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My Thoughts on Balance changes

TheRopemaker
To preface this i have not played the pts (xbox player) Just my thoughts about the balance changes currently being proposed.

Resource management.

Mostly i dislike most of the changes proposed here, I understand the desire for this from ZOS's perspective but as a player it is a nightmare running out of magika/stamina. In most high end gameplay you run out and you are dead. Though even with these changes it would probably be possible to sustain with the right sets you would take a significant loss in dps for running these instead of the current BIS gear.

The changes to a lot of skills that restore resource to scale based off character level seems a bad one, nearly every class in the game stacks a single stat most dps/healers running at 35k plus main stat and tanks running at around 20k of each. to base these values off character level rather then a percentage of the stat that the build has focused into seems unintuitive.

For pvp i understand that having access to large amounts of regen or abilities to restore resource is a problem however can this not be solved by an addition to the modifiers you receive upon entering cyrodyll. I understand the amount of programming required would be rather large to split apart the effects of many skills and passives between pve and pvp, plus the problem of easy transition for newer players. However my argument would be there is no way to properly balance such a large variety of skills so they work effectively in both pve and pvp, as for the problem of newer player transition pvp is always hard on the newer players even with the game as it is now its a wildly different skillset.

If i was thinking about changing the way resource management worked in pvp i would add a second playlist of the battlegrounds that had new modifiers each week (similar to the Blizzard type brawls in their games) these would be fun for the community while providing valuable data for ZOS on changes that might be worthwhile going into the rest of the game.

Dragonknight

Battle roar change: Dragonknights arguably have the most problems sustaining in long fights a nerf to the amount of recorce they restore for their stacked stat would really hurt them in long fights, i personally preferred it when this passive restored 75% of each resource. i know this is a problem in pvp i my mind changing this skill to restore 30-40% of resource in pvp would fix this problem, as in pve having the flood of resource in a long battle is needed for dks to sustain.

Helping hands: Not a terrible change mainly a nerf to stamina dragon knights, wont hurt tanks too much.

Igneous Shield: Really dislike this the shield is fairly negligible for all builds but tanks on my magika and stam dks the shield only protects for around 6k, in maelstrom or in a fair few dungeons it will be all but impossible to utilize major mending, maybe change it so on activation it provides a 3 second major mending buff but you can only get that buff every 6 seconds from this ability.

Nightblade


Not well practiced on night blades, i like that leaching strikes is now a stamina morph, Night blades so suffer in survivability so an addition to health restore would be welcome. don't know how this will affect them without seeing the magnitude of the nerf.

Sorcerer

Dark exchange: already takes a while to cast but cant see 0.2 seconds making much of a difference.

Templar

Spear Shards: i dont really understand the reasoning in the developer notes in this, this change wont mean the Templar wont have to feed resource to the team (if anything it will be more due to the changes) not keen on making this and necrotic orb the same, seem to take away from class specialization.

Eclipse: Never used it however in pve 3.5 second abilities are horrible to maintain (wasn't the sorcs curse changed so it lines up a bit better, why make one rotation good and in next patch hurt a different classes rotation?).

Repentance: This is a horrible change, it will become a pointless morph for anything but a stam Templar, Takes away an efficient heal and stam restore from Templar healers.

Rushed ceremony: I dont mind this too much the heal hasn't been nerfed will just require a little better positioning from healers.

Sacred ground: I understand why Zos wants to change this but maybe tack major mending onto a different skill in the templar skill lines. templars are a healing class they should have some access to this buff without having to heavy attack with a resto staff.

Armor

The cost reduction nerf in these skill lines is really going to hurt with the nerfs to champion points ect.

Vigor

I get it it is probably too cheap, however it is also the only unconditional heal that most stam classes have access to in pvp, this will make maelstrom a ton harder for stam classes.

Caltops

Thankyou, thankyou so much.

Racial

Argonian: this is fine if all the character level scalings were at a "cap" of 38k i wouldn't have too much to complain about.

Redguard: Redguard is chosen for stam dps for a sustained fighter i dont hink i have ever met a stam dps with less stam then 16k why nerf this?

Champion System

I like the front loading that seems like a good idea it will open up trials and maelstrom for more players. I really dislike the nerfs to the most commonly used passives losing 10% damage and resistances is a huge deal in a game that has so many bosses based on doing enough damage to a boss in a given time.


Bow-Expert/Melee expert I like these changes this will make the tree much more useful as a whole.

Ironclad: good change will make this more desirable in pvp

Magician/Warlord: really dislike this change as i have said above running out of makgica and stamina is not fun gameplay, with the removal of these passives i have no idea what to put points in in the red trees for a dps most of the things are useless, if these passives are being removed the red tre needs to have a whole revamp to give each style of play (tank/healer/dps) an efficiant way to use these points.

Summary

Im worried, really worried. I was extremely exited for Morrowind, now after reading the PTS patch notes im sat here wondering if im even going to be able to complete maelstrom and veteran trials. Zos i understand where you are coming from with these changes, when you made the game you wanted it to be about resource management with no cooldowns, however today management is not really a thing f you are good at maintaining your rotations and buffs and you know what, thats fantastic i love the combat system in this game, i love there are no cooldowns and i love that with practice at my rotation with a good healer i can have strong dps for as long as i need to. With these changes i can see myself being continually frustrated in combat, i feel like trials teams will either not be able to get the dps to get through bosses or have the team run out of everything halfway through.

In my opinion the only way to balance both Pve and Pve is to have a deeper split between the two, have skills work differently in each, then when there is a problem with one ability in a certain area it can be changed without affecting the other side of the playerbase.

  • argouru
    argouru
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    As a seasoned nightblade player, the changes to Siphoning Strikes is bittersweet from what I've read (I don't play the PTS as I have no access to it). Stamblades needed a decent class heal (which they've always lacked), but with Leeching Strikes, you have to spend a third to half of the time it's active just recovering what you spent to cast it, making it all but useless as a resource-restoring power, which is the main point of the power. The heal is very nice, but this power becomes useless if you need it as an emergency resource-restoration power. If they flipped the cost types (magicka for stamina restore and stamina for magicka restore) it wouldn't be nearly as bad as it is. They need to fix the cost while keeping the health gain it now gives to make it a decent power again.
  • FlyLionel
    FlyLionel
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    argouru wrote: »
    As a seasoned nightblade player, the changes to Siphoning Strikes is bittersweet from what I've read (I don't play the PTS as I have no access to it). Stamblades needed a decent class heal (which they've always lacked), but with Leeching Strikes, you have to spend a third to half of the time it's active just recovering what you spent to cast it, making it all but useless as a resource-restoring power, which is the main point of the power. The heal is very nice, but this power becomes useless if you need it as an emergency resource-restoration power. If they flipped the cost types (magicka for stamina restore and stamina for magicka restore) it wouldn't be nearly as bad as it is. They need to fix the cost while keeping the health gain it now gives to make it a decent power again.

    Nightblades were heading into the direction of the better sustain route compared to the rest of the classes (a buff for pve/pvp for just being this class). Now that all this has happened(Patch notes, what they intend to do*) we are holding hands with the other classes when it comes to sustain, ideally right? Come on BOI..and a Templar doesn't have major mending built in its class? Is this a fake movie? Oh well, time will tell.
    The Flyers
  • NightbladeMechanics
    NightbladeMechanics
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    argouru wrote: »
    As a seasoned nightblade player, the changes to Siphoning Strikes is bittersweet from what I've read (I don't play the PTS as I have no access to it). Stamblades needed a decent class heal (which they've always lacked), but with Leeching Strikes, you have to spend a third to half of the time it's active just recovering what you spent to cast it, making it all but useless as a resource-restoring power, which is the main point of the power. The heal is very nice, but this power becomes useless if you need it as an emergency resource-restoration power. If they flipped the cost types (magicka for stamina restore and stamina for magicka restore) it wouldn't be nearly as bad as it is. They need to fix the cost while keeping the health gain it now gives to make it a decent power again.

    Leeching/Siphoning might be decent in PvE, but they will be meaningless in all PvP. will not be a decent self heal. The tooltip is very small after Battle Spirit, the heal turns off when you're on defense, and it can't crit currently.

    Also many stamblade builds use Siphoning for dual magicka and stamina resource sustain. Almost all competitive mageblade builds rely on it. Decoupling those is questionable.

    I would be interested to hear your opinion on my proposal here:

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/336539/proposed-alternative-to-the-siphoning-attacks-leeching-strikes-changes-and-why
    Kena
    Legion XIII
    Excellence without elitism
    Premier small scale PvP

    Legend
    NA/PC's original dueling and PvP community guild
    Now NA/PC's dueling, BGs, small scale, GvG, and general PvP community. We float just under 500 members. Mail me in game for an invite.


    Apex Predator.

    Here's a great thread collecting community ideas for PvP updates.

    [MEGATHREAD] Feedback Threads for Class Reps

    Class Representative Feedback Discords:
    Nightblade Discussion:
    https://discord.gg/t2Xhnu6

    Dragonknight Discussion:
    https://discord.gg/UHtZhz8

    Sorcerer Discussion:
    https://discord.gg/e3QkCS8

    Templar Discussion:
    https://discord.gg/WvVuSw7

    Warden Discussion:
    https://discord.gg/sTFY4ys

    General Healing Discussion:
    https://discord.gg/6CmzBFb

    TONKS!
    https://discord.gg/DRNYd39

    Werewolf Discussion:
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    Vampire Discussion:
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  • Durham
    Durham
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    Stam DK was obliterated everything that was unique is close to trash atm....
    PVP DEADWAIT
    PVP The Unguildables
  • idk
    idk
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    Sorry. Stopped readying at the DK section when it said DK tanks have the most trouble with sustain in long fights.

    On live DK tanks have the best sustain on live. Helping hands at the core since it's a fabulous stam restore. 5% of max stam when it's at 27-30k is significant. Battle roar is good but as it is as long as I have magika I have stam.

    This is whether stopped reading.
  • Izaki
    Izaki
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    You like the Caltrops changes? I don't. Its a nerf in sustain and not even a boost in single target DPS. The only thing that cool is that its stackable, but no one runs stamina in trials anyway so its not really a problem.
    @ Izaki #PCEU
    #FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
    #MoreDPSthanYou
    #Stamblade
  • NightbladeMechanics
    NightbladeMechanics
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    Sorry. Stopped readying at the DK section when it said DK tanks have the most trouble with sustain in long fights.

    On live DK tanks have the best sustain on live. Helping hands at the core since it's a fabulous stam restore. 5% of max stam when it's at 27-30k is significant. Battle roar is good but as it is as long as I have magika I have stam.

    This is whether stopped reading.

    lol I stopped reading the op at the very beginning when he complained about having to manage resources.
    Edited by NightbladeMechanics on April 21, 2017 3:55PM
    Kena
    Legion XIII
    Excellence without elitism
    Premier small scale PvP

    Legend
    NA/PC's original dueling and PvP community guild
    Now NA/PC's dueling, BGs, small scale, GvG, and general PvP community. We float just under 500 members. Mail me in game for an invite.


    Apex Predator.

    Here's a great thread collecting community ideas for PvP updates.

    [MEGATHREAD] Feedback Threads for Class Reps

    Class Representative Feedback Discords:
    Nightblade Discussion:
    https://discord.gg/t2Xhnu6

    Dragonknight Discussion:
    https://discord.gg/UHtZhz8

    Sorcerer Discussion:
    https://discord.gg/e3QkCS8

    Templar Discussion:
    https://discord.gg/WvVuSw7

    Warden Discussion:
    https://discord.gg/sTFY4ys

    General Healing Discussion:
    https://discord.gg/6CmzBFb

    TONKS!
    https://discord.gg/DRNYd39

    Werewolf Discussion:
    https://discord.gg/aDEx2ev

    Vampire Discussion:
    https://discord.gg/yfzck8Q
  • TheRopemaker
    Sorry. Stopped readying at the DK section when it said DK tanks have the most trouble with sustain in long fights.

    On live DK tanks have the best sustain on live. Helping hands at the core since it's a fabulous stam restore. 5% of max stam when it's at 27-30k is significant. Battle roar is good but as it is as long as I have magika I have stam.

    This is whether stopped reading.

    lol I stopped reading the op at the very beginning when he complained about having to manage resources.

    Didn't mention do tanks having trouble sustaining I meant dps sorry that was not clear.
    As for complaining about managing resources I was not complaining about managing them I was saying severe nerfs like these would amount to a large amount of people running out in long fights. Running out of resources no matter what you do is not fun.
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