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How to get 100% crit chance on any class in PvP. (Vengeance CP passive needs an internal cooldown.)

  • Minalan
    Minalan
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    How about we fix jabs, dots, and force pulse to count as one spell with regards to triggering this passive?

    It also shouldn't apply to healing. They're already changing crit and healing behavior for next patch (supposedly) with precise strikes and elfborn.
  • usmcjdking
    usmcjdking
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    Minalan wrote: »
    How about we fix jabs, dots, and force pulse to count as one spell with regards to triggering this passive?

    It also shouldn't apply to healing. They're already changing crit and healing behavior for next patch (supposedly) with precise strikes and elfborn.

    That doesn't solve the problem of being able to bypass crit mechanics by simply holding RMB.
    0331
    0602
  • Kay1
    Kay1
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    I suggest we completely remove this class from the game.

    Never gonna happen tho :(
    Edited by Kay1 on April 2, 2017 1:51PM
    K1 The Big Monkey
  • Ragnaroek93
    Ragnaroek93
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    Shhhhhhh. Don't spread out my secret, I'm in fear that my awesome permablock harness magicka froststaff build gets nerfed now :(
    I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.
  • LeifErickson
    LeifErickson
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    usmcjdking wrote: »
    Magus wrote: »
    I want to say I am completely ambivalent to this. In order for it to actually benefit you in a meaningful way, you need to be fighting outnumbered and have a lot of incoming damage. So, sure, neuter fighting outnumbered even more, it's pretty par for the course cuz like you were gonna die anyway - paraphrasing Wrobel.

    Did you even watch the video? It only takes one person hitting you to achieve 100% crit across indefinite consecutive global cooldowns as long as you're blocking.

    I mean it's the same thing with shuffle. Shuffle in a 1v1 is obviously very strong, but nerfing it because it's op in 1v1s means it's no longer as good of a tool for fighting outnumbered. Shuffle is one of the few mechanics in this game that gets stronger the more outnumbered you fight.

    While yes this passive can proc in a 1v1, I don't really think that this passive needs to be nerfed for 1v1 scenarios. However, outnumbered this passive is fantastic and should we be nerfing things in this game that are stronger when outnumbered?

    This passive should not be nerfed for any sort of PVP gameplay purposes. 1v1 Xv1 or 1vX are inconsequential to what this passive actually does towards balance. You can flat out ignore an important build choice, one that is inherent to MA/LA to make them have more reliable critical at the cost of not having the defensive mechanisms of Heavy armor.

    This isn't directed at nerfing 1vX in the slightest. This is ensuring that build mechanics remain infallible instead of being completely bypassed by champion points, in this case, 30.

    Okay. Then based on what you said, immov pots should be removed from this game because they allow people to flat out ignore an important build choice as well.
  • NightbladeMechanics
    NightbladeMechanics
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    usmcjdking wrote: »
    Magus wrote: »
    I want to say I am completely ambivalent to this. In order for it to actually benefit you in a meaningful way, you need to be fighting outnumbered and have a lot of incoming damage. So, sure, neuter fighting outnumbered even more, it's pretty par for the course cuz like you were gonna die anyway - paraphrasing Wrobel.

    Did you even watch the video? It only takes one person hitting you to achieve 100% crit across indefinite consecutive global cooldowns as long as you're blocking.

    I mean it's the same thing with shuffle. Shuffle in a 1v1 is obviously very strong, but nerfing it because it's op in 1v1s means it's no longer as good of a tool for fighting outnumbered. Shuffle is one of the few mechanics in this game that gets stronger the more outnumbered you fight.

    While yes this passive can proc in a 1v1, I don't really think that this passive needs to be nerfed for 1v1 scenarios. However, outnumbered this passive is fantastic and should we be nerfing things in this game that are stronger when outnumbered?

    This passive should not be nerfed for any sort of PVP gameplay purposes. 1v1 Xv1 or 1vX are inconsequential to what this passive actually does towards balance. You can flat out ignore an important build choice, one that is inherent to MA/LA to make them have more reliable critical at the cost of not having the defensive mechanisms of Heavy armor.

    This isn't directed at nerfing 1vX in the slightest. This is ensuring that build mechanics remain infallible instead of being completely bypassed by champion points, in this case, 30.

    Okay. Then based on what you said, immov pots should be removed from this game because they allow people to flat out ignore an important build choice as well.

    Hey I agree with that.
    Kena
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  • Lore_lai
    Lore_lai
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    I think anything that "procs" or passively lets you do something should be removed from the game. :p
    *cough*shuffle*cough*
  • zyk
    zyk
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    Lore_lai wrote: »
    I think anything that "procs" or passively lets you do something should be removed from the game. :p
    *cough*shuffle*cough*

    I think there's room for passive procs in moderation. The problem in ESO is that there are far too many.

    'Far too many' applies to most things in this game. Diversity isn't inherently good. The point of diminishing returns is quickly reached and diversity makes the game more difficult to learn and balance.

    I don't know what ZOS designers are thinking. It's clear the target audience is casual, but no casual player will ever have a grasp of every system. Instead of simplifying, @Wrobel complicates the game further to try to make the game easier for these players by adding new functions. Adding Siphoner is an example of this, IMO. These waters are too muddy.

    I mean no offense to casual players. I have been a very very casual PVP player for the past year.

    Edited by zyk on April 2, 2017 10:15PM
  • Adernath
    Adernath
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    Interestingly, now I understand this outcry from some people as they removed the cp in Cyro for testing purposes :)
  • Minno
    Minno
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    usmcjdking wrote: »
    Magus wrote: »
    I want to say I am completely ambivalent to this. In order for it to actually benefit you in a meaningful way, you need to be fighting outnumbered and have a lot of incoming damage. So, sure, neuter fighting outnumbered even more, it's pretty par for the course cuz like you were gonna die anyway - paraphrasing Wrobel.

    Did you even watch the video? It only takes one person hitting you to achieve 100% crit across indefinite consecutive global cooldowns as long as you're blocking.

    I mean it's the same thing with shuffle. Shuffle in a 1v1 is obviously very strong, but nerfing it because it's op in 1v1s means it's no longer as good of a tool for fighting outnumbered. Shuffle is one of the few mechanics in this game that gets stronger the more outnumbered you fight.

    While yes this passive can proc in a 1v1, I don't really think that this passive needs to be nerfed for 1v1 scenarios. However, outnumbered this passive is fantastic and should we be nerfing things in this game that are stronger when outnumbered?

    This passive should not be nerfed for any sort of PVP gameplay purposes. 1v1 Xv1 or 1vX are inconsequential to what this passive actually does towards balance. You can flat out ignore an important build choice, one that is inherent to MA/LA to make them have more reliable critical at the cost of not having the defensive mechanisms of Heavy armor.

    This isn't directed at nerfing 1vX in the slightest. This is ensuring that build mechanics remain infallible instead of being completely bypassed by champion points, in this case, 30.

    Okay. Then based on what you said, immov pots should be removed from this game because they allow people to flat out ignore an important build choice as well.

    Hey I agree with that.

    Same. Though it would require a magicka immovable skill (since HA skill is stamina based.)
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • NightbladeMechanics
    NightbladeMechanics
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    Minno wrote: »
    usmcjdking wrote: »
    Magus wrote: »
    I want to say I am completely ambivalent to this. In order for it to actually benefit you in a meaningful way, you need to be fighting outnumbered and have a lot of incoming damage. So, sure, neuter fighting outnumbered even more, it's pretty par for the course cuz like you were gonna die anyway - paraphrasing Wrobel.

    Did you even watch the video? It only takes one person hitting you to achieve 100% crit across indefinite consecutive global cooldowns as long as you're blocking.

    I mean it's the same thing with shuffle. Shuffle in a 1v1 is obviously very strong, but nerfing it because it's op in 1v1s means it's no longer as good of a tool for fighting outnumbered. Shuffle is one of the few mechanics in this game that gets stronger the more outnumbered you fight.

    While yes this passive can proc in a 1v1, I don't really think that this passive needs to be nerfed for 1v1 scenarios. However, outnumbered this passive is fantastic and should we be nerfing things in this game that are stronger when outnumbered?

    This passive should not be nerfed for any sort of PVP gameplay purposes. 1v1 Xv1 or 1vX are inconsequential to what this passive actually does towards balance. You can flat out ignore an important build choice, one that is inherent to MA/LA to make them have more reliable critical at the cost of not having the defensive mechanisms of Heavy armor.

    This isn't directed at nerfing 1vX in the slightest. This is ensuring that build mechanics remain infallible instead of being completely bypassed by champion points, in this case, 30.

    Okay. Then based on what you said, immov pots should be removed from this game because they allow people to flat out ignore an important build choice as well.

    Hey I agree with that.

    Same. Though it would require a magicka immovable skill (since HA skill is stamina based.)

    Or they could rework the HA skill to be something different, and make it useful like Harness and Shuffle.
    Kena
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  • br0steen
    br0steen
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    Well this explains why I can heal so effectively on my magdk in PvP. I thought I was just super lucky a lot :trollface:
  • Joy_Division
    Joy_Division
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    One of those good intentioned CP stars that did not take into account many of ESO skills are not a single attack lightning heavys, jabs, crushing shock, etc).

    Hopefully ZoS will do something in the Morrowind update.
  • Izaki
    Izaki
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    Minno wrote: »
    HoloYoitsu wrote: »
    So....the outrage is that Vengeance has been doing exactly what the tooltip says it would for the last 2 years, and nobody ever read their CP passives?
    1mbtfm.jpg

    You can call it poor design, but am I missing something? And LOL @ people saying "mag builds have been exploiting this", yeah not like Unchained was completely OP for almost 2 years or something. :smirk:

    Because only us masochists keep rolling magicka in a stam meta. Raise your hand if you ever thought " hey maybe this magicka passive will make me better than Stam builds?!".

    Should be changed if it's granting 100% crit. Unchained shouldn't have taken that long to fix either. And that was worse since most of cyro were Stam builds during those two years using the office :).

    So much salt for stam builds when magicka builds are just better...
    @ Izaki #PCEU
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  • kadar
    kadar
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    Minno wrote: »
    HoloYoitsu wrote: »
    So....the outrage is that Vengeance has been doing exactly what the tooltip says it would for the last 2 years, and nobody ever read their CP passives?
    1mbtfm.jpg

    You can call it poor design, but am I missing something? And LOL @ people saying "mag builds have been exploiting this", yeah not like Unchained was completely OP for almost 2 years or something. :smirk:

    Because only us masochists keep rolling magicka in a stam meta. Raise your hand if you ever thought " hey maybe this magicka passive will make me better than Stam builds?!".

    Should be changed if it's granting 100% crit. Unchained shouldn't have taken that long to fix either. And that was worse since most of cyro were Stam builds during those two years using the office :).

    So much salt for stam builds when magicka builds are just better...

    I play Magicka, so of course Stamina is OP. I like to be the underdog regardless of reality. That way, when I win, it's cause I'm awesome and when I lose, it's cause Stamina is OP. >:)

    My gaming philosophy is convenient.
    Edited by kadar on April 4, 2017 4:38PM
  • Lore_lai
    Lore_lai
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    Minno wrote: »
    Because only us masochists keep rolling magicka in a stam meta. Raise your hand if you ever thought " hey maybe this magicka passive will make me better than Stam builds?!".
    I somehow missed this.
    @Minno c'mon - you know very well that mag is doing fine.
    Yeah there are some issues with the game per se, but those issues affect everyone who is not in a zerg, mag or stam.
    And there are imbalances with how certain classes synergise with certain builds, but that is true for both mag and stam.

    Not even gonna talk about PvE cos stam is screwed when it comes to that.
  • Minno
    Minno
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    Lore_lai wrote: »
    Minno wrote: »
    Because only us masochists keep rolling magicka in a stam meta. Raise your hand if you ever thought " hey maybe this magicka passive will make me better than Stam builds?!".
    I somehow missed this.
    @Minno c'mon - you know very well that mag is doing fine.
    Yeah there are some issues with the game per se, but those issues affect everyone who is not in a zerg, mag or stam.
    And there are imbalances with how certain classes synergise with certain builds, but that is true for both mag and stam.

    Not even gonna talk about PvE cos stam is screwed when it comes to that.

    After that comment I changed my build to start thinking in a "hybrid build" mentality. I agree with your comment, both have bonuses and weaknesses.

    But I'll stick with my argument that adding a cooldown to that passive wouldn't impact the intended purpose of adding dmg/healing burst for magicka. Just to combat the potential for abuse which the video clearly shows a clear creep in avoiding crit mechanics/builds.
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
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  • Merlin13KAGL
    Merlin13KAGL
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    WhiteMage wrote: »
    This effect seems to impact any spell, including ground-based AoEs on a per tick basis.
    Shouldn't be proc'ing at all on a an AoE, as an AoE should not be blockable in the first place.
    Minno wrote: »
    Agreed, give it a cool down and maybe only make it proc on direct attacks.
    Or simply require blocking of different skills and/or from different people. (Blocking jabs would only count as one of the three required, for instance. Second full jabs, either consecutive or from another person at same time would count as #2)

    Edited by Merlin13KAGL on April 4, 2017 5:51PM
    Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...

    Earn it.

    IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.
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  • NightbladeMechanics
    NightbladeMechanics
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    Inb4 zos' response to this thread is to make jabs unblockable. :trollface:

    WhiteMage wrote: »
    This effect seems to impact any spell, including ground-based AoEs on a per tick basis.
    Shouldn't be proc'ing at all on a an AoE, as an AoE should not be blockable in the first place.

    Game doesn't always work as it should.
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  • Animus-ESO
    Animus-ESO
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    Inb4 zos' response to this thread is to make jabs unblockable. :trollface:


    Yas please
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  • Dyride
    Dyride
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    Minalan wrote: »
    How about we fix jabs, dots, and force pulse to count as one spell with regards to triggering this passive?

    It also shouldn't apply to healing. They're already changing crit and healing behavior for next patch (supposedly) with precise strikes and elfborn.

    FYI there is an internal cooldown on block cost.
    V Є H Є M Є И C Є
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    1. NightbladeMechanics
      NightbladeMechanics
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      Dyride wrote: »
      Minalan wrote: »
      How about we fix jabs, dots, and force pulse to count as one spell with regards to triggering this passive?

      It also shouldn't apply to healing. They're already changing crit and healing behavior for next patch (supposedly) with precise strikes and elfborn.

      FYI there is an internal cooldown on block cost.

      Yes, but not on counting number of attacks blocked, on which this passive functions.
      Kena
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    2. Moglijuana
      Moglijuana
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      Wowww. This explains so much. Shoutout to all the BOL'ing spamming zerglings that say skill is what carries them XD
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