Panth141 wrote: »

Okay, here's some data:

Thanks for this. This is great and is exactly what this thread is for. Heavy Attacks Online!

NBrookus wrote: »

Switching to mag DK...

I don't have a PVE mag DK setup. 5 heavy + 1 + 1 Rattlecage/Seducer/Bloodspawn dual S&B. 1200 regen, 2250 spell damage, 34k magicka; jewelry is 2 cost reduction, 1 spell damage, atronach mundus. I took on the target skelly as if it were pvp; i.e. keeping my buffs up and cc'ing on cooldown, etc.

With 2 tripots and an ultimate... I was totally OOM in 1 minute 9 seconds. Which is rarely fast enough to kill a player 1v1 on a mag DK.

Wouldn't the other player also be on the same sustain footing?... Try pvping a live human instead?

Has anyone had success stam PVP sword shield with out shield ulti.
I made a post above still trying to make this meta work...

So improve pvp and tough you-know-what for pve-ers? This is going to kill the game for a lot of players. I might take a 3 month break until the next update to see if it gets any better, assuming they leave things as they are now. I'm okay with SOME nerfing, but this is flat-out crippling.

Artis wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Zarrakon wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

I'm having trouble completing DELVES with the reduction in CP resource management and the nerf to the resource return for Light Armor. The Mobs were a hassle, but I found I could wipe them out at about the same time my Magicka ran out fully. The Delve Boss? I had to fully run out of it's aggro area to the point that the tether kicked in and reset the Boss back to its spawn point... even using Potions I crafted myself (which are infinitely more potent than the ones the game gives you), I couldn't regen Magicka fast enough to take out a Delve Boss. Even in a group, the only reason we beat the Boss is due to combined DPS, and even then, our resources were completely depleted.

Sorry, but there is something seriously wrong that has nothing to do with CPs if you cannot complete a delve because you're running out of resources. Like, if you literally went in and ONLY cast puncturing sweeps on everything you saw, you should be able to clear a delve without any CP at all (wearing level-appropriate gear).

Name me a player who only uses one Skill in their arsenal.

Just one.

There's no way to keep any or enough resources to tackle the content. And if I do as you say; use no other Skill except for Puncturing Sweeps, so that my Magicka doesn't deplete in less than 15 seconds, that doesn't make what the Update has done to the game any better.

That's saying: "We nerfed your resource management tools so drastically, that the only way you can make it through content is to literally spam one skill (and still hope your Magicka/Stamina don't run out).

I even weaved in Light and Heavy attacks, but the update nerfs the return from those attacks so much, that you only get back slightly less than a third of what you spend to activate a Skill.

This update is horrifically punishing any type of Skill use, by making your resources deplete at an ungodly rate, while making your resource return next to nothing.

1)That is irrelevant. 2) & 3)Bosses in delves die to a few skills, they don't even survive enough to complete one rotation. 4)We plain don't believe you.

1) It's actually not irrelevant at all. It's what you suggested.

2) Aaaaaand what gear set-up are you using? Aside from hyperbole, you're providing nothing to counter my direct experience with the changes currently on the PTS...

3) Are you using only Crafted gear that 98% of the population only has access to play with? Or are you using BiS Trial/Arena Monster Set drops? Because the "Elite-end-game-level" players are going to have far more and better means to mitigate the changes than the vast majority of the Casual Player base will have; and those "elite-end-game-level" players total only around 2% of the total player base across all three platforms.

4) Who is this "We" you mention? Have you read the other replies in this thread and on the rest of the PTS Forums? I ask because just a simple, quick read-through of the majority of the threads shows that the vast majority of players share MY experience with this new update.

If you're going to spout off without even bothering to test the changes, then you can be completely disregarded in like turn. Just let me know if you're actually going to get into the PTS and test some of this. And I mean, actually test the changes.

No "end-game-level-Monster-uber-gear" either. These changes are easily negated by the absolute highest level end-game gear. But again; the VAST majority of players won't ever have access to that gear.

Give these changes a true test, a REAL test.

But I think, for the sake of your own ego, you won't be able to do it. Or at least, you won't be able to do it and come on here and tell the truth about it.

1. Yes, this is completely irrelevant."Name 1 player who uses 1 skill"? PFfff. I'm using half a skill for delves, not even 1.
2. With ANY gear setup I used starting from crafted julianos or TBS and finishing with BSW - I had no troubles with delve bosses ever. Not using food buff and not using potions => playing without major sorcery buff. Haven't had to use anything for pledges ever. Just whichever gear I'm wearing atm, no consumables. Oh, also I used my alts for undaunted dailies and for events. My low level alts in random gear (not even matched to level sometimes) kill delve bosses in seconds.
3. This is irrelevant, too. The difference between those sets is only seen in long fights. The relative difference is within 5%, maybe 10%. That's not seen in shorter fights including even dungeons. Delves? Bosses in delves die in a few seconds.
4. I and at least 2 more people who called you out. You're either lying or exaggerating. Or your templar is not a DPS.

And were you using unicorn kisses as your "half a skill" as well?

You're flat out lying now. I will not engage someone who cannot even have the decency to discourse seriously.

Have a great day.

I'm not interested in what parses I get on a target skeleton.

Quite frankly, I don;t care if my DPS higher in the Morrowind patch than it is now.

What I do care about is interesting gameplay and class distinctiveness. Both are getting the soul sucked out of them simply because ZoS is instead just giving everyone free generic power in the CP system.

I'm not sure why ZoS thinks slotting 2 cost reduction glyphs instead of 2 spell damage glyphs makes for more interesting gameplay, but I do not share that perceptive. Especially when I can no longer even control what resource to give to my tank.

fericirea wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Delves are too hard (paraphrasing)

I'm going to regret jumping into this, but to be fair, delve content is extremely easy. Analytically speaking, a typical delve boss has ~140k health. With 7k DPS (which is about the same as alternating between light attacking and using some damaging skill), you can down a delve boss in about 20s solo.

Of course everyone inserts a skill now and then. Delves are also easily soloable from early levels onward. If you are having problems completing delves in a group, I don't think the lowest hanging fruit in terms of addressing what is preventing you from succeeding lies in any of these changes.

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

This reminds me of this thread back when the Wrothgar PTS first came out: Some max level dude couldn't kill some quest boss (So he says, to this day I think he just wanted to faceroll the content and he was trying to start fake drama "You are gonna loose customers blah blah")... Literally the thread was filled with people going, "Umm, I can't bar swap yet and I was able to kill that boss"

One of the few laughs around here. I wish I could find it!

Durham wrote: »

I have been testing stam DK PVP. Wow what a difference it's bad you pretty much have to run the OP shield ulti .... The nerfs were stacked on this meta pretty hard....

-PVP blocking cost is just crazy up 50%
-50% increase cost in vigor when add in champ point change
-42% decrease in stam and magicka from armor.. keep in mind shields is extremely expensive..
-60% stam return is gone from class passive
-20% increase in stam abilities when factor champ changes
-25 decrease in healing

When you put all this together it's not good...

You forgot -100% decrease to motivation to play the game.

fericirea wrote: »

gard wrote: »

How is it that your ultimate shows roughly the same uptime (number of hits) on both parses when you aren't generating ultimate with no light attacks? That suggests that you aren't using it when it comes off cooldown in the light attack parse.

I don't know. It's a good question. I was using ult more or less as soon as it was available. Combat metrics is wonky sometimes. For example, on the heavy weave parse, it doesn't even show I had Crit Surge up ever.

EDIT: I misread your question. I was still weaving light attacks on my back bar via bow. Ult generation is 3 ult/s for 8s after each light attack, and I was returning to my back bar roughly every 8s.

Ult is generated on heavy attacks as well - light attacks aren't needed.

Artis wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Zarrakon wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

I'm having trouble completing DELVES with the reduction in CP resource management and the nerf to the resource return for Light Armor. The Mobs were a hassle, but I found I could wipe them out at about the same time my Magicka ran out fully. The Delve Boss? I had to fully run out of it's aggro area to the point that the tether kicked in and reset the Boss back to its spawn point... even using Potions I crafted myself (which are infinitely more potent than the ones the game gives you), I couldn't regen Magicka fast enough to take out a Delve Boss. Even in a group, the only reason we beat the Boss is due to combined DPS, and even then, our resources were completely depleted.

Sorry, but there is something seriously wrong that has nothing to do with CPs if you cannot complete a delve because you're running out of resources. Like, if you literally went in and ONLY cast puncturing sweeps on everything you saw, you should be able to clear a delve without any CP at all (wearing level-appropriate gear).

Name me a player who only uses one Skill in their arsenal.

Just one.

There's no way to keep any or enough resources to tackle the content. And if I do as you say; use no other Skill except for Puncturing Sweeps, so that my Magicka doesn't deplete in less than 15 seconds, that doesn't make what the Update has done to the game any better.

That's saying: "We nerfed your resource management tools so drastically, that the only way you can make it through content is to literally spam one skill (and still hope your Magicka/Stamina don't run out).

I even weaved in Light and Heavy attacks, but the update nerfs the return from those attacks so much, that you only get back slightly less than a third of what you spend to activate a Skill.

This update is horrifically punishing any type of Skill use, by making your resources deplete at an ungodly rate, while making your resource return next to nothing.

That is irrelevant. Bosses in delves die to a few skills, they don't even survive enough to complete one rotation. We plain don't believe you.

I get the impression that some are reporting results on a template build (no race passives, not "right gear" i.e.) and others are reporting their ported Live main characters results? Just a thought.

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

*** I am not in the Closed Beta, this is just testing based off of the Base Game Changes coming with the 3.0 Update ***

Resource management is going to be a very huge issue.

I Main a Magicka Templar DPS (Dunmer). I retooled all his gear with a specific mind to maximize Resource regen (5x Seducer [including Destro Flame Staff], 3x Magnus's Gift, and 3x Destruction Mastery [jewelry])(for armor I went with all Light).

With this set-up, I sacrificed a lot in DPS in favor of maximizing resource return; but I figured "what the hell, it may take me a bit longer, but if this resource gear works well, I can handle an increase in TTK, because I'll have the Magicka to back up a longer fight".

I am still rampantly running out of Magicka, and it takes me 30 seconds or longer to replenish a fully spent Magicka pool...

I'm having trouble completing DELVES with the reduction in CP resource management and the nerf to the resource return for Light Armor. The Mobs were a hassle, but I found I could wipe them out at about the same time my Magicka ran out fully. The Delve Boss? I had to fully run out of it's aggro area to the point that the tether kicked in and reset the Boss back to its spawn point... even using Potions I crafted myself (which are infinitely more potent than the ones the game gives you), I couldn't regen Magicka fast enough to take out a Delve Boss. Even in a group, the only reason we beat the Boss is due to combined DPS, and even then, our resources were completely depleted.

I was not able to complete a Public Dungeon. Period.

I couldn't get through the tougher, higher number Mobs at all, and mitigation through Potions helped in the same manner as for the Delves (as in; so little that it was like I didn't use a potion at all).

So our little group then tried a World Boss. That was a *** joke. On us. And we were the punchline.

Talking to the guys in our group of four, our Stamina characters were depleting their Stamina pools just as fast (our StamDK Sword & Board had it worse off than the rest of us) as the Magicka Characters were. Not even our Sorc was able to keep his Magicka pool at a decent flow rate.

Every one was running out of resources fast enough that we couldn't complete the base content.

We briefly discussed trying one of the 4-man Group Dungeons, but quickly decided that was simply out of the question with how our performance in the above content acted out.

If these changes to resource sustain/cost reduction remain "as is", I have no idea how players (even the "elite" end-game players) are going to complete ANY of the Trials.

Stack that Resource sustain/cost reduction with the changes to how the Class Skills and abilities act, and I can easily see Trials and Group Dungeons would be simply unplayable.

This Update 3.0 is going to be a cancer, and actually being able to play a Class (any class really...) is going to be a monumental increase in difficulty.

This coming update is abhorrent, and my wife and I signed out of the PTS in disgust. All we could do was shake our heads at how bad of an experience it was.

I quoted myself to add in this additional thought:

I am not an "Elite-end-game-player". I am, if anything, a slightly above average Casual player.

I use only Crafted Sets, as I cannot (due to circumstance and time constraints) grind the Trials and Group Dungeons for Monster Drop Sets. I have not done the Dragonstar Arena, Maelstrom Arena, or (again) any of the Trials and Group dungeons.

My play time and real life limit me to a couple of hours per night, and I am only ever really able to run Delves, Public Dungeons, and do the Daily Mages Guild/Fighters Guild/Dark Brotherhood quests.

I have discovered every crafting location in the game, and thus I have a decent working knowledge of the Crafted Sets, and how they interact in the game world for Overland and Base Game content. My friends that I group with on those rare occasions that we can Group, are in the same position that I am.

While mitigating or finding a "work around" for the Resource sustain/cost reduction nerfs might be a relatively easy thing for those aforementioned "elite end game content players" only around 1-2% of the game population has conquered that same end-game content.

The other 98%-99% of the game, are in the same situation as my friends an I are.

If the resource management changes are hitting us (again; slightly above average players) as hard as they are, where even Delves are an issue and tougher content is simply impossible to complete due to resource constraints; imagine how hard these changes are going to hit the "average" and "below average" players.

For them, even overland Mobs might be a very serious issue and very difficult to complete if these changes stay "as is".

While those elite players may actually have some great advice for lower ability players, those casual players aren't going to seek them out. They'll see that they can't do anything with their characters after this patch drops, and what do you think those Casual players will do at that point?

While it might be very easy for those Elite players to sift through multiple combinations of Sets to find the right balance between DPS and sustain in order to keep their resources high; casual players don't have that luxury, and due to their own constraints, likely never will have that option.

This is not going to be a good change to the game. None of 3.0 is going to be good for the game.

Again; while this might seem like an absurdly easy fix for the Elite end-game content players, the rest of the game populace is going to suffer greatly with this update.

I love ESO. It's one of the better MMO's I've played over the last 20+ years. But this upcoming patch is one of the worst I've ever seen in the entire MMORPG genre.

And that's the view and experience from the "other 98%" after playing it for a couple days on this PTS.

No offense, but could you fill in your gear cp? It sounds like you had no cp and were naked. It can't be that bad... You may be a bit generous on your capabilities of you're having this much of a problem.

Just hit the PTS. I made some quick changes to CP's, same gear, same rotations, and that doesn't work at all. I'm not sure there will be a way to get anywhere close to where I was at by changing gear, etc. Getting sustain to a place that allows a longer fight ( > 1 min) without running out of stam may be doable (and I question that), but not without a heavy hit to dps. Stamplar here. So, yet again, a nerf that I did not really need.

Quick summary: quests still a sleepwalk. Didn't do a delve, but I suspect also a sleepwalk. No WB. Went straight to FG1. Normal mode was not a sleepwalk, but easy enough through the first boss that i didn't continue. Think normal mode can still be soloed if you remain conscious through it.

Vet mode is not going to be soloable anymore for this boy. Running out of stam on the first trash mob, a death on the second trash mob (!). So, I really woke up for the first boss. Got him down, maybe the last third of the fight with no stam. Did not continue, but I think it's safe to say that I'd be able to get through the second boss with some concentration and probably a few deaths, but I don't think the dreugh boss can be killed with the current setup.

Didn't try it, but I'm sure I won't be able to put out enough dps to put down either of the trash mobs before they kill me. I didn't see any mention of health recovery issues, but I was definitely having to watch my health bar very closely. On this content, I never really look at it and typically never get a low health warning.

Also tried vMA a bit. 1 death on the first arena. Sustain an issue, but not too difficult. Got the first boss down. But, I've run vMA many times, and the first arena is really just a warm up. I'm sure I could do it without a death with the changes if I focused a bit more, but this was a sleeper round before. Didn't move on to the next arenas. I've done vMA enough to judge the difficulty level from what I'm seeing on the first arena.

If you've been putting off vMA but intended to get around to it later, you might want to shoot for a complete before June. It's going to be a lot more difficult after the update as it stands, and we all know how much fun that first complete can be.

So, this quick run on the PTS server makes it clear that I will have to make some major changes, and that will require some time to figure out. Another gear grind to get legendary gear, as I'm sure my current stuff is not going to be the answer. At this point, I'm not at all excited about this major update. I think the idea is that I would be.

Instead, I'm considering whether I really want to go through all that. I would be considering that if continuing were free, which it's not. I don't think these changes will make the game fresh and exciting again. We'll see how this shapes up in the next month or so, and I guess I'll decide what to do when the time comes.