lock out vet dungeons under 160 cp

Reverb · March 2017

I've pugged with lots of very capable, low CP players. And I've been grouped with even more Max CP players who have no idea what they were doing. This game makes it stupid-easy to grind to max CP, use an Internet build, and access end game content without knowing anything about skills or mechanics.

If anything, I admire the lower CP guys for taking the time to play through the content, instead of just grinding. They have way better odds of being a good party member then someone who AOEd zombies for 12 straight hours

AhPook_Is_Here · March 2017

I think a better idea is to just to make the 1st level past 49, cp160.

Hand_Bacon · March 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

If you don't want to run get dungeons with sub CP 160 players form the group yourself. If you choose to use the GF then deal with what you get unless one wants to be an *** and kick players that don't meet your criteria cause it's to challenging when you don't have someone to carry you

That could go both ways. The problem of people not valuing other people's time as much as their own is not tied to CP or GF or Grind or whatever. The argument here is to cut a little of the problem off the top. There isn't much a low CP player can get from a vet dungeon that they can't get from a normal.

WalksonGraves · March 2017

OP is totally right, they designed the game to have a progression and making it available to everyone doesn't change that when the game was made 160 cp was the minimum for the "real" end game not level 50. Even wgt and mazz on regular is too hard for lowbies.

Danksta · March 2017

Hand_Bacon wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

If you don't want to run get dungeons with sub CP 160 players form the group yourself. If you choose to use the GF then deal with what you get unless one wants to be an *** and kick players that don't meet your criteria cause it's to challenging when you don't have someone to carry you

That could go both ways. The problem of people not valuing other people's time as much as their own is not tied to CP or GF or Grind or whatever. The argument here is to cut a little of the problem off the top. There isn't much a low CP player can get from a vet dungeon that they can't get from a normal.

... except experience in veteran dungeons.

idk · March 2017

Hand_Bacon wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

If you don't want to run get dungeons with sub CP 160 players form the group yourself. If you choose to use the GF then deal with what you get unless one wants to be an *** and kick players that don't meet your criteria cause it's to challenging when you don't have someone to carry you

That could go both ways. The problem of people not valuing other people's time as much as their own is not tied to CP or GF or Grind or whatever. The argument here is to cut a little of the problem off the top. There isn't much a low CP player can get from a vet dungeon that they can't get from a normal.

The argument of lower CP players getting just as much from normal as vet is really irrelevant.

What is relevant is when one chooses to use the GF they're asking for pot luck. Form ones own group for the dungeon instead.

Zos gave us the ability to form a group ourselves and have complete control. We are provided the GF for times when we are willing to give up some of that control for randomness in the group. That's what GF is about.

parkham · March 2017

My answer and my goal for this "problem" is to get to the point where I can solo any Veteran dungeon that can be - then it won't matter who you group with.

And if you have an ounce of patience, you might help the group learn the mechanics - hell you might even make a friend.

DatSergal · March 2017

The issue isn't about low CP, it experience. I've taken guild members that are lower then 160cp and completed vet dungeons no problem. As a higher and more experienced player I have gotten in PUG groups seen someone struggling and after the dungeon I'll invite them to a group or whisper them and ask if they would like some help. Most will take any help they can get, I'll go over a good starting point for a build to use for the moment what skills they should be using and go over rotation. I'll invite them to the guild I'm in for PVE if they want and continue to work with them. Locking content till your a certain level isn't the answer sadly

Hand_Bacon · March 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

The argument of lower CP players getting just as much from normal as vet is really irrelevant.

I can't agree, I believe its very relevant as it goes to in what the player is vested.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

What is relevant is when one chooses to use the GF they're asking for pot luck. Form ones own group for the dungeon instead.

To me, this is totally irrelevant.

My story. I've played mmo's for well over a decade and have picked up good friends along the way. However, I've played ESO since pre-release and have yet to meet anyone I'd consider a friend or at least a gaming buddy (all my long time gaming friends left ESO in the April after realease). Hell, right now, there is nobody in game, that I've met, that I look forward to chatting with or grouping with on a daily basis.

Now, all of my character slots are full of leveled and geared characters. I've experienced most of the content that there is in the game. I enjoy helping people who want to be helped. However, what you're telling me is that because I'm forced to use GF to find groups for pledges I should have to consistently be disappointed with group-mates? That I should do vet pledges for just one key? If I use the GF I should always be ready to carry the group?

I can't see that this is my burden.

Edit: With a certain CP expectation, I know that if I tell group-finder group mate A, B or C to slot a certain skill and use it a certain way I can have a reasonable expecation of dmg, mitigation, or healing.

WalksonGraves · March 2017

AhPook_Is_Here wrote: »

I think a better idea is to just to make the 1st level past 49, cp160.

This^

1-50: grind nude because gear will be replaced

50 - cp 160: longer grind & all gear drops are worthless because they are below the arbitrary cp cap.

160+ looongest grind against rng, time, forming relationships with guilds.

central_scrutinizer · March 2017

I think that I did a bunch of vets before v16 was a thing?

idk · March 2017

Hand_Bacon wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

The argument of lower CP players getting just as much from normal as vet is really irrelevant.

I can't agree, I believe its very relevant as it goes to in what the player is vested.

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

What is relevant is when one chooses to use the GF they're asking for pot luck. Form ones own group for the dungeon instead.

To me, this is totally irrelevant.

My story. I've played mmo's for well over a decade and have picked up good friends along the way. However, I've played ESO since pre-release and have yet to meet anyone I'd consider a friend or at least a gaming buddy (all my long time gaming friends left ESO in the April after realease). Hell, right now, there is nobody in game, that I've met, that I look forward to chatting with or grouping with on a daily basis.

Now, all of my character slots are full of leveled and geared characters. I've experienced most of the content that there is in the game. I enjoy helping people who want to be helped. However, what you're telling me is that because I'm forced to use GF to find groups for pledges I should have to consistently be disappointed with group-mates? That I should do vet pledges for just one key? If I use the GF I should always be ready to carry the group?

I can't see that this is my burden.

Edit: With a certain CP expectation, I know that if I tell group-finder group mate A, B or C to slot a certain skill and use it a certain way I can have a reasonable expecation of dmg, mitigation, or healing.

I've not told you your forced to do anything. I've actually said you have a choice.

You have a choice to form your own group which will permit you to choose your standards and you lose that right of enforcing your lofty standards if you choose to use GF.

Many form groups from zone. Popular locations are around the undaunted quest givers.

Be your own group finder. Fabulous solution. Fortunslfy Zos has more sense than to put into play the restrictions OP suggests.

Etaniel · March 2017

Put in an achievement requirement to unlock vet dungeons, as in get a speedrun from the normal version of the dungeon for example.

Hand_Bacon · March 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

I've not told you your forced to do anything. I've actually said you have a choice.

You have a choice to form your own group which will permit you to choose your standards and you lose that right of enforcing your lofty standards if you choose to use GF.

Many form groups from zone. Popular locations are around the undaunted quest givers.

Be your own group finder. Fabulous solution. Fortunslfy Zos has more sense than to put into play the restrictions OP suggests.

Lofty standards? How about a player having enough accountability to match the content they attempt? Of course there are groups forming in /zone all the time. But a person has to sit and wait in a zone for people who either meet criteria that they spam or they find another person advertising. GF allows you to do other things while it finds you a group.

Cpt_Teemo · March 2017

Astrid_V wrote: »

I was many times in vet dungeons with 300-400CP people who also had no idea what they were doing, so I'm not sure if it will fix the problem. But having all group members with at least 160CP would be better, cause all loot would be max level.

Yeah I've had plenty of low cp's asking for Cp 160 gear i'm like really.

Cpt_Teemo · March 2017

central_scrutinizer wrote: »

I think that I did a bunch of vets before v16 was a thing?

The gear cap was also aligned with the current Vet cap, when I quit in 1.0 about 3 months after launch it was still Vet 10 maxed.

Saturnana · March 2017

I'm past CP160 and I'm pretty sure you would not want to group up with me. Never done vet content before, and only ever saw one dungeon from the inside. That being said, I'm sure there are a lot of talented players who don't have CP160 but who would be able to do vet content. CP isn't everything.

Sibenice · March 2017

lnsane wrote: »

I'm past CP160 and I'm pretty sure you would not want to group up with me. Never done vet content before, and only ever saw one dungeon from the inside. That being said, I'm sure there are a lot of talented players who don't have CP160 but who would be able to do vet content. CP isn't everything.

You're right, CP isn't everything. But until you can find a way to test for skill before entering a random dungeon the only way to put in a barrier is through things like level and gear.

This isn't about how good or not people are. This is about a more reasonable barrier for entry based on the dps required to do vet dungeons. Since right now a lot of vet dungeons fail due to things like low dps or not enough healing. Both of which can be helped simply by having access to max level gear.

Cpt_Teemo · March 2017

Yeah like WoW's gear score requirement to que up for certain dungeons / raids

idk · March 2017

Etaniel wrote: »

Put in an achievement requirement to unlock vet dungeons, as in get a speedrun from the normal version of the dungeon for example.

Speed run achievement is only in vet.

Hand_Bacon wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

I've not told you your forced to do anything. I've actually said you have a choice.

You have a choice to form your own group which will permit you to choose your standards and you lose that right of enforcing your lofty standards if you choose to use GF.

Many form groups from zone. Popular locations are around the undaunted quest givers.

Be your own group finder. Fabulous solution. Fortunslfy Zos has more sense than to put into play the restrictions OP suggests.

Lofty standards? How about a player having enough accountability to match the content they attempt? Of course there are groups forming in /zone all the time. But a person has to sit and wait in a zone for people who either meet criteria that they spam or they find another person advertising. GF allows you to do other things while it finds you a group.

Incorrect. You do not have to wait for someone to invite you. You can form your own group. It's really not that hard. Well, as long as a our doing the pledges.

Hand_Bacon · March 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Incorrect. You do not have to wait for someone to invite you. You can form your own group. It's really not that hard. Well, as long as a our doing the pledges.

But a person has to sit and wait in a zone for people who either meet criteria that they spam or they find another person advertising.

There is the part about a person forming a group that you missed. Really not that hard.

As for off-peak hours, zone chat isn't exactly the liveliest spot. Guilds, maybe, hit or miss. But then again, that is all on me because I should be punished by using the group finder.

Woopy · March 2017

So, you want to exclude people from content they're allowed to do/learn so you can farm items?... Find some players and hold a static group.

I see what you're saying - but there's a flaw. You expect these guys to not learn vet dungeons at lower level and then start doing them at 160+, well what do you think happens when they're 160+ and still don't know the mechanics WHEN they're expected to at that point? They either get frustrated and drop or get vote kicked for not knowing what to do or how to do it - rendering your argument utterly useless.

Disagree entirely.

idk · March 2017

Hand_Bacon wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Incorrect. You do not have to wait for someone to invite you. You can form your own group. It's really not that hard. Well, as long as a our doing the pledges.

But a person has to sit and wait in a zone for people who either meet criteria that they spam or they find another person advertising.

There is the part about a person forming a group that you missed. Really not that hard.

As for off-peak hours, zone chat isn't exactly the liveliest spot. Guilds, maybe, hit or miss. But then again, that is all on me because I should be punished by using the group finder.

I've never had an issue forming or getting into a group during peak hours. Clearly the higher the standard one puts forth the longer it should take.

Obviously during off peak hours it's going to take longer.

First, you will never be able to set your own standard in GF. Second, anyone who thinks GF will work fast during off peak hours is fooling themselves.

Most dungeons I've done are with guild groups (there's your real answer) though I often do ransoms for the heck if it. Never found a group in a non-DLC dungeon that could not clear as long as I was a healer of damage dealer.

Anyone who thinks a minimum cap of CP 160 will help you get groups that can carry you through a vet dungeon is fooling themselves. CP level doesn't mean jack in showing skill.

SquareSausage · March 2017

All the people saying there are worse max level, just get a grip.

As has been mentioned there is no need for anyone to go into vet dungeons under CP160 as you will trash the gear very soon.

Just because the current rules say you can, doesn't mean it should be allowed, as in real life entry levels for example work, sex, drinking, smoking have all changed over years, just cos you used to be able to go work down a mine at 12 years old years ago doesn't mean its right.

Sibenice · March 2017

Woopy wrote: »

So, you want to exclude people from content they're allowed to do/learn so you can farm items?... Find some players and hold a static group.

I see what you're saying - but there's a flaw. You expect these guys to not learn vet dungeons at lower level and then start doing them at 160+, well what do you think happens when they're 160+ and still don't know the mechanics WHEN they're expected to at that point? They either get frustrated and drop or get vote kicked for not knowing what to do or how to do it - rendering your argument utterly useless.

Disagree entirely.

The only difference between that and what's going on now is that they would at least have the ability to go in with max level gear. Allowing for a better potential to have the ability to clear the run.

As is the majority of the time when an under CP160 is in a vet dungeon either someone drops, they get kicked or the run fails.

Also, normal dungeons are there to help learn most of the mechanics before you enter vet. That'd be what they could do for the first 159 CP levels.

Oh_Skrivva · March 2017

I don't mind getting paired up with under leveled players. I see it as, I'm max Cp, have done all end game content. If I haven't I wouldn't be queue said dungeon at said difficulty for my first complete. So I'm more then happy to help otherplayers who haven't completed said content. If you take a step back and at the bigger picture. The more people you help get through dungeons. The more likely to be paired up with people that know the mechanics and dungeon. No matter if there at max Cp or not. If you want fast runs/completes lfg tool isn't your best option.

idk · March 2017

SquareSausage wrote: »

All the people saying there are worse max level, just get a grip.

As has been mentioned there is no need for anyone to go into vet dungeons under CP160 as you will trash the gear very soon.

Just because the current rules say you can, doesn't mean it should be allowed, as in real life entry levels for example work, sex, drinking, smoking have all changed over years, just cos you used to be able to go work down a mine at 12 years old years ago doesn't mean its right.

@SquareSausage

Merely your oppinion. I was clearing vet dungeons at v1 before most even had a vet character. Brought v1 guildies through dungeons one could not queue for until v6 to get their clear (and to form a group since there were few vets at the time. We did fine

It's really absurd to tell people they have no business going into a vet dungeon until CP 160

Honestly. These attempts to defend banishing CP 160 from using the GF for vet dungeons are entertaining even though the suggestions are very misplaced.

Once again, have an issue then form your own group. use your guilds. It's really that easy.

SquareSausage · March 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

@SquareSausage

Merely your oppinion. I was clearing vet dungeons at v1 before most even had a vet character. Brought v1 guildies through dungeons one could not queue for until v6 to get their clear (and to form a group since there were few vets at the time. We did fine

It's really absurd to tell people they have no business going into a vet dungeon until CP 160

Honestly. These attempts to defend banishing CP 160 from using the GF for vet dungeons are entertaining even though the suggestions are very misplaced.

Once again, have an issue then form your own group. use your guilds. It's really that easy.

People mainly use group finder at high levels to get either purple jewels or two keys by completing hardmode in dungeons, thats the only reason apart from someone for the heck of it wants to just do one.

now if you are tank or possibley healer and everyone else is cp 10 to cp100 in green level 40 armour you won't complete them. Maybe a different story as a DD. The high level will leave, leaving the low guys to wallow in pity, low and behold at a failed group. or a few will get kicked and come on here cursing that yet again they were kicked from a dungeon.

The simple fact is that most low levels under 160 perform poorly in comparison to higher level players, sure there are some good, but that is the exception, now to give the group a fighting chance everyone should be of a certain level.

Your example of you clearing stuff at V1 is all very good, you were obviously clued up, but the majority you come across that is not the case.

For the sake of everyone, the low level and higher level, a CP160 restriction would be benficial.

flguy147ub17_ESO · March 2017

As of the mechanics part, Every single person has to do it for the first time to learn the mechanics. The problem with this MMO, Very few people are helpful and never once have i had somebody stop at the beginning and check to make sure everybody knows the mechanics. Other MMOs i have played that was standard to do just to make sure everything goes smoother. The more people willing to help somebody learn mechanics to a new dungeon, the better off all these Pugs and dungeons runs will go for the entire server. More people will be knowledgeable. There are great players out there that wont do some vet dungeons because they dont know the mechanics and dont want to mess up and wipe the group only to deal with being kicked and be talked to in a disrespectful way. And reading a guide or watching a video is totally different then actually doing it. Wish this community was more helpful honestly.

WatchYourSixx · March 2017

While we're on this topic.. I think it would be awesome if Zenimax could scale max lvl content based on some form of item level. They added in the stars on your character page. If all the players in the group have full yellow gear then it would be highest difficulty. If half your group is leet gear and the other half is no stars or one or whatever, then it would average out to the middle difficulty. The quality of loot would be the same.

I could see the problems with it, but something like this couldn't be a terrible idea.