Increase cast time on Dark Deal
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Cinbri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Being templar already grant advantage to counter it better than other classes. Templar Charge already can almost shut every attempt of stamsorc to use DD on range (especially after increasing leap animation previous update), even those who trying to run away spamming Streak+DD countered by one-button spam of Charge, Explosive Charge even counter stamsorc who decided to waste stamina on roll-dodge+DD coz AoE Interrupt counter roll-dodge. At least for Templar with those additional 0.2 sec chances to break free and reach stamsorc in time to interrupt DD became even higher now.Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »LeifErickson wrote: »This is actually a pretty huge nerf. A good opponent could literally lock you out of your main sustain in a 1v1 and it was almost impossible to use while getting dogpiled. I'm not really sure how I feel about this change.
A good opponent already interrupted stam sorcs if the stam sorc wasn't smart enough to create separation. A .2 second increase is a joke.
Smart opponent can counter DD while smart stamsorc can counter smart opponent, and for that reason increase chances to counter DD of smart stamsorc is a joke... #Logic.
I main a magplar. If a stam sorc is dumb enough to stay in melee range while dark dealing, I'll interrupt it. If he's smart enough to create separation, (leave bash range) then there's nothing I can do to interrupt him. A .2 second increase won't fix that. That is logic.
Don't know if it affect stamsorc vs other classes somehow.
Edited by Cinbri on May 8, 2017 6:57PM0 -
Sugaroverdose✭✭✭✭✭
Sooo, what prevents sorc to press button second time? This is most stupid ability which isn't "risk-reward" at all. If it would actually consume resources on start time it would be viable, or if interruption will result in stun every time ignoring CC immunity, but both things are not implemented for no reason.LeifErickson wrote: »Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »LeifErickson wrote: »This is actually a pretty huge nerf. A good opponent could literally lock you out of your main sustain in a 1v1 and it was almost impossible to use while getting dogpiled. I'm not really sure how I feel about this change.
A good opponent already interrupted stam sorcs if the stam sorc wasn't smart enough to create separation. A .2 second increase is a joke.
Smart opponent can counter DD while smart stamsorc can counter smart opponent, and for that reason increase chances to counter DD of smart stamsorc is a joke... #Logic.
I main a magplar. If a stam sorc is dumb enough to stay in melee range while dark dealing, I'll interrupt it. If he's smart enough to create separation, (leave bash range) then there's nothing I can do to interrupt him. A .2 second increase won't fix that. That is logic.
Magplar gap closer literally is an interrupt. All you have to do is press one button and you get the interrupt.Edited by Sugaroverdose on May 8, 2017 6:56PM7 -
Magıc✭✭✭✭✭No matter what nerfs Zos do to sorcs, it's quite clear all the pugs won't stop crying until sorcs are literally trash tier and unplayable.
It's actually quite funny because all these pugs will hop onto stamplars next patch when they realise that mag sorc won't even be the strongest class next patch due to stamplar being around, and will then proceed to cry when Zos nerf stamplar in the next patch after Morrowind.6 -
Magıc✭✭✭✭✭Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »LeifErickson wrote: »Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »LeifErickson wrote: »This is actually a pretty huge nerf. A good opponent could literally lock you out of your main sustain in a 1v1 and it was almost impossible to use while getting dogpiled. I'm not really sure how I feel about this change.
A good opponent already interrupted stam sorcs if the stam sorc wasn't smart enough to create separation. A .2 second increase is a joke.
Smart opponent can counter DD while smart stamsorc can counter smart opponent, and for that reason increase chances to counter DD of smart stamsorc is a joke... #Logic.
I main a magplar. If a stam sorc is dumb enough to stay in melee range while dark dealing, I'll interrupt it. If he's smart enough to create separation, (leave bash range) then there's nothing I can do to interrupt him. A .2 second increase won't fix that. That is logic.
Magplar gap closer literally is an interrupt. All you have to do is press one button and you get the interrupt.
The magplar gap closer is horrible. Most competent magplars haven't bothered slotting it in over a year.
?
Every top magplar in PC EU uses it. Most of the top magplars in PC NA also use it.3 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »LeifErickson wrote: »Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »LeifErickson wrote: »This is actually a pretty huge nerf. A good opponent could literally lock you out of your main sustain in a 1v1 and it was almost impossible to use while getting dogpiled. I'm not really sure how I feel about this change.
A good opponent already interrupted stam sorcs if the stam sorc wasn't smart enough to create separation. A .2 second increase is a joke.
Smart opponent can counter DD while smart stamsorc can counter smart opponent, and for that reason increase chances to counter DD of smart stamsorc is a joke... #Logic.
I main a magplar. If a stam sorc is dumb enough to stay in melee range while dark dealing, I'll interrupt it. If he's smart enough to create separation, (leave bash range) then there's nothing I can do to interrupt him. A .2 second increase won't fix that. That is logic.
Magplar gap closer literally is an interrupt. All you have to do is press one button and you get the interrupt.
The magplar gap closer is horrible. Most competent magplars haven't bothered slotting it in over a year.
And streak doesn't work half the time either, lolMinalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.1 -
Tiitus✭✭✭✭LeifErickson wrote: »However on live, I personally think igneous is overall more powerful than dark deal.
why do you keep comparing igneous shield to DD? igneous shield is a shield that grants major mending and dark deal returns resources and heals?
nvm i see you are refering to helping hands when you say igneous shield lol just say helping hands bro.. helping hands is a good passive and was prob on par with DD just becuase of what igneous shield offered and not in terms of raw resources DD still returned more net mount of resources if uncontested. but yeah was hit with nerf in 3.0.0 igneous and helping hands took a big hit.. other than that cant argue with helping hands being good on live.Edited by Tiitus on May 8, 2017 7:13PM3 -
Magıc✭✭✭✭✭LeifErickson wrote: »However on live, I personally think igneous is overall more powerful than dark deal.
why do you keep comparing igneous shield to DD? igneous shield is a shield that grants major mending and dark deal returns resources and heals?
Igneous returns resources too. Major mending buffs healing by 25% or whatever it is. As a stamDK main, I know for a fact I'd much prefer igneous over dark exchange.1 -
Ron_Burgundy_79✭✭✭✭✭
Being templar already grant advantage to counter it better than other classes. Templar Charge already can almost shut every attempt of stamsorc to use DD on range (especially after increasing leap animation previous update), even those who trying to run away spamming Streak+DD countered by one-button spam of Charge, Explosive Charge even counter stamsorc who decided to waste stamina on roll-dodge+DD coz AoE Interrupt counter roll-dodge. At least for Templar with those additional 0.2 sec chances to break free and reach stamsorc in time to interrupt DD became even higher now.Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »LeifErickson wrote: »This is actually a pretty huge nerf. A good opponent could literally lock you out of your main sustain in a 1v1 and it was almost impossible to use while getting dogpiled. I'm not really sure how I feel about this change.
A good opponent already interrupted stam sorcs if the stam sorc wasn't smart enough to create separation. A .2 second increase is a joke.
Smart opponent can counter DD while smart stamsorc can counter smart opponent, and for that reason increase chances to counter DD of smart stamsorc is a joke... #Logic.
I main a magplar. If a stam sorc is dumb enough to stay in melee range while dark dealing, I'll interrupt it. If he's smart enough to create separation, (leave bash range) then there's nothing I can do to interrupt him. A .2 second increase won't fix that. That is logic.
Don't know if it affect stamsorc vs other classes somehow.
1. You're assuming charge actually functions correctly. I put it on my bar last night for the first time in well over a year. I was locked in the charge animation no less than 10 times last night. It failed to actually gap close numerous times as well.
2. A good stam sorc won't streak away. The sorc will streak through giving him time to get a dark deal off.
I play with the best stam sorc on console. We 2vX pretty much every day. He laughed when I told him about the last dark deal nerf, and I'm sure he'll laugh again when he finds out about this nerf.0 -
GallantGuardian✭✭✭✭Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »LeifErickson wrote: »Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »LeifErickson wrote: »This is actually a pretty huge nerf. A good opponent could literally lock you out of your main sustain in a 1v1 and it was almost impossible to use while getting dogpiled. I'm not really sure how I feel about this change.
A good opponent already interrupted stam sorcs if the stam sorc wasn't smart enough to create separation. A .2 second increase is a joke.
Smart opponent can counter DD while smart stamsorc can counter smart opponent, and for that reason increase chances to counter DD of smart stamsorc is a joke... #Logic.
I main a magplar. If a stam sorc is dumb enough to stay in melee range while dark dealing, I'll interrupt it. If he's smart enough to create separation, (leave bash range) then there's nothing I can do to interrupt him. A .2 second increase won't fix that. That is logic.
Magplar gap closer literally is an interrupt. All you have to do is press one button and you get the interrupt.
The magplar gap closer is horrible. Most competent magplars haven't bothered slotting it in over a year.
I laughed hard at his reasoning... that gap closer is GARBAGE ... it works half the time and or less...3 -
SanTii.92✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »LeifErickson wrote: »Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »LeifErickson wrote: »This is actually a pretty huge nerf. A good opponent could literally lock you out of your main sustain in a 1v1 and it was almost impossible to use while getting dogpiled. I'm not really sure how I feel about this change.
A good opponent already interrupted stam sorcs if the stam sorc wasn't smart enough to create separation. A .2 second increase is a joke.
Smart opponent can counter DD while smart stamsorc can counter smart opponent, and for that reason increase chances to counter DD of smart stamsorc is a joke... #Logic.
I main a magplar. If a stam sorc is dumb enough to stay in melee range while dark dealing, I'll interrupt it. If he's smart enough to create separation, (leave bash range) then there's nothing I can do to interrupt him. A .2 second increase won't fix that. That is logic.
Magplar gap closer literally is an interrupt. All you have to do is press one button and you get the interrupt.
The magplar gap closer is horrible. Most competent magplars haven't bothered slotting it in over a year.
lmaoWhen the snows fall and the white winds blow,
the lone wolf dies, but the pack survives.
Arg | Pc Na | Factionless Mag Warden.0 -
Ron_Burgundy_79✭✭✭✭✭Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »LeifErickson wrote: »Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »LeifErickson wrote: »This is actually a pretty huge nerf. A good opponent could literally lock you out of your main sustain in a 1v1 and it was almost impossible to use while getting dogpiled. I'm not really sure how I feel about this change.
A good opponent already interrupted stam sorcs if the stam sorc wasn't smart enough to create separation. A .2 second increase is a joke.
Smart opponent can counter DD while smart stamsorc can counter smart opponent, and for that reason increase chances to counter DD of smart stamsorc is a joke... #Logic.
I main a magplar. If a stam sorc is dumb enough to stay in melee range while dark dealing, I'll interrupt it. If he's smart enough to create separation, (leave bash range) then there's nothing I can do to interrupt him. A .2 second increase won't fix that. That is logic.
Magplar gap closer literally is an interrupt. All you have to do is press one button and you get the interrupt.
The magplar gap closer is horrible. Most competent magplars haven't bothered slotting it in over a year.
?
Every top magplar in PC EU uses it. Most of the top magplars in PC NA also use it.
ZOS must have fixed it on pc because it rarely works on console. It's a death wish for us.0 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LeifErickson wrote: »However on live, I personally think igneous is overall more powerful than dark deal.
why do you keep comparing igneous shield to DD? igneous shield is a shield that grants major mending and dark deal returns resources and heals?
Igneous returns resources too. Major mending buffs healing by 25% or whatever it is. As a stamDK main, I know for a fact I'd much prefer igneous over dark exchange.
You're aware this is Marrowind patch he is talking and shields major mending is nerfed and only last duration of shield now right ? Which for most DK's is like one or two hits . You still prefer that over Dark Deal on Marrowind with .2% cast time increase ? .2 seconds . That's less time then the inhale before you say Yes .2 -
DisgracefulMind✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »LeifErickson wrote: »Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »LeifErickson wrote: »This is actually a pretty huge nerf. A good opponent could literally lock you out of your main sustain in a 1v1 and it was almost impossible to use while getting dogpiled. I'm not really sure how I feel about this change.
A good opponent already interrupted stam sorcs if the stam sorc wasn't smart enough to create separation. A .2 second increase is a joke.
Smart opponent can counter DD while smart stamsorc can counter smart opponent, and for that reason increase chances to counter DD of smart stamsorc is a joke... #Logic.
I main a magplar. If a stam sorc is dumb enough to stay in melee range while dark dealing, I'll interrupt it. If he's smart enough to create separation, (leave bash range) then there's nothing I can do to interrupt him. A .2 second increase won't fix that. That is logic.
Magplar gap closer literally is an interrupt. All you have to do is press one button and you get the interrupt.
The magplar gap closer is horrible. Most competent magplars haven't bothered slotting it in over a year.
?
Every top magplar in PC EU uses it. Most of the top magplars in PC NA also use it.
I use it, but it's not as simple as press one button and get an interrupt. Toppling charge is probably, if not, the slowest gap closer in the game. It's not really a crazy reliable interrupt. So ya, if a sorc moves out of range for dark deal, we will mostly likely miss the first and probably the second cast of DD. Of course, I'm not talking in duel situations, where it would be easier to interrupt DD more often that in an open world environment.Unfortunate magicka warden main.
PC/NA Server
Fairweather Friends
Retired to baby bgs forever. Leave me alone.3 -
Denyiir✭✭✭✭I think it's pretty clear now they won't touch sorc, and will come up with these fake little nerfs so it kinda looks like they changed something while they actually didn't lmao7 -
t3hdubzy✭✭✭✭Goes to show you that they know people are spamming this ability, so they are giving people more time to stop people before there 3rd or 4th time doing it.0 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭tinbromide wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Is this the community that yelps about ZOS always tending to extreme nerfs instead of small, incremental changes?
So why do sorcs get incrementals and the other classes get nuked?
There's nothing incremental about the change to Pirate Skeleton in this same patch. It's a HUGE nerf to Sorcs, but even got a buffed proc rate for other classes.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE5 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭No matter what nerfs Zos do to sorcs, it's quite clear all the pugs won't stop crying until sorcs are literally trash tier and unplayable.
It's actually quite funny because all these pugs will hop onto stamplars next patch when they realise that mag sorc won't even be the strongest class next patch due to stamplar being around, and will then proceed to cry when Zos nerf stamplar in the next patch after Morrowind.
Everyone be hatin on them sorcs being "op" but I bet nobody will play them next patch once they realize that other classes are better... smh sorc itself was never op, gear and CP made it like that and both are gone now. Ah well pugs will never stop crying
Oh yeah and dark conversion but I think that's nerfed enough imo, 20% is more than enough.Edited by Subversus on May 8, 2017 7:59PM3 -
D0ntevenL1ft✭✭✭✭✭This is another pathetic sideshow to keep attention off sorcs while they still come in extremely overpowered. This is more insulting than not doing anything at all.
3 -
Pijng✭✭✭No matter what nerfs Zos do to sorcs, it's quite clear all the pugs won't stop crying until sorcs are literally trash tier and unplayable.
It's actually quite funny because all these pugs will hop onto stamplars next patch when they realise that mag sorc won't even be the strongest class next patch due to stamplar being around, and will then proceed to cry when Zos nerf stamplar in the next patch after Morrowind.
Everyone be hatin on them sorcs being "op" but I bet nobody will play them next patch once they realize that other classes are better... smh sorc itself was never op, gear and CP made it like that and both are gone now. Ah well pugs will never stop crying
Oh yeah and dark conversion but I think that's nerfed enough imo, 20% is more than enough.
20% of 1 sec man. Depends on current number but not on raw percentage.
Actually, actually idc about sorcs in pvp. Its not so hard to kill 'em with my magnb. Yeah, combo of curse+wrath is annoying but nah, everyone has a powerful combo.0 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »This is another pathetic sideshow to keep attention off sorcs while they still come in extremely overpowered. This is more insulting than not doing anything at all.
"Extremely overpowered"
Cya next patch, bet you'll be playing a templar1 -
Speed_Kills✭✭✭If you want my opinion, I think @LeifErickson has done a great job of explaining it.Some say speed kills, I hope to be proof of that.
Main- Speed Kills Nord Stamina Sorcerer
+11 alts (every class, mag+stam)2 -
D0ntevenL1ft✭✭✭✭✭D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »This is another pathetic sideshow to keep attention off sorcs while they still come in extremely overpowered. This is more insulting than not doing anything at all.
"Extremely overpowered"
Cya next patch, bet you'll be playing a templar
I have no idea what you're talking about. So ya see you next patch on your sorc??1 -
Sugaroverdose✭✭✭✭✭
Sorcs in ESO in the same state as Paladins in WoW: Buff for any costD0ntevenL1ft wrote: »This is another pathetic sideshow to keep attention off sorcs while they still come in extremely overpowered. This is more insulting than not doing anything at all.
"Extremely overpowered"
Cya next patch, bet you'll be playing a templar0 -
Domander✭✭✭✭✭
✭.2 seconds is pretty significant. If the sorc creates distance and breaks LoS to use it, great, and as the enemy you let them do it.
An interrupt creates an opportunity to destroy an enemy, it works, I use it. A bash will also get a huge damage bonus.
I saw a post comparing it to heavy attack resource return, a sorc can't do anything while channeling other than move. A heavy attack does a lot of damage and gives back resources. In pve it's often going to be a better choice to do a heavy attack, if possible. Dark exchange still has uses though for sure.
It's a nice ability, and balanced, especially after this change.
Edited by Domander on May 8, 2017 10:49PM2 -
Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Someone did the cauRon_Burgundy_79 wrote: »LeifErickson wrote: »Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »LeifErickson wrote: »This is actually a pretty huge nerf. A good opponent could literally lock you out of your main sustain in a 1v1 and it was almost impossible to use while getting dogpiled. I'm not really sure how I feel about this change.
A good opponent already interrupted stam sorcs if the stam sorc wasn't smart enough to create separation. A .2 second increase is a joke.
Smart opponent can counter DD while smart stamsorc can counter smart opponent, and for that reason increase chances to counter DD of smart stamsorc is a joke... #Logic.
I main a magplar. If a stam sorc is dumb enough to stay in melee range while dark dealing, I'll interrupt it. If he's smart enough to create separation, (leave bash range) then there's nothing I can do to interrupt him. A .2 second increase won't fix that. That is logic.
Magplar gap closer literally is an interrupt. All you have to do is press one button and you get the interrupt.
The magplar gap closer is horrible. Most competent magplars haven't bothered slotting it in over a year.
And streak doesn't work half the time either, lol
Not to forget it's the only still with increased cost for usage.0 -
Smmokkee✭✭✭✭✭20% reduction in rate of burst recovery..
Honestly, there is no way whatsoever that the sorc-haters will be happy with any changes which does not involve it being removed from every sorcs bar.
I've explains already how sustained recovery isn't much betterr than, eg. Siphoning.. Due to low recov of the stat needed to cast it.
People still talking like stamsorc have infinite mag to cast it.
Streak to D/D. Yeah.. That works, but on bg's, after 1 streak, you have enough mag for 2 D/D's. How long till your mag recovers to cast it again..?
Relentless, Siphoning and shadow image all draw or use to draw from the magicka pool as well as dark cloak.. so yeah no real pity that after you cast the single best skill for mobility you can only cast the single best skill for sustain twice. Lol.
Siphoning was rendered useless. Just look at the poll created asking if nightblades will run siphoning it's extremely lopsided because people have identified how terrible it is after the extreme nerf.1 -
GreenSoup2HoT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Where is the patchnote that says interrupting Dark Deal costs the Sorceror resources...... thats literally all it needs.
PS4 NA DC4 -
whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am gonna restate this here since I already posted it in the thread for the v3.0.3 patch notes for the PTS,
LINK
so Sorc's get a $#%$^$^ 200 ms added (1.2 sec's vs 1.0 sec) on the Dark Exchange cast time, where is the Numbers slashed like Siphoning Strikes..
Dark Exchange and it's Morph's should only get like 10% of what it currently gives to Players on Live, just like the Nightblades Siphoning Strikes..
You want to make everything balanced ^^^^^^ that above is %^$%$$# fair and Balanced..
Sorc's need to take the Nerf Bat just as hard as everyone else in the recovery DEPT..
@Wrobel
PS- I never call for Nerf's, really, I only advocate against them but when I am calling for the Nerf Bat then you know it is about to hit the FAN..
TOO LATESigned, Kotaro Atani.PS5 NAVR16/ CP 160 Khajiit Nightblade of the Aldmeri Dominion, Guildmaster and Assassin of the Queen's Hand guild on NA PC. PvP Officer in the WOLF guild on NA PS5, and of course Master Thief. Currently 3600 CP out of 3600 CP on NA PS5. Currently 810 CP on NA PC (used for PTS testing purposes only). On PS5 I am also a Master Crafter, all traits done and learned, Jewelry crafting done. all Motifs learned on PS5 except for maybe two-three Motifs. All Companions are Max level as are their Skills.Warrior, Lover, Thief.... Nightblade. Aldmeri Dominion For Life! For the Queen!! Go Dominion or go home ! "I have no hatred for the races of Man, but they are young. Like all children, they are driven by emotion. They lack the wisdom that comes with age. I would sooner place an Altmer infant on the Ruby Throne than surrender Tamriel to their capricious whims. The Altmer, the Bosmer and the Khajiit share the common traits of intelligence, patience and reason. We do not seek riches or plunder. Domination is not our goal, nor is the acclamation of power for its own sake. Today we make our stand. Today we take back the Ruby Throne, which is ours by ancient right and the blessings of the Divines. Stand with us." ―Your Queen Commands, Ayrenn Arana Aldmeri.(All 18 characters are AD only! This one is a AD Loyalist)Member of ESO Since January 29, 2014, started early Access 3/30/14 on PC, currently subbed on NA PS5 and on NA PC. Note- I only use PC for PTS testing purposes, the PS5 is my dedicated Game Platform.Note- for those that don't know how to say Kotaro Atani it's "Ko tar row Ah ta ni" (Ko with a Oh sound, tar which sounds like the sticky black tar stuff, row like rowing a boat, Ah with a AHHHH sound, Ta with a Tahhh sound, Neeee which sounds like knee)"The blowing sands of time wipe clean the footprints of the past...""Moonsugar may be the key to paradise, but it is through a false door...""A perfect society is always elsewhere..."- Unknown book of Khajiiti proverbs.1