lock out vet dungeons under 160 cp

WalksonGraves

7m hp with 2 garbage dps (10k/s total) takes 11.6 minutes. This is one of the earliest dungeons. It's not that it's not possible, it's just between low dps and constantly needing revives they add 30-40 minutes to a run.

stevesherpa

Elitism, elitism, elitism.

I want to lock out <cp160 because, elite.

I dont want <cp600 in my PVP group because, elite.

BiS gear should only be available to cp600 because, elite.

Trials only for, elite.

You are only allowed to talk smack in zone chat or criticize and not be black listed because, you know, ELITE.

Or perhaps, grow up, realize it is just a game and play it, do not dictate what others should or shouldn't be allowed to do.

SquareSausage

laksikus wrote: »

Im kind of an elitist and min maxer. And I still dont think low cps should be locked out.

Didnt see a Single good argument for it till now.

Some things which were said:

1. Low cp have low dps
True, but that wont change when they are cp160
2. Low cp have bad gear
If a cp 50 wears lvl 35,why do you think he wouldnt wear The same under-leveled gear at CP160? You can actually craft good cp50 gear too
3. Content is scaled to cp 160
While it is true that enemies in dungeons are CP160, it doesnt mean it was CHEATED for CP160. Most old dungeons where at v14 before and arent harder now. And Version 1 dungeons are a joke anyway.
4. Low cps are Too weak to do cp160 content
With the right gear battleleveld chars are stronger than max Level chars. Better stats.


The only small thing you could say against it is gear grinding for max cp guys in group with low cp.
But even there... Get a *** group up without Gf to grind The dungeons. Its faster to make a Group with people and grind it multiple times in a row anyway

@SquareSausage actually in this matter YOU are the carebear that cries to ban certain people from dungeons,just cos he doesnt like the way its now.

Giving them the chance to get to CP160 they will surely have completed more dungeons getting a better understanding on normal mode and at Cp160 they can craft end game gear and provide a much better outcome for any groups attempting vet dungeons.
Oh and go and look up the definition of carebear you will find a picture of yourself there staring back at you.

@laksikus

stevesherpa wrote: »

Elitism, elitism, elitism.

I want to lock out <cp160 because, elite.

I dont want <cp600 in my PVP group because, elite.

BiS gear should only be available to cp600 because, elite.

Trials only for, elite.

You are only allowed to talk smack in zone chat or criticize and not be black listed because, you know, ELITE.

Or perhaps, grow up, realize it is just a game and play it, do not dictate what others should or shouldn't be allowed to do.

oh shut up mr whiter than white. Get a grip, and go pug vICP with 3 CP20's who havent even completed ICP on normal then come back and give your ridiculous chat once more.

BlueRaven

Asardes wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Ha! And here I am with 503 CP and I have yet to do a single dungeon, vet or not.

You only played PvP? There are plenty of useful sets for that in dungeons.

While I do dabble in PvP, I mostly level alts. I have 3 characters (1 from each faction) that have the Cadwell's Gold Achievement with complete (or near complete) quest clears of each zone. I have 2 additional characters who have completed Cawell's Silver (With Complete zone clears as well.) And 2 Additional level 50 characters. I have had an active sub since launch.

I was just making a point that you can't go just by CP's, because I would defiantly be the weak link in any group situation. I know none of my builds are "optimized".

"Why do you have that on your bar? And you morphed that ability wrong and what were you thinking with the CP placement?" Would be the verdict to most of you guys here on the forums, I suspect.

I came to ESO from Wow. I was in a mid level raid group. I just got burnt out with the grinding and optimal rotations, etc. But that knowledge that I am not optimized has made me shy away from group content as I don't want to be perceived as the weak link in a group. So I mostly play solo, shying away from grouped content. In Cyrodill I don't even join pick up groups I just find a battle and join in on my own.

Anyway, at least you don't have to worry about me messing up any of your dungeon groups.

Well, this is my first MMO so I had to learn everything from scratch, even the jargon. I didn't even know what LFG/LFM mean, I had to look it up on the Internet. I didn't even know what a tank did until I became one. I just grew into my role. I had played 1H+S characters in other TES games so it was not that hard. As I went trough the EP zones I wanted to clear everything, to every quest so I stumbled upon Fungal Grotto near the end of Stonefalls. Then I began to wonder how to complete that. There was no GF back then so people just spammed zone chat or simply stayed at the entrance and sent messages to others standing there. That's how I found my first group. I was around level 20 and only had a few skills unlocked, I had just crafted my first armor set, heavy ashen grip because I had just 2 traits researched. But I completed the dungeon. Same with Darkshade Caverns in Deshaan. By the time I had reached Shadowfen, GF had come along so I queued for Arx Corinium. The first run went badly, as people were not aware of the mechanics. I tried searching on the Internet, figured out the strategy and explained, but they didn't understand. They kept standing in the snake AoE and healing him, or not following the snake to get unter his bubble at the "singer" boss. The next group was better, they listened and some even knew the mechanics and we beat it finally. Next there was Direfrost Keep, where people didn't break the link and kept healing the boss. I left my first 2-3 groups for that reason, but finally completed it. By the time I reached The Rift I was level 45 and the undaunted invitation came. I start doing the "silver" pledges at once and all went smoothly. At level 50/VR1 I started doing the "gold". I did all dungeons in the first rotation, except City of Ash 2, but I did that too at the next rotation. I had that VR4 infused medium Skoria a long time in bank afterwards until I used it to research. I've done the pledges for over a year, almost daily, sometimes on 2 or even 3 characters. I joined a guild, I fully trained 3 characters and I'm now training the 4th. He's in Cadwell's Gold right now. I started doing veteran trials on my tank, PVPd a bit in between to get the skills. I have almost all dungeon achievements. I've only run VDSA once and MSA is not among my priorities ATM. But I will do them eventually, I will do them regularly, and I will do them perfectly. Being stuck just questing forever would be quite boring.

Ah, this is my third MMO although ESO is the only one I am currently playing. I have always enjoyed Elder Scrolls lore which I find fascinating, so questing is easy for me.

After so many years of moderately intense WoW raiding, it has made me feel really self conscious about "pulling my weight" in groups. Since I don't want anyone, even strangers, to get upset with my output, I just avoid all group situations now.

I enjoy the RPG side of the game and try to build my characters in a way that feels natural for them, not by what the optimal build of the month is currently. So again even though I have a kind of a high(ish) CP count, I would not be a ideal candidate for group content.

Khaos_Bane

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

I have seen CP capped players that played worse than many of the low CP players I have come across. CP may increase damage but if the player does not know what to do it does not really matter if they can allot 1000 CP.

Further, I can carry a group through most vet dungeons so do not see much of a reason to set vet dungeons to be a higher level than they have been all along.

Last, no one needs to group with anyone below a CP level they choose. The game does not require it. If one chooses to use GF, that is their choice, but the lose the right to choose the CP level of those they dungeon with that time.

So if you do not want to run dungeons with low CP players the solution is extremely simple, do not use GF to find the group. Form up the group your self.

Hey Giles can get them through so let's apply this rule to everyone ! Sometimes it is an issue and often times they don't get it until they try one and it embarrasses them. There is a progression system and I agree there should be a minimum to spare them getting kicked.

And LOL at Giles telling people not use the LFG tool if they don't like. Right Giles, I think we will just kick them from group instead. Don't use the LFG tool if you don't like carrying under leveled players through Vet dungeons, give me a break.

laksikus

@SquareSausage and what exactly is a carebear? tell me.
not someone that whines about things they dont like till it gets changed for no good reason.

would you rather run with 3 cp160 with the same bad gear as those cp20? cos battle level will be over then, and their stats even worse. For every new player you find with bad gear, you find one that has good not uóutleveled gear. It doesnt matter if tis cp20 or cp160, new player is new player.

And normal dungeon mechanics can be ignored, they dont prepare you for things like vet dlc dungeons.
And for that normal dungeons can be as easy done before lvl 50. Then you know those "mechanics" for vet

Asardes

BlueRaven wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Ha! And here I am with 503 CP and I have yet to do a single dungeon, vet or not.

You only played PvP? There are plenty of useful sets for that in dungeons.

While I do dabble in PvP, I mostly level alts. I have 3 characters (1 from each faction) that have the Cadwell's Gold Achievement with complete (or near complete) quest clears of each zone. I have 2 additional characters who have completed Cawell's Silver (With Complete zone clears as well.) And 2 Additional level 50 characters. I have had an active sub since launch.

I was just making a point that you can't go just by CP's, because I would defiantly be the weak link in any group situation. I know none of my builds are "optimized".

"Why do you have that on your bar? And you morphed that ability wrong and what were you thinking with the CP placement?" Would be the verdict to most of you guys here on the forums, I suspect.

I came to ESO from Wow. I was in a mid level raid group. I just got burnt out with the grinding and optimal rotations, etc. But that knowledge that I am not optimized has made me shy away from group content as I don't want to be perceived as the weak link in a group. So I mostly play solo, shying away from grouped content. In Cyrodill I don't even join pick up groups I just find a battle and join in on my own.

Anyway, at least you don't have to worry about me messing up any of your dungeon groups.

Well, this is my first MMO so I had to learn everything from scratch, even the jargon. I didn't even know what LFG/LFM mean, I had to look it up on the Internet. I didn't even know what a tank did until I became one. I just grew into my role. I had played 1H+S characters in other TES games so it was not that hard. As I went trough the EP zones I wanted to clear everything, to every quest so I stumbled upon Fungal Grotto near the end of Stonefalls. Then I began to wonder how to complete that. There was no GF back then so people just spammed zone chat or simply stayed at the entrance and sent messages to others standing there. That's how I found my first group. I was around level 20 and only had a few skills unlocked, I had just crafted my first armor set, heavy ashen grip because I had just 2 traits researched. But I completed the dungeon. Same with Darkshade Caverns in Deshaan. By the time I had reached Shadowfen, GF had come along so I queued for Arx Corinium. The first run went badly, as people were not aware of the mechanics. I tried searching on the Internet, figured out the strategy and explained, but they didn't understand. They kept standing in the snake AoE and healing him, or not following the snake to get unter his bubble at the "singer" boss. The next group was better, they listened and some even knew the mechanics and we beat it finally. Next there was Direfrost Keep, where people didn't break the link and kept healing the boss. I left my first 2-3 groups for that reason, but finally completed it. By the time I reached The Rift I was level 45 and the undaunted invitation came. I start doing the "silver" pledges at once and all went smoothly. At level 50/VR1 I started doing the "gold". I did all dungeons in the first rotation, except City of Ash 2, but I did that too at the next rotation. I had that VR4 infused medium Skoria a long time in bank afterwards until I used it to research. I've done the pledges for over a year, almost daily, sometimes on 2 or even 3 characters. I joined a guild, I fully trained 3 characters and I'm now training the 4th. He's in Cadwell's Gold right now. I started doing veteran trials on my tank, PVPd a bit in between to get the skills. I have almost all dungeon achievements. I've only run VDSA once and MSA is not among my priorities ATM. But I will do them eventually, I will do them regularly, and I will do them perfectly. Being stuck just questing forever would be quite boring.

Ah, this is my third MMO although ESO is the only one I am currently playing. I have always enjoyed Elder Scrolls lore which I find fascinating, so questing is easy for me.

After so many years of moderately intense WoW raiding, it has made me feel really self conscious about "pulling my weight" in groups. Since I don't want anyone, even strangers, to get upset with my output, I just avoid all group situations now.

I enjoy the RPG side of the game and try to build my characters in a way that feels natural for them, not by what the optimal build of the month is currently. So again even though I have a kind of a high(ish) CP count, I would not be a ideal candidate for group content.

You can pull respectable DPS, heal and tank in crafted gear, there's no need to go farming for gear intensively unless you want to pull that extra +5%. And quite a few good sets for every role are relatively easy to farm as they are in easy dungeons you can even solo on normal. Now there's the alternative of beating on the training dummy. If you want a more realistic experience you can pick a normal dungeon, enter alone, kill a few mobs until you reach the first boss then beat on him. Ex the crocodile in Wayrest Sewers 1 has no adds, simple mechanics and only a few weak mobs between him and the entrance. You can't learn to "pull your weight" unless you actually start doing it. Even with a simple rotation and crafted gear you can pull 20K+ DPS on any class which is enough to get you trough dungeons in normal mode even solo, and in a group trough most veteran dungeons. For tanking and healing there's no such requirement, so if you are not comfortable with DD role you can start with those. There are plenty of guides on the internet. As you start doing dungeons, dropped sets with good traits tend to accumulate, so you can use those. If you don't have enough storage space, simply make a new char, buy backpack upgrades, start training his riding skill and until he is ready use him as store. All my chars started out like that.

MCBIZZLE300

I'd usually agree with this but the other day i was in activity finder and completed banished cells hard mode with 3 people, One cp600 healer, me a 450cp DD and one CP110 DD. I understand your frustration tho, especially if mechanics have a big part to play and you cant ignore them.

SquareSausage

@laksikus look it up if you care (hehe).

No id rather run with 3 cp160 who now have crafted CP160 gear, with skills unlocked and a better understanding of the game.

Even in normal mechanics cannot ignored, take WGT, mazzatun, CoS, FG2, CoH 2, etc all need to do mechanics to pass.

You'd be wrong saying 1 for 1 with regard outlevlled gear on newer players. One of my guilds is a social guild and the requests for gear suggestions and crafting once they join is always a big thing as they were anything they find, not set pieces that are way too low.

POps75p

especially cradle of shadows and mazz

laksikus

SquareSausage wrote: »

@laksikus look it up if you care (hehe).

No id rather run with 3 cp160 who now have crafted CP160 gear, with skills unlocked and a better understanding of the game.

Even in normal mechanics cannot ignored, take WGT, mazzatun, CoS, FG2, CoH 2, etc all need to do mechanics to pass.

You'd be wrong saying 1 for 1 with regard outlevlled gear on newer players. One of my guilds is a social guild and the requests for gear suggestions and crafting once they join is always a big thing as they were anything they find, not set pieces that are way too low.

Thats Not a posibility. Its a Bad geared cp20 vs a Bad geared CP160. The difference is the same.
Cos New cp 160 wont have the gear either unless they care to get it. And most fresh cp160 that i met, had good non max level gear as well

Asardes

I've kept wearing my level 44 blue training gear on my chars when doing overland content and training various skills along the way even after they hit vet. I've even beaten some WBs solo wearing that gear, while only buffing my health with crusty bread. I actually love to gimp myself so enemies become harder in overland content so I could optimize my rotation before hitting group content - I only do that after fully speccing my class, racials, 2x weapon, 1x armor, mages/fighters' guild. I've noticed that I'm pulling between 10-15K on overland enemies even in that trash gear. They have less armor than dungeon ones, but I could probably still pull 8-10K on those as well.

Soulshine

Syntse wrote: »

Farming gear in vet dungeons and being able to swap with people in the group is different thing than complaining someone doing poor dps and not knowing what they are doing.

Might be that they just want to complete the dungeon or get the skillpoint from it and not bothered about the gear at that point. "No you cannot do that because other members of your party cannot use your loot if you manage to get some good drops."

You want fast runs with people who know what they do and swap drops if manage to get something good. Run with guild.

Amen.

SquareSausage

laksikus wrote: »

Thats Not a posibility. Its a Bad geared cp20 vs a Bad geared CP160. The difference is the same.
Cos New cp 160 wont have the gear either unless they care to get it. And most fresh cp160 that i met, had good non max level gear as well

it is quite definitely a possibility.
All advice given in our guild and I'm presuming all other guilds is don't waste mats/money until CP160 and once these newer people reach CP160 we craft them gear.


Anyway this is dragging on, you'd obviously like to run Vet dungeons with poorly geared people instead of well geared higher level people so that's your game and your time, go for it.

idk

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

I have seen CP capped players that played worse than many of the low CP players I have come across. CP may increase damage but if the player does not know what to do it does not really matter if they can allot 1000 CP.

Further, I can carry a group through most vet dungeons so do not see much of a reason to set vet dungeons to be a higher level than they have been all along.

Last, no one needs to group with anyone below a CP level they choose. The game does not require it. If one chooses to use GF, that is their choice, but the lose the right to choose the CP level of those they dungeon with that time.

So if you do not want to run dungeons with low CP players the solution is extremely simple, do not use GF to find the group. Form up the group your self.

Hey Giles can get them through so let's apply this rule to everyone ! Sometimes it is an issue and often times they don't get it until they try one and it embarrasses them. There is a progression system and I agree there should be a minimum to spare them getting kicked.

And LOL at Giles telling people not use the LFG tool if they don't like. Right Giles, I think we will just kick them from group instead. Don't use the LFG tool if you don't like carrying under leveled players through Vet dungeons, give me a break.

@Khaos_Bane thx for your response. It explains much about why your finding dungeons challenging. When someone's reply in a discussion is merely to put down the other person in hopes of elevating their own oppinion it demonstrates a lack of needed for what they are attemptIng to put forward.

Khaos_Bane

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

I have seen CP capped players that played worse than many of the low CP players I have come across. CP may increase damage but if the player does not know what to do it does not really matter if they can allot 1000 CP.

Further, I can carry a group through most vet dungeons so do not see much of a reason to set vet dungeons to be a higher level than they have been all along.

Last, no one needs to group with anyone below a CP level they choose. The game does not require it. If one chooses to use GF, that is their choice, but the lose the right to choose the CP level of those they dungeon with that time.

So if you do not want to run dungeons with low CP players the solution is extremely simple, do not use GF to find the group. Form up the group your self.

Hey Giles can get them through so let's apply this rule to everyone ! Sometimes it is an issue and often times they don't get it until they try one and it embarrasses them. There is a progression system and I agree there should be a minimum to spare them getting kicked.

And LOL at Giles telling people not use the LFG tool if they don't like. Right Giles, I think we will just kick them from group instead. Don't use the LFG tool if you don't like carrying under leveled players through Vet dungeons, give me a break.

@Khaos_Bane thx for your response. It explains much about why your finding dungeons challenging. When someone's reply in a discussion is merely to put down the other person in hopes of elevating their own oppinion it demonstrates a lack of needed for what they are attemptIng to put forward.

I'm not finding Dungeons horribly challenging, but I'm clearly not as good as you. Last night was a perfect example, I did a random vet on my Tank and popped into a group that was stuck on Inhibitor. Then a DPS left the group as well, so they entered us back into the queue. We had a CP 71 character come into the group, kicked them, then a CP 50 something, kicked them, then a CP 300+ came in and we continued.

Nobody felt bad about it at all.

ComboBreaker88

Lock out under 160? Hahaha. How about we just lock out anyone under CP cap..

RakshaTheKhajiit

Hmm, how about restricting people like OP from using group finder, so we wont have to live through trauma of running dungeons with someone so selfish? ;3

On more serious note, since ESO made first great step by making player levels stop getting in the way of fun, how about doing the same with gear levels? Get rid of gear levels altogether. These serve no purpose now, only make things annoying while leveling since you have to replace gear all the time...

Nahtal

Sad to say but i agree.

Or put it this way

(Easy)(lvl 5/40)
(Normal)(lvl 40/160CP)
(Vet) 160CP

ArnoTerranova

Its a long running debate,
but I tend to agree!

I would not mind a new mode as well
normal
vet (cp160+)
heroic mode - (cp300+)

for example