Stamina management was a distinguishing characteristic of magicka nightblade until Morrowind PTS.

NightbladeMechanics · May 2017

And magicka nightblades needed it more than the other three magicka classes, too.

I'm still not sure why you decided to take it away from this class, out of everyone.

Just pointing this out. I'm done arguing for changes, as rational discussion clearly goes nowhere.

SanTii.92 · May 2017

While i agree on essence, i just think it's too late to argue about that and time to actually try out this changes.

Because i'm on the pts, and no one else is here. Just saying.

usmcjdking · May 2017

I agree. Magblade was designed to be a slippery debuffer that only had one real kill mechanic (Merciless). Now that merciless got PVP nerfed pretty hard and cloak is the single most ineffective defensive mechanic in this game coupled with the gutting of their stam regen - magblade is arguably in the worst shape out of ALL the classes in PVP.

Magblade cannot come close to killing anything without merciless, and the ability to build up merciless is built entirely into the class' regen management that allows it to face tank some damage too -

A) Pull off 4 light attacks in a reasonable amount of time.

Properly maintain defensive buffs while taking incoming damage.
C) Setting up the conditions so that your magicka snipe actually lands (cripple -> fear -> merciless)
D) Having a complete investment into glass cannon stats so your mercilesss actually does enough damage.

Magblade is in serious trouble next patch - the only class I'm honestly worried about in PVP.

arkansas_ESO · May 2017

The thing that's so mind boggling is that anybody that's played a magblade in PVP for 10 minutes will tell you how crucial the stam return from Siphoning Attacks is, yet it seems like ZOS has no clue or view it as an afterthought. When people say "ZOS doesn't play their own game", it's because of decisions like the incoming Siphoning nerf.

SanTii.92 wrote: »

While i agree on essence, i just think it's too late to argue about that and time to actually try out this changes.

Because i'm on the pts, and no one else is here. Just saying.

I shared this same mindset and went to PTS to test--75 games of battlegrounds later, I've yet to find a build for magblade that I couldn't run better on another class. Sure, I've found decent builds (mainly abusing Knight Slayer and Oblivion enchants with Torug's) but all of them would have worked better on a magic Templar or magic sorc. There's just no reason to play a magic NB in battlegrounds.

Damage? Magic sorc, stam builds, and magic Templar can all out damage you, which is kind of embarrassing seeing as how you're the assassin class.

Utility through offheals? That hasn't really been a thing since they nerfed Funnel Health.

Mobility? Cloak's the easiest countered mechanic in the game, and you have no way to purge snares. You've got about as much mobility as a magic DK.

Healing? A Templar can do it better.

Tanking? A Templar or Warden can do it better.

Like I said, there's just really no reason to play a magic NB in battlegrounds. ZOS keeps saying that they're making these balance changes to encourage diversity, but I haven't felt like I've had less choices about what I could play and remain effective since vamp magic DKs were literal gods back at PC launch.

Juhasow · May 2017

usmcjdking wrote: »

I agree. Magblade was designed to be a slippery debuffer that only had one real kill mechanic (Merciless). Now that merciless got PVP nerfed pretty hard and cloak is the single most ineffective defensive mechanic in this game coupled with the gutting of their stam regen - magblade is arguably in the worst shape out of ALL the classes in PVP.

Magblade cannot come close to killing anything without merciless, and the ability to build up merciless is built entirely into the class' regen management that allows it to face tank some damage too -

A) Pull off 4 light attacks in a reasonable amount of time.
Properly maintain defensive buffs while taking incoming damage.
C) Setting up the conditions so that your magicka snipe actually lands (cripple -> fear -> merciless)
D) Having a complete investment into glass cannon stats so your mercilesss actually does enough damage.

Magblade is in serious trouble next patch - the only class I'm honestly worried about in PVP.

Ummm...what ? Magblade was designed to kill enemies with merciless ? You do realize that at the beggining that skill required 7 weapon attacks to fire ?

LtCrunch · May 2017

Juhasow wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

I agree. Magblade was designed to be a slippery debuffer that only had one real kill mechanic (Merciless). Now that merciless got PVP nerfed pretty hard and cloak is the single most ineffective defensive mechanic in this game coupled with the gutting of their stam regen - magblade is arguably in the worst shape out of ALL the classes in PVP.

Magblade cannot come close to killing anything without merciless, and the ability to build up merciless is built entirely into the class' regen management that allows it to face tank some damage too -

A) Pull off 4 light attacks in a reasonable amount of time.
Properly maintain defensive buffs while taking incoming damage.
C) Setting up the conditions so that your magicka snipe actually lands (cripple -> fear -> merciless)
D) Having a complete investment into glass cannon stats so your mercilesss actually does enough damage.

Magblade is in serious trouble next patch - the only class I'm honestly worried about in PVP.

Ummm...what ? Magblade was designed to kill enemies with merciless ? You do realize that at the beggining that skill required 7 weapon attacks to fire ?

I mean nightblade didn't even have the ability until over a year after launch when it replaced haste....so there's that too.

usmcjdking · May 2017

Juhasow wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

I agree. Magblade was designed to be a slippery debuffer that only had one real kill mechanic (Merciless). Now that merciless got PVP nerfed pretty hard and cloak is the single most ineffective defensive mechanic in this game coupled with the gutting of their stam regen - magblade is arguably in the worst shape out of ALL the classes in PVP.

Magblade cannot come close to killing anything without merciless, and the ability to build up merciless is built entirely into the class' regen management that allows it to face tank some damage too -

A) Pull off 4 light attacks in a reasonable amount of time.
Properly maintain defensive buffs while taking incoming damage.
C) Setting up the conditions so that your magicka snipe actually lands (cripple -> fear -> merciless)
D) Having a complete investment into glass cannon stats so your mercilesss actually does enough damage.

Magblade is in serious trouble next patch - the only class I'm honestly worried about in PVP.

Ummm...what ? Magblade was designed to kill enemies with merciless ? You do realize that at the beggining that skill required 7 weapon attacks to fire ?

And nightblades were in the complete dumpster at the time.

Subversus · May 2017

It's sad, because we actually thought we would have a say in what comes out of the pts next patch. Seems like the only voices that are loud enough to be heard are the cries of mag sorcs.

Zos was never intending to revert any of these changes. They went into this patch with the intention to neuter dks and destroy the original magblade feel. They never had any intention to actually listen to the ones paying for the game, they were going to push their uneducated vision on us whether we like it or not.

Magıc · May 2017

Subversus wrote: »

It's sad, because we actually thought we would have a say in what comes out of the pts next patch. Seems like the only voices that are loud enough to be heard are the cries of mag sorcs.

Zos was never intending to revert any of these changes. They went into this patch with the intention to neuter dks and destroy the original magblade feel. They never had any intention to actually listen to the ones paying for the game, they were going to push their uneducated vision on us whether we like it or not.

Lol.

I must admit, you make me laugh just as much as Jeff.

casparian · May 2017

With the heavy attack changes, I think it might be viable to run the stamina morph of siphoning with a high-recovery build. I'm tempted to run Drain Stamina poisons as well, because as toxic as cost poisons are (see what I did there), stealing an enemy's resources does fit the description of what our class is supposed to be.

We've been nerfed in PVP for sure, but I'm sure I can make something work.

At least we still have the Sewers.

Ashamray · May 2017

Heavy armor pvp healplars with new coming passive and resto staff heavy attack could have a really strong ***.

NightbladeMechanics · May 2017

casparian wrote: »

With the heavy attack changes, I think it might be viable to run the stamina morph of siphoning with a high-recovery build. I'm tempted to run Drain Stamina poisons as well, because as toxic as cost poisons are (see what I did there), stealing an enemy's resources does fit the description of what our class is supposed to be.

We've been nerfed in PVP for sure, but I'm sure I can make something work.

At least we still have the Sewers.

That is one way I see mageblade functioning as well, but that doesn't make the changes right. Our build and play patterns are about to drastically change.

casparian · May 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

With the heavy attack changes, I think it might be viable to run the stamina morph of siphoning with a high-recovery build. I'm tempted to run Drain Stamina poisons as well, because as toxic as cost poisons are (see what I did there), stealing an enemy's resources does fit the description of what our class is supposed to be.

We've been nerfed in PVP for sure, but I'm sure I can make something work.

At least we still have the Sewers.

That is one way I see mageblade functioning as well, but that doesn't make the changes right. Our build and play patterns are about to drastically change.

Agreed. There might be a workaround, but other classes don't have to find and adjust to a workaround.

NightbladeMechanics · May 2017

casparian wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

With the heavy attack changes, I think it might be viable to run the stamina morph of siphoning with a high-recovery build. I'm tempted to run Drain Stamina poisons as well, because as toxic as cost poisons are (see what I did there), stealing an enemy's resources does fit the description of what our class is supposed to be.

We've been nerfed in PVP for sure, but I'm sure I can make something work.

At least we still have the Sewers.

That is one way I see mageblade functioning as well, but that doesn't make the changes right. Our build and play patterns are about to drastically change.

Agreed. There might be a workaround, but other classes don't have to find and adjust to a workaround.

Everyone will have to find workarounds for next patch. Ours is just more demanding because we're losing a mechanic which our class relies on.

Aerem · May 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

With the heavy attack changes, I think it might be viable to run the stamina morph of siphoning with a high-recovery build. I'm tempted to run Drain Stamina poisons as well, because as toxic as cost poisons are (see what I did there), stealing an enemy's resources does fit the description of what our class is supposed to be.

We've been nerfed in PVP for sure, but I'm sure I can make something work.

At least we still have the Sewers.

That is one way I see mageblade functioning as well, but that doesn't make the changes right. Our build and play patterns are about to drastically change.

Agreed. There might be a workaround, but other classes don't have to find and adjust to a workaround.

Everyone will have to find workarounds for next patch. Ours is just more demanding because we're losing a mechanic which our class relies on.

Same

CavalryPK · May 2017

I support this post

Juhasow · May 2017

usmcjdking wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

I agree. Magblade was designed to be a slippery debuffer that only had one real kill mechanic (Merciless). Now that merciless got PVP nerfed pretty hard and cloak is the single most ineffective defensive mechanic in this game coupled with the gutting of their stam regen - magblade is arguably in the worst shape out of ALL the classes in PVP.

Magblade cannot come close to killing anything without merciless, and the ability to build up merciless is built entirely into the class' regen management that allows it to face tank some damage too -

A) Pull off 4 light attacks in a reasonable amount of time.
Properly maintain defensive buffs while taking incoming damage.
C) Setting up the conditions so that your magicka snipe actually lands (cripple -> fear -> merciless)
D) Having a complete investment into glass cannon stats so your mercilesss actually does enough damage.

Magblade is in serious trouble next patch - the only class I'm honestly worried about in PVP.

Ummm...what ? Magblade was designed to kill enemies with merciless ? You do realize that at the beggining that skill required 7 weapon attacks to fire ?

And nightblades were in the complete dumpster at the time.

Nb had it days of glory when class was stupidly OP.

Lord_Shone · May 2017

100% agreed, have been maining magicka nightblade for a long time (and will continue to out of sheer stubborness) however they suffer from a lot of problems in PvP, this is just the tip of the iceberg.

Subversus · May 2017

Magıc wrote: »

Subversus wrote: »

It's sad, because we actually thought we would have a say in what comes out of the pts next patch. Seems like the only voices that are loud enough to be heard are the cries of mag sorcs.

Zos was never intending to revert any of these changes. They went into this patch with the intention to neuter dks and destroy the original magblade feel. They never had any intention to actually listen to the ones paying for the game, they were going to push their uneducated vision on us whether we like it or not.

Lol.

I must admit, you make me laugh just as much as Jeff.

Sorcs are the only class in the history of the game that managed to take a proposed nerf and turn it into a buff. What's up with you and Jeff though, he beat you good one time and left some open wound in need of healing?

thankyourat · May 2017

Juhasow wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

I agree. Magblade was designed to be a slippery debuffer that only had one real kill mechanic (Merciless). Now that merciless got PVP nerfed pretty hard and cloak is the single most ineffective defensive mechanic in this game coupled with the gutting of their stam regen - magblade is arguably in the worst shape out of ALL the classes in PVP.

Magblade cannot come close to killing anything without merciless, and the ability to build up merciless is built entirely into the class' regen management that allows it to face tank some damage too -

A) Pull off 4 light attacks in a reasonable amount of time.
Properly maintain defensive buffs while taking incoming damage.
C) Setting up the conditions so that your magicka snipe actually lands (cripple -> fear -> merciless)
D) Having a complete investment into glass cannon stats so your mercilesss actually does enough damage.

Magblade is in serious trouble next patch - the only class I'm honestly worried about in PVP.

Ummm...what ? Magblade was designed to kill enemies with merciless ? You do realize that at the beggining that skill required 7 weapon attacks to fire ?

And nightblades were in the complete dumpster at the time.

Nb had it days of glory when class was stupidly OP.

That was stamina nightblade though magblade has never been op

bubbygink · May 2017

casparian wrote: »

With the heavy attack changes, I think it might be viable to run the stamina morph of siphoning with a high-recovery build. I'm tempted to run Drain Stamina poisons as well, because as toxic as cost poisons are (see what I did there), stealing an enemy's resources does fit the description of what our class is supposed to be.

We've been nerfed in PVP for sure, but I'm sure I can make something work.

At least we still have the Sewers.

I was thinking the same thing in regards to running poisons. Agree that it seems "toxic" to run them but at the same time it does make complete sense to do so next patch. Farmed some Amberplasm jewelry this weekend as well. Figured I may test out 5 heavy with 5 Amberplasm with the hopes that the constitution passive and the stam recovery from amber is enough to sustain stam - ideally even with witchmothers potent brew (may use prismatic glyphs as well to make up for some stam and health lost in no CP BGs).

I think heavy will actually be very good for magicka sustain this patch too as resto heavy attacks in heavy armor will restore a massive amount of resources. Magblade will definitely play different next patch but I think we'll be ok. At least trying out some new set combos that I never have before will be fun. Anyway, just spitballing some ideas for ways to make up stamina sustain. Will obviously do much more testing when the patch drops. I look forward to the builds everyone comes up with.

helediron · May 2017

I just toyed with the new worldbosses in Wardenfell. MagNB just ain't fun any more. I play it like a monkey in live, kiting, dodgerolling, blocking - all possible with Siphoning Attacks returning both pools. Now in PTS i get stunned and can't break.

First time after three years i am actively searching alternative to ESO.

NightbladeMechanics · May 2017

helediron wrote: »

I just toyed with the new worldbosses in Wardenfell. MagNB just ain't fun any more. I play it like a monkey in live, kiting, dodgerolling, blocking - all possible with Siphoning Attacks returning both pools. Now in PTS i get stunned and can't break.

First time after three years i am actively searching alternative to ESO.

I feel the same way. This plus slowing down grim focus...they're taking chips off of nightblade's soul. Haven't logged on in a couple days in fact. Been playing League instead.

casparian · May 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

helediron wrote: »

I just toyed with the new worldbosses in Wardenfell. MagNB just ain't fun any more. I play it like a monkey in live, kiting, dodgerolling, blocking - all possible with Siphoning Attacks returning both pools. Now in PTS i get stunned and can't break.

First time after three years i am actively searching alternative to ESO.

I feel the same way. This plus slowing down grim focus...they're taking chips off of nightblade's soul. Haven't logged on in a couple days in fact. Been playing League instead.

League? Speaking of taking chips off your soul...

I'll still stick with magblade just because I'm very excited about their PVE performance. But my PVP main may switch to magplar at this point. This cycle proved that even when they fully intend to make magblade work better, they just can't figure out how to do it. It's disappointing.

Xvorg · May 2017

helediron wrote: »

I just toyed with the new worldbosses in Wardenfell. MagNB just ain't fun any more. I play it like a monkey in live, kiting, dodgerolling, blocking - all possible with Siphoning Attacks returning both pools. Now in PTS i get stunned and can't break.

First time after three years i am actively searching alternative to ESO.

My heart aches when reading this...

NightbladeMechanics · May 2017

casparian wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

helediron wrote: »

I just toyed with the new worldbosses in Wardenfell. MagNB just ain't fun any more. I play it like a monkey in live, kiting, dodgerolling, blocking - all possible with Siphoning Attacks returning both pools. Now in PTS i get stunned and can't break.

First time after three years i am actively searching alternative to ESO.

I feel the same way. This plus slowing down grim focus...they're taking chips off of nightblade's soul. Haven't logged on in a couple days in fact. Been playing League instead.

League? Speaking of taking chips off your soul...

Lol I know!

It's been really fun playing casually since I've stopped caring about rank, though! I got my tryhard out of my system before I quit for eso years ago. Now I'm enjoying derping around in low elo after all that elo decay.

casparian wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

helediron wrote: »

I just toyed with the new worldbosses in Wardenfell. MagNB just ain't fun any more. I play it like a monkey in live, kiting, dodgerolling, blocking - all possible with Siphoning Attacks returning both pools. Now in PTS i get stunned and can't break.

First time after three years i am actively searching alternative to ESO.

I feel the same way. This plus slowing down grim focus...they're taking chips off of nightblade's soul. Haven't logged on in a couple days in fact. Been playing League instead.

I'll still stick with magblade just because I'm very excited about their PVE performance. But my PVP main may switch to magplar at this point. This cycle proved that even when they fully intend to make magblade work better, they just can't figure out how to do it. It's disappointing.

Yea, ZOS definitely has no idea how mageblade works or how to help it do better. I've lost all hope and much of my interest. I have had more fun playing my sorc and stamblade for a long time, but doing so feels like cheating or giving up.. I'm pretty stubborn.

I'm also looking at learning stam sorc now. I've avoided playing mine for all this time since they've been so op, but stamplar and stam dk pulled ahead last patch. I do love mobility.

Obligatory "didn't play it because op, but don't you play mag sorc?"

hehe

argouru · May 2017

It sounds like they want magblades to take the Leeching Strikes Morph and use either Restore Magicka or Elemental Drain to restore magicka. It's more cumbersome than it needs to be.

casparian · May 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

helediron wrote: »

I just toyed with the new worldbosses in Wardenfell. MagNB just ain't fun any more. I play it like a monkey in live, kiting, dodgerolling, blocking - all possible with Siphoning Attacks returning both pools. Now in PTS i get stunned and can't break.

First time after three years i am actively searching alternative to ESO.

I feel the same way. This plus slowing down grim focus...they're taking chips off of nightblade's soul. Haven't logged on in a couple days in fact. Been playing League instead.

League? Speaking of taking chips off your soul...

Lol I know!

It's been really fun playing casually since I've stopped caring about rank, though! I got my tryhard out of my system before I quit for eso years ago. Now I'm enjoying derping around in low elo after all that elo decay.

casparian wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

helediron wrote: »

I just toyed with the new worldbosses in Wardenfell. MagNB just ain't fun any more. I play it like a monkey in live, kiting, dodgerolling, blocking - all possible with Siphoning Attacks returning both pools. Now in PTS i get stunned and can't break.

First time after three years i am actively searching alternative to ESO.

I feel the same way. This plus slowing down grim focus...they're taking chips off of nightblade's soul. Haven't logged on in a couple days in fact. Been playing League instead.

I'll still stick with magblade just because I'm very excited about their PVE performance. But my PVP main may switch to magplar at this point. This cycle proved that even when they fully intend to make magblade work better, they just can't figure out how to do it. It's disappointing.

Yea, ZOS definitely has no idea how mageblade works or how to help it do better. I've lost all hope and much of my interest. I have had more fun playing my sorc and stamblade for a long time, but doing so feels like cheating or giving up.. I'm pretty stubborn.

I'm also looking at learning stam sorc now. I've avoided playing mine for all this time since they've been so op, but stamplar and stam dk pulled ahead last patch. I do love mobility.

Obligatory "didn't play it because op, but don't you play mag sorc?" hehe

Well you certainly make it look fun. Hopefully this sort of thing is still possible next patch.