Oblivion damage urgently needs to be affected by Battle Spirit

Minno · May 2017

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

The problem is making Armor sets like this to counter game mechanics instead of making game mechanics designed to counter play styles.

For example, back in 1.x Flame Whip, Veiled Strike, Mage's Fury, and Punturing Strikes could NOT be dodged they could only be countered by blocking(which was not a big deal back then because stamina regen while blocking)

What WAS the big deal back then was Block cast because there was no unblockable skills (except Impulse that was quickly nerfed)

The issue with Block is there are no damaging skill that ignore it, and the non-damaging skills do ignore it (Fear, Rune Cage, and Fossilize) simply are not good enough, they are quickly broken out of and back to blocking...its impossible to do significant damage to these block tanks while they hold block. With all the increased healing passives and what not, this is what we have.

Shields have Shield Breaker, Shattering Blows, and Oblivion damage enchants that either ignore shields completely or significantly increase your damage against them thus allowing you to pressure a shield user under optimal conditions.

Simply put, the Answer is very simple:

Shattering Blow: Increases damage against damage shields AND Blocking Targets by X% and let it scale all the way up to 35%

Increasing damage against a blocking target by 35% with 100 point in Shattering Blows puts an end to this tape your right mouse button down nonsense without putting these broken armor sets in the game like Knight Slayer that are completely broken and will have to nerfed 6 months from now when they get around to it.

This is what i mean when i say band-aid fixes and they are not addressing the problems right the 1st time....All they gotta do is making Shattering Blows increase damage done to shields and blocking targets....problem solved without any need for clearly broken sets like this.

And the enchants too. Make Oblivion go through block, remove that stupid knight set (I don't get why these sets have a DMG that can reach 9k lol . Isn't 3k free DMG enough for pvp?) and this way you can build an anti tank build.

Weps · May 2017

Oblivion damage goes through block.
Permablocking builds can be negated, you can use block-dropping CCs.
Permablocking just got nerfed badly.

The only known counter, which is not a cheap trick, to shields is Oblivion damage.
Nothing you can do about it except for just waiting for the sorc to *** up badly.

clocksstoppe · May 2017

SanTii.92 wrote: »

bursting for 6 to 8k damage every 5 or so seconds.

So just like proc sets, only the shield stacking sorcs now also get mauled. Seems fair to me tbh. Sorc needs the nerfs.

clocksstoppe · May 2017

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

stealthyevil wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

As many probably know already, knight slayer plus torug's and oblivion dmge enchants, on sword n board stamina builds are beyond broken, bursting for 6 to 8k damage every 5 or so seconds. If this goes live it will absolutely crush the meta, it just doesn't have opposition. This is why i think oblivion damage should have it 's damage affected by battle spirit and get cut in half.

Knight Slayer and Torag's are Magicka set's. Stamina sword and board with these sets makes no sense. On the other hand Shield Breaker with Viper does pull the same 6-8k damage every 5 seconds or so too.

Knight Slaye.r
(2 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka
(3 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 1064 Max Health
(5 items) Your fully-charged Heavy Attacks against Players deal and additional 9% of their Max Health as Oblivion Damage.

Torugs Pact.
(2 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(3 items) Adds 1064 Max Health
(4 items) Adds 1935 Spell Resistance
(5 items) Increases the potency of your weapon's enchantment by by 30% and reduces the cooldown on the enchantment's proc by 1 second.

For some comparison. Knight Slayer is basically an all purpose shield breaker but is dependant on the enemys hp and is for magicka users. Magicka heavy attack are slow and clunky (with staffs). 20k health will only net 2k damage per heavy attack. While Shield Breaker against shields will do 2k per light attack for stamina and they are alot faster with weaving.

In my opinion i see no issue with this set. Its just a nice counter set to high hp targets or sheild users for magicka builds.

If you cannot see how this is broken on stamina builds with other sources of "Free Damage" then I'm not sure what to tell you. There is no counter to a build stacking oblivion damage on top of other free damage sources.

Why would a stamina build use 2 magicka sets when there are 2 stamina sets that would perform better already available. Whats the counter to shield breaker against a Sorc? Wrobel once said to slot more hots on Eso live if i remember correctly. These 2 magicka sets OP is talking about are not even that bad, they are counter-able by mostly stamina builds. Its a magicka setup to kill high hp targets or shield users.

I was surprised too but this crap really works on stamina builds. It's not unbeatable but it's no fun to play against and it just promotes boring gameplay. Even really bad players can perform well on these kind of builds. In my opinion it's even time for a general heavy attack nerf (make them bashable for example).

Isn't this the whole point of pvp though? Find the most boring, cancer, OP build and tactics to crush others with? When you walk into pvp, expect to see this.

Minno · May 2017

clocksstoppe wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

bursting for 6 to 8k damage every 5 or so seconds.

So just like proc sets, only the shield stacking sorcs now also get mauled. Seems fair to me tbh. Sorc needs the nerfs.

Except those sets are terrible for game balance and don't use game mechanics to counter builds.

SanTii.92 · May 2017

clocksstoppe wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

bursting for 6 to 8k damage every 5 or so seconds.

So just like proc sets, only the shield stacking sorcs now also get mauled. Seems fair to me tbh. Sorc needs the nerfs.

Again? This setup affects the least to mag sorc and it's a direct counter to mag templar, dk and any stamina build but stamnb, and by direct counter I actually mean straight up unbeatable.

BohnT wrote: »

Those sets are very very bad in fighting anything that isn't a sorc or blazeplar.
Every other setup deals more damage, has more utility and is not pigeon holed into fighting one playstyle. These sets are already bad, don't make them worse.
For that matter, there need to be hard counters to shieldstack just like there are hard counters to any other defence

You have quite literally no idea what you are talking about.

clocksstoppe · May 2017

Minno wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

bursting for 6 to 8k damage every 5 or so seconds.

So just like proc sets, only the shield stacking sorcs now also get mauled. Seems fair to me tbh. Sorc needs the nerfs.

Except those sets are terrible for game balance and don't use game mechanics to counter builds.

They use the mechanic that you are relying on shields and aren't running good heals. Also you can just kite them since they need to land melee heavy attacks.

theamazingx · May 2017

Oblivion damage is what bosses do when the devs want a oneshot to be a oneshot. Block, resists, flat reductions, dk shell, doesn't matter. It won't get nerfed as a whole because it's literally a game mechanic.

Seems like they just wanted to buff counterplay of ultratanks amd shieldstackers. They went overboard with one single addition (knightslayer) so the focus should just be on that. I think the main problem we're seeing here is that this counterplay build will still be very affective against anyone. I'd suggest making Knightslayer only proc on blocks, in the same way shieldbreaker only pops on shields. Using both will wreck shieldstacking permablockers, but will be a waste against one or the other.

Weps · May 2017

theamazingx wrote: »

Oblivion damage is what bosses do when the devs want a oneshot to be a oneshot. Block, resists, flat reductions, dk shell, doesn't matter. It won't get nerfed as a whole because it's literally a game mechanic.

Seems like they just wanted to buff counterplay of ultratanks amd shieldstackers. They went overboard with one single addition (knightslayer) so the focus should just be on that. I think the main problem we're seeing here is that this counterplay build will still be very affective against anyone. I'd suggest making Knightslayer only proc on blocks, in the same way shieldbreaker only pops on shields. Using both will wreck shieldstacking permablockers, but will be a waste against one or the other.

To make it work only on block means it won't hit the only type of PvP tank that will survive this patch: Blazplars.

Sandman929 · May 2017

Everyone keeps bring up shieldstacking, but it doesn't seem like the free damage has anything to do with shields.

Weps · May 2017

Sandman929 wrote: »

Everyone keeps bring up shieldstacking, but it doesn't seem like the free damage has anything to do with shields.

Oblivion damage goes through everything, so this setup will also help you against shieldstackers.
It will be more effective against PvP tanks tho.

Sandman929 · May 2017

Weps wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Everyone keeps bring up shieldstacking, but it doesn't seem like the free damage has anything to do with shields.

Oblivion damage goes through everything, so this setup will also help you against shieldstackers.
It will be more effective against PvP tanks tho.

Sure it will help with shieldstackers, but it sounds like it's pretty good free damage against anyone. Blocking, shielded, tanky, or otherwise.

theamazingx · May 2017

Sandman929 wrote: »

Weps wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Everyone keeps bring up shieldstacking, but it doesn't seem like the free damage has anything to do with shields.

Oblivion damage goes through everything, so this setup will also help you against shieldstackers.
It will be more effective against PvP tanks tho.

Sure it will help with shieldstackers, but it sounds like it's pretty good free damage against anyone. Blocking, shielded, tanky, or otherwise.

It's not that it's free damage *to* shields, it just ignores the shield and hits their health directly.

Sandman929 · May 2017

theamazingx wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Weps wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Everyone keeps bring up shieldstacking, but it doesn't seem like the free damage has anything to do with shields.

Oblivion damage goes through everything, so this setup will also help you against shieldstackers.
It will be more effective against PvP tanks tho.

Sure it will help with shieldstackers, but it sounds like it's pretty good free damage against anyone. Blocking, shielded, tanky, or otherwise.

It's not that it's free damage *to* shields, it just ignores the shield and hits their health directly.

Exactly, so it's not really about countering shieldstackers. It's about free, unmitigated damage. A proc setup that can't be blocked and can be paired with another high damage 2 piece proc.

Sneaky-Snurr · May 2017

I've said this before jokingly but I can't believe that this has become a direct concern to me.

My take on all the changes is that ZOS want us to play more with LA, HA, blocks, dodge-rolls, bash in tandem to occasional skill spams. Like how the original combat system intended for us to play.
Kinda like Skyrim, Oblivion and other single-player ES games of old. I don't know what to feel about that though.

souravami · May 2017

Stop crying and l2adapt.

NBrookus · May 2017

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

I've said this before jokingly but I can't believe that this has become a direct concern to me.

My take on all the changes is that ZOS want us to play more with LA, HA, blocks, dodge-rolls, bash in tandem to occasional skill spams. Like how the original combat system intended for us to play.
Kinda like Skyrim, Oblivion and other single-player ES games of old. I don't know what to feel about that though.

So ZOS wants everyone to be stamina with all those bashes, blocks and dodges? Seems unlikely... and doesn't match Skyrim at all.

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO · May 2017

souravami wrote: »

Stop crying and l2adapt.

the people whining about it have a point..

You say adapt, but you cant adapt to Oblivion damage, maybe just dodge roll it, thats it..

Code2501 · May 2017

I'd have thought that the counter to oblivion damage is to just HOT stack. While OB dmg cant be blocked its not massively high and you can heal through. If anything a build combining OB dmg with Defile would be nastier than pure OB dmg.

Thelon · May 2017

clocksstoppe wrote: »

you can just kite them since they need to land melee heavy attacks.

NightbladeMechanics · May 2017

SanTii.92 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Oblivion damage builds. Interesting. So the removal of counterplay has come this far, that the damage type with no mitigation whatsoever can have "builds."

Knight's Slayer + Shieldbreaker with Pirate Skeleton and infused weapons and oblivion glyphs > Torug's by the way...

What's shieldbreaker gonna do vs mag dks and templars, vs pretty much any stamina char on heavy armor? No, torug's infused alone procs oblivion for 3k and reduce it's cooldown.

You don't need shieldbreaker to kill those specs. Not to mention igneous will still be used by many dks.

But keep in mind that many people will be using light armor or harness magicka on their templars and dks next patch.

And infused has a similar effect as torug's. You should be using infused with your torug's at the very least. Shieldbreaker would just be adapting to a light armor shield meta and ending fights against those builds faster.

Ishammael · May 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Oblivion damage builds. Interesting. So the removal of counterplay has come this far, that the damage type with no mitigation whatsoever can have "builds."

Knight's Slayer + Shieldbreaker with Pirate Skeleton and infused weapons and oblivion glyphs > Torug's by the way...

What's shieldbreaker gonna do vs mag dks and templars, vs pretty much any stamina char on heavy armor? No, torug's infused alone procs oblivion for 3k and reduce it's cooldown.

You don't need shieldbreaker to kill those specs. Not to mention igneous will still be used by many dks.

But keep in mind that many people will be using light armor or harness magicka on their templars and dks next patch.

And infused has a similar effect as torug's. You should be using infused with your torug's at the very least. Shieldbreaker would just be adapting to a light armor shield meta and ending fights against those builds faster.

How big is the burst on Knight + Torug + Infused + Oblivion Dmg?
What is the base dmg of the Oblivion Dmg weapon glyph? 3k?

From memory:
Infused is 40% and -1s.
Torug is 30% and -1s.

Can someone update the numbers for me? I don't have PTS installed.

arkansas_ESO · May 2017

Ishammael wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Oblivion damage builds. Interesting. So the removal of counterplay has come this far, that the damage type with no mitigation whatsoever can have "builds."

Knight's Slayer + Shieldbreaker with Pirate Skeleton and infused weapons and oblivion glyphs > Torug's by the way...

What's shieldbreaker gonna do vs mag dks and templars, vs pretty much any stamina char on heavy armor? No, torug's infused alone procs oblivion for 3k and reduce it's cooldown.

You don't need shieldbreaker to kill those specs. Not to mention igneous will still be used by many dks.

But keep in mind that many people will be using light armor or harness magicka on their templars and dks next patch.

And infused has a similar effect as torug's. You should be using infused with your torug's at the very least. Shieldbreaker would just be adapting to a light armor shield meta and ending fights against those builds faster.

How big is the burst on Knight + Torug + Infused + Oblivion Dmg?
What is the base dmg of the Oblivion Dmg weapon glyph? 3k?

From memory:
Infused is 40% and -1s.
Torug is 30% and -1s.

Can someone update the numbers for me? I don't have PTS installed.

Infused Torugs Oblivion enchant is 2.9k, but keep in mind that oblivion enchants don't have their cooldowns reduced from anything for some reason

Rinmaethodain · May 2017

Another fine result of trying to forcefully balance PVP and PVE together. Interesting thing this Oblivion damage as someone mentioned of it ignoring all resists as game mechanic (and boss one shotters).

Sneaky-Snurr · May 2017

NBrookus wrote: »

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

I've said this before jokingly but I can't believe that this has become a direct concern to me.

My take on all the changes is that ZOS want us to play more with LA, HA, blocks, dodge-rolls, bash in tandem to occasional skill spams. Like how the original combat system intended for us to play.
Kinda like Skyrim, Oblivion and other single-player ES games of old. I don't know what to feel about that though.

So ZOS wants everyone to be stamina with all those bashes, blocks and dodges? Seems unlikely... and doesn't match Skyrim at all.

@NBrookus
No.
You can light and heavy attack with staves too assuming you're a magicka-centric build. You should know that by now lol.

And which part does it not match skyrim at all?
Go ahead and play Skyrim (or Oblivion even) as a melee or a bow-equipped character and tell me that you don't do any light and/or heavy attacks for most of your attacks.
If you're playing as a caster, you definitely don't do any light or heavy attacks unless you dual wield a weapon with your spell.

And yes what I said seems unlikely but that's what I can think of with all the cost increases.
ZoS want to change the combat spectrum which is currently focused on class and all the other skilltrees' abilities to more regular attacks and occasional skill spams.

SanTii.92 · May 2017

@everyone make sure you farm this setup asap! you don't really want to arrive late to the next FotM build!!

NBrookus · May 2017

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

So ZOS wants everyone to be stamina with all those bashes, blocks and dodges? Seems unlikely... and doesn't match Skyrim at all.

Go ahead and play Skyrim...
If you're playing as a caster, you definitely don't do any light or heavy attacks unless you dual wield a weapon with your spell.

Exactly my point. Not everyone played Skyrim as a "stamina" character. And not everyone plays ESO as a stamina character where they have enough resources for frequent bashes, blocks and dodges.

BraidasNM · May 2017

Ishammael wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Oblivion damage builds. Interesting. So the removal of counterplay has come this far, that the damage type with no mitigation whatsoever can have "builds."

Knight's Slayer + Shieldbreaker with Pirate Skeleton and infused weapons and oblivion glyphs > Torug's by the way...

What's shieldbreaker gonna do vs mag dks and templars, vs pretty much any stamina char on heavy armor? No, torug's infused alone procs oblivion for 3k and reduce it's cooldown.

You don't need shieldbreaker to kill those specs. Not to mention igneous will still be used by many dks.

But keep in mind that many people will be using light armor or harness magicka on their templars and dks next patch.

And infused has a similar effect as torug's. You should be using infused with your torug's at the very least. Shieldbreaker would just be adapting to a light armor shield meta and ending fights against those builds faster.

How big is the burst on Knight + Torug + Infused + Oblivion Dmg?
What is the base dmg of the Oblivion Dmg weapon glyph? 3k?

From memory:
Infused is 40% and -1s.
Torug is 30% and -1s.

Can someone update the numbers for me? I don't have PTS installed.

does like 1/5 to 1/3 of my health if the heavy att crits and the enchant procs. pretty lame

sly007 · May 2017

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

The problem is making Armor sets like this to counter game mechanics instead of making game mechanics designed to counter play styles.

For example, back in 1.x Flame Whip, Veiled Strike, Mage's Fury, and Punturing Strikes could NOT be dodged they could only be countered by blocking(which was not a big deal back then because stamina regen while blocking)

What WAS the big deal back then was Block cast because there was no unblockable skills (except Impulse that was quickly nerfed)

The issue with Block is there are no damaging skill that ignore it, and the non-damaging skills do ignore it (Fear, Rune Cage, and Fossilize) simply are not good enough, they are quickly broken out of and back to blocking...its impossible to do significant damage to these block tanks while they hold block. With all the increased healing passives and what not, this is what we have.

Shields have Shield Breaker, Shattering Blows, and Oblivion damage enchants that either ignore shields completely or significantly increase your damage against them thus allowing you to pressure a shield user under optimal conditions.

Simply put, the Answer is very simple:

Shattering Blow: Increases damage against damage shields AND Blocking Targets by X% and let it scale all the way up to 35%

Increasing damage against a blocking target by 35% with 100 point in Shattering Blows puts an end to this tape your right mouse button down nonsense without putting these broken armor sets in the game like Knight Slayer that are completely broken and will have to nerfed 6 months from now when they get around to it.

This is what i mean when i say band-aid fixes and they are not addressing the problems right the 1st time....All they gotta do is making Shattering Blows increase damage done to shields and blocking targets....problem solved without any need for clearly broken sets like this.

This is a good suggestion. Let's see if it will be implemented in 2 more years.

Kay1 · May 2017

People complaining about a *** set.

Good way of spending time yeah.