Do i see this right? Only 1-2 patches left to listen to "feedback"

Teridaxus · May 2017

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4107501#Comment_4107501

There is basicly one major maintaince left ( 15.5. Monday next week ). They also might push another patch in the next week thought overtime, but that was it then?
And then no changes until late summer - fall when the next bigger patch comes since zos doesn't know whats fine tuning is?

Greydir · May 2017

Gina already said, that the next PTS iteration will be the last before release, so yes your assumptions should be quite correct.

tinythinker · May 2017

Early access is May 22nd, formal launch is June 6th, so any significant changes before then have to be next week. They always put out small tweak patches on a regular basis, but they won't make serious changes right after people start logging into the game as returners or new players for Morrowind.

I'm surprised they decided to change so much at the same time Morrowind drops, as it provided a large potential for negative coverage rather than just a straight hype push.

Docmandu · May 2017

I'm shocked that this still surprises you.

Turelus · May 2017

tinythinker wrote: »

Early access is May 22nd, formal launch is June 6th, so any significant changes before then have to be next week. They always put out small tweak patches on a regular basis, but they won't make serious changes right after people start logging into the game as returners or new players for Morrowind.

I'm surprised they decided to change so much at the same time Morrowind drops, as it provided a large potential for negative coverage rather than just a straight hype push.

It's only negative to those playing now and not being willing to adapt.

New players or returning players won't know how sustain has changed, nor have much idea how class skills just changed.

Old players have been screaming they'll quit for weeks now and ignoring videos like Alcast's where he's doing Morrowind DPS parses and showing how sustain isn't really that bad if you can change a few things.

The only bad press will come from quest bugs and the like, as was the same with live launch.

Narvuntien · May 2017

I really think they aren't ready, but I am pretty sure running into hard deadlines before you are ready seems to be a common thing in game designing.

Not just the balanced changes...

Yeah the Alcast videos are pretty promising actually, sure there is a DPS drop, but a single mag/stam regen enchant is enough to sustain with only a few heavy attacks. 30k dps now the norm.

What we can't know is how it affects healing and tanking, target dummies aren't that useful for that.

Teridaxus · May 2017

Narvuntien wrote: »

I really think they aren't ready, but I am pretty sure running into hard deadlines before you are ready seems to be a common thing in game designing.

Not just the balanced changes...

Yeah the Alcast videos are pretty promising actually, sure there is a DPS drop, but a single mag/stam regen enchant is enough to sustain with only a few heavy attacks. 30k dps now the norm.

What we can't know is how it affects healing and tanking, target dummies aren't that useful for that.

Yes, im aware about the awful deadline policy nowadays, but the release date is the 6.6 and yet they had to push this even earlier.

I'm not even talking about balance alone, morrowind is still quiet buggy, same as the warden and yet they push it even faster instead of the opposite, taking more time.

Biro123 · May 2017

They listen to feedback - Most changes from it won't be ready before golive - but it doesn't mean they aren't 'in the works' and won't come with a future patch. Some may be several months away, depending on the nature of the change.

Software development takes time if you don't want it all to be a sloppy mess.

CultOfMMO · May 2017

Biro123 wrote: »

Software development takes time if you don't want it all to be a sloppy mess.

As if anything they released after being in development for ages isn't a sloppy mess

And that's if they even declare that development is ongoing, otherwise they consistently fail to address or even acknowledge a whole bunch of issues the players have been complaining about for months.

Meanwhile every single patch note you will find a whole list of bug "fixes" that you never even knew existed, and would never even break the game in any meaningful, or even trivial, way.

Not quite sure how anyone can possibly come to the conclusion that ZOS has the community's best interest in mind, it seems like they have infused the essence of Morrowind with their ego and they're dying to protect it.

jakeedmundson · May 2017

Turelus wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

Early access is May 22nd, formal launch is June 6th, so any significant changes before then have to be next week. They always put out small tweak patches on a regular basis, but they won't make serious changes right after people start logging into the game as returners or new players for Morrowind.

I'm surprised they decided to change so much at the same time Morrowind drops, as it provided a large potential for negative coverage rather than just a straight hype push.

It's only negative to those playing now and not being willing to adapt.

New players or returning players won't know how sustain has changed, nor have much idea how class skills just changed.

Old players have been screaming they'll quit for weeks now and ignoring videos like Alcast's where he's doing Morrowind DPS parses and showing how sustain isn't really that bad if you can change a few things.

The only bad press will come from quest bugs and the like, as was the same with live launch.

I'm not picking on you specifically here, i just keep seeing these things in the forums.
The constant battle between the optimists and pessimists... i'm somewhere in between.
i love playing this game... but i'm not excited about this update (like many others)
But i'm sticking around until after the patch and playing for a few weeks before i decided to jump ship or buy morrowind.

Anyway... to reply. Why should anyone be excited about relearning to play the exact same game...It's not the fact the people need to adjust. It's that it doesn't even feel like the same game on the pts.
Have you read anything from joy_division or missbiz about vma? It's a total S#*t show. Farm new sets, change CP, change glyphs... all that work for your character progression and working knowledge goes out the window.

Relearning the entire combat system after morrowind patch will be like being forced to walk backwards in your home from now on. "You just need to adjust! you had it too easy with all that 'forward' stuff you were doing"

It's funny for people to keep quoting one or two player's dps parses (btw Alcast is an elite, absolute top tier player)
It's also funny that he did this dps on a dummy.... how much moving, sprinting, dodge rolling, shielding, etc did he do during that time? .....zero. Add those things into the test or just show a real trail/dungeon fight to prove the sustain.
Real dps for any trial if HE can hit 30k on the dummy... will be more like 20-25k for him (not counting buffs). For anyone that is not a top elite player... sub 20k is more realistic.

argouru · May 2017

[/quote]
It's only negative to those playing now and not being willing to adapt.

New players or returning players won't know how sustain has changed, nor have much idea how class skills just changed.

Old players have been screaming they'll quit for weeks now and ignoring videos like Alcast's where he's doing Morrowind DPS parses and showing how sustain isn't really that bad if you can change a few things.

The only bad press will come from quest bugs and the like, as was the same with live launch.[/quote]

I'm not picking on you specifically here, i just keep seeing these things in the forums.
The constant battle between the optimists and pessimists... i'm somewhere in between.
i love playing this game... but i'm not excited about this update (like many others)
But i'm sticking around until after the patch and playing for a few weeks before i decided to jump ship or buy morrowind.

Anyway... to reply. Why should anyone be excited about relearning to play the exact same game...It's not the fact the people need to adjust. It's that it doesn't even feel like the same game on the pts.
Have you read anything from joy_division or missbiz about vma? It's a total S#*t show. Farm new sets, change CP, change glyphs... all that work for your character progression and working knowledge goes out the window.

Relearning the entire combat system after morrowind patch will be like being forced to walk backwards in your home from now on. "You just need to adjust! you had it too easy with all that 'forward' stuff you were doing"

It's funny for people to keep quoting one or two player's dps parses (btw Alcast is an elite, absolute top tier player)
It's also funny that he did this dps on a dummy.... how much moving, sprinting, dodge rolling, shielding, etc did he do during that time? .....zero. Add those things into the test or just show a real trail/dungeon fight to prove the sustain.
Real dps for any trial if HE can hit 30k on the dummy... will be more like 20-25k for him (not counting buffs). For anyone that is not a top elite player... sub 20k is more realistic.[/quote]

Exactly. Fighting a test dummy is completely different from fighting a vet-level boss and that's a fact too many people gloss over. A real fight takes a much greater toll on resources, but few people seem willing to acknowledge that fact.

Nolic1 · May 2017

jakeedmundson wrote: »

It's funny for people to keep quoting one or two player's dps parses (btw Alcast is an elite, absolute top tier player) It's also funny that he did this dps on a dummy.... how much moving, sprinting, dodge rolling, shielding, etc did he do during that time? .....zero. Add those things into the test or just show a real trail/dungeon fight to prove the sustain. Real dps for any trial if HE can hit 30k on the dummy... will be more like 20-25k for him (not counting buffs). For anyone that is not a top elite player... sub 20k is more realistic.

I have to agree on the test dummy they do not fight back so you can not say the test are accurate.

aeowulf · May 2017

he also does not test changes that affect other places, like NB tanking.

Elsonso · May 2017

mzapkeneb18_ESO wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4107501#Comment_4107501

There is basicly one major maintaince left ( 15.5. Monday next week ). They also might push another patch in the next week thought overtime, but that was it then?
And then no changes until late summer - fall when the next bigger patch comes since zos doesn't know whats fine tuning is?

The avalanche has started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.

Lucky28 · May 2017

tinythinker wrote: »

Early access is May 22nd, formal launch is June 6th, so any significant changes before then have to be next week. They always put out small tweak patches on a regular basis, but they won't make serious changes right after people start logging into the game as returners or new players for Morrowind.

I'm surprised they decided to change so much at the same time Morrowind drops, as it provided a large potential for negative coverage rather than just a straight hype push.

yeah, i think the patch itself was a really dumb idea. i mean how many sales did they miss out on because of the changes themselves. like i was fully intending on buying Morrowind playing the warden a little bit but mostly fighting against the warden on my main magblade then the PTS came out i laughed a little bit and said: "yeah right, have fun with that" i mean no way am i going to pay money to support this boring ass patch, get outta here.

Ah ZOS you amuse me in all the wrong ways.

Turelus wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

Early access is May 22nd, formal launch is June 6th, so any significant changes before then have to be next week. They always put out small tweak patches on a regular basis, but they won't make serious changes right after people start logging into the game as returners or new players for Morrowind.

I'm surprised they decided to change so much at the same time Morrowind drops, as it provided a large potential for negative coverage rather than just a straight hype push.

It's only negative to those playing now and not being willing to adapt.

New players or returning players won't know how sustain has changed, nor have much idea how class skills just changed.

Old players have been screaming they'll quit for weeks now and ignoring videos like Alcast's where he's doing Morrowind DPS parses and showing how sustain isn't really that bad if you can change a few things.

The only bad press will come from quest bugs and the like, as was the same with live launch.

no it's negative because people find the gameplay boring, dull and lacking no amount of adapting is going to change this.

DHale · May 2017

Expect it to come out broken. As they have said before they are too far in the development cycle to make dramatic changes. Not sure why you are surprised though.

Pallio · May 2017

They really only listen to the feedback that says "Nerf everyone cause PVP is too hard."

Otherwise they don't care.

Dantaria · May 2017

Turelus wrote: »

Old players have been screaming they'll quit for weeks now and ignoring videos like Alcast's where he's doing Morrowind DPS parses and showing how sustain isn't really that bad if you can change a few things.

So. Much. LOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERcZznUKCdw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fU0cS4Rb5tY

Minimal DPS requirement for vMoL is 30k. Exceptionally good, maxed-out player with all the BiS gear is now hitting just above minimum DPS vMoL requirement. Are you for real saying that this isn't bad? Like... for real?

Narvuntien wrote: »

Yeah the Alcast videos are pretty promising actually, sure there is a DPS drop, but a single mag/stam regen enchant is enough to sustain with only a few heavy attacks. 30k dps now the norm.

The content isn't changed. Wake up, people! The content isn't changed.

30k Alcast DPS = 25k max for the majority of playerbase. 25k max on 630CP. You can strive for 30k if you farm your mind out. And at that point you might attempt vMoL.

vCoAII is generally considered to be CP300+ dung. Now? 500CP+ or gtfo.

Minimum DPS for Craglorn vTrials is 20k. At 20k you can be sure that you will complete it, it's enough for Varlariel, etc. What, more 500CP+ instances?

Screw you, average players, who want to try some end-game content. Grind 500CP, farm gear, then come back.

Just. Great.

mandricus · May 2017

It is quite incredible how software development companies are consistent into making every time the same mistakes. They never learn. Pushing a product like this on the market while it is still not at "production ready" state, just to meet a deadline that someone in the marketing department has decided, despite any evidence (and probably against devs team will, as I know how things in software development works) it is just stupid. Go on Google and search "elder scroll online review". You will still find on the top results the bad reviews this game had at launch, despite the fact that, since launch, it improved tremendously, and today it is for sure a better game. Now think at how many people may be thought about giving it a shot, went on Google and searched that query, and after reading the bad reviews (even if they are talking about a game that no longer exist in that state) decided to try something else. This is the kind of impact of such poor management decisions. Today we are living again the same story, as usual. Someone in the marketing department has tied his yearly bonus on this deadline, can't accept any negotiation on that date, so now developers are under the gun because some boss can't lose his bonus, and can't delay the launch date. Almost everyone in the dev team knows that this is a derailed train that will wreck into pieces at launch date, and yet nobody can pull the emergency brake, because nobody in the marketing department will listen anyway. Sad story, working in the IT industry I see this stories almost everyday, and yet I find incredible how almost everyone is making the same mistakes over and over again and never learn.
Let's wait for Morrowind reviews and prepare for Armageddon. If I were an ESO developer, I should be revamping my LinkedIn profile.

Jeremiah87 · May 2017

Dantaria wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Old players have been screaming they'll quit for weeks now and ignoring videos like Alcast's where he's doing Morrowind DPS parses and showing how sustain isn't really that bad if you can change a few things.

So. Much. LOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERcZznUKCdw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fU0cS4Rb5tY

Minimal DPS requirement for vMoL is 30k. Exceptionally good, maxed-out player with all the BiS gear is now hitting just above minimum DPS vMoL requirement. Are you for real saying that this isn't bad? Like... for real?

Narvuntien wrote: »

Yeah the Alcast videos are pretty promising actually, sure there is a DPS drop, but a single mag/stam regen enchant is enough to sustain with only a few heavy attacks. 30k dps now the norm.

The content isn't changed. Wake up, people! The content isn't changed.

30k Alcast DPS = 25k max for the majority of playerbase. 25k max on 630CP. You can strive for 30k if you farm your mind out. And at that point you might attempt vMoL.

vCoAII is generally considered to be CP300+ dung. Now? 500CP+ or gtfo.

Minimum DPS for Craglorn vTrials is 20k. At 20k you can be sure that you will complete it, it's enough for Varlariel, etc. What, more 500CP+ instances?

Screw you, average players, who want to try some end-game content. Grind 500CP, farm gear, then come back.

Just. Great.

I agree, these changes hurt the average Joe kind of player as well as the competent but not pro/competitive player A LOT.

Nebthet78 · May 2017

Dantaria wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Old players have been screaming they'll quit for weeks now and ignoring videos like Alcast's where he's doing Morrowind DPS parses and showing how sustain isn't really that bad if you can change a few things.

So. Much. LOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERcZznUKCdw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fU0cS4Rb5tY

Minimal DPS requirement for vMoL is 30k. Exceptionally good, maxed-out player with all the BiS gear is now hitting just above minimum DPS vMoL requirement. Are you for real saying that this isn't bad? Like... for real?

Narvuntien wrote: »

Yeah the Alcast videos are pretty promising actually, sure there is a DPS drop, but a single mag/stam regen enchant is enough to sustain with only a few heavy attacks. 30k dps now the norm.

The content isn't changed. Wake up, people! The content isn't changed.

30k Alcast DPS = 25k max for the majority of playerbase. 25k max on 630CP. You can strive for 30k if you farm your mind out. And at that point you might attempt vMoL.

vCoAII is generally considered to be CP300+ dung. Now? 500CP+ or gtfo.

Minimum DPS for Craglorn vTrials is 20k. At 20k you can be sure that you will complete it, it's enough for Varlariel, etc. What, more 500CP+ instances?

Screw you, average players, who want to try some end-game content. Grind 500CP, farm gear, then come back.

Just. Great.

This is part of the problem!! The fact that all these Trials and Dungeons were made harder BECAUSE of the CP Power Creep in previous updates, have not had their content dialed back to compensate for the significant resource reduction and DPS loss we are being handed.

If they don't lower the HP of the Trials bosses and the damage they do by approx 30% or so in the current LIVE versions, then all they've ended up doing in raising the ceiling even more than it is now, while lowering the floor even further, thus making it much, much harder for casuals and new players to ever reach the level of Elite players like Alcast.

Casuals and new players are not going to spend the time it is going to take to get a rotation down to be able to do this type of content and current players are sick and tired of having to grind to get back to where they are currently with each update.
They want to play the game for fun. Only those is serious raiding groups are EVER going to put in the time to do this. Casuals and newer players would rather leave the game for another that is easier, fun, and doesn't have their progress taken away every six months.

You also cannot judge the difficulty of this game by it's overland content. Overland content by design is very easy and story oriented. With this update it will be a little harder, which is ok actually, as it will force some people to start paying attention to the mechanics, but it is the Vet group dungeons and Trials they NEED to be adjusted if they have any hope in retaining a large amount of their current player base. You can't keep taking players progress away over and over again and expect them to keep having fun. Eventually they get fed up and leave.

With them releasing this a week early, I really, really hope the forums EXPLODE with player discontent! I hope they get overrun with in game feedback telling them how much they suck! No amount of nostalgia for Morrowind can compensate for the crap. I hope it causes a lot of players to cancel their Morrowind pre-orders before they ship or the official release date.
(Though I can't help but thing that this early release date is ZOS's underhanded way to get as much money as they can and prevent players from cancelling just before release date).

It almost feels like ZOS is purposely trying to kill this game with the decisions they are making. I get their marketing is trying to cater to those players who come in and get the new content and leave, and I can understand releasing content around that expectation, but you CAN'T handicap your more loyal players who stick around playing the same content over and over again, and not expect some serious repercussions, and that's what they are doing

I don't think ZOS realizes just how much those players who stick around like the raiding guilds, etc, have an affect on just how influential they are in a game like this.
So ok, we will see a large spike in players coming in to play the Morrowind content. ZOS will play this up as if it's a great success. That will last about a month, then when returning players see how badly they are nerfed due to the overboard resource changes and if ZOS doesn't fix things very, very quickly, the drop off of players leaving is going to much, much more significant than if they had actually made more reasonable changes and listen to the vast majority of players on this forum Like Joy and Uriel, who are telling them their changes are taking the fun out of the game.

To fix this, and to help with all future balances around CP ZOS really only needs to do a couple of things.
- Reverse the changes to armor set passives and skills in relation to cost increases and resource recovery.
- Raise Armor level cap to 300CP to match end game Vet Pledge and Trials bosses.
- Add soft caps back into the game

They really need to do this for the last PTS... Whomever is making the decisions for them over there is extremely short sighted. A quick influx of money now does not equal success. Kind of like burst damage. Unless you can sustain your resources, no amount of damage you do in small bursts is going to do is going to keep you alive.

Biro123 · May 2017

CultOfMMO wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

Software development takes time if you don't want it all to be a sloppy mess.

As if anything they released after being in development for ages isn't a sloppy mess

And that's if they even declare that development is ongoing, otherwise they consistently fail to address or even acknowledge a whole bunch of issues the players have been complaining about for months.

Meanwhile every single patch note you will find a whole list of bug "fixes" that you never even knew existed, and would never even break the game in any meaningful, or even trivial, way.

Not quite sure how anyone can possibly come to the conclusion that ZOS has the community's best interest in mind, it seems like they have infused the essence of Morrowind with their ego and they're dying to protect it.

Ah, see, now your version of a sloppy mess is a few balance issues. Mine is servers coming down constantly, client freezing, data corruption causing rollbacks, losing characters etc.. Which could all happen as a result of rushed changes.

Elsonso · May 2017

mandricus wrote: »

If I were an ESO developer, I should be revamping my LinkedIn profile.

Yes, they should be. Working for ZOS on ESO is what they want to be bragging about.

Marto · May 2017

This was going to be the case, regardless of whether it released on May 22nd, or June 6th.

There's a two-week verification process by Microsoft and Sony.

And yes, that means that every single patch released in the last 2 years... was ready for PC two weeks before the console one. Homestead, One Tamriel, Shadows of the Hist... you name it. They could have released 2 weeks before, but ZOS refused to, because of console parity.

In my eyes, this is a good move by them. Giving PC players the patch whenever its ready.

Elsonso · May 2017

Marto wrote: »

This was going to be the case, regardless of whether it released on May 22nd, or June 6th.

There's a two-week verification process by Microsoft and Sony.

In my eyes, this is a good move by them. Giving PC players the patch whenever its ready.

Yes.

However, ZOS routinely stages the console release after the PC/Mac release. It was a surprise when they announced that they were going to do it the same day. Of course, knowing the certification process that they follow, the question has always been what PC/Mac is going to do for 2 weeks while consoles are getting certified. Personally, it makes no difference to me, as a PC or PS4 player. Either way, PC is going to be two weeks, possibly 2 patches, ahead of console.

BenzZos · May 2017

I wonder how many people who are hopeful that the changes won't be that bad won't be able to complete a vet dungeon or trial ever again... I mean never as in they would need to spend the next 6 months grinding for BiS golded sets at 600cp...

Sugaroverdose · May 2017

Dantaria wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Old players have been screaming they'll quit for weeks now and ignoring videos like Alcast's where he's doing Morrowind DPS parses and showing how sustain isn't really that bad if you can change a few things.

So. Much. LOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERcZznUKCdw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fU0cS4Rb5tY

Minimal DPS requirement for vMoL is 30k. Exceptionally good, maxed-out player with all the BiS gear is now hitting just above minimum DPS vMoL requirement. Are you for real saying that this isn't bad? Like... for real?

Narvuntien wrote: »

Yeah the Alcast videos are pretty promising actually, sure there is a DPS drop, but a single mag/stam regen enchant is enough to sustain with only a few heavy attacks. 30k dps now the norm.

The content isn't changed. Wake up, people! The content isn't changed.

30k Alcast DPS = 25k max for the majority of playerbase. 25k max on 630CP. You can strive for 30k if you farm your mind out. And at that point you might attempt vMoL.

vCoAII is generally considered to be CP300+ dung. Now? 500CP+ or gtfo.

Minimum DPS for Craglorn vTrials is 20k. At 20k you can be sure that you will complete it, it's enough for Varlariel, etc. What, more 500CP+ instances?

Screw you, average players, who want to try some end-game content. Grind 500CP, farm gear, then come back.

Just. Great.

So requirements will be lowered, that's it

Nebthet78 · May 2017

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Dantaria wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Old players have been screaming they'll quit for weeks now and ignoring videos like Alcast's where he's doing Morrowind DPS parses and showing how sustain isn't really that bad if you can change a few things.

So. Much. LOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERcZznUKCdw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fU0cS4Rb5tY

Minimal DPS requirement for vMoL is 30k. Exceptionally good, maxed-out player with all the BiS gear is now hitting just above minimum DPS vMoL requirement. Are you for real saying that this isn't bad? Like... for real?

Narvuntien wrote: »

Yeah the Alcast videos are pretty promising actually, sure there is a DPS drop, but a single mag/stam regen enchant is enough to sustain with only a few heavy attacks. 30k dps now the norm.

The content isn't changed. Wake up, people! The content isn't changed.

30k Alcast DPS = 25k max for the majority of playerbase. 25k max on 630CP. You can strive for 30k if you farm your mind out. And at that point you might attempt vMoL.

vCoAII is generally considered to be CP300+ dung. Now? 500CP+ or gtfo.

Minimum DPS for Craglorn vTrials is 20k. At 20k you can be sure that you will complete it, it's enough for Varlariel, etc. What, more 500CP+ instances?

Screw you, average players, who want to try some end-game content. Grind 500CP, farm gear, then come back.

Just. Great.

So requirements will be lowered, that's it

No. Sadly requirements will be raised because ZOS didn't adjust the difficulty in the content to match the nerfs they made to sustain and DPS. Meaning more people will be complaining about no one wanting them in their raiding groups any more.

Dantaria · May 2017

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

So requirements will be lowered, that's it

I... I don't even... Are you familiar with the term "DPS-check"?

Varlariel, the boss in vAA, summons 6 copies. And after some short time (which is set in stone) she casts explosion. If you didn't manage to kill 5 out of 6 copies in this short time, this explosion oneshots everyone. Not enough DPS? Raid wipes.

Same with Mage. On 15% she enters the execute phase - she starts healing herself and damage everyone. You have to outDPS her healing or after some time the damage she deals also becomes oneshot. Not enough DPS? Raid wipes.

The requirements are made by content itself. It isn't "LOL, guys, I want 20k from you on Target Skeleton, 'cause I'm RL, I do what I want". It is "Guys, I need 20k on Target Skeleton from all of you, or we won't complete the trial. I'm sorry, but we just won't".

And vMoL... I don't even want to think about Twins in "brave new Morrowind". I'm ready to bet that most progression groups will struggle on the first boss, who is direct DPS-check. Didn't kill him until 11th explosion? It oneshots everyone.

The requiremets will not be lowered because without the changes in content they literally. Cannot. Be. Lowered.

LtCrunch · May 2017

Dantaria wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

So requirements will be lowered, that's it

I... I don't even... Are you familiar with the term "DPS-check"?

Varlariel, the boss in vAA, summons 6 copies. And after some short time (which is set in stone) she casts explosion. If you didn't manage to kill 5 out of 6 copies in this short time, this explosion oneshots everyone. Not enough DPS? Raid wipes.

Same with Mage. On 15% she enters the execute phase - she starts healing herself and damage everyone. You have to outDPS her healing or after some time the damage she deals also becomes oneshot. Not enough DPS? Raid wipes.

The requirements are made by content itself. It isn't "LOL, guys, I want 20k from you on Target Skeleton, 'cause I'm RL, I do what I want". It is "Guys, I need 20k on Target Skeleton from all of you, or we won't complete the trial. I'm sorry, but we just won't".

And vMoL... I don't even want to think about Twins in "brave new Morrowind". I'm ready to bet that most progression groups will struggle on the first boss, who is direct DPS-check. Didn't kill him until 11th explosion? It oneshots everyone.

The requiremets will not be lowered because without the changes in content they literally. Cannot. Be. Lowered.

This is somewhat disengenuous. While DPS checks are a very real thing and they do require a minimum threshold to complete. That's not necessarily the case for all of the DPS requirements you see though. A lot of DPS requirements that trials guilds have are to directly undermine, skip, or ignore mechanics to achieve the fastest times possible. One of the goals of many of these changes is to address this type of behaviour. That being said it could've definitely been done in a much simpler, more refined and less disruptive way. But it's ZOS and if they're not being lazy then they're overthinking issues.

Elsonso · May 2017

LtCrunch wrote: »

DPS checks are a very real thing and they do require a minimum threshold to complete. That's not necessarily the case for all of the DPS requirements you see though. A lot of DPS requirements that trials guilds have are to directly undermine, skip, or ignore mechanics to achieve the fastest times possible. One of the goals of many of these changes is to address this type of behaviour.

Worshipping at the altar of the Daedric Prince of DPS has been an ongoing, and escalating, problem in the game for a long time. When the only measurements people have are expressed in "per second", and given that there is a good formula for getting better "per second", it is understandable that people would worship there.

I maintain that most players, in most content, have more DPS than they need to accomplish the task. They don't need to worship DPS. It is only in certain situations where DPS really becomes an issue. My feeling is that ZOS should adjust content, in those situations, as necessary, to match player abilities. I am sure it is on their radar, so we shall see what comes of it.