that doesn't seem to affect you anyways?
There were choices with magicka builds. You could dual wield or use staves. This is going to ruin any sort of choice. That's the problem here.
Why does it bother you? I came into the thread title because it never implied it was about dw for magicka in the first place, and I will make any comments I choose lol you need to relax and stop trying to control what others do if you do not like my opinion then get over it?
It is literally just for looks that is not real build diversity, you are not using the swords, what they need to do is add a new magicka weapon line.
The OP started the thread on the talk of magicka users getting access to build variety through dual wield being cut off. That is what this thread is about. I'm not controlling your opinion, you can have that, but the OP obviously made the thread to raise an issue that is, actually, quite concerning. Don't try to condescend me over providing valid information. I am "relaxed", but I'm also going to clarify why what you just said is wrong.
The swords are not just for looks. Most Magicka users who dual wield use swords to literally have an extra slot. They bring build diversity, since 2H weapons do not count for 2 slots. So, no, it's not for looks. Which is largely what this thread explains. DW Magicka builds use them for more build options.
I will agree on your last sentence, however, there should be more options to Magicka users for skill-lines. But we know that's not going to be available anytime soon judging by how ZoS has never made it available previously. And now DW will suffer greatly. It does, actually, hurt many builds.
The OP brings up very valid points.Edited by DisgracefulMind on May 14, 2017 3:26AMUnfortunate magicka warden main.
PC/NA Server
Fairweather Friends
Retired to baby bgs forever. Leave me alone.10 -
DragonBound✭✭✭✭✭DisgracefulMind wrote: »DragonBound wrote: »DisgracefulMind wrote: »DragonBound wrote: »DisgracefulMind wrote: »DragonBound wrote: »
Do you play a non-caster magicka build where you're forced into melee? Because people like me may have very, very different opinion than you. It seems pretty "dumb" to me to use my fast hit spears with a staff...maybe this is preference, but I hate staff wielding on Magplar as my main weapon. There are many players like me, as well, who feel the same.
No I do not think summoning a magical weapon is dumb at all it makes more sense then holding two swords you barely use or utilize beyond stats. And I am not sure why you are telling me something I already know, it is just my opinion there is no reason to seek validation.
Then why are you coming into a thread against a change that doesn't seem to affect you anyways?
There were choices with magicka builds. You could dual wield or use staves. This is going to ruin any sort of choice. That's the problem here.
Why does it bother you? I came into the thread title because it never implied it was about dw for magicka in the first place, and I will make any comments I choose lol you need to relax and stop trying to control what others do if you do not like my opinion then get over it?
It is literally just for looks that is not real build diversity, you are not using the swords, what they need to do is add a new magicka weapon line.
The OP started the thread on the talk of magicka users getting access to build variety through dual wield being cut off. That is what this thread is about. I'm not controlling your opinion, you can have that, but the OP obviously made the thread to raise an issue that is, actually, quite concerning. Don't try to condescend me over providing valid information. I am "relaxed", but I'm also going to clarify why what you just said is wrong.
The swords are not just for looks. Most Magicka users who dual wield use swords to literally have an extra slot. They bring build diversity, since 2H weapons do not count for 2 slots. So, no, it's not for looks. Which is largely what this thread explains. DW Magicka builds use them for more build options.
I will agree on your last sentence, however, there should be more options to Magicka users for skill-lines. But we know that's not going to be available anytime soon judging by how ZoS has never made it available previously. And now DW will suffer greatly. It does, actually, hurt many builds.
The OP brings up very valid points.
Well I did not mean it was literally just for looks but you where not clarifying anything you where literally just insecure about people expressing their opinion about this, and you did not claim that was an issue I am simply talking about how it looks, and you brought up the point of jabs so you may want to rethink your little snarky comment trying to prove something wrong which you never brought up in the first place.
And until they fix the 2 slot thing there really is no reason for dw to be an option for magicka while you still cannot do it with 2 handed or bow, magicka is performing better then stamina as it is.Edited by DragonBound on May 14, 2017 3:54AM1 -
Narvuntien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I have to use dw on my MagDK. I lose way too much damage not using monster sets. Seducers doesn't do anything without the 5 piece bonus.
Also I only have BSW 1h weapons and grinding for exactly a sharpened inferno staff will probably cause me to quit the game in frustration at RNG.
Notably without the BSW buff on, my WD is almost as high as my SD so I am not actually sure I am losing that much damage from light attacking with swords, plus fire enchants on them giving the chance to trigger the BSW.
Switching to silks of the sun due to BSW nerfs would put me in an even worse position.Edited by Narvuntien on May 14, 2017 5:18AM0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZoS is homogenizing everything.Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.17 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The way i see it, the choice still exists but the consequences are perhaps a bit more severe for some builds. It will be up to each player to judge whether his particular approach is helped or hurt or needs adjusting to this change just like all others.
In a living MMO things change and today's meta may be tomorrow's niche may be the next tomorrow's nostalgia.
Mag return poisons and mag return glyphs still work when applied to two swords, right?
That second 5 piece bonus still works right?
Most builds will change with this patch and/or see their usefulness decreased, so the real question is just how will you adapt?
Choices should have consequences... and do.Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."5 -
ku5h✭✭✭✭✭
✭DragonBound wrote: »DisgracefulMind wrote: »DragonBound wrote: »DisgracefulMind wrote: »DragonBound wrote: »
Do you play a non-caster magicka build where you're forced into melee? Because people like me may have very, very different opinion than you. It seems pretty "dumb" to me to use my fast hit spears with a staff...maybe this is preference, but I hate staff wielding on Magplar as my main weapon. There are many players like me, as well, who feel the same.
No I do not think summoning a magical weapon is dumb at all it makes more sense then holding two swords you barely use or utilize beyond stats. And I am not sure why you are telling me something I already know, it is just my opinion there is no reason to seek validation.
Then why are you coming into a thread against a change that doesn't seem to affect you anyways?
There were choices with magicka builds. You could dual wield or use staves. This is going to ruin any sort of choice. That's the problem here.
Why does it bother you? I came into the thread title because it never implied it was about dw for magicka in the first place, and I will make any comments I choose lol you need to relax and stop trying to control what others do if you do not like my opinion then get over it?
It is literally just for looks that is not real build diversity, you are not using the swords, what they need to do is add a new magicka weapon line.
And how are you not using swords? Are you not weaving LA/HA attacks in between skills? Are you not procing those weapon enchants? If your answer is No, then you simply are not utilising your complete build.1 -
BigES✭✭✭✭✭The way i see it, the choice still exists but the consequences are perhaps a bit more severe for some builds. It will be up to each player to judge whether his particular approach is helped or hurt or needs adjusting to this change just like all others.
In a living MMO things change and today's meta may be tomorrow's niche may be the next tomorrow's nostalgia.
Mag return poisons and mag return glyphs still work when applied to two swords, right?
That second 5 piece bonus still works right?
Most builds will change with this patch and/or see their usefulness decreased, so the real question is just how will you adapt?
Choices should have consequences... and do.
trade-off - (ˈtrād ˌôf/) - noun - a balance achieved between two desirable but incompatible features; a compromise.
I don't disagree with your statement, but its just begging the question. Buffing one and not then other disrupts the balanced trade-off.
RE: adapting - I mentioned in the OP I've been adapting my builds for 3+ years but, yeah, good question. Not sure how I'll adapt this time. I think I know how I'd rework my build, but again, its ANOTHER complete overhaul. I'm tired of complete overhauls. Aren't you?
1 -
ZOS_Ragnar✭✭✭✭✭We have removed some post that were off-topic and disruptive to the discussion. Please keep your posts civil and constructive.The Elder Scrolls Online - ZeniMax Online Studios
Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site0 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The way i see it, the choice still exists but the consequences are perhaps a bit more severe for some builds. It will be up to each player to judge whether his particular approach is helped or hurt or needs adjusting to this change just like all others.
In a living MMO things change and today's meta may be tomorrow's niche may be the next tomorrow's nostalgia.
Mag return poisons and mag return glyphs still work when applied to two swords, right?
That second 5 piece bonus still works right?
Most builds will change with this patch and/or see their usefulness decreased, so the real question is just how will you adapt?
Choices should have consequences... and do.
trade-off - (ˈtrād ˌôf/) - noun - a balance achieved between two desirable but incompatible features; a compromise.
I don't disagree with your statement, but its just begging the question. Buffing one and not then other disrupts the balanced trade-off.
RE: adapting - I mentioned in the OP I've been adapting my builds for 3+ years but, yeah, good question. Not sure how I'll adapt this time. I think I know how I'd rework my build, but again, its ANOTHER complete overhaul. I'm tired of complete overhauls. Aren't you?
it changes the dynamic to be sure, it alters the balance point. Whether it was balanced before or is balanced now is open for debate.
Consider...
light attacks do more damage while heavy attacks do less damage but more sustain.
That seems to favor the DW side a smidge because their light attack worked into a weave do more damage. meanwhile their heavy attacks never mattered all that much compared to the staves (wrong stat recovery) so the damage loss there is not gonna hurt.
basically the old paradigm was if you are weaving with spammables you tended to use staff but if you are laying dots and aoe you are more likely to be using dw for its benefits instead of the weave. now the weave just got better by a smidge and frankly so did the dots (better damage to cost.)
So if you can manage your sustain without heavy attacks (almost by definition minimal use of spammables with weaves) you can reap the benefits of DW just fine.
However, if you hinge your argument on the "optimal 5-5-2", remember that at any high end level of play, the 5-5-2 is more myth than reality because of maelstrom and master weapons. Additionally, there are a good number of sets that are frankly well optimized for 2-4-4-1/1 setups where staff (and 2h and bow) users get the full benefits of two 5pc sets and a monster set until they get to m&m weapons.
Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
DisgracefulMind✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭DragonBound wrote: »DisgracefulMind wrote: »DragonBound wrote: »DisgracefulMind wrote: »DragonBound wrote: »DisgracefulMind wrote: »DragonBound wrote: »
Do you play a non-caster magicka build where you're forced into melee? Because people like me may have very, very different opinion than you. It seems pretty "dumb" to me to use my fast hit spears with a staff...maybe this is preference, but I hate staff wielding on Magplar as my main weapon. There are many players like me, as well, who feel the same.
No I do not think summoning a magical weapon is dumb at all it makes more sense then holding two swords you barely use or utilize beyond stats. And I am not sure why you are telling me something I already know, it is just my opinion there is no reason to seek validation.
Then why are you coming into a thread against a change that doesn't seem to affect you anyways?
There were choices with magicka builds. You could dual wield or use staves. This is going to ruin any sort of choice. That's the problem here.
Why does it bother you? I came into the thread title because it never implied it was about dw for magicka in the first place, and I will make any comments I choose lol you need to relax and stop trying to control what others do if you do not like my opinion then get over it?
It is literally just for looks that is not real build diversity, you are not using the swords, what they need to do is add a new magicka weapon line.
The OP started the thread on the talk of magicka users getting access to build variety through dual wield being cut off. That is what this thread is about. I'm not controlling your opinion, you can have that, but the OP obviously made the thread to raise an issue that is, actually, quite concerning. Don't try to condescend me over providing valid information. I am "relaxed", but I'm also going to clarify why what you just said is wrong.
The swords are not just for looks. Most Magicka users who dual wield use swords to literally have an extra slot. They bring build diversity, since 2H weapons do not count for 2 slots. So, no, it's not for looks. Which is largely what this thread explains. DW Magicka builds use them for more build options.
I will agree on your last sentence, however, there should be more options to Magicka users for skill-lines. But we know that's not going to be available anytime soon judging by how ZoS has never made it available previously. And now DW will suffer greatly. It does, actually, hurt many builds.
The OP brings up very valid points.
Well I did not mean it was literally just for looks but you where not clarifying anything you where literally just insecure about people expressing their opinion about this, and you did not claim that was an issue I am simply talking about how it looks, and you brought up the point of jabs so you may want to rethink your little snarky comment trying to prove something wrong which you never brought up in the first place.
And until they fix the 2 slot thing there really is no reason for dw to be an option for magicka while you still cannot do it with 2 handed or bow, magicka is performing better then stamina as it is.
The first remark I made in this thread was about build options falling. I wasn't "snarky" to you. You keep trying to insult me. Sorry, doesn't work.
And I don't see why stamina builds should have more set options, but not Magicka builds. Makes no sense.Unfortunate magicka warden main.
PC/NA Server
Fairweather Friends
Retired to baby bgs forever. Leave me alone.0 -
DisgracefulMind✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The way i see it, the choice still exists but the consequences are perhaps a bit more severe for some builds. It will be up to each player to judge whether his particular approach is helped or hurt or needs adjusting to this change just like all others.
In a living MMO things change and today's meta may be tomorrow's niche may be the next tomorrow's nostalgia.
Mag return poisons and mag return glyphs still work when applied to two swords, right?
That second 5 piece bonus still works right?
Most builds will change with this patch and/or see their usefulness decreased, so the real question is just how will you adapt?
Choices should have consequences... and do.
trade-off - (ˈtrād ˌôf/) - noun - a balance achieved between two desirable but incompatible features; a compromise.
I don't disagree with your statement, but its just begging the question. Buffing one and not then other disrupts the balanced trade-off.
RE: adapting - I mentioned in the OP I've been adapting my builds for 3+ years but, yeah, good question. Not sure how I'll adapt this time. I think I know how I'd rework my build, but again, its ANOTHER complete overhaul. I'm tired of complete overhauls. Aren't you?
it changes the dynamic to be sure, it alters the balance point. Whether it was balanced before or is balanced now is open for debate.
Consider...
light attacks do more damage while heavy attacks do less damage but more sustain.
That seems to favor the DW side a smidge because their light attack worked into a weave do more damage. meanwhile their heavy attacks never mattered all that much compared to the staves (wrong stat recovery) so the damage loss there is not gonna hurt.
basically the old paradigm was if you are weaving with spammables you tended to use staff but if you are laying dots and aoe you are more likely to be using dw for its benefits instead of the weave. now the weave just got better by a smidge and frankly so did the dots (better damage to cost.)
So if you can manage your sustain without heavy attacks (almost by definition minimal use of spammables with weaves) you can reap the benefits of DW just fine.
However, if you hinge your argument on the "optimal 5-5-2", remember that at any high end level of play, the 5-5-2 is more myth than reality because of maelstrom and master weapons. Additionally, there are a good number of sets that are frankly well optimized for 2-4-4-1/1 setups where staff (and 2h and bow) users get the full benefits of two 5pc sets and a monster set until they get to m&m weapons.
Well, with the huge sustain hits + the fact that DW doesn't restore magicka on heavy attacks, it will be pretty harmful to run DW; thus, limiting magicka builds.
And there are completely valid end-game Magicka builds that use DW. Moondancer Magplar would be the prime example of that. PvP Magplar builds are also good examples of this.
So now we're forced into staves, honestly. And that part sucks.Unfortunate magicka warden main.
PC/NA Server
Fairweather Friends
Retired to baby bgs forever. Leave me alone.0 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Dual Wield meta was a dumb idea to begin with. It's not intuitive to new players, it doesn't make sense thematically, it looks rather odd, and gives you almost zero synergy with Dual Wield passives/actives (Besides the Twin blade and blunt passive).
There's no real reason why it should exist. It doesn't fit with the overall design of magicka builds.
Being able to carry two weapons should not be a stamina exclusive thing. The extra set piece plays an important role in build diversity.Dual wielding on a magicka character is pretty dumb anyway. One of the most stupid meta's I have ever seen. The swords are just there. You aren't even using them. Lame.
Dumb in what way? Having two sword has always existed. Its pivotal to Magicka Templar and Magicka DK builds. There also used to be Magicka Socerers with dual swords, but especially with the resource nerfs, that's also been eliminated.
This change is just a perverted hotfix to try to level out trials dps so that cost reduction build + light weaves will be more in line with full damage build + heavy weaves.... but it causes more issues in the process than it solves. Weaving is a major aspect of the game, you can't just overhaul how it operates at the last minute of a PTS cycle.
Why shouldn't 5/5/2 be exclusively for stamina, though?
You talk about build diversity, but isn't this the mindset that kills diversity? "No other build can have any special capabilities unless mine can have them too."
There are all sorts of advantages exclusive to Magicka builds.3