lock out vet dungeons under 160 cp

idk

SquareSausage wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

@SquareSausage

Merely your oppinion. I was clearing vet dungeons at v1 before most even had a vet character. Brought v1 guildies through dungeons one could not queue for until v6 to get their clear (and to form a group since there were few vets at the time. We did fine

It's really absurd to tell people they have no business going into a vet dungeon until CP 160

Honestly. These attempts to defend banishing CP 160 from using the GF for vet dungeons are entertaining even though the suggestions are very misplaced.

Once again, have an issue then form your own group. use your guilds. It's really that easy.

People mainly use group finder at high levels to get either purple jewels or two keys by completing hardmode in dungeons, thats the only reason apart from someone for the heck of it wants to just do one.

now if you are tank or possibley healer and everyone else is cp 10 to cp100 in green level 40 armour you won't complete them. Maybe a different story as a DD. The high level will leave, leaving the low guys to wallow in pity, low and behold at a failed group. or a few will get kicked and come on here cursing that yet again they were kicked from a dungeon.

The simple fact is that most low levels under 160 perform poorly in comparison to higher level players, sure there are some good, but that is the exception, now to give the group a fighting chance everyone should be of a certain level.

Your example of you clearing stuff at V1 is all very good, you were obviously clued up, but the majority you come across that is not the case.

For the sake of everyone, the low level and higher level, a CP160 restriction would be benficial.

@SquareSausage

When my original characters were v1 the information in the dungeons was mostly from beta. Not a lot of information to get clued up on.

CP really has zero to do with a players skill. There are some who don't try a vet dungeon, or clear one, until near the cap. I've seen dps at CP cap that couldn't breach 10k in a stationary single target.

As for the rest of your system, Zos provided the means to ensure ones group is CP 160 or higher. It's forming ones group themselves. Guilds are great for this. Something that your comment seems to overlook.

It's really not Zos' problem since there is already a solution. ^^^

Drasn

Bowpro's come in all shapes and sizes and CP. 2HandBosses as well. Snowflakes are a dime a dozen at all CP levels. I think the real problem for you is that a piece of gear you wanted dropped to that CP120 in your group.

The excuse of gear cap being CP160 is hogwash, because anyone that know how to actually farm for gear is farming Normal Dungeons anyway. The only reason you should be farming in Vet is for Jewelry and Monster Helms.

The one and only stipulation I would put on joining a veteran dungeon is that the character has first completed the normal version of that dungeon prior to being able to run the vet. The reason for this is that they will at least have some idea of the mechanics.

Bottom line is this: If you want a group of all CP160 so they can give you the gear drops you need, make some friends.

Magdalina

SquareSausage wrote: »

As has been mentioned there is no need for anyone to go into vet dungeons under CP160 as you will trash the gear very soon.

Wut? So you only ever run content for gear? What do you do once you acquire that gear, stop playing? (Not to mention gear is easier farmable in normal with exception of jewelry)

I highly doubt low cp go in a dungeon thinking "oooo gear gear I need gear...damn of course I'll have to grind for new gear again later but at least I can grind for this awesome cp 10 help now!"...they're probably more like "ooo I can run vet dungeons now. Cool, I wonder what they're like...". Sometimes people simply run content in order to run content. Then if they like it they'll run it again for fun, achievements or/and to get better at it. In case they are pretty set on certain gear, they could also be farming up keys to use when they hit cp 160. It really is that simple.

I mean obviously you as a max cp Dro m'Athra destroyer desperately farming for his last Burning Spellweave ring don't have to enjoy taking newbies through their first ever (vet) dungeon, but you also don't have to do it at all - there are guilds or zone-made farm groups at least for quick and easy farming.

One thing I do thing could be done would be adding options to groupfinder - "all dungeons all players"/"non-dlc dungeons only"/"cp 160+ farming runs only" etc. However a downside to that would be much smaller pool of players to choose from - while current system is imperfect and often ends up in clashing of interests/expectations, at least you can find a group at all usually(and even now dps have abismal wait times sometimes). With an even smaller pool of players to choose from, I'm not sure there'd be much point left in groupfinder, which is possibly one of the reasons they haven't done it yet.

kargen27

Lynx7386 wrote: »

It isn't elitism. Prior to 160, you are underlevel. The veteran dungeons were designed for Mac level players. You might get by on some, but many are literally impossible with subpar damage, healing, or tanking.

At <160cp, your gear is going to be holding you back. Not only that, it holds back everyone else. How often do people join a dungeon group and see someone looking for certain set pieces? If a sub 160 player is in the group, nothing they loot is usable by the rest.

It takes very little time to grind past the 160 point. New 50's get 4.8 million rested xp right off the bat. If you can't be bothered to grind out a few levels before tackling what is essentially endgame content, don't be surprised if nobody wants to take the time to deal with you.

There is no reason for anyone under 160 to run vet dungeons anyhow, you're not going to use any of the gear you get for more than a few levels.

If you are looking for gear don't use the group finder. Find your group in zone or use guild members. If you want to run with a 160+ only group don't use group finder. Post in zone or get guild members. There is a mechanic in place that allows you to group as you please. Others shouldn't have to change how they play the game because you do not wish to group with them. You are the one that should adjust.

It isn't all about gear for many. It is about the challenge or the fun. I actually like running with players unfamiliar with dungeon mechanics sometimes. Makes the run more interesting. When I want to farm equipment I grab guild mates. Works much better than random even if I would get a good group using the group finder because the others know ahead of time what gear I want and are willing to help me get it. With the group finder the others might be farming the same gear you are so what level they are wouldn't matter anyway.

Quigster

Why not institute something similar to WoW's Proving Grounds? Solo, instanced, self-testing for tank, DPS and heals with progressively difficult levels. Awards provided at Bronze, Silver and Gold depending on a certain number of levels completed. Helps teach mechanics and general roles.

Taleof2Cities

If you have a higher standard that you expect from groupmates in vet dungeons then you should probably join a PvE or Trials guild.

When I join the queue, I know there could be players that still have the training wheels on.

Dantaria

Only cp160+ on vet Fungal Grotto I, guys! I mean, this stuff is tough, lowbies have no business wiggle-waggling in it

It did sting, when cp90 got heavy divines Ilambris, I admit But then I asked myself, "Do I want to spend even more time in queue than I currently do, 'cause lowbies aren't allowed?" The answer was - no.

Also... Now I'm cp300 meta pro-sorc, who knows her s**t, so poor lowbies have no chance to outDPS me. But when I was cp200 and still struggled with all these numbers (omg, which goes where?) and rotation, cp80 stamNB totally crushed me in nICP once. In terms of DPS.

So I keep my mouth shut, when I feel an urge to be elitistic And would prefer to not forget that stamNB in the future.

overclocker303b14_ESO

I pretty much agree with locking out vet dungeons for people under 160, but only locking them out of the looking for group tool. If your guildies want to run you through one even though you are a little green that's fine with me. I ran a few vet dungeons when I was under 160 and only did so because I didn't know any better. Looking back I would have rather it locked me out. The gear you get isn't going to be worth anything anyway and really does suck when something someone in the group really needed drops for someone under level. Plus it doesn't take too long to get to 160 anyway.

That said, I think the penalty for leaving should also be updated. I'm not exactly sure how, but since using the LFG tool I've seen several people quit before the dungeon was even attempted. On the other hand if the healer and or tank do that and then I drop I don't feel I should be punished just because I don't want to sit for 20 minutes to find a replacement.

I also think that there are other times when people are sometimes too quick to kick someone out of their group.

Maybe the penalty / time it takes to re-queue should be a lot longer for the first person to leave before say 10-15 minutes (chances are you at least tried a few pulls by then) and they should just take away the look for a replacement option. That would also take away the chance that your queue pops only to dump you into a group that has been attempting the last boss in direfrost keep for the last 45 minutes and plans on quitting after you give it one attempt.

I don't know that this would be the best way to fix these issues but figured it might be worth consideration.

The ironic thing is most of the dungeon gear is not even as good as crafted sets anyway, so I'm not sure why some people feel the need to be so upset / rude / obnoxious, etc. when they use the LFG tool.

Another thing to keep in mind is some of the vet dungeons (ie. fungle grotto 1 & wayrest sewers 1) are in my humble opinion easier than some of the normal dungeons...so not sure requiring the level cap would fix everything but I still think it's a good start...



TLDR - lock out vet dungeons for people that are under 160, but only if they are using the LFG tool...and it would be nice if the tool were somehow updated so that people that want to act like jerks can't use it as much.

kargen27

overclocker303b14_ESO wrote: »

TLDR - lock out vet dungeons for people that are under 160, but only if they are using the LFG tool...and it would be nice if the tool were somehow updated so that people that want to act like jerks can't use it as much.

To me the looking for group tool is for people that really don't care who they run with, they just want to do a run. I really think if you want to run a group with 160+ you should probably ask for a group in zone. That way you get what you want and you are not locking people out of content based on some arbitrary number.

overclocker303b14_ESO

kargen27 wrote: »

To me the looking for group tool is for people that really don't care who they run with, they just want to do a run.

I don't necessarily care about running with 3 other people that are maxed out and finishing the dungeon in 10 minutes, but I would like to at least be put into a group that has an actual chance of finishing the dungeon. I'm not saying everyone needs to be doing 15k+ dps but if you get grouped with 3 people that just hit 50 and their hps / dps / health is too low, the probability is very high that you won't finish some / most of the vet dungeons.

And I am not suggesting locking anyone out of any content, only preventing using the LFG tool to queue for it when you probably aren't ready for it and will be throwing the gear you get from it away anyway.

kargen27

overclocker303b14_ESO wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

To me the looking for group tool is for people that really don't care who they run with, they just want to do a run.

I don't necessarily care about running with 3 other people that are maxed out and finishing the dungeon in 10 minutes, but I would like to at least be put into a group that has an actual chance of finishing the dungeon. I'm not saying everyone needs to be doing 15k+ dps but if you get grouped with 3 people that just hit 50 and their hps / dps / health is too low, the probability is very high that you won't finish some / most of the vet dungeons.

And I am not suggesting locking anyone out of any content, only preventing using the LFG tool to queue for it when you probably aren't ready for it and will be throwing the gear you get from it away anyway.

You are suggesting locking people out in a way. You are saying they can't use the looking for group tool to do vet content until they reach a certain level.
And again if you are worried about who you might get in your group there is always zone chat. The looking for group tool is bugged anyway so a search in zone would probably be faster.

Bobby_V_Rockit

Not too sure on this one, perhaps a lock for the group finder system but allowed by manual group forming? I did plenty of vet dungeons prior to cp160

BlueRaven

Ha! And here I am with 503 CP and I have yet to do a single dungeon, vet or not.

MW2K

greylox wrote: »

If they gave some sort of quick guide before a dungeon telling you the mechanics then people wouldn't have to waste time telling them.

Haha, I like your thinking. I remember doing Nagafen in EQ1 18-19 years ago with my guild. It was all new to us, no idea how to pull the fire giants, let alone understand Naggy's mechanics. Most of us were wearing crafted gear or quest drops. This was before planar stuff came out.

Six or so hours of corpse retrievals later, we knew a thing or two how the FGs worked, and Naggy's antics.

That was the best guide ever.

Moral of this reply to your post? The only guide to dungeoneering is practice and learning from mistakes. Be glad you don't need to carry coffins around or have magicians with CoH on hand.

Asardes

BlueRaven wrote: »

Ha! And here I am with 503 CP and I have yet to do a single dungeon, vet or not.

You only played PvP? There are plenty of useful sets for that in dungeons.

Vizier

Seriously. You're saying you want to block people from game content because YOU feel like they are not ready for it?

Get some friends. Quit worrying about other players in the public queue.

malicia

The only lock I'd see in place is that vet only becomes available once you've completed it in normal. That is for Group Finder. If you enter the dungeon manually, allow the option between vet and normal.

bloodthirstyvampire

I did vet no problem at CP 15 i just kept an eye on the group and learned the mechanics no problem

Kaymorolis

overclocker303b14_ESO wrote: »

TLDR - lock out vet dungeons for people that are under 160, but only if they are using the LFG tool...

I don't think you understand the purpose of the LFG tool.

It's basically the lazy mans way to get a dungeon group. Want to let the game find three other people for you to run a dungeon with while you go off doing other things? Well, here's the tool for you.

But if you want to be more specific about the criteria involving whom you will run that dungeon with, then it's up to YOU to do the work.

SquareSausage

Dudes all calm down going from 50 to cp160 takes no time at all, you get enlightened all the way from 50 to cp100.
You'd hardly be locked out for long.

Locking it to 160cp is the logical choice despite what the carebears say.
Its not elitist, its common sense that would benefit the lowbie, the higher level and the belief in the LFG tool to produce a valid and successful group.

nursingninja

I would say lock it out to anyone less than CP 300 and/or no matching gold gear.

I'd let them have purple jewelry tho.

kargen27

SquareSausage wrote: »

Dudes all calm down going from 50 to cp160 takes no time at all, you get enlightened all the way from 50 to cp100.
You'd hardly be locked out for long.

Locking it to 160cp is the logical choice despite what the carebears say.
Its not elitist, its common sense that would benefit the lowbie, the higher level and the belief in the LFG tool to produce a valid and successful group.

"hardly for long" is to long. If you don't want a random group do not use the group finder. It is easy enough to get a 160+ group, just ask in zone chat. You are asking to deny content based on an arbitrary number to suit you own personal wants. That is pretty much the definition of elitism.

It escapes me how you think denying someone access is a benefit. The best thing for them is to get in there and experience the fight.

BlueRaven

Asardes wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Ha! And here I am with 503 CP and I have yet to do a single dungeon, vet or not.

You only played PvP? There are plenty of useful sets for that in dungeons.

While I do dabble in PvP, I mostly level alts. I have 3 characters (1 from each faction) that have the Cadwell's Gold Achievement with complete (or near complete) quest clears of each zone. I have 2 additional characters who have completed Cawell's Silver (With Complete zone clears as well.) And 2 Additional level 50 characters. I have had an active sub since launch.

I was just making a point that you can't go just by CP's, because I would defiantly be the weak link in any group situation. I know none of my builds are "optimized".

"Why do you have that on your bar? And you morphed that ability wrong and what were you thinking with the CP placement?" Would be the verdict to most of you guys here on the forums, I suspect.

I came to ESO from Wow. I was in a mid level raid group. I just got burnt out with the grinding and optimal rotations, etc. But that knowledge that I am not optimized has made me shy away from group content as I don't want to be perceived as the weak link in a group. So I mostly play solo, shying away from grouped content. In Cyrodill I don't even join pick up groups I just find a battle and join in on my own.

Anyway, at least you don't have to worry about me messing up any of your dungeon groups.

LordGavus

SquareSausage wrote: »

Dudes all calm down going from 50 to cp160 takes no time at all, you get enlightened all the way from 50 to cp100.
You'd hardly be locked out for long.

Locking it to 160cp is the logical choice despite what the carebears say.
Its not elitist, its common sense that would benefit the lowbie, the higher level and the belief in the LFG tool to produce a valid and successful group.

When I'm farming jewelry I'd love if everyone was CP160. But that's the only benefit to a CP160 lockout.
A tauntless tank or bow light attacking dps is as useful at CP50 as CP160 as CP600.

A level based lockout will not do much to help anyone (except gear farming).
If the point of the lockout is to make sure players can't enter vet before they are capable, then the check needs to be skill based.

klowdy1

They don't need to lock people out, but an alternative would be to set the random dungeon to normal under 160cp. I've not had any problem running vet dungeons, but I don't queue for them on purpose. I've gotten better about it, but the only reason I go into vet dungeons atm is because I don't remember to change the option to normal until I get in. It may take a bit longer, but I have yet to drag the group down too much, or cause any wipes.

laksikus

Im kind of an elitist and min maxer. And I still dont think low cps should be locked out.

Didnt see a Single good argument for it till now.

Some things which were said:

1. Low cp have low dps
True, but that wont change when they are cp160
2. Low cp have bad gear
If a cp 50 wears lvl 35,why do you think he wouldnt wear The same under-leveled gear at CP160? You can actually craft good cp50 gear too
3. Content is scaled to cp 160
While it is true that enemies in dungeons are CP160, it doesnt mean it was CHEATED for CP160. Most old dungeons where at v14 before and arent harder now. And Version 1 dungeons are a joke anyway.
4. Low cps are Too weak to do cp160 content
With the right gear battleleveld chars are stronger than max Level chars. Better stats.


The only small thing you could say against it is gear grinding for max cp guys in group with low cp.
But even there... Get a *** group up without Gf to grind The dungeons. Its faster to make a Group with people and grind it multiple times in a row anyway

@SquareSausage actually in this matter YOU are the carebear that cries to ban certain people from dungeons,just cos he doesnt like the way its now.

Tasear

If you actually follow mechanics most things are possible.

Asardes

BlueRaven wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Ha! And here I am with 503 CP and I have yet to do a single dungeon, vet or not.

You only played PvP? There are plenty of useful sets for that in dungeons.

While I do dabble in PvP, I mostly level alts. I have 3 characters (1 from each faction) that have the Cadwell's Gold Achievement with complete (or near complete) quest clears of each zone. I have 2 additional characters who have completed Cawell's Silver (With Complete zone clears as well.) And 2 Additional level 50 characters. I have had an active sub since launch.

I was just making a point that you can't go just by CP's, because I would defiantly be the weak link in any group situation. I know none of my builds are "optimized".

"Why do you have that on your bar? And you morphed that ability wrong and what were you thinking with the CP placement?" Would be the verdict to most of you guys here on the forums, I suspect.

I came to ESO from Wow. I was in a mid level raid group. I just got burnt out with the grinding and optimal rotations, etc. But that knowledge that I am not optimized has made me shy away from group content as I don't want to be perceived as the weak link in a group. So I mostly play solo, shying away from grouped content. In Cyrodill I don't even join pick up groups I just find a battle and join in on my own.

Anyway, at least you don't have to worry about me messing up any of your dungeon groups.

Well, this is my first MMO so I had to learn everything from scratch, even the jargon. I didn't even know what LFG/LFM mean, I had to look it up on the Internet. I didn't even know what a tank did until I became one. I just grew into my role. I had played 1H+S characters in other TES games so it was not that hard. As I went trough the EP zones I wanted to clear everything, to every quest so I stumbled upon Fungal Grotto near the end of Stonefalls. Then I began to wonder how to complete that. There was no GF back then so people just spammed zone chat or simply stayed at the entrance and sent messages to others standing there. That's how I found my first group. I was around level 20 and only had a few skills unlocked, I had just crafted my first armor set, heavy ashen grip because I had just 2 traits researched. But I completed the dungeon. Same with Darkshade Caverns in Deshaan. By the time I had reached Shadowfen, GF had come along so I queued for Arx Corinium. The first run went badly, as people were not aware of the mechanics. I tried searching on the Internet, figured out the strategy and explained, but they didn't understand. They kept standing in the snake AoE and healing him, or not following the snake to get unter his bubble at the "singer" boss. The next group was better, they listened and some even knew the mechanics and we beat it finally. Next there was Direfrost Keep, where people didn't break the link and kept healing the boss. I left my first 2-3 groups for that reason, but finally completed it. By the time I reached The Rift I was level 45 and the undaunted invitation came. I start doing the "silver" pledges at once and all went smoothly. At level 50/VR1 I started doing the "gold". I did all dungeons in the first rotation, except City of Ash 2, but I did that too at the next rotation. I had that VR4 infused medium Skoria a long time in bank afterwards until I used it to research. I've done the pledges for over a year, almost daily, sometimes on 2 or even 3 characters. I joined a guild, I fully trained 3 characters and I'm now training the 4th. He's in Cadwell's Gold right now. I started doing veteran trials on my tank, PVPd a bit in between to get the skills. I have almost all dungeon achievements. I've only run VDSA once and MSA is not among my priorities ATM. But I will do them eventually, I will do them regularly, and I will do them perfectly. Being stuck just questing forever would be quite boring.

di_rty

I've been playing ESO for about 3 months now and it's my first MMO, so I'm still learning the etiquette/"rules". I leveled 2 characters (magsorc and stamblade) almost exclusively through Dungeon Finder. I did normals as healer first, finished all of them. Then I did all dungeons as DPS on magsorc, then on my stamblade. I hit about CP50 and really started to see the difference between myself and the other people I was queuing with. Found myself often unable to finish dungeons due to players not understanding mechanics, even when I nicely explain them. Or having a magsorc tank who thinks having a pet makes them a tank or a healer who doesn't know what the restro skill tree is. I was doing more than 50% of our damage just about every dungeon, unless I got grouped with a bunch of CP160+ players in normals doing pledges. So, I started queuing for vet dungeons. Early on, I did have a bit of trouble getting used to the mechanics, but I learned. I've now completed every vet dungeon (that I have access to) as DPS. Yes, I only do 25-30% of the dmg, which is low as DPS. Yes, it takes longer to complete a dungeon. Yes, it's pointless to trade weapons due to them being under CP160. But, if not kicked immediately, I always finish the dungeons.

Now that I've read this thread, I more fully understand your frustration as a CP160+, but you have to understand mine as well. The difference between myself and the normal dungeon groups is much greater than the difference between myself and the average MaxCP groups I find in vet dungeons. I doubt this is often the case, but you have to give people a chance.

Yesterday, I got into a vet dungeon and immediately got flamed by the tank, he left. We sat and waited for about 10 minutes and then the healer says, let's just see if we can clear some trash until we get a tank. Things went well. We ended up finishing the dungeon, just the 3 of us. Granted the healer was a monster Templar. There were some parts where we struggled, but we helped each other, talked it over and completed it as a group of 3. We ended up staying in group and completing 3 more dungeons together, with a 4th. Was honestly the most exciting and rewarding this game has been so far. Today, I can't seem to get a group to not kick me or flame me the second I enter a server.

Edit: BTW, I'm CP 120 now.

Zoner

I don't mind carrying. The only time I get really annoyed is if the cp20 person who is contributing nothing gets carried to the end of the dungeon and activates hard mode. Don't push your luck, you got the carry