Increase cast time on Dark Deal

Hutch679

1 second to 1.2 secs? I'll just leave this here...

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Sorc > everything

Tiitus

its a joke, these tiny a$$ tweaks is more insulting than, not doing anything at all... their only doing it to silence us but were not F*cking idiots... 1.2 sec really? first off no sorc ever uses DD in range of being countered ever! second why the hell is the resource return on this is still not tuned down like the rest of the classes sustain abilities for 3.0.0? being Interruptible is a BS excuse for a skill that has a 1.2 barely noticable cast time and never used in a situation where it can be interrupted. if this is your vision of class balance make siphoning attacks have a 1.2 sec cast and Interruptible also revert it back to the way it was "balanced".

Hutch679

Tiitus wrote: »

its a joke, these tiny a$$ tweaks is more insulting than, not doing anything at all... their only doing it to silence us but were not F*cking idiots... 1.2 sec really? first off no sorc ever uses DD in range of being countered ever! second why the hell is the resource return on this is still not tuned down like the rest of the classes sustain abilities for 3.0.0? being Interruptible is a BS excuse for a skill that has a 1.2 barely noticable cast time and never used in a situation where it can be interrupted.

Yeahhhh I never actually use it in combat so increasing the cast time literally has no effect on my sorc.... lol

HugeMuffin

2878 over 1.2 seconds is now only 2,298 stamina per second.

2878 stamina is more than 2 heavy attacks. It takes 2-3 seconds to swing a heavy attack depending on your weapon. It returns 3x the rate of heavy attacks.

Can we give other classes the option of returning at the same rate as heavy attacks (about 600-800 stamina per second, base)? I don't need 3x heavy, or 2x heavy on a nb, but I would like something better than 1/4th the rate of heavy attacks.

Don't nerf DD, ask the devs why they're afraid of bringing the other classes up to DD's level.

LeifErickson

This is actually a pretty huge nerf. A good opponent could literally lock you out of your main sustain in a 1v1 and it was almost impossible to use while getting dogpiled. I'm not really sure how I feel about this change.

Ron_Burgundy_79

LeifErickson wrote: »

This is actually a pretty huge nerf. A good opponent could literally lock you out of your main sustain in a 1v1 and it was almost impossible to use while getting dogpiled. I'm not really sure how I feel about this change.

A good opponent already interrupted stam sorcs if the stam sorc wasn't smart enough to create separation. A .2 second increase is a joke.

Tiitus

LeifErickson wrote: »

This is actually a pretty huge nerf. A good opponent could literally lock you out of your main sustain in a 1v1 and it was almost impossible to use while getting dogpiled. I'm not really sure how I feel about this change.

bolt escape then DD your issue is solved in 1v1 scenario. no decent sorc would put themselves in a situation to not be able to cast DD. any class has trouble when they are being dogpiled.. in a pve scenario DD goes uncontested.

Skeironn

LeifErickson wrote: »

This is actually a pretty huge nerf. A good opponent could literally lock you out of your main sustain in a 1v1 and it was almost impossible to use while getting dogpiled. I'm not really sure how I feel about this change.

yeah mate sure in cyro everyone play solo and 1v1 and im not talking even rock and line of sight sorry my english not good but this is blsht

Minno

Tiitus wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

This is actually a pretty huge nerf. A good opponent could literally lock you out of your main sustain in a 1v1 and it was almost impossible to use while getting dogpiled. I'm not really sure how I feel about this change.

bolt escape then DD your issue is solved in 1v1 scenario. no decent sorc would put themselves in a situation to not be able to cast DD. any class has trouble when they are being dogpiled.. in a pve scenario DD goes uncontested.

im pretty sure now most of these changes are based for balance with duels now.

in BG/open cyro, the intended strategy is ZERG!.

Chilly-McFreeze

Is this the community that yelps about ZOS always tending to extreme nerfs instead of small, incremental changes?

HugeMuffin

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Is this the community that yelps about ZOS always tending to extreme nerfs instead of small, incremental changes?

So why do sorcs get incrementals and the other classes get nuked?

Tiitus

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Is this the community that yelps about ZOS always tending to extreme nerfs instead of small, incremental changes?

Nope.. when you have extreme nerfs across the bored on every class but one.. it becomes a different conversation. if sorc is their idea of balanced we should be tuned around them but this is not whats happening, Dark Deal is an example of this. if i happen to blink while a sorc is casting DD i just missed that .2 sec opening they just gave us.

LeifErickson

Tiitus wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

This is actually a pretty huge nerf. A good opponent could literally lock you out of your main sustain in a 1v1 and it was almost impossible to use while getting dogpiled. I'm not really sure how I feel about this change.

bolt escape then DD your issue is solved in 1v1 scenario. no decent sorc would put themselves in a situation to not be able to cast DD. any class has trouble when they are being dogpiled.. in a pve scenario DD goes uncontested.

My point is that there is counterplay. There isn't really a counter to dks casting igneous or nbs using siphoning. Dark deal can either be really good or useless. Other sustain skills often end up being much better because they are consistent.

Ladislao

It was good in 3.0.2 yet. But I agree with this change if people stop crying. Oh, shiiii...

DisgracefulMind

LeifErickson wrote: »

Tiitus wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

This is actually a pretty huge nerf. A good opponent could literally lock you out of your main sustain in a 1v1 and it was almost impossible to use while getting dogpiled. I'm not really sure how I feel about this change.

bolt escape then DD your issue is solved in 1v1 scenario. no decent sorc would put themselves in a situation to not be able to cast DD. any class has trouble when they are being dogpiled.. in a pve scenario DD goes uncontested.

My point is that there is counterplay. There isn't really a counter to dks casting igneous or nbs using siphoning. Dark deal can either be really good or useless. Other sustain skills often end up being much better because they are consistent.

You honestly cannot compare these to Dark Deal, particularly with the heavy nerfs they both took. Come on.

Biro123

20% reduction in rate of burst recovery..

Honestly, there is no way whatsoever that the sorc-haters will be happy with any changes which does not involve it being removed from every sorcs bar.

I've explains already how sustained recovery isn't much betterr than, eg. Siphoning.. Due to low recov of the stat needed to cast it.

People still talking like stamsorc have infinite mag to cast it.

Streak to D/D. Yeah.. That works, but on bg's, after 1 streak, you have enough mag for 2 D/D's. How long till your mag recovers to cast it again..?

Rohamad_Ali

LeifErickson wrote: »

Tiitus wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

This is actually a pretty huge nerf. A good opponent could literally lock you out of your main sustain in a 1v1 and it was almost impossible to use while getting dogpiled. I'm not really sure how I feel about this change.

bolt escape then DD your issue is solved in 1v1 scenario. no decent sorc would put themselves in a situation to not be able to cast DD. any class has trouble when they are being dogpiled.. in a pve scenario DD goes uncontested.

My point is that there is counterplay. There isn't really a counter to dks casting igneous or nbs using siphoning. Dark deal can either be really good or useless. Other sustain skills often end up being much better because they are consistent.

Dude , don't even compare siphoning strikes to dark deal in the Marrowind patch . Just don't ...

Sugaroverdose

@Wrobel first off: you're awesome troll, secondly: when the *** it start to consume resources on cast start? Even dragon leap consumes ultimate when it's f*up to actually do anything but grows wings from DK ass

Tiitus

.

LeifErickson wrote: »

Tiitus wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

This is actually a pretty huge nerf. A good opponent could literally lock you out of your main sustain in a 1v1 and it was almost impossible to use while getting dogpiled. I'm not really sure how I feel about this change.

bolt escape then DD your issue is solved in 1v1 scenario. no decent sorc would put themselves in a situation to not be able to cast DD. any class has trouble when they are being dogpiled.. in a pve scenario DD goes uncontested.

My point is that there is counterplay. There isn't really a counter to dks casting igneous or nbs using siphoning. Dark deal can either be really good or useless. Other sustain skills often end up being much better because they are consistent.

sorc DD is the best sustain skill in the game on live and in the upcoming patch, there is no much better option.. dks igneous shied is not comparable to this conversation but their battle roar is... to be useful battle roar needs a high ultimate ability which needs to be generated so limited cast and situational (this was nerfed in 3.0.0) siphoning attacks restore resource in small amounts over time its good on live not DD good but good (this was destroyed in 3.0.0) sorc DD is a 1 sec cast low risk/ high reward ability you will almost always have time to cast it counterplay is useless when the window for success is so small that it doesnt exist (this is "nerfed" to 1.2 sec in 3.0.0).

Chilly-McFreeze

Tiitus wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Is this the community that yelps about ZOS always tending to extreme nerfs instead of small, incremental changes?

Nope.. when you have extreme nerfs across the bored on every class but one.. it becomes a different conversation. if sorc is their idea of balanced we should be tuned around them but this is not whats happening, Dark Deal is an example of this. if i happen to blink while a sorc is casting DD i just missed that .2 sec opening they just gave us.

So you basically are saying that you aren't satisfied until sorcs get nuked?

SickDuck

1.2 seconds is a good compromise. The increased casting time is a nuisance for sorcs game experience while not helping with the balance at all. Technically it's useless for all parties.

The only thing is achieves is it slightly pisses players with a sorc main. So they can start counter-threads against all the nerf-sorc threads...

Feanor

I'm done arguing Sorc nerfs. The Sorc hunt won't stop until the class is garbage too.

Cinbri

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

This is actually a pretty huge nerf. A good opponent could literally lock you out of your main sustain in a 1v1 and it was almost impossible to use while getting dogpiled. I'm not really sure how I feel about this change.

A good opponent already interrupted stam sorcs if the stam sorc wasn't smart enough to create separation. A .2 second increase is a joke.

Smart opponent can counter DD while smart stamsorc can counter smart opponent, and for that reason increase chances to counter DD of smart stamsorc is a joke... #Logic.

MaxwellC

The appropriate nerf would be that if interrupted the cost of this ability will still be consumed; a more drastic approach would be to have the consume cost upon usage even if interrupted but also to lock the person out of doing it again for 2-3 seconds.

I suggest the first one being fair while the second one being completely harsh.

Sugaroverdose

SickDuck wrote: »

1.2 seconds is a good compromise. The increased casting time is a nuisance for sorcs game experience while not helping with the balance at all. Technically it's useless for all parties.

The only thing is achieves is it slightly pisses players with a sorc main. So they can start counter-threads against all the nerf-sorc threads...

It's PoS, even with 1.5s cast it's way too overpowered

LeifErickson

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

Tiitus wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

This is actually a pretty huge nerf. A good opponent could literally lock you out of your main sustain in a 1v1 and it was almost impossible to use while getting dogpiled. I'm not really sure how I feel about this change.

bolt escape then DD your issue is solved in 1v1 scenario. no decent sorc would put themselves in a situation to not be able to cast DD. any class has trouble when they are being dogpiled.. in a pve scenario DD goes uncontested.

My point is that there is counterplay. There isn't really a counter to dks casting igneous or nbs using siphoning. Dark deal can either be really good or useless. Other sustain skills often end up being much better because they are consistent.

You honestly cannot compare these to Dark Deal, particularly with the heavy nerfs they both too. Come on.

Was speaking mostly on live, but you are right when talking about PTS. Both skills got nerfed hard and dark deal didn't until now. I think it's safe to say dark deal pre this PTS patch notes change was significantly stronger than the other two skills and it may still be post patch notes. But having the ability to lock someone out of their main sustain skill (will players even be able to cc break streak stun, turn around and gap close bash with the new 1.2 second cast time?) allows for a risk versus reward mechanic, especially when the bash cc is so powerful and gives you a big damage bonus from cp.

I think it's hard to evaluate these changes without actually testing them out first as well. When I look at it, I see a big nerf. But I don't really know for sure how much of a nerf it really is until I test it.

However on live, I personally think igneous is overall more powerful than dark deal.

Tiitus

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Tiitus wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Is this the community that yelps about ZOS always tending to extreme nerfs instead of small, incremental changes?

Nope.. when you have extreme nerfs across the bored on every class but one.. it becomes a different conversation. if sorc is their idea of balanced we should be tuned around them but this is not whats happening, Dark Deal is an example of this. if i happen to blink while a sorc is casting DD i just missed that .2 sec opening they just gave us.

So you basically are saying that you aren't satisfied until sorcs get nuked?

No. why cant you interpret that as i wont be satisfied until we are brought more in line with sorcs? since it seems to be their vision of balance. i dnt want to suck the fun out of sorcs or the game.

Ron_Burgundy_79

Cinbri wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

This is actually a pretty huge nerf. A good opponent could literally lock you out of your main sustain in a 1v1 and it was almost impossible to use while getting dogpiled. I'm not really sure how I feel about this change.

A good opponent already interrupted stam sorcs if the stam sorc wasn't smart enough to create separation. A .2 second increase is a joke.

Smart opponent can counter DD while smart stamsorc can counter smart opponent, and for that reason increase chances to counter DD of smart stamsorc is a joke... #Logic.

I main a magplar. If a stam sorc is dumb enough to stay in melee range while dark dealing, I'll interrupt it. If he's smart enough to create separation, (leave bash range) then there's nothing I can do to interrupt him. A .2 second increase won't fix that. That is logic.

LeifErickson

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

This is actually a pretty huge nerf. A good opponent could literally lock you out of your main sustain in a 1v1 and it was almost impossible to use while getting dogpiled. I'm not really sure how I feel about this change.

A good opponent already interrupted stam sorcs if the stam sorc wasn't smart enough to create separation. A .2 second increase is a joke.

Smart opponent can counter DD while smart stamsorc can counter smart opponent, and for that reason increase chances to counter DD of smart stamsorc is a joke... #Logic.

I main a magplar. If a stam sorc is dumb enough to stay in melee range while dark dealing, I'll interrupt it. If he's smart enough to create separation, (leave bash range) then there's nothing I can do to interrupt him. A .2 second increase won't fix that. That is logic.

Magplar gap closer literally is an interrupt. All you have to do is press one button and you get the interrupt.

Tiitus

Feanor wrote: »

I'm done arguing Sorc nerfs. The Sorc hunt won't stop until the class is garbage too.

The fact that you said "garbage too" means that you are very much aware of why there is an outcry for sorc nerfs..

Ron_Burgundy_79

LeifErickson wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

This is actually a pretty huge nerf. A good opponent could literally lock you out of your main sustain in a 1v1 and it was almost impossible to use while getting dogpiled. I'm not really sure how I feel about this change.

A good opponent already interrupted stam sorcs if the stam sorc wasn't smart enough to create separation. A .2 second increase is a joke.

Smart opponent can counter DD while smart stamsorc can counter smart opponent, and for that reason increase chances to counter DD of smart stamsorc is a joke... #Logic.

I main a magplar. If a stam sorc is dumb enough to stay in melee range while dark dealing, I'll interrupt it. If he's smart enough to create separation, (leave bash range) then there's nothing I can do to interrupt him. A .2 second increase won't fix that. That is logic.

Magplar gap closer literally is an interrupt. All you have to do is press one button and you get the interrupt.

The magplar gap closer is horrible. Most competent magplars haven't bothered slotting it in over a year.