Oblivion damage urgently needs to be affected by Battle Spirit

SanTii.92

As many probably know already, knight slayer plus torug's and oblivion dmge enchants, on sword n board stamina builds are beyond broken, bursting for 6 to 8k damage every 5 or so seconds. If this goes live it will absolutely crush the meta, it just doesn't have opposition. This is why i think oblivion damage should have it 's damage affected by battle spirit and get cut in half.

Nolic1

Some body watched Alcast new video .

SanTii.92

Nolic1 wrote: »

Some body watched Alcast new video .

nah man, i called this 5 days ago. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4096484/#Comment_4096484

MrBrandon

SanTii.92 wrote: »

As many probably know already, knight slayer plus torug's and oblivion dmge enchants, on sword n board stamina builds are beyond broken, bursting for 6 to 8k damage every 5 or so seconds. If this goes live it will absolutely crush the meta, it just doesn't have opposition. This is why i think oblivion damage should has it 's damage done affected by battle spirit and get cut by half.

Next year.

Sugaroverdose

SanTii.92 wrote: »

As many probably know already, knight slayer plus torug's and oblivion dmge enchants, on sword n board stamina builds are beyond broken, bursting for 6 to 8k damage every 5 or so seconds. If this goes live it will absolutely crush the meta, it just doesn't have opposition. This is why i think oblivion damage should have it 's damage affected by battle spirit and get cut in half.

So magicka sorcs cannot stack shields and feel awesome anymore? It's a good change, f shieldstacking

GreenSoup2HoT

Sorc's tryna nerf shield breaker..... pppppfffff

GreenSoup2HoT

SanTii.92 wrote: »

As many probably know already, knight slayer plus torug's and oblivion dmge enchants, on sword n board stamina builds are beyond broken, bursting for 6 to 8k damage every 5 or so seconds. If this goes live it will absolutely crush the meta, it just doesn't have opposition. This is why i think oblivion damage should have it 's damage affected by battle spirit and get cut in half.

Knight Slayer and Torag's are Magicka set's. Stamina sword and board with these sets makes no sense. On the other hand Shield Breaker with Viper does pull the same 6-8k damage every 5 seconds or so too.

Knight Slaye.r
(2 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka
(3 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 1064 Max Health
(5 items) Your fully-charged Heavy Attacks against Players deal and additional 9% of their Max Health as Oblivion Damage.

Torugs Pact.
(2 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(3 items) Adds 1064 Max Health
(4 items) Adds 1935 Spell Resistance
(5 items) Increases the potency of your weapon's enchantment by by 30% and reduces the cooldown on the enchantment's proc by 1 second.


For some comparison. Knight Slayer is basically an all purpose shield breaker but is dependant on the enemys hp and is for magicka users. Magicka heavy attack are slow and clunky (with staffs). 20k health will only net 2k damage per heavy attack. While Shield Breaker against shields will do 2k per light attack for stamina and they are alot faster with weaving.

In my opinion i see no issue with this set. Its just a nice counter set to high hp targets or sheild users for magicka builds.

Sugaroverdose

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

As many probably know already, knight slayer plus torug's and oblivion dmge enchants, on sword n board stamina builds are beyond broken, bursting for 6 to 8k damage every 5 or so seconds. If this goes live it will absolutely crush the meta, it just doesn't have opposition. This is why i think oblivion damage should have it 's damage affected by battle spirit and get cut in half.

Knight Slayer and Torag's are Magicka set's. Stamina sword and board with these sets makes no sense. On the other hand Shield Breaker with Viper does pull the same 6-8k damage every 5 seconds or so too.

Knight Slaye.r
(2 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka
(3 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 1064 Max Health
(5 items) Your fully-charged Heavy Attacks against Players deal and additional 9% of their Max Health as Oblivion Damage.

Torugs Pact.
(2 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(3 items) Adds 1064 Max Health
(4 items) Adds 1935 Spell Resistance
(5 items) Increases the potency of your weapon's enchantment by by 30% and reduces the cooldown on the enchantment's proc by 1 second.

Difference is - that procsets are mitigated by shields and blocking while oblivion damage bypasses shields, blocking and armor value dealing damage directly to health. Anyway, it should stay, at last there is shield breaker for magicka is available.

stealthyevil

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

As many probably know already, knight slayer plus torug's and oblivion dmge enchants, on sword n board stamina builds are beyond broken, bursting for 6 to 8k damage every 5 or so seconds. If this goes live it will absolutely crush the meta, it just doesn't have opposition. This is why i think oblivion damage should have it 's damage affected by battle spirit and get cut in half.

Knight Slayer and Torag's are Magicka set's. Stamina sword and board with these sets makes no sense. On the other hand Shield Breaker with Viper does pull the same 6-8k damage every 5 seconds or so too.

Knight Slaye.r
(2 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka
(3 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 1064 Max Health
(5 items) Your fully-charged Heavy Attacks against Players deal and additional 9% of their Max Health as Oblivion Damage.

Torugs Pact.
(2 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(3 items) Adds 1064 Max Health
(4 items) Adds 1935 Spell Resistance
(5 items) Increases the potency of your weapon's enchantment by by 30% and reduces the cooldown on the enchantment's proc by 1 second.


For some comparison. Knight Slayer is basically an all purpose shield breaker but is dependant on the enemys hp and is for magicka users. Magicka heavy attack are slow and clunky (with staffs). 20k health will only net 2k damage per heavy attack. While Shield Breaker against shields will do 2k per light attack for stamina and they are alot faster with weaving.

In my opinion i see no issue with this set. Its just a nice counter set to high hp targets or sheild users for magicka builds.

If you cannot see how this is broken on stamina builds with other sources of "Free Damage" then I'm not sure what to tell you. There is no counter to a build stacking oblivion damage on top of other free damage sources.

GreenSoup2HoT

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

As many probably know already, knight slayer plus torug's and oblivion dmge enchants, on sword n board stamina builds are beyond broken, bursting for 6 to 8k damage every 5 or so seconds. If this goes live it will absolutely crush the meta, it just doesn't have opposition. This is why i think oblivion damage should have it 's damage affected by battle spirit and get cut in half.

Knight Slayer and Torag's are Magicka set's. Stamina sword and board with these sets makes no sense. On the other hand Shield Breaker with Viper does pull the same 6-8k damage every 5 seconds or so too.

Knight Slaye.r
(2 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka
(3 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 1064 Max Health
(5 items) Your fully-charged Heavy Attacks against Players deal and additional 9% of their Max Health as Oblivion Damage.

Torugs Pact.
(2 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(3 items) Adds 1064 Max Health
(4 items) Adds 1935 Spell Resistance
(5 items) Increases the potency of your weapon's enchantment by by 30% and reduces the cooldown on the enchantment's proc by 1 second.

Difference is - that procsets are mitigated by shields and blocking while oblivion damage bypasses shields, blocking and armor value dealing damage directly to health. Anyway, it should stay, at last there is shield breaker for magicka is available.

Stamina has Shield Breaker though. You could get the same amount of Oblivion damage done on a stamina build with shieldbreaker and oblivion enchants compared to this magicka build trying to heavy attack and proc enchants with these 2 sets op is talking about together. Viper is just the cherry on top for situations where shields are not present that provides 4kish damage every 4 seconds like op has suggested (which also fires off all melee instead of just heavy attacks).

In the end, the 2 sets for magicka together potentially make a great high hp pool/shield killing build but will fall short against builds that dodge/cloak/reflect. Both set combo's similar and strong.

GreenSoup2HoT

stealthyevil wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

As many probably know already, knight slayer plus torug's and oblivion dmge enchants, on sword n board stamina builds are beyond broken, bursting for 6 to 8k damage every 5 or so seconds. If this goes live it will absolutely crush the meta, it just doesn't have opposition. This is why i think oblivion damage should have it 's damage affected by battle spirit and get cut in half.

Knight Slayer and Torag's are Magicka set's. Stamina sword and board with these sets makes no sense. On the other hand Shield Breaker with Viper does pull the same 6-8k damage every 5 seconds or so too.

Knight Slaye.r
(2 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka
(3 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 1064 Max Health
(5 items) Your fully-charged Heavy Attacks against Players deal and additional 9% of their Max Health as Oblivion Damage.

Torugs Pact.
(2 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(3 items) Adds 1064 Max Health
(4 items) Adds 1935 Spell Resistance
(5 items) Increases the potency of your weapon's enchantment by by 30% and reduces the cooldown on the enchantment's proc by 1 second.


For some comparison. Knight Slayer is basically an all purpose shield breaker but is dependant on the enemys hp and is for magicka users. Magicka heavy attack are slow and clunky (with staffs). 20k health will only net 2k damage per heavy attack. While Shield Breaker against shields will do 2k per light attack for stamina and they are alot faster with weaving.

In my opinion i see no issue with this set. Its just a nice counter set to high hp targets or sheild users for magicka builds.

If you cannot see how this is broken on stamina builds with other sources of "Free Damage" then I'm not sure what to tell you. There is no counter to a build stacking oblivion damage on top of other free damage sources.

Why would a stamina build use 2 magicka sets when there are 2 stamina sets that would perform better already available. Whats the counter to shield breaker against a Sorc? Wrobel once said to slot more hots on Eso live if i remember correctly. These 2 magicka sets OP is talking about are not even that bad, they are counter-able by mostly stamina builds. Its a magicka setup to kill high hp targets or shield users.

NightbladeMechanics

Oblivion damage builds. Interesting. So the removal of counterplay has come this far, that the damage type with no mitigation whatsoever can have "builds."

Knight's Slayer + Shieldbreaker with Pirate Skeleton and infused weapons and oblivion glyphs > Torug's by the way...

stealthyevil

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

stealthyevil wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

As many probably know already, knight slayer plus torug's and oblivion dmge enchants, on sword n board stamina builds are beyond broken, bursting for 6 to 8k damage every 5 or so seconds. If this goes live it will absolutely crush the meta, it just doesn't have opposition. This is why i think oblivion damage should have it 's damage affected by battle spirit and get cut in half.

Knight Slayer and Torag's are Magicka set's. Stamina sword and board with these sets makes no sense. On the other hand Shield Breaker with Viper does pull the same 6-8k damage every 5 seconds or so too.

Knight Slaye.r
(2 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka
(3 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 1064 Max Health
(5 items) Your fully-charged Heavy Attacks against Players deal and additional 9% of their Max Health as Oblivion Damage.

Torugs Pact.
(2 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(3 items) Adds 1064 Max Health
(4 items) Adds 1935 Spell Resistance
(5 items) Increases the potency of your weapon's enchantment by by 30% and reduces the cooldown on the enchantment's proc by 1 second.


For some comparison. Knight Slayer is basically an all purpose shield breaker but is dependant on the enemys hp and is for magicka users. Magicka heavy attack are slow and clunky (with staffs). 20k health will only net 2k damage per heavy attack. While Shield Breaker against shields will do 2k per light attack for stamina and they are alot faster with weaving.

In my opinion i see no issue with this set. Its just a nice counter set to high hp targets or sheild users for magicka builds.

If you cannot see how this is broken on stamina builds with other sources of "Free Damage" then I'm not sure what to tell you. There is no counter to a build stacking oblivion damage on top of other free damage sources.

Why would a stamina build use 2 magicka sets when there are 2 stamina sets that would perform better already available. Whats the counter to shield breaker against a Sorc? Wrobel once said to slot more hots on Eso live if i remember correctly. These 2 magicka sets OP is talking about are not even that bad, they are counter-able by mostly stamina builds. Its a magicka setup to kill high hp targets or shield users.

I did not want to have to spell it out and futher infect PvP with more cancerous bullshti that continue to destroy this game, but just imagine knight slayer/torug paired with a 2pc proc set, as well as viper. It is all instant free damage, and oblivion damage is uncounterable.

SanTii.92

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

stealthyevil wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

As many probably know already, knight slayer plus torug's and oblivion dmge enchants, on sword n board stamina builds are beyond broken, bursting for 6 to 8k damage every 5 or so seconds. If this goes live it will absolutely crush the meta, it just doesn't have opposition. This is why i think oblivion damage should have it 's damage affected by battle spirit and get cut in half.

Knight Slayer and Torag's are Magicka set's. Stamina sword and board with these sets makes no sense. On the other hand Shield Breaker with Viper does pull the same 6-8k damage every 5 seconds or so too.

Knight Slaye.r
(2 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka
(3 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 1064 Max Health
(5 items) Your fully-charged Heavy Attacks against Players deal and additional 9% of their Max Health as Oblivion Damage.

Torugs Pact.
(2 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(3 items) Adds 1064 Max Health
(4 items) Adds 1935 Spell Resistance
(5 items) Increases the potency of your weapon's enchantment by by 30% and reduces the cooldown on the enchantment's proc by 1 second.


For some comparison. Knight Slayer is basically an all purpose shield breaker but is dependant on the enemys hp and is for magicka users. Magicka heavy attack are slow and clunky (with staffs). 20k health will only net 2k damage per heavy attack. While Shield Breaker against shields will do 2k per light attack for stamina and they are alot faster with weaving.

In my opinion i see no issue with this set. Its just a nice counter set to high hp targets or sheild users for magicka builds.

If you cannot see how this is broken on stamina builds with other sources of "Free Damage" then I'm not sure what to tell you. There is no counter to a build stacking oblivion damage on top of other free damage sources.

Why would a stamina build use 2 magicka sets when there are 2 stamina sets that would perform better already available. Whats the counter to shield breaker against a Sorc? Wrobel once said to slot more hots on Eso live if i remember correctly. These 2 magicka sets OP is talking about are not even that bad, they are counter-able by mostly stamina builds. Its a magicka setup to kill high hp targets or shield users.

This has nothing to do with sorcs, the setup affects the most agaisnt other stamina duelers or magicka tanks with 23k+ hp who are on your face all the time.

in fact sorcs would have a way better time since they'll be able to at least kite some.

This are magicka sets but build into stamina tanks chars that purely rely on spaming full heavys.

It's obvious that you have never face this build, and purely talking from a theoretical point of view. Once this launches you'll wish you would have listen.

Maybe @ShalidorsHeir could comment on this, since knows much more about it than me.

SanTii.92

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Oblivion damage builds. Interesting. So the removal of counterplay has come this far, that the damage type with no mitigation whatsoever can have "builds."

Knight's Slayer + Shieldbreaker with Pirate Skeleton and infused weapons and oblivion glyphs > Torug's by the way...

What's shieldbreaker gonna do vs mag dks and templars, vs pretty much any stamina char on heavy armor? No, torug's infused alone procs oblivion for 3k and reduce it's cooldown.

Asgari

The thing is with knights and torugs you can be stamina and not worry about your armor bonuses because the procs of oblivion are better than viper and the others.

It's really bad on pts fighting players with this.

Xsorus

From what I read oblivion damage is absorbed by shields, its only shield breaker that ignores it.

arkansas_ESO

Xsorus wrote: »

From what I read oblivion damage is absorbed by shields, its only shield breaker that ignores it.

All Oblivion damage ignores shields, resist values, and temporary damage reduction buffs like Mist Form

Xsorus

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

From what I read oblivion damage is absorbed by shields, its only shield breaker that ignores it.

All Oblivion damage ignores shields, resist values, and temporary damage reduction buffs like Mist Form

Have you actually tested this? Cause like I said from what I've read this is not the case.

Poliwrath

Xsorus wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

From what I read oblivion damage is absorbed by shields, its only shield breaker that ignores it.

All Oblivion damage ignores shields, resist values, and temporary damage reduction buffs like Mist Form

Have you actually tested this? Cause like I said from what I've read this is not the case.

yes, it ignores shields. if you read shieldbreaker it just says "oblivion dmg" now, no mention of shields.

regardless, i can tell u from experience it does.

Xsorus

Poliwrath wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

From what I read oblivion damage is absorbed by shields, its only shield breaker that ignores it.

All Oblivion damage ignores shields, resist values, and temporary damage reduction buffs like Mist Form

Have you actually tested this? Cause like I said from what I've read this is not the case.

yes, it ignores shields. if you read shieldbreaker it just says "oblivion dmg" now, no mention of shields.

regardless, i can tell u from experience it does.

Yea signed in and tested it real quick.

Welp get ready for some Magicka DK spamming *** on ya next patch.

It doesn't seem like its going to be super great on Stamina Builds, But Sorcs are going to have annoying time.

Anyone know if Viper still goes through shields with Shield Breaker?

Feanor

No. We're getting near perfection. Soon we'll all have an instant "I win" button and whoever presses first wins. No more sets, weapons or balance needed. Granted, the whining still won't stop, but that's another story.

Xsorus

Will be swapping on Troll Kings on my Sorc to help with this lol

Ragnaroek93

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

stealthyevil wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

As many probably know already, knight slayer plus torug's and oblivion dmge enchants, on sword n board stamina builds are beyond broken, bursting for 6 to 8k damage every 5 or so seconds. If this goes live it will absolutely crush the meta, it just doesn't have opposition. This is why i think oblivion damage should have it 's damage affected by battle spirit and get cut in half.

Knight Slayer and Torag's are Magicka set's. Stamina sword and board with these sets makes no sense. On the other hand Shield Breaker with Viper does pull the same 6-8k damage every 5 seconds or so too.

Knight Slaye.r
(2 items) Adds 967 Max Magicka
(3 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 1064 Max Health
(5 items) Your fully-charged Heavy Attacks against Players deal and additional 9% of their Max Health as Oblivion Damage.

Torugs Pact.
(2 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(3 items) Adds 1064 Max Health
(4 items) Adds 1935 Spell Resistance
(5 items) Increases the potency of your weapon's enchantment by by 30% and reduces the cooldown on the enchantment's proc by 1 second.


For some comparison. Knight Slayer is basically an all purpose shield breaker but is dependant on the enemys hp and is for magicka users. Magicka heavy attack are slow and clunky (with staffs). 20k health will only net 2k damage per heavy attack. While Shield Breaker against shields will do 2k per light attack for stamina and they are alot faster with weaving.

In my opinion i see no issue with this set. Its just a nice counter set to high hp targets or sheild users for magicka builds.

If you cannot see how this is broken on stamina builds with other sources of "Free Damage" then I'm not sure what to tell you. There is no counter to a build stacking oblivion damage on top of other free damage sources.

Why would a stamina build use 2 magicka sets when there are 2 stamina sets that would perform better already available. Whats the counter to shield breaker against a Sorc? Wrobel once said to slot more hots on Eso live if i remember correctly. These 2 magicka sets OP is talking about are not even that bad, they are counter-able by mostly stamina builds. Its a magicka setup to kill high hp targets or shield users.

I was surprised too but this crap really works on stamina builds. It's not unbeatable but it's no fun to play against and it just promotes boring gameplay. Even really bad players can perform well on these kind of builds. In my opinion it's even time for a general heavy attack nerf (make them bashable for example).

BohnT

Those sets are very very bad in fighting anything that isn't a sorc or blazeplar.
Every other setup deals more damage, has more utility and is not pigeon holed into fighting one playstyle. These sets are already bad, don't make them worse.
For that matter, there need to be hard counters to shieldstack just like there are hard counters to any other defence

GreenSoup2HoT

Just doesnt sound good on paper is all. Someome post some duel videos with this stuff.

Lord_Umbranox

I already suggested it in other discussion:

Since set is called "Knight Slayer" and this set was designed to fight tanky players with high health, why not add an extra condition to the proc:

(5 items) Your fully charged Heavy Attacks against Players with Max Health higher than (X) deal an additional 9% of their Max Health as Oblivion Damage

This will keep this set in line with similar set "Shield Breaker", which has a condition where Damage Shield should be applied to target player.

Now most players run builds with Health Pool somewhere between 20-35K Health. Even if the guy has tape over his Block button - it's OK, you can fight that. The problem arises when players begin to stack ridiculous amounts of health like with 60K+ BlazPlars. Since this set was created to fight those type of builds, (X) could be at something like 35-40K+ Max Health. This will keep set usable in situations it's designed for and fix the problem with stacking it with Unresistable Damage Enchants and Shield Beaker Set on low-health Light/Medium armor builds.

SodanTok

It does not.

It was not OP before... so find what changed (knight slayer) and nerf that

arkansas_ESO

Lord_Umbranox wrote: »

I already suggested it in other discussion:

Since set is called "Knight Slayer" and this set was designed to fight tanky players with high health, why not add an extra condition to the proc:

(5 items) Your fully charged Heavy Attacks against Players with Max Health higher than (X) deal an additional 9% of their Max Health as Oblivion Damage

This will keep this set in line with similar set "Shield Breaker", which has a condition where Damage Shield should be applied to target player.

Now most players run builds with Health Pool somewhere between 20-35K Health. Even if the guy has tape over his Block button - it's OK, you can fight that. The problem arises when players begin to stack ridiculous amounts of health like with 60K+ BlazPlars. Since this set was created to fight those type of builds, (X) could be at something like 35-40K+ Max Health. This will keep set usable in situations it's designed for and fix the problem with stacking it with Unresistable Damage Enchants and Shield Beaker Set on low-health Light/Medium armor builds.

Most PVP tanks don't stack health past 30k unless they're a blazing shield build and as it stands on PTS the only way to kill a tank before he gets your flag back to his base is to either stack curses on him or proc him down with Knight Slayer. This set shouldn't be changed until tank builds are

Weps

PvP tanks have HP between 40 and 45k.
Blazing shields tank start from 55 to 75 even 80k HP.

With 30k you're not a tank, you're a heavy armor wearer

RinaldoGandolphi

The problem is making Armor sets like this to counter game mechanics instead of making game mechanics designed to counter play styles.

For example, back in 1.x Flame Whip, Veiled Strike, Mage's Fury, and Punturing Strikes could NOT be dodged they could only be countered by blocking(which was not a big deal back then because stamina regen while blocking)

What WAS the big deal back then was Block cast because there was no unblockable skills (except Impulse that was quickly nerfed)

The issue with Block is there are no damaging skill that ignore it, and the non-damaging skills do ignore it (Fear, Rune Cage, and Fossilize) simply are not good enough, they are quickly broken out of and back to blocking...its impossible to do significant damage to these block tanks while they hold block. With all the increased healing passives and what not, this is what we have.

Shields have Shield Breaker, Shattering Blows, and Oblivion damage enchants that either ignore shields completely or significantly increase your damage against them thus allowing you to pressure a shield user under optimal conditions.

Simply put, the Answer is very simple:

Shattering Blow: Increases damage against damage shields AND Blocking Targets by X% and let it scale all the way up to 35%

Increasing damage against a blocking target by 35% with 100 point in Shattering Blows puts an end to this tape your right mouse button down nonsense without putting these broken armor sets in the game like Knight Slayer that are completely broken and will have to nerfed 6 months from now when they get around to it.

This is what i mean when i say band-aid fixes and they are not addressing the problems right the 1st time....All they gotta do is making Shattering Blows increase damage done to shields and blocking targets....problem solved without any need for clearly broken sets like this.