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• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
Crystal Frag Nerf Not Enough
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Ch4mpTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Nelson_Rebel wrote: »They don't HAVE to nerf sorcs
They need to BUFF other classes and specs for doing Damage
Agreed. Or rather if they do nerf Sorcerers, to do so in a way that the class remains untouched within a PvE environment.2 -
Nelson_Rebel✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nelson_Rebel wrote: »They don't HAVE to nerf sorcs
They need to BUFF other classes and specs for doing Damage
Agreed. Or rather if they do nerf Sorcerers, to do so in a way that the class remains untouched within a PvE environment.
The issue with sorcerers being the 7/8 dominant DPS is soley because of Trial mechanics favoring sorcerers playstyle and the imbalance of pve stam vs magic/risk vs reward way of doing damage.
In an ideal DPS test on the dummies it's true that sorcerers aren't THAT far ahead of other classes. It's just that as soon as you walk in a trial the actual amount of damage done is incredibly in sorcerers favor.
If they did legitimate DPS trackers for the entire group and did a side-by-side comparison of what classes do more damage, the results would be obvious on differenceEdited by Nelson_Rebel on April 30, 2017 1:20AM1 -
Pwnyridah✭✭✭Nerf bag and bag space, most players in the data analysis have never needed extra slots. [SARCASM] NO BUT REALLY 90% OF DATA ANALYSIS IS RIGHT ALL THE TIME 10% OF THE TIME.0
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Shadzilla✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nelson_Rebel wrote: »Nelson_Rebel wrote: »They don't HAVE to nerf sorcs
They need to BUFF other classes and specs for doing Damage
Agreed. Or rather if they do nerf Sorcerers, to do so in a way that the class remains untouched within a PvE environment.
The issue with sorcerers being the 7/8 dominant DPS is soley because of Trial mechanics favoring sorcerers playstyle and the imbalance of pve stam vs magic/risk vs reward way of doing damage.
In an ideal DPS test on the dummies it's true that sorcerers aren't THAT far ahead of other classes. It's just that as soon as you walk in a trial the actual amount of damage done is incredibly in sorcerers favor.
If they did legitimate DPS trackers for the entire group and did a side-by-side comparison of what classes do more damage, the results would be obvious on difference
Top tier trials guilds dont run 6 mag sorcs and 2 mag dks for fun... That is the best possible way to get the best scores. Sorcs ARE that far ahead of other classes, not because of their playstyle. Its because of the damage they do. Failure to see that is comical to say the least.5 -
Iluvrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Nelson_Rebel wrote: »Nelson_Rebel wrote: »They don't HAVE to nerf sorcs
They need to BUFF other classes and specs for doing Damage
Agreed. Or rather if they do nerf Sorcerers, to do so in a way that the class remains untouched within a PvE environment.
The issue with sorcerers being the 7/8 dominant DPS is soley because of Trial mechanics favoring sorcerers playstyle and the imbalance of pve stam vs magic/risk vs reward way of doing damage.
In an ideal DPS test on the dummies it's true that sorcerers aren't THAT far ahead of other classes. It's just that as soon as you walk in a trial the actual amount of damage done is incredibly in sorcerers favor.
If they did legitimate DPS trackers for the entire group and did a side-by-side comparison of what classes do more damage, the results would be obvious on difference
Top tier trials guilds dont run 6 mag sorcs and 2 mag dks for fun... That is the best possible way to get the best scores. Sorcs ARE that far ahead of other classes, not because of their playstyle. Its because of the damage they do. Failure to see that is comical to say the least.
Solution: Remove all competitive content. Now nobody will be OP compared with anyone else.
[Note for tone: Partially tongue-in-cheek]2 -
Malic✭✭✭✭✭
✭. Failure to see that is comical to say the least.
Comical is below
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8o1mbHYG83c
This sorc nerf? THIS IS SERIOUS BUSINESS.0 -
Emmagoldman✭✭✭✭✭
✭Its not fair! I use to use viper/blackrose/tremorscale and now my armor doesnt crit. My ego is broken! I use to be guuuuuuuuuud.1 -
reesenorman✭✭✭Its all about that build diversity that zos want dude.Mundus Core
1st NA Tick-Tock Tormentor
#2 World vHRC: 157'735 // 14 minutes 20 seconds
#1 NA vHOF Clear
#1 NA vHOF HM Clear0 -
YoloWizard✭✭✭RETIRED
World First Vet Maw Of Lorkhaj Clear
World First Vet Halls of Fabrication Clear
World First Vet Asylum Sanctorium +2 Clear
World Record for All Trials Pre Thieves Guild Patch (YT)9 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Stop this crying for more buffs.
Yes it sucks to be nerfed but at this state of the game we really need it.
Remember when IcP and Wgt were the hardest group dungeons since then a lot of time has passed and it is laughable how easy they are now.
Yes there are a lot of players who can't beat vIcp or vWgt HM but we have normal mode for these guys this was the intention of ZoS with 1T to let anyone play any content and not anyone should be able to complete it at any difficulty.
The damage and sustain is just over the top right now if guilds can carry 2 ppl through vMOL hm then something is really wrong with the game. I'll a mediocre player and I've carried 3 really, really bad players through vICP on my stamblade (worst pve spec atm)
The damage had to be reduced a cross the board and they did it, watch @Alcast 's new video.
The sustain nerfs would be fine if there would be a way to have good sustain but lower dps but there isn't one unless you play heavy attack build which is completely broken if you compare it to cost reduction builds.
Buff cost reduction glyphs and change something about heavy attacks and the intention to reduce damage would be achieved without pigeonholing everyone into heavy attack builds5 -
Godeko✭✭✭Sorc logic:
There were enough nerfs to other classes. Please stop with those nerfs.
Yeah, sure. Nerf everything, but please stop before you get to the sorcs.
Sorcs got nerfed too. Sustain changes hit them.
Yeah, because it didnt hit the other classes as well?
Magicka users are the first to cry when stamina users get a reliable shield, I guarantee it.
Meanwhile sorcs are ranged, do insane damage and are survivable af.
Id love to see a nerf to the ground of sorcs. Just once.nEdgy(n+2)me
Champion Points: 600+
Achievement: 18155
Lvl 50 - Khajiit Stamina Nightblade (RIP in pepperoni)
Lvl 50 - High Elf Magicka Scorcerer
Lvl 50 - Breton Magicka Templar (RIP in piece)
First VMA: 22.02.17
First Flawless: 17.03.17
Sharpened Inferno: 23.04.17 http://imgur.com/a/uegfw4 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
This one want to force them to do random veteran dungeons in JuneCaligamy_ESO wrote: »I can't wait til the patch goes live and all these pro-nerfers cry about how they're running out of resources in trials and vet pledges and then complain about that too like threads like this didn't happen.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.1 -
TheHsN✭✭✭✭✭
✭i really dont understand... in PVE sorc is on YOUR SIDE and u want it to make LESS DAMAGE!!!??? REALLY... u are defending from wrong side ..
if u come with pvp stuff i could consider... BUT now u are complaining about whic is ur teammate and make damage for u and u want it to make less damage...:D:D:D FUNNY...
either u cant play sorc and u dont want other people play well and u are jealous or u are molag bal:)...Plays:
Magicka SORC - PvE/PvP
Stamina NB - PvE/PvP
Magicka NB - PvE/PvP
Magicka Templar - PvE
Stamina Templar - PvP
Magicka DK - PvE
Stamina DK - PvE6 -
Jacozilla✭✭✭✭✭Sorc logic:
There were enough nerfs to other classes. Please stop with those nerfs.
Yeah, sure. Nerf everything, but please stop before you get to the sorcs.
Sorcs got nerfed too. Sustain changes hit them.
Yeah, because it didnt hit the other classes as well?
Magicka users are the first to cry when stamina users get a reliable shield, I guarantee it.
Meanwhile sorcs are ranged, do insane damage and are survivable af.
Id love to see a nerf to the ground of sorcs. Just once.
Did you just start playing the game with homestead?
Or are you conveniently missing the big nerfs to sorcs in 2014, again in 2015, again in 2016, and no doubt done to forum cries...once more in 2017
Won't matter though, because good players will be good at whatever class they play. And someone, somewhere will figure out a way to beat someone with the nerfed to ground sorc you asked for, and we'll necro this thread in 2018 to save time for the yet again nerf to sorc.
All classes have had their time in the sun. All classes got nerfed multiple times. The real imbalance is not whether a class gets hurt or not, it's that we constantly have to God damn relearn major aspects of entire class because ZOS just can't make up their mind.
The only thing needs nerfing is ZOS. Hard.4 -
GreenhaloX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Here's a suggestion. Stop the nerfs, and asking for things to get nerfed. Pause for a moment. Think for a few moments. Then proceed with asking that things get buffed to match whatever class or skill is currently overperorming in your opinion. Just a suggestion, however.
Right on.. this!The best stam players in the world struggle to try and breach 50k single target, with horrible cleave and about 70% of the aoe that mag toons pull, IN MELEE WITHOUT SHIELDS.
Yup.. have to agree with this also. Most I hit was around 41k with my Wrecking Blow. Shield also sucks big time for a DK, but for a sorc, very nice.. and no more freaking nerfing, damn!0 -
Nelson_Rebel✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nelson_Rebel wrote: »Nelson_Rebel wrote: »They don't HAVE to nerf sorcs
They need to BUFF other classes and specs for doing Damage
Agreed. Or rather if they do nerf Sorcerers, to do so in a way that the class remains untouched within a PvE environment.
The issue with sorcerers being the 7/8 dominant DPS is soley because of Trial mechanics favoring sorcerers playstyle and the imbalance of pve stam vs magic/risk vs reward way of doing damage.
In an ideal DPS test on the dummies it's true that sorcerers aren't THAT far ahead of other classes. It's just that as soon as you walk in a trial the actual amount of damage done is incredibly in sorcerers favor.
If they did legitimate DPS trackers for the entire group and did a side-by-side comparison of what classes do more damage, the results would be obvious on difference
Top tier trials guilds dont run 6 mag sorcs and 2 mag dks for fun... That is the best possible way to get the best scores. Sorcs ARE that far ahead of other classes, not because of their playstyle. Its because of the damage they do. Failure to see that is comical to say the least.
Failure to see that I was agreeing that sorcerers are over performing is the comical part here.
Seriously I made an entire thread on this lol. But nerfing sorcs Crystal Frags isn't going to fix that. Mechanics need to change to allow other DPS a chance to pull in their damage. otherwise no matter what nerfs happen, sorcerers will always be Number 1 for dps.
We can change that
*edited typo*Edited by Nelson_Rebel on April 30, 2017 6:28PM0 -
Tabbycat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Stop asking for nerfs...do you just want us to just walk around hitting things with broom and bucket?
Perfect. This will solve all of the PvP balancing issues.
Once the player loads into Cyrodiil, they may only equip a broom and a bucket. All other equipment is neatly stored in a special locker.
Players may then proceed to sweep up the competition.Founder and Co-GM of The Psijic Order Guild (NA)
0.016%2 -
Shadzilla✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nelson_Rebel wrote: »Nelson_Rebel wrote: »Nelson_Rebel wrote: »They don't HAVE to nerf sorcs
They need to BUFF other classes and specs for doing Damage
Agreed. Or rather if they do nerf Sorcerers, to do so in a way that the class remains untouched within a PvE environment.
The issue with sorcerers being the 7/8 dominant DPS is soley because of Trial mechanics favoring sorcerers playstyle and the imbalance of pve stam vs magic/risk vs reward way of doing damage.
In an ideal DPS test on the dummies it's true that sorcerers aren't THAT far ahead of other classes. It's just that as soon as you walk in a trial the actual amount of damage done is incredibly in sorcerers favor.
If they did legitimate DPS trackers for the entire group and did a side-by-side comparison of what classes do more damage, the results would be obvious on difference
Top tier trials guilds dont run 6 mag sorcs and 2 mag dks for fun... That is the best possible way to get the best scores. Sorcs ARE that far ahead of other classes, not because of their playstyle. Its because of the damage they do. Failure to see that is comical to say the least.
Failure to see that I was agreeing that sorcerers are over performing is the comical part here.
Seriously I made an entire thread on this lol. But nerfing sorcs Crystal Frags isn't going to fix that. Mechanics need to change to allow other DPS a chance to pull in their damage. otherwise no matter what nerfs happen, sorcerers will always be Number 1 for dps.
We can change that
*edited typo*
I agree that slightly reducing the damage on frags is not nearly enough to bring them down off the massively high dps horse they currently ride. I'm just saying the reason they do so much damage is not the trial mechanics. Its the amount of damage their abilities do. Especially pets.0 -
Nelson_Rebel✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nelson_Rebel wrote: »Nelson_Rebel wrote: »Nelson_Rebel wrote: »They don't HAVE to nerf sorcs
They need to BUFF other classes and specs for doing Damage
Agreed. Or rather if they do nerf Sorcerers, to do so in a way that the class remains untouched within a PvE environment.
The issue with sorcerers being the 7/8 dominant DPS is soley because of Trial mechanics favoring sorcerers playstyle and the imbalance of pve stam vs magic/risk vs reward way of doing damage.
In an ideal DPS test on the dummies it's true that sorcerers aren't THAT far ahead of other classes. It's just that as soon as you walk in a trial the actual amount of damage done is incredibly in sorcerers favor.
If they did legitimate DPS trackers for the entire group and did a side-by-side comparison of what classes do more damage, the results would be obvious on difference
Top tier trials guilds dont run 6 mag sorcs and 2 mag dks for fun... That is the best possible way to get the best scores. Sorcs ARE that far ahead of other classes, not because of their playstyle. Its because of the damage they do. Failure to see that is comical to say the least.
Failure to see that I was agreeing that sorcerers are over performing is the comical part here.
Seriously I made an entire thread on this lol. But nerfing sorcs Crystal Frags isn't going to fix that. Mechanics need to change to allow other DPS a chance to pull in their damage. otherwise no matter what nerfs happen, sorcerers will always be Number 1 for dps.
We can change that
*edited typo*
I agree that slightly reducing the damage on frags is not nearly enough to bring them down off the massively high dps horse they currently ride. I'm just saying the reason they do so much damage is not the trial mechanics. Its the amount of damage their abilities do. Especially pets.
This may be true, but having Ranged DPS as the most effective way of doing damage doesn't help, plus the amount of damage they put out (currently the highest performing)
I propose a two-fold effect. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @Wrobel
Have boss mechanics shift to allow alternate phases where doing one type of damage isn't as viable or as powerful. And create a necessity to have more than just mag sorcs.
This plus a SLIGHT buff to other classs and specs (notably stamina and nightblades both mag and stam) will actually have a chance to compete with the mag sorc domination
This seems like a fair compromise. This way sorcs don't feel nerfed, are still powerful, and allows non Sorcs a real reason to be brought back into trials againEdited by Nelson_Rebel on April 30, 2017 6:58PM1 -
Nelson_Rebel✭✭✭✭✭
✭i really dont understand... in PVE sorc is on YOUR SIDE and u want it to make LESS DAMAGE!!!??? REALLY... u are defending from wrong side ..
if u come with pvp stuff i could consider... BUT now u are complaining about whic is ur teammate and make damage for u and u want it to make less damage...:D:D:D FUNNY...
either u cant play sorc and u dont want other people play well and u are jealous or u are molag bal:)...
Or the fact they are becoming the only acceptable dps into trials could have something to do with it?
That's pretty laughable to me.3 -
Shadzilla✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nelson_Rebel wrote: »Nelson_Rebel wrote: »Nelson_Rebel wrote: »Nelson_Rebel wrote: »They don't HAVE to nerf sorcs
They need to BUFF other classes and specs for doing Damage
Agreed. Or rather if they do nerf Sorcerers, to do so in a way that the class remains untouched within a PvE environment.
The issue with sorcerers being the 7/8 dominant DPS is soley because of Trial mechanics favoring sorcerers playstyle and the imbalance of pve stam vs magic/risk vs reward way of doing damage.
In an ideal DPS test on the dummies it's true that sorcerers aren't THAT far ahead of other classes. It's just that as soon as you walk in a trial the actual amount of damage done is incredibly in sorcerers favor.
If they did legitimate DPS trackers for the entire group and did a side-by-side comparison of what classes do more damage, the results would be obvious on difference
Top tier trials guilds dont run 6 mag sorcs and 2 mag dks for fun... That is the best possible way to get the best scores. Sorcs ARE that far ahead of other classes, not because of their playstyle. Its because of the damage they do. Failure to see that is comical to say the least.
Failure to see that I was agreeing that sorcerers are over performing is the comical part here.
Seriously I made an entire thread on this lol. But nerfing sorcs Crystal Frags isn't going to fix that. Mechanics need to change to allow other DPS a chance to pull in their damage. otherwise no matter what nerfs happen, sorcerers will always be Number 1 for dps.
We can change that
*edited typo*
I agree that slightly reducing the damage on frags is not nearly enough to bring them down off the massively high dps horse they currently ride. I'm just saying the reason they do so much damage is not the trial mechanics. Its the amount of damage their abilities do. Especially pets.
This may be true, but having Ranged DPS as the most effective way of doing damage doesn't help, plus the amount of damage they put out (currently the highest performing)
I propose a two-fold effect.
Have boss mechanics shift to allow alternate phases where doing one type of damage isn't as viable or as powerful. And create a necessity to have more than just mag sorcs.
This plus a SLIGHT buff to other classs and specs (notably stamina and nightblades both mag and stam) will actually have a chance to compete with the mag sorc domination
This seems like a fair compromise. This way sorcs don't feel nerfed, are still powerful, and allows non Sorcs a real reason to be brought back into trials again
You have to look at it from a 3rd party standpoint. Examine what they have done so far, along with how much time/resources it has taken them to do the current changes. They just finished nerfing 3 classes down to make sure they underperform versus the warden, they need the warden to sell. They are not going to buff 3 classes they just nerfed, regardless of what the community wants. The only viable balance option they can do is drop sorcs down to everyone elses level, probably nerfs to pet and liquid lightning. As far as having physical and magic damage having their own special jobs/requirements I did propose that idea in this thread I will link, attempting to get stamina toons back in any sort of PVE competitive content.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/334157/stamina-dps-in-pve-fixed-for-morrowind#latest0 -
Betheny✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I agree, the issue is in the mechanics ZOS themselves have added to the game (in trials).
They need to change the mechanics.0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭All those people jumping down @DHale 's throat are most likely the same people who insisted during the Thieve's Guild patch that only noob sorcerer's would slot a damage shield on PvE. And yes you did, go look at the old PTS forums for yourself.
Metas and the supposed "BiS" means of playing change from month to month, to say nothing of patch to patch.
I have been raiding since August 2014 under numerous leads on all three factions and 90% of those who says they have been slotting Harness Magicka is a flat out liar or just has a terrible memory. For years, those people who make Youtube videos, post on Tamriel foundry, or other forums proclaiming their DPS have not advocated for damage shields. Go and see for yourself ... but be sure to check the publication date. You will see proximity detonation on their bar but not harness magicka. You didn't need harness magicka to do hard mode AA, you could simply block the meteors or invest enough in CP and resistance to survive them altogether. Those who used harness were just lowering their DPS (hence, those accusation sorcs who shield in PvE were "noobs")
When the new Trial MoL was released, it was clear ZoS tried to get us to do more than just "stack and burn (yet we do it anyway) and it's primary means of killing players were one-shots for not following mechanics and huge overlapping spike damage. It was at this point did Hodor and other top guilds start bring in magicka DPS although at this point in the game, stam DPS was unequivocally higher (before destro ult, maelstrom nerf, etc) because they were best suited to survive the incoming strike damage. So a new Meta was born. and even though groups have been clearing AA, Hel Ra, and SO for years without using a damage shield, now all of a sudden it's somehow a standard such that we are expected to slot and use it in places other than Maw.
All that being said, the crystal frag nerf is 100% gratuitous, something just thrown in by the devs because the forum uproar that they weren't the only class nerfed.Edited by Joy_Division on April 30, 2017 7:51PMMake Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.6 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Wow.. All this nerf hatred. Do you guys ever stop and think? If you made a line out of 100 peas, and one was out of position, would you move the other 99 up to line up with the wrong one?
Then you realise that they are all too close to the edge of the table and so have to build an extension to it..
Its a good job coding is a lot simpler than moving peas, and there's a lot less that can go wrong.. And then cos everything has been buffed, content is too easy so you gotta buff all the mobs too (widen the table).
Or, you could always just move one pea down a little instead.
Edited by Biro123 on April 30, 2017 7:54PMMinalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.0 -
Nelson_Rebel✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wow.. All this nerf hatred. Do you guys ever stop and think? If you made a line out of 100 peas, and one was out of position, would you move the other 99 up to line up with the wrong one?
Then you realise that they are all too close to the edge of the table and so have to build an extension to it..
Its a good job coding is a lot simpler than moving peas, and there's a lot less that can go wrong.. And then cos everything has been buffed, content is too easy so you gotta buff all the mobs too (widen the table).
Or, you could always just move one pea down a little instead.
While this is a good metaphor. The problem is they already moved all the peas down far below from that table edge already when one of those peas didn't get touched as much.
So now sorcs are twice as superior as before
It's not hate for nerfs, it's that there are better longer lasting options0 -
Darnathian✭✭✭✭✭
✭For the love of Akatosh, please STOP STOP STOP asking for more nerfs! It's insane. We need to bring things up to par with Sorcs, not just add them to the nerf pile. That does not solve anything. Stop asking for more nerfs.
I wish i had the motivation to look up players history that say dont nerf thier class but bring up others. How many of them made comments to nerf other classes before. Lol1 -
Wow.. All this nerf hatred. Do you guys ever stop and think? If you made a line out of 100 peas, and one was out of position, would you move the other 99 up to line up with the wrong one?
Then you realise that they are all too close to the edge of the table and so have to build an extension to it..
Its a good job coding is a lot simpler than moving peas, and there's a lot less that can go wrong.. And then cos everything has been buffed, content is too easy so you gotta buff all the mobs too (widen the table).
Or, you could always just move one pea down a little instead.
The issue with sorcs being so far ahead is barely even grazed by this nerf that does nothing to address the actual main sources of sorc dps/burst combined with the mechanics that allow them to be delivered from safety not available to most other dps...in your scenario it's akin to taking the peas, crushing them up and freebasing them and then hanging out nude at the loading dock in hopes of catching the mailman conducting espionage on behalf of his home planet.1 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just want to correct you a little bit, magdks are pulling more single target DPS than magsorcs.
Edited by hmsdragonfly on May 1, 2017 12:37AMAldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!0 -
Stamden✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dark Exchange, Curse, and Shields are what need to get nerfed. I really hope frags is not all they're doing..PC NA
~Currently taking a break from the game until my DK can become something more than just a crafter~2
