lock out vet dungeons under 160 cp

Chilly-McFreeze · March 2017

Seems more like an elitist hides behind a cause. Someone who just wants to forbid people to play part of the game because he can't grab lowbies loot. Who are you to tell me or everyone else what I am allowed to play?

Peekachu99 · March 2017

160 at least guarantees the possibility that the player is at gear cap, which indeed makes a difference. Normal dungeons should stay open for all CP ranks and so that basic mechanics can be learned. CP 160 doesn't take that long to achieve at all, and I don't see an issue with this being a baseline and something for newer characters to use as a measure of progression.

Magdalina · March 2017

Prior to ZOS allowing people to do vet dungeons at any level there were people all over complaining about how unfair it is that due to being time constraint/not a grinder/super active gamer they can't experience all of the content they paid for. There're 2 sides to every coin.

Why does it matter what level is their gear? They're getting battle leveled to CP 150 together with their gear anyway. Yeah the lack of cp and underleveled gear(which people also can and do wear at cp 160+) might cut off some of their damage potential compared to cp 160/600 but honestly nowhere near to where they couldn't complete vet dungeons.

The issue is, if anything, how absurdly easy it is to level now and how little learning curve it involves. It stays true at cp 160 though. Average pug skill has dropped atrociously since One Tamriel, and that's from someone who likes teaching people in pugs.

It also is really silly to say there's no point in running dungeon prior to cp 160. It's rather pointless to farm dungeons for gear at that point but someone could, you know, be doing them for fun, experience, skillpoint, Undaunted xp or saving Undaunted keys for when they do hit cp 160. Or is your issue just that they can't give their loot to you if you like what they get in this case?;)

Tl;dr - I understand where "no people under 160/300/600 cp" people are coming from but it won't solve the issue because cp in itself isn't the (main) issue to begin with. Lack of any learning curve whatsoever is.

Chilly-McFreeze · March 2017

How big is the stats gap from e.g. purple 150cp gear to green 160cp gear? How much more player skill and knowledge do you gain from cp159 to cp160? Sure this isn't about easy farming?

IronCrystal · March 2017

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

How big is the stats gap from e.g. purple 150cp gear to green 160cp gear? How much more player skill and knowledge do you gain from cp159 to cp160? Sure this isn't about easy farming?

It's not just the stat's difference, but also the mentality that most players don't collect sets or use severely under-leveled sets because they see no point in collecting them until they are 160.

Chilly-McFreeze · March 2017

If I'm fresh of the 160 I most likely won't have a nice cp160 dropped set either.

Sigma957 · March 2017

If you are farming for gear wouldn't it be easier doing normal group dungeons unless you want purple rings or necklaces. The blue gear can be easily upgraded.

raidentenshu_ESO · March 2017

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

If I'm fresh of the 160 I most likely won't have a nice cp160 dropped set either.

At least you can start off by having 160 crafted sets (You can ask around for a crafter) to start you off with

djdc1234 · March 2017

I support this only so loot is MAX level

MakoFore · March 2017

i think that qualifying for vet - one must at least do normal- its only fair to themselves, to the other team and to the game- we re doing noone any favours if nobody enjoys themselves in a dungeon and rages.

Lynx7386 · March 2017

Horowonnoe wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Really starting to get aggravated queuing into a veteran dungeon only to see cp50-100 guys who have no idea what the mechanics are and can't pull over 5k dps.

Veteran dungeons need to be restricted until after 160 champion points. Anyone under that should be running normal to get a handle on the dungeons before jumping into harder content. Nobody wants to take 20 minutes killing a boss because the dps are wearing blue underwhelming gear and don't know what they're doing.

Dude no. Dungeons are not trials. Dungeons are so people can LEARN.
I could make many examples, but... all i will say is, that i have met many people in vet dungeons who have needed help. I have helped quite a few of them and let's just say, some of those people are now topping the leaderboards in trials. I think everyone deserves a chance.

Normal dungeons are so people can learn. Vet dungeons are for those who already have.

Lynx7386 · March 2017

Cherryblossom wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Really starting to get aggravated queuing into a veteran dungeon only to see cp50-100 guys who have no idea what the mechanics are and can't pull over 5k dps.

Veteran dungeons need to be restricted until after 160 champion points. Anyone under that should be running normal to get a handle on the dungeons before jumping into harder content. Nobody wants to take 20 minutes killing a boss because the dps are wearing blue underwhelming gear and don't know what they're doing.

done plenty of Vet Dungeons with low CP under powered peopled, only occassionally do I get some that are really bad, but I get ones with 600cp who are just as bad.

I'm not insinuating that every high Cp player is good, or that every low cp player is bad. I'm asking for people to at least be at the gear cap before attempting vet (hard mode) dungeons.

Normal dungeons are more than fine for anyone under that gear cap - you still get to finish undaunted dailies, you can still complete the quests, you can still get keys, and you can get in the practice you need before moving on to vet dungeons.

Nobody should be going straight to harder content and bypassing everything else. It's a flaw in eso's design.

Malmai · March 2017

Yes completely agree. In other mmos you have restrictions as well you cant just run in and expect somebody will carry you to the best gear. And im not talking about elitism, just doesnt seem fair to other people who dont have that much time and they still want to play the game...

phairdon · March 2017

How do players learn the mechanics, if they cannot enter the dungeon? As stated in another discussion, my characters are approaching CP700. Guess what? No experience in veteran/group dungeons.
Even some of the best players die in those dungeons, through mistakes.

Dark_Aether · March 2017

You do not want to play with people who are lower level or not at the level of skill you want them to be? Get friends/guildies who meet your expectations and stay out of the grouping tool. It is there for people who agree to play with any types of players...because, surprise, surprise...it's there for everyone.

You kicking people or dropping group because they do not meet your expectations are the one wasting other's time. I personally use grouping tool when I know I can carry the group if everyone else fails. If we cannot complete the dungeon, then it's on me because I knew what I was getting into.

Lynx7386 · March 2017

phairdon wrote: »

How do players learn the mechanics, if they cannot enter the dungeon? .

By doing normal dungeons, why is that such a difficult concept to understand?

Asardes · March 2017

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Really starting to get aggravated queuing into a veteran dungeon only to see cp50-100 guys who have no idea what the mechanics are and can't pull over 5k dps.

Veteran dungeons need to be restricted until after 160 champion points. Anyone under that should be running normal to get a handle on the dungeons before jumping into harder content. Nobody wants to take 20 minutes killing a boss because the dps are wearing blue underwhelming gear and don't know what they're doing.

Wait 'till you see CP500-600 players who have no idea what the mechanics are and can't pull over 5k dps. Recently seen in a random group recruited off Grahtwood zone chat who failed to pull even 30K together on the Adjudicator in VWGT. I vas pulling 4-5K of that so they were probably pulling around 10-12K each. On the other hand I was able to beat VCOA2 back in the day when I was VR4 and under CP100 - hadn't actually spent any at that point. This was long before the dungeon was nerfed into the ground in DB, and it was as hard as it is today. I've also spoted CP187 Stormproof player a few weeks ago. So CP tells me little about actual competence. I'd rather see people play before I decide to kick them. The only inconvenience with playing with people under CP160 is when farming, because they can't give you useful drops.

Rickter · March 2017

I think, if you queue up for random group - then you best be ready to accept what that RANDOM group is.

Kind of that "you made your bed now lay in it" type mentality.

just run the dungeon. give it a chance and if its truly hopeless, go from there but who knows you might meet some nice people that are appreciative you took the time

Magdalina · March 2017

Lynx7386 wrote: »

phairdon wrote: »

How do players learn the mechanics, if they cannot enter the dungeon? .

By doing normal dungeons, why is that such a difficult concept to understand?

To be fair, normal dungeons don't really teach you much of anything unless you get REALLY unlucky with a group and bosses miraculously actually live long enough to show some mechanics.
Exceptions possibly being dlc dungeons.

I just ran Darkshade I(vet) in a pug. 2 people were ~450 cp, one was 600. The 600 dps seemed to believe standing in red buffs your damage - he made sure to go to and STAY in every red there was. Like you know how Gorbul spawns a circle of poison under himself? It's maybe 7 m wide, small enough to easily sidestep and keep dpsing from outside even if you're melee. Guy made damn sure to stay inside it ALL the time for was long as the aoe was up. I have no issues outhealing it but just...why?
Then on last boss when he got boss agro he ran away - literally away - out of my heals' range and died.
Oh and none of them interrupted the healing boss in there, I was the only one bashing her and when I turned away to deal with a couple ads they let her heal back to full. I turn back to see boss healing to near full, tank standing there doing vampire feeding off her and dps standing there(melee) doing Idk what lol.
Cp restrictions are not gonna help, for the most part.

I absolutely agree there is an issue but cp restrictions are not gonna solve it.

Danksta · March 2017

I'd rather we didn't lock out under CP160s. I some times enjoy carrying lower levels, it makes it more of a challenge.

Kodrac · March 2017

Wouldn't be called vet dungeons anymore then would they? What would the new name be? Ooh I know... Elite dungeons!

Too subtle?

Violynne · March 2017

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Veteran dungeons need to be restricted until after 160 champion points. Anyone under that should be running normal to get a handle on the dungeons before jumping into harder content. Nobody wants to take 20 minutes killing a boss because the dps are wearing blue underwhelming gear and don't know what they're doing.

I can't agree with this. Those who are running vet dungeons under CP160 are trying to get better gear to help out with future vet dungeons.

Unfortunately, this issue was created by ZoS, who took it upon themselves to limit personally crafted gear, making it useless in vet dungeons. Now, almost all advice is spam vet dungeons to get the gear needed for CP160 with certain traits.

In other words: this was inevitable based on game design.

I can understand the frustrations of those who've already acquired their stuff, but to limit the chances of others is ridiculously selfish. Do players truly forget they were at the same point one time in their development?

Here's a better solution: talk to the members of the group and ask them if they're familiar with the dungeon or if it's their first time. Explain to them why running veteran at their level will be difficult (if not impossible) due to the bosses.

Just because one isn't pulling CP160 numbers doesn't make them useless. If they can hold their own, I don't see a problem of taking a few extra minutes to take down bosses. That's just not a valid reason to kick people out trying to attain the same level as you and others in vet.

But banning them from playing? Ridiculous.

However, I would not be opposed if ZoS implemented a restriction which requires players to first play the lower level dungeon before accessing the vet level.

That would be fair to everyone.

Lynx7386 · March 2017

I can't agree with this. Those who are running vet dungeons under CP160 are trying to get better gear to help out with future vet dungeons.

Why grind vet dungeons for gear that won't even be at the gear cap? Talk about an exercise in futility.

Danksta · March 2017

Violynne wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Veteran dungeons need to be restricted until after 160 champion points. Anyone under that should be running normal to get a handle on the dungeons before jumping into harder content. Nobody wants to take 20 minutes killing a boss because the dps are wearing blue underwhelming gear and don't know what they're doing.

I can't agree with this. Those who are running vet dungeons under CP160 are trying to get better gear to help out with future vet dungeons.

Unfortunately, this issue was created by ZoS, who took it upon themselves to limit personally crafted gear, making it useless in vet dungeons. Now, almost all advice is spam vet dungeons to get the gear needed for CP160 with certain traits.

In other words: this was inevitable based on game design.

I can understand the frustrations of those who've already acquired their stuff, but to limit the chances of others is ridiculously selfish. Do players truly forget they were at the same point one time in their development?

Here's a better solution: talk to the members of the group and ask them if they're familiar with the dungeon or if it's their first time. Explain to them why running veteran at their level will be difficult (if not impossible) due to the bosses.

Just because one isn't pulling CP160 numbers doesn't make them useless. If they can hold their own, I don't see a problem of taking a few extra minutes to take down bosses. That's just not a valid reason to kick people out trying to attain the same level as you and others in vet.

But banning them from playing? Ridiculous.

However, I would not be opposed if ZoS implemented a restriction which requires players to first play the lower level dungeon before accessing the vet level.

That would be fair to everyone.

Useless?? Geez, I guess I should git gud, get some dropped gear and stop looking to get carried in these dungeons.

Takes-No-Prisoner · March 2017

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Really starting to get aggravated queuing into a veteran dungeon only to see cp50-100 guys who have no idea what the mechanics are and can't pull over 5k dps.

Veteran dungeons need to be restricted until after 160 champion points. Anyone under that should be running normal to get a handle on the dungeons before jumping into harder content. Nobody wants to take 20 minutes killing a boss because the dps are wearing blue underwhelming gear and don't know what they're doing.

@Lynx7386 If you need a tank/heal/DPS PSN message me or pm me in game. I can help you out

I have seen you asking for help in guild chat to run dungeons.

I might need some catch-up advise for Vet dungeons[I mainly PVP], but other then that all my toons are geared up for their specific role(s) and ready to go at any time.

Lynx7386 · March 2017

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Really starting to get aggravated queuing into a veteran dungeon only to see cp50-100 guys who have no idea what the mechanics are and can't pull over 5k dps.

Veteran dungeons need to be restricted until after 160 champion points. Anyone under that should be running normal to get a handle on the dungeons before jumping into harder content. Nobody wants to take 20 minutes killing a boss because the dps are wearing blue underwhelming gear and don't know what they're doing.

@Lynx7386 If you need a tank/heal/DPS PSN message me or pm me in game. I can help you out I have seen you asking for help in guild chat to run dungeons.

Yea, been trying to farm arx corinium for undaunted infiltrator and last night both dps were cp95. Took us >10 minutes just to kill the Damn snake. I usually run as a tank or healer so I'm stuck relying on pug dps a lot of the time. 20+ runs in and I'm just getting to the end of my rope lol

Hand_Bacon · March 2017

I could see a lock out for the group finder vet dungeons at cp 160, but still allowing pre-made groups to include any CP member. Understanding its not a cure to the problem, but it does solve "some" of the problems.

It wasn't long ago that I did a vWGT with a couple of below cp100 dps, they did really well. Although this is clearly the exception that proves the rule.

In the end, you just can't cure the PuG problem, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to make things smoother.

jlboozer · March 2017

In no way am I considered elite, I'm only 370cp myself. This does make a lot of sense though, before 160cp you really shouldn't be attempting Vet anything yet. You're really not ready until you can at least use 160cp gear imo...

Takes-No-Prisoner · March 2017

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Yea, been trying to farm arx corinium for undaunted infiltrator and last night both dps were cp95. Took us >10 minutes just to kill the Damn snake. I usually run as a tank or healer so I'm stuck relying on pug dps a lot of the time. 20+ runs in and I'm just getting to the end of my rope lol

I totally get your frustration. I have a MagSorc with gear sets spec'ed for damage for PvE, BSW+Ilambris+Lich(I think i could switch lich for more dmg?). He can melt Vet mobs pretty fast with buffs. I could run MagTemp or MagDK DPS or Stam but they are not optimized right now.

My PSN is Drogskol_Capn

idk · March 2017

Horowonnoe wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Really starting to get aggravated queuing into a veteran dungeon only to see cp50-100 guys who have no idea what the mechanics are and can't pull over 5k dps.

Veteran dungeons need to be restricted until after 160 champion points. Anyone under that should be running normal to get a handle on the dungeons before jumping into harder content. Nobody wants to take 20 minutes killing a boss because the dps are wearing blue underwhelming gear and don't know what they're doing.

Dude no. Dungeons are not trials. Dungeons are so people can LEARN.
I could make many examples, but... all i will say is, that i have met many people in vet dungeons who have needed help. I have helped quite a few of them and let's just say, some of those people are now topping the leaderboards in trials. I think everyone deserves a chance.

I certain agree with @Horowonnoe but do understand some may not have the time or, well, imthey don't see it benefiting themselves so . . .

The current state of the game, any of the non-DLC dungeons can be easily with one half decent dps. Heck, someone has cleared may of the vet dungeons solo.

If you don't want to run get dungeons with sub CP 160 players form the group yourself. If you choose to use the GF then deal with what you get unless one wants to be an *** and kick players that don't meet your criteria cause it's to challenging when you don't have someone to carry you