Thread for those who actually tested in PTS

fericirea

Panth141 wrote: »

Okay, here's some data:

Thanks for this. This is great and is exactly what this thread is for. Heavy Attacks Online!

pattyLtd

Sounds to me that the amazing combat designers, developers or whatever its valled forget one thing about their ttype of product.

ITS SUPPOSED TO BE FUN!

Flattedfifth

NBrookus wrote: »

Switching to mag DK...

I don't have a PVE mag DK setup. 5 heavy + 1 + 1 Rattlecage/Seducer/Bloodspawn dual S&B. 1200 regen, 2250 spell damage, 34k magicka; jewelry is 2 cost reduction, 1 spell damage, atronach mundus. I took on the target skelly as if it were pvp; i.e. keeping my buffs up and cc'ing on cooldown, etc.

With 2 tripots and an ultimate... I was totally OOM in 1 minute 9 seconds. Which is rarely fast enough to kill a player 1v1 on a mag DK.

Wouldn't the other player also be on the same sustain footing?... Try pvping a live human instead?

smacx250

I'm a pretty average player. I took my solo-focused mag sorc on PTS, reworked the CP to cap (so 30 more than live), but didn't change any gear or skills. I've got 5 magnus and one regen jewels enchant for some regen (other is 4 elegance & 2 willpower w/spell damage). After reworking CP my regen was pretty close to the same, but overall loss of cost reduction resulted in skills being about 1/3 more expensive! The CP changes seem to have actually upped damage a bit as with the front loading I could invest into more areas for overall better effect (e.g., got exploiter). Overland mobs, delves, and public dungeons were probably a little easier due to the increased damage. My build is mostly lightning AoE focused (WoE, LL, lighting heavies), and AoEing down trash seemed quicker than on live. Sustain on single target was down quite a bit, but still ok for the public dungeon bosses. I haven't tried soloing normal dungeon or world bosses on PTS. I expect it to be more challenging, as even with about the same regen it may be problematic keeping shields and heals going with the 1/3 cost increase, even with mostly heavy attacks. I may need to re-skill/equip for more mag return. I haven't tried PvP on PTS.

Artis

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Zarrakon wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

I'm having trouble completing DELVES with the reduction in CP resource management and the nerf to the resource return for Light Armor. The Mobs were a hassle, but I found I could wipe them out at about the same time my Magicka ran out fully. The Delve Boss? I had to fully run out of it's aggro area to the point that the tether kicked in and reset the Boss back to its spawn point... even using Potions I crafted myself (which are infinitely more potent than the ones the game gives you), I couldn't regen Magicka fast enough to take out a Delve Boss. Even in a group, the only reason we beat the Boss is due to combined DPS, and even then, our resources were completely depleted.

Sorry, but there is something seriously wrong that has nothing to do with CPs if you cannot complete a delve because you're running out of resources. Like, if you literally went in and ONLY cast puncturing sweeps on everything you saw, you should be able to clear a delve without any CP at all (wearing level-appropriate gear).

Name me a player who only uses one Skill in their arsenal.

Just one.

There's no way to keep any or enough resources to tackle the content. And if I do as you say; use no other Skill except for Puncturing Sweeps, so that my Magicka doesn't deplete in less than 15 seconds, that doesn't make what the Update has done to the game any better.

That's saying: "We nerfed your resource management tools so drastically, that the only way you can make it through content is to literally spam one skill (and still hope your Magicka/Stamina don't run out).

I even weaved in Light and Heavy attacks, but the update nerfs the return from those attacks so much, that you only get back slightly less than a third of what you spend to activate a Skill.

This update is horrifically punishing any type of Skill use, by making your resources deplete at an ungodly rate, while making your resource return next to nothing.

That is irrelevant. Bosses in delves die to a few skills, they don't even survive enough to complete one rotation. We plain don't believe you.

Hutch679

Some insightful advice: Don't buy Morrowind.

Durham

Has anyone had success stam PVP sword shield with out shield ulti.
I made a post above still trying to make this meta work...

Autolycus

Half of my core dps came to me after testing their rotations on the PTS. None of them can even sustain long enough to complete a non-robust training dummy with these changes. We're considering how heavy attack builds may become the new go-to, with off-balance and Exploiter going the way of the Dodo. Of course there's plenty of time to learn more, and for adjustments to be made.

My point here is not necessarily that sustain just sucks now (even though it does). My point is that every 6mos-1year ZOS comes in and guts pve b/c they don't know how to properly balance in pvp. They did that week-long non-CP event a short while ago... not a single one of the avid pvpers I know fought the concept. Every single one of them supported it and said it would not only fix most of the problems, but would be for the best. Instead, ZOS decided to destroy sustain in almost every facet of its existence in ESO. This is a reoccurring problem. Every time ZOS wants to "rebalance," they destroy some integral part of pve combat mechanics and force us to re-learn how to play.

Make fights mechanic-based instead of dps-based, and then maybe we'll have a reason to go less dps and more sustain; maybe then we'll have a reason to put points into CP that reduce cost of dodge roll and break free, or whatever other currently-pointless CP stars there are that nobody bothers to get. There's no reason to get them if the fights are all about how hard you can hit, not about how you can be ready to do X every time Y happens. Every mechanic in the game right now is basic: Move here at this time, then dps. Even the most mechanic-intensive fights on Live currently are merely a matter of practice, then all-out dps, with the intent to skip mechanics and entire segments of the fight through pure dps. If it goes to live right now, players who haven't completed existing trials are going to have a tremendously more difficult time doing so post-Morrowind. I suspect the fights in HoF will last 20 minutes or more, but ofc it's purely speculation and NDA-friendly.

We will get over the sustain problems; we always overcome ZOS's changes. I just wish ZOS would learn how to do regular rebalancing and maintenance instead of this "wait six months then change everything" approach. It's aggravating, ZOS. You should be rebalancing every few weeks, not changing how we play entirely every other update.

Mojmir

For the record,I went 2 cost reduction and one recovery,poor results.

Uriel_Nocturne

Artis wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Zarrakon wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

I'm having trouble completing DELVES with the reduction in CP resource management and the nerf to the resource return for Light Armor. The Mobs were a hassle, but I found I could wipe them out at about the same time my Magicka ran out fully. The Delve Boss? I had to fully run out of it's aggro area to the point that the tether kicked in and reset the Boss back to its spawn point... even using Potions I crafted myself (which are infinitely more potent than the ones the game gives you), I couldn't regen Magicka fast enough to take out a Delve Boss. Even in a group, the only reason we beat the Boss is due to combined DPS, and even then, our resources were completely depleted.

Sorry, but there is something seriously wrong that has nothing to do with CPs if you cannot complete a delve because you're running out of resources. Like, if you literally went in and ONLY cast puncturing sweeps on everything you saw, you should be able to clear a delve without any CP at all (wearing level-appropriate gear).

Name me a player who only uses one Skill in their arsenal.

Just one.

There's no way to keep any or enough resources to tackle the content. And if I do as you say; use no other Skill except for Puncturing Sweeps, so that my Magicka doesn't deplete in less than 15 seconds, that doesn't make what the Update has done to the game any better.

That's saying: "We nerfed your resource management tools so drastically, that the only way you can make it through content is to literally spam one skill (and still hope your Magicka/Stamina don't run out).

I even weaved in Light and Heavy attacks, but the update nerfs the return from those attacks so much, that you only get back slightly less than a third of what you spend to activate a Skill.

This update is horrifically punishing any type of Skill use, by making your resources deplete at an ungodly rate, while making your resource return next to nothing.

1)That is irrelevant. 2) & 3)Bosses in delves die to a few skills, they don't even survive enough to complete one rotation. 4)We plain don't believe you.

1) It's actually not irrelevant at all. It's what you suggested.

2) Aaaaaand what gear set-up are you using? Aside from hyperbole, you're providing nothing to counter my direct experience with the changes currently on the PTS...

3) Are you using only Crafted gear that 98% of the population only has access to play with? Or are you using BiS Trial/Arena Monster Set drops? Because the "Elite-end-game-level" players are going to have far more and better means to mitigate the changes than the vast majority of the Casual Player base will have; and those "elite-end-game-level" players total only around 2% of the total player base across all three platforms.

4) Who is this "We" you mention? Have you read the other replies in this thread and on the rest of the PTS Forums? I ask because just a simple, quick read-through of the majority of the threads shows that the vast majority of players share MY experience with this new update.

If you're going to spout off without even bothering to test the changes, then you can be completely disregarded in like turn. Just let me know if you're actually going to get into the PTS and test some of this. And I mean, actually test the changes.

No "end-game-level-Monster-uber-gear" either. These changes are easily negated by the absolute highest level end-game gear. But again; the VAST majority of players won't ever have access to that gear.

Give these changes a true test, a REAL test.

But I think, for the sake of your own ego, you won't be able to do it. Or at least, you won't be able to do it and come on here and tell the truth about it.

argouru

So improve pvp and tough you-know-what for pve-ers? This is going to kill the game for a lot of players. I might take a 3 month break until the next update to see if it gets any better, assuming they leave things as they are now. I'm okay with SOME nerfing, but this is flat-out crippling.

Artis

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Zarrakon wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

I'm having trouble completing DELVES with the reduction in CP resource management and the nerf to the resource return for Light Armor. The Mobs were a hassle, but I found I could wipe them out at about the same time my Magicka ran out fully. The Delve Boss? I had to fully run out of it's aggro area to the point that the tether kicked in and reset the Boss back to its spawn point... even using Potions I crafted myself (which are infinitely more potent than the ones the game gives you), I couldn't regen Magicka fast enough to take out a Delve Boss. Even in a group, the only reason we beat the Boss is due to combined DPS, and even then, our resources were completely depleted.

Sorry, but there is something seriously wrong that has nothing to do with CPs if you cannot complete a delve because you're running out of resources. Like, if you literally went in and ONLY cast puncturing sweeps on everything you saw, you should be able to clear a delve without any CP at all (wearing level-appropriate gear).

Name me a player who only uses one Skill in their arsenal.

Just one.

There's no way to keep any or enough resources to tackle the content. And if I do as you say; use no other Skill except for Puncturing Sweeps, so that my Magicka doesn't deplete in less than 15 seconds, that doesn't make what the Update has done to the game any better.

That's saying: "We nerfed your resource management tools so drastically, that the only way you can make it through content is to literally spam one skill (and still hope your Magicka/Stamina don't run out).

I even weaved in Light and Heavy attacks, but the update nerfs the return from those attacks so much, that you only get back slightly less than a third of what you spend to activate a Skill.

This update is horrifically punishing any type of Skill use, by making your resources deplete at an ungodly rate, while making your resource return next to nothing.

1)That is irrelevant. 2) & 3)Bosses in delves die to a few skills, they don't even survive enough to complete one rotation. 4)We plain don't believe you.

1) It's actually not irrelevant at all. It's what you suggested.

2) Aaaaaand what gear set-up are you using? Aside from hyperbole, you're providing nothing to counter my direct experience with the changes currently on the PTS...

3) Are you using only Crafted gear that 98% of the population only has access to play with? Or are you using BiS Trial/Arena Monster Set drops? Because the "Elite-end-game-level" players are going to have far more and better means to mitigate the changes than the vast majority of the Casual Player base will have; and those "elite-end-game-level" players total only around 2% of the total player base across all three platforms.

4) Who is this "We" you mention? Have you read the other replies in this thread and on the rest of the PTS Forums? I ask because just a simple, quick read-through of the majority of the threads shows that the vast majority of players share MY experience with this new update.

If you're going to spout off without even bothering to test the changes, then you can be completely disregarded in like turn. Just let me know if you're actually going to get into the PTS and test some of this. And I mean, actually test the changes.

No "end-game-level-Monster-uber-gear" either. These changes are easily negated by the absolute highest level end-game gear. But again; the VAST majority of players won't ever have access to that gear.

Give these changes a true test, a REAL test.

But I think, for the sake of your own ego, you won't be able to do it. Or at least, you won't be able to do it and come on here and tell the truth about it.

1. Yes, this is completely irrelevant."Name 1 player who uses 1 skill"? PFfff. I'm using half a skill for delves, not even 1.
2. With ANY gear setup I used starting from crafted julianos or TBS and finishing with BSW - I had no troubles with delve bosses ever. Not using food buff and not using potions => playing without major sorcery buff. Haven't had to use anything for pledges ever. Just whichever gear I'm wearing atm, no consumables. Oh, also I used my alts for undaunted dailies and for events. My low level alts in random gear (not even matched to level sometimes) kill delve bosses in seconds.
3. This is irrelevant, too. The difference between those sets is only seen in long fights. The relative difference is within 5%, maybe 10%. That's not seen in shorter fights including even dungeons. Delves? Bosses in delves die in a few seconds.
4. I and at least 2 more people who called you out. You're either lying or exaggerating. Or your templar is not a DPS.

Uriel_Nocturne

Artis wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Zarrakon wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

I'm having trouble completing DELVES with the reduction in CP resource management and the nerf to the resource return for Light Armor. The Mobs were a hassle, but I found I could wipe them out at about the same time my Magicka ran out fully. The Delve Boss? I had to fully run out of it's aggro area to the point that the tether kicked in and reset the Boss back to its spawn point... even using Potions I crafted myself (which are infinitely more potent than the ones the game gives you), I couldn't regen Magicka fast enough to take out a Delve Boss. Even in a group, the only reason we beat the Boss is due to combined DPS, and even then, our resources were completely depleted.

Sorry, but there is something seriously wrong that has nothing to do with CPs if you cannot complete a delve because you're running out of resources. Like, if you literally went in and ONLY cast puncturing sweeps on everything you saw, you should be able to clear a delve without any CP at all (wearing level-appropriate gear).

Name me a player who only uses one Skill in their arsenal.

Just one.

There's no way to keep any or enough resources to tackle the content. And if I do as you say; use no other Skill except for Puncturing Sweeps, so that my Magicka doesn't deplete in less than 15 seconds, that doesn't make what the Update has done to the game any better.

That's saying: "We nerfed your resource management tools so drastically, that the only way you can make it through content is to literally spam one skill (and still hope your Magicka/Stamina don't run out).

I even weaved in Light and Heavy attacks, but the update nerfs the return from those attacks so much, that you only get back slightly less than a third of what you spend to activate a Skill.

This update is horrifically punishing any type of Skill use, by making your resources deplete at an ungodly rate, while making your resource return next to nothing.

1)That is irrelevant. 2) & 3)Bosses in delves die to a few skills, they don't even survive enough to complete one rotation. 4)We plain don't believe you.

1) It's actually not irrelevant at all. It's what you suggested.

2) Aaaaaand what gear set-up are you using? Aside from hyperbole, you're providing nothing to counter my direct experience with the changes currently on the PTS...

3) Are you using only Crafted gear that 98% of the population only has access to play with? Or are you using BiS Trial/Arena Monster Set drops? Because the "Elite-end-game-level" players are going to have far more and better means to mitigate the changes than the vast majority of the Casual Player base will have; and those "elite-end-game-level" players total only around 2% of the total player base across all three platforms.

4) Who is this "We" you mention? Have you read the other replies in this thread and on the rest of the PTS Forums? I ask because just a simple, quick read-through of the majority of the threads shows that the vast majority of players share MY experience with this new update.

If you're going to spout off without even bothering to test the changes, then you can be completely disregarded in like turn. Just let me know if you're actually going to get into the PTS and test some of this. And I mean, actually test the changes.

No "end-game-level-Monster-uber-gear" either. These changes are easily negated by the absolute highest level end-game gear. But again; the VAST majority of players won't ever have access to that gear.

Give these changes a true test, a REAL test.

But I think, for the sake of your own ego, you won't be able to do it. Or at least, you won't be able to do it and come on here and tell the truth about it.

1. Yes, this is completely irrelevant."Name 1 player who uses 1 skill"? PFfff. I'm using half a skill for delves, not even 1.
2. With ANY gear setup I used starting from crafted julianos or TBS and finishing with BSW - I had no troubles with delve bosses ever. Not using food buff and not using potions => playing without major sorcery buff. Haven't had to use anything for pledges ever. Just whichever gear I'm wearing atm, no consumables. Oh, also I used my alts for undaunted dailies and for events. My low level alts in random gear (not even matched to level sometimes) kill delve bosses in seconds.
3. This is irrelevant, too. The difference between those sets is only seen in long fights. The relative difference is within 5%, maybe 10%. That's not seen in shorter fights including even dungeons. Delves? Bosses in delves die in a few seconds.
4. I and at least 2 more people who called you out. You're either lying or exaggerating. Or your templar is not a DPS.

And were you using unicorn kisses as your "half a skill" as well?

You're flat out lying now. I will not engage someone who cannot even have the decency to discourse seriously.

Have a great day.

fericirea

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Delves are too hard (paraphrasing)

I'm going to regret jumping into this, but to be fair, delve content is extremely easy. Analytically speaking, a typical delve boss has ~140k health. With 7k DPS (which is about the same as alternating between light attacking and using some damaging skill), you can down a delve boss in about 20s solo.

Of course everyone inserts a skill now and then. Delves are also easily soloable from early levels onward. If you are having problems completing delves in a group, I don't think the lowest hanging fruit in terms of addressing what is preventing you from succeeding lies in any of these changes.

Joy_Division

I'm not interested in what parses I get on a target skeleton.

Quite frankly, I don;t care if my DPS higher in the Morrowind patch than it is now.

What I do care about is interesting gameplay and class distinctiveness. Both are getting the soul sucked out of them simply because ZoS is instead just giving everyone free generic power in the CP system.

I'm not sure why ZoS thinks slotting 2 cost reduction glyphs instead of 2 spell damage glyphs makes for more interesting gameplay, but I do not share that perceptive. Especially when I can no longer even control what resource to give to my tank.

Tholian1

fericirea wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Delves are too hard (paraphrasing)

I'm going to regret jumping into this, but to be fair, delve content is extremely easy. Analytically speaking, a typical delve boss has ~140k health. With 7k DPS (which is about 1-2k more than simply light attacking over and over again), you can down a delve boss in about 20s solo.

Of course everyone inserts a skill now and then. Delves are also easily soloable from early levels onward. If you are having problems completing delves in a group, I don't think the lowest hanging fruit in terms of addressing what is preventing you from succeeding lies in any of these changes.

Which is what had me worried. I can tear up a delve boss just spamming surprise attack and usually without taking a hit if I am fast enough. I don't mind delves being more challenging solo, but if a group is struggling in a delve, then something is not right.

I wish I had access to the PTS on my console.

Flattedfifth

fericirea wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Delves are too hard (paraphrasing)

I'm going to regret jumping into this, but to be fair, delve content is extremely easy. Analytically speaking, a typical delve boss has ~140k health. With 7k DPS (which is about the same as alternating between light attacking and using some damaging skill), you can down a delve boss in about 20s solo.

Of course everyone inserts a skill now and then. Delves are also easily soloable from early levels onward. If you are having problems completing delves in a group, I don't think the lowest hanging fruit in terms of addressing what is preventing you from succeeding lies in any of these changes.

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

DragonBound

Flattedfifth wrote: »

fericirea wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Delves are too hard (paraphrasing)

I'm going to regret jumping into this, but to be fair, delve content is extremely easy. Analytically speaking, a typical delve boss has ~140k health. With 7k DPS (which is about the same as alternating between light attacking and using some damaging skill), you can down a delve boss in about 20s solo.

Of course everyone inserts a skill now and then. Delves are also easily soloable from early levels onward. If you are having problems completing delves in a group, I don't think the lowest hanging fruit in terms of addressing what is preventing you from succeeding lies in any of these changes.

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

If they want delve content to be more challenging then instead they should likely increase the difficulty in the open world and delves in general.

Flattedfifth

This reminds me of this thread back when the Wrothgar PTS first came out: Some max level dude couldn't kill some quest boss (So he says, to this day I think he just wanted to faceroll the content and he was trying to start fake drama "You are gonna loose customers blah blah")... Literally the thread was filled with people going, "Umm, I can't bar swap yet and I was able to kill that boss"

One of the few laughs around here. I wish I could find it!

gard

fericirea wrote: »

I hope we can get a constructive and scientific (if anecdotal) discussion for those who actually logged into PTS and tested on target dummies. This is a thread of "what I tried, problems with sustain/dps I encountered, my attempted solutions, and what worked."

If you haven't played 3.0.0 on PTS, feel free to read this thread for info but please refrain from posting.

Obviously, keep NDA content out of this thread. This includes new quests, new items, new zones, new houses, and anything about the Warden class. We can talk about CP, existing gear combinations, and skills for existing classes.

I'll start. I spent about an hour on PTS with my Stam Sorc wacking on target dummies last night. I run 5pc NMG, 5pc Spriggan, and 2pc Veli. I took off all CP and added 50 into Mooncalf. Findings:

• I ran OOS in about 51s without Mooncalf and 67s with Mooncalf with my current live rotation weaving light attacks.
• When I wove heavy attacks, I managed similar DPS while sustaining very well.

A guildie of mine went onto PTS and tested all the existing Mag classes, and here's his contribution:

@everyone .. I did some.. testing.. on the PTS "Involving slavery of fellow guildies in another guild for about an hour" and have tried MULTIPLE times across classes.. and your biggest issue is pairing sustain and damage together. Without sustain, you dont have damage, simple as that. So, from best to worst, here are your options (For mag sustain) Magblade-Templar-DK-Sorc..... This may or may not change based on current PTS flip flopping their decisions.

As a magblade with ele drain (All tests had ele drain) I had no sustain issues. Siphoning attacks is a wonderful tool, and it means you dont have to run witchmothers brew. temp has rune, DK- ulti's, and lastly sorc.. My poor baby is no longer near as viable.. If you use dark conversion, then you are screwing yourself out of stam.. no stam= orbs return stam meaning you can use it MAYBE one more time, but then you're SOL.. with this newfound knowledge, reroll a magblade.. (This was all done with the current meta gear- BSW, Grothdar/Illambris, MD, vMA inferno)

In theory, magblades will be the best sustained DPS next patch, while sorcs will be at the top with burst

I couldn't follow up with him (he went to bed) with details regarding how much he wove in heavy attacks or if he tried combinations like removing a monster set and doing 5pc seducer and 5pc BSW, so it'd be great if other people in the community tested hypotheses like these.

I hope we as a community can find the sweet spot of "sustained highest DPS" for various builds by changing up rotations and builds. Keep in mind we're in PTS1, and the ease/difficulty of this exercise will also inform the evolution of PTS2+ for Morrowind.

EDIT1:
Someone asked for parse screenshots. I can't sustain over a minute when weaving light attacks on PTS, so here it is on live, which pretty much is infinite sustain for me. This is no pots, no help (so no major fracture, etc.), and no skill bar optimizations (Evil Hunter, etc.). It's just a baseline for comparing light attack weaving and heavy attack weaving, with the latter sustaining on PTS.

• Light attack weaving
• Heavy attack weaving

The takeaway is that heavy attack weaving is sustainable for DW for two main reasons. 1) It halves the usage of Flurry per unit time, and 2) it returns resources.

How is it that your ultimate shows roughly the same uptime (number of hits) on both parses when you aren't generating ultimate with no light attacks? That suggests that you aren't using it when it comes off cooldown in the light attack parse.

Isn't the point of light attacking to build up ultimate quickly, thus enabling ultimate use more frequently?

DHale

Durham wrote: »

I have been testing stam DK PVP. Wow what a difference it's bad you pretty much have to run the OP shield ulti .... The nerfs were stacked on this meta pretty hard....

-PVP blocking cost is just crazy up 50%
-50% increase cost in vigor when add in champ point change
-42% decrease in stam and magicka from armor.. keep in mind shields is extremely expensive..
-60% stam return is gone from class passive
-20% increase in stam abilities when factor champ changes
-25 decrease in healing

When you put all this together it's not good...

You forgot -100% decrease to motivation to play the game.

fericirea

gard wrote: »

How is it that your ultimate shows roughly the same uptime (number of hits) on both parses when you aren't generating ultimate with no light attacks? That suggests that you aren't using it when it comes off cooldown in the light attack parse.

I don't know. It's a good question. I was using ult more or less as soon as it was available. Combat metrics is wonky sometimes. For example, on the heavy weave parse, it doesn't even show I had Crit Surge up ever.

EDIT: I misread your question. I was still weaving light attacks on my back bar via bow. Ult generation is 3 ult/s for 8s after each light attack, and I was returning to my back bar roughly every 8s.

smacx250

fericirea wrote: »

gard wrote: »

How is it that your ultimate shows roughly the same uptime (number of hits) on both parses when you aren't generating ultimate with no light attacks? That suggests that you aren't using it when it comes off cooldown in the light attack parse.

I don't know. It's a good question. I was using ult more or less as soon as it was available. Combat metrics is wonky sometimes. For example, on the heavy weave parse, it doesn't even show I had Crit Surge up ever.

EDIT: I misread your question. I was still weaving light attacks on my back bar via bow. Ult generation is 3 ult/s for 8s after each light attack, and I was returning to my back bar roughly every 8s.

Ult is generated on heavy attacks as well - light attacks aren't needed.

santos.vellab16_ESO

Mojmir wrote: »

santos.vellab16_ESO wrote: »

Ok, the flow of disinformation needs to stop.
On the PTS I can still easily solo any public delve/non-DLC group dungeon on my (purposedly) terrible 2H-only Stamplar Master Crafter/gatherer build that is geared for max sprinting speed of all things. I don't even have Caltrops or Vigor. And this isn't a brag whatsoever, I have like 3 APM.

you can do this naked with no cp's at any level,now go try something actually challenging.

I think you misunderstood me: I was specifically disagreeing with Uriel_Nocturne's post who seemed to imply that the nerfs were so drastic that something previously as easy as Public and non-vet group Dungeon was now challenging/bordering on impossible.

Idinuse

Artis wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Zarrakon wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

I'm having trouble completing DELVES with the reduction in CP resource management and the nerf to the resource return for Light Armor. The Mobs were a hassle, but I found I could wipe them out at about the same time my Magicka ran out fully. The Delve Boss? I had to fully run out of it's aggro area to the point that the tether kicked in and reset the Boss back to its spawn point... even using Potions I crafted myself (which are infinitely more potent than the ones the game gives you), I couldn't regen Magicka fast enough to take out a Delve Boss. Even in a group, the only reason we beat the Boss is due to combined DPS, and even then, our resources were completely depleted.

Sorry, but there is something seriously wrong that has nothing to do with CPs if you cannot complete a delve because you're running out of resources. Like, if you literally went in and ONLY cast puncturing sweeps on everything you saw, you should be able to clear a delve without any CP at all (wearing level-appropriate gear).

Name me a player who only uses one Skill in their arsenal.

Just one.

There's no way to keep any or enough resources to tackle the content. And if I do as you say; use no other Skill except for Puncturing Sweeps, so that my Magicka doesn't deplete in less than 15 seconds, that doesn't make what the Update has done to the game any better.

That's saying: "We nerfed your resource management tools so drastically, that the only way you can make it through content is to literally spam one skill (and still hope your Magicka/Stamina don't run out).

I even weaved in Light and Heavy attacks, but the update nerfs the return from those attacks so much, that you only get back slightly less than a third of what you spend to activate a Skill.

This update is horrifically punishing any type of Skill use, by making your resources deplete at an ungodly rate, while making your resource return next to nothing.

That is irrelevant. Bosses in delves die to a few skills, they don't even survive enough to complete one rotation. We plain don't believe you.

I get the impression that some are reporting results on a template build (no race passives, not "right gear" i.e.) and others are reporting their ported Live main characters results? Just a thought.

DarcyMardin

Thanks for all the information! For average players like my husband and me (in the game since closed beta, but a bit older, with slower reflexes), the coming changes sure don't sound like fun. We've been playing MMOs since they were invented, and being so out of resources that you can't make the most of your skills is always tedious. In my case, I main a Templar, and the prospect of losing so many group support resources is downright depressing.

Brutusmax1mus

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

*** I am not in the Closed Beta, this is just testing based off of the Base Game Changes coming with the 3.0 Update ***

Resource management is going to be a very huge issue.

I Main a Magicka Templar DPS (Dunmer). I retooled all his gear with a specific mind to maximize Resource regen (5x Seducer [including Destro Flame Staff], 3x Magnus's Gift, and 3x Destruction Mastery [jewelry])(for armor I went with all Light).

With this set-up, I sacrificed a lot in DPS in favor of maximizing resource return; but I figured "what the hell, it may take me a bit longer, but if this resource gear works well, I can handle an increase in TTK, because I'll have the Magicka to back up a longer fight".

I am still rampantly running out of Magicka, and it takes me 30 seconds or longer to replenish a fully spent Magicka pool...

I'm having trouble completing DELVES with the reduction in CP resource management and the nerf to the resource return for Light Armor. The Mobs were a hassle, but I found I could wipe them out at about the same time my Magicka ran out fully. The Delve Boss? I had to fully run out of it's aggro area to the point that the tether kicked in and reset the Boss back to its spawn point... even using Potions I crafted myself (which are infinitely more potent than the ones the game gives you), I couldn't regen Magicka fast enough to take out a Delve Boss. Even in a group, the only reason we beat the Boss is due to combined DPS, and even then, our resources were completely depleted.

I was not able to complete a Public Dungeon. Period.

I couldn't get through the tougher, higher number Mobs at all, and mitigation through Potions helped in the same manner as for the Delves (as in; so little that it was like I didn't use a potion at all).

So our little group then tried a World Boss. That was a *** joke. On us. And we were the punchline.

Talking to the guys in our group of four, our Stamina characters were depleting their Stamina pools just as fast (our StamDK Sword & Board had it worse off than the rest of us) as the Magicka Characters were. Not even our Sorc was able to keep his Magicka pool at a decent flow rate.

Every one was running out of resources fast enough that we couldn't complete the base content.

We briefly discussed trying one of the 4-man Group Dungeons, but quickly decided that was simply out of the question with how our performance in the above content acted out.

If these changes to resource sustain/cost reduction remain "as is", I have no idea how players (even the "elite" end-game players) are going to complete ANY of the Trials.

Stack that Resource sustain/cost reduction with the changes to how the Class Skills and abilities act, and I can easily see Trials and Group Dungeons would be simply unplayable.

This Update 3.0 is going to be a cancer, and actually being able to play a Class (any class really...) is going to be a monumental increase in difficulty.

This coming update is abhorrent, and my wife and I signed out of the PTS in disgust. All we could do was shake our heads at how bad of an experience it was.

I quoted myself to add in this additional thought:

I am not an "Elite-end-game-player". I am, if anything, a slightly above average Casual player.

I use only Crafted Sets, as I cannot (due to circumstance and time constraints) grind the Trials and Group Dungeons for Monster Drop Sets. I have not done the Dragonstar Arena, Maelstrom Arena, or (again) any of the Trials and Group dungeons.

My play time and real life limit me to a couple of hours per night, and I am only ever really able to run Delves, Public Dungeons, and do the Daily Mages Guild/Fighters Guild/Dark Brotherhood quests.

I have discovered every crafting location in the game, and thus I have a decent working knowledge of the Crafted Sets, and how they interact in the game world for Overland and Base Game content. My friends that I group with on those rare occasions that we can Group, are in the same position that I am.

While mitigating or finding a "work around" for the Resource sustain/cost reduction nerfs might be a relatively easy thing for those aforementioned "elite end game content players" only around 1-2% of the game population has conquered that same end-game content.

The other 98%-99% of the game, are in the same situation as my friends an I are.

If the resource management changes are hitting us (again; slightly above average players) as hard as they are, where even Delves are an issue and tougher content is simply impossible to complete due to resource constraints; imagine how hard these changes are going to hit the "average" and "below average" players.

For them, even overland Mobs might be a very serious issue and very difficult to complete if these changes stay "as is".

While those elite players may actually have some great advice for lower ability players, those casual players aren't going to seek them out. They'll see that they can't do anything with their characters after this patch drops, and what do you think those Casual players will do at that point?

While it might be very easy for those Elite players to sift through multiple combinations of Sets to find the right balance between DPS and sustain in order to keep their resources high; casual players don't have that luxury, and due to their own constraints, likely never will have that option.

This is not going to be a good change to the game. None of 3.0 is going to be good for the game.

Again; while this might seem like an absurdly easy fix for the Elite end-game content players, the rest of the game populace is going to suffer greatly with this update.

I love ESO. It's one of the better MMO's I've played over the last 20+ years. But this upcoming patch is one of the worst I've ever seen in the entire MMORPG genre.

And that's the view and experience from the "other 98%" after playing it for a couple days on this PTS.

No offense, but could you fill in your gear cp? It sounds like you had no cp and were naked. It can't be that bad... You may be a bit generous on your capabilities of you're having this much of a problem.

smacx250

smacx250 wrote: »

I'm a pretty average player. I took my solo-focused mag sorc on PTS, reworked the CP to cap (so 30 more than live), but didn't change any gear or skills. I've got 5 magnus and one regen jewels enchant for some regen (other is 4 elegance & 2 willpower w/spell damage). After reworking CP my regen was pretty close to the same, but overall loss of cost reduction resulted in skills being about 1/3 more expensive! The CP changes seem to have actually upped damage a bit as with the front loading I could invest into more areas for overall better effect (e.g., got exploiter). Overland mobs, delves, and public dungeons were probably a little easier due to the increased damage. My build is mostly lightning AoE focused (WoE, LL, lighting heavies), and AoEing down trash seemed quicker than on live. Sustain on single target was down quite a bit, but still ok for the public dungeon bosses. I haven't tried soloing normal dungeon or world bosses on PTS. I expect it to be more challenging, as even with about the same regen it may be problematic keeping shields and heals going with the 1/3 cost increase, even with mostly heavy attacks. I may need to re-skill/equip for more mag return. I haven't tried PvP on PTS.

Just went solo through normal Banished Cells on the PTS, and while the boss fights seemed to take a little longer it was still quite manageable. It did take a bit more care to preserve enough mag to keep a shield and power surge up. I think this was one of the less difficult ones to solo, so it might not be representative of those where taking longer may be more punishing (like Selene's).

yttoks

Just hit the PTS. I made some quick changes to CP's, same gear, same rotations, and that doesn't work at all. I'm not sure there will be a way to get anywhere close to where I was at by changing gear, etc. Getting sustain to a place that allows a longer fight ( > 1 min) without running out of stam may be doable (and I question that), but not without a heavy hit to dps. Stamplar here. So, yet again, a nerf that I did not really need.

Quick summary: quests still a sleepwalk. Didn't do a delve, but I suspect also a sleepwalk. No WB. Went straight to FG1. Normal mode was not a sleepwalk, but easy enough through the first boss that i didn't continue. Think normal mode can still be soloed if you remain conscious through it.

Vet mode is not going to be soloable anymore for this boy. Running out of stam on the first trash mob, a death on the second trash mob (!). So, I really woke up for the first boss. Got him down, maybe the last third of the fight with no stam. Did not continue, but I think it's safe to say that I'd be able to get through the second boss with some concentration and probably a few deaths, but I don't think the dreugh boss can be killed with the current setup.

Didn't try it, but I'm sure I won't be able to put out enough dps to put down either of the trash mobs before they kill me. I didn't see any mention of health recovery issues, but I was definitely having to watch my health bar very closely. On this content, I never really look at it and typically never get a low health warning.

Also tried vMA a bit. 1 death on the first arena. Sustain an issue, but not too difficult. Got the first boss down. But, I've run vMA many times, and the first arena is really just a warm up. I'm sure I could do it without a death with the changes if I focused a bit more, but this was a sleeper round before. Didn't move on to the next arenas. I've done vMA enough to judge the difficulty level from what I'm seeing on the first arena.

If you've been putting off vMA but intended to get around to it later, you might want to shoot for a complete before June. It's going to be a lot more difficult after the update as it stands, and we all know how much fun that first complete can be.

So, this quick run on the PTS server makes it clear that I will have to make some major changes, and that will require some time to figure out. Another gear grind to get legendary gear, as I'm sure my current stuff is not going to be the answer. At this point, I'm not at all excited about this major update. I think the idea is that I would be.

Instead, I'm considering whether I really want to go through all that. I would be considering that if continuing were free, which it's not. I don't think these changes will make the game fresh and exciting again. We'll see how this shapes up in the next month or so, and I guess I'll decide what to do when the time comes.

Thannazzar

I had a similar experience on my StamSorc. Running Veli 2pc, Automaton 5pc and VO 5pc.

58 seconds without requiring stam potion for aoe and 72 seconds for single target.

Moved my CPS from warlord to moon calf and new heavy attacking and direct damage CP options and my DPS was on par with previous patch numbers.

When grouped with party running shards and Hircines Vaneer had no sustain issues at all.