Hush, I have zero points in Warlord already.

bowmanz607 · March 2017

JinMori wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Some people just can't play man. They will continue to yell that they need their infinite resource crutch so they can run full bis dps sets.

I love how people keep saying most don't want this change. What a riot.

Another guy who talks talks talks.

Let's see this set of yours that gives top DPS and also infinite resources. In solo, of course.

Oh, wait, you mean you need a group to get... group buffs?

So what, I do 3 hours trials a week, the remaining 39 I don't have a trial group to back me up, just some terrible random who can barely heal, much less throw proper buffs.

Yea exactly, bis pve gear is SUPPOSED to be used with group buffs, because you can't sustain without other people.
Being forced to run regen is neither intelligent, neither good for the game, it just pisses off people, and it's less fun, virtually no game forces you to drop damage in favor of sustain, you know why? because it's not fun, and if a game isn't fun to play then we have a serious problem.

No, in your opinion having to watch your resources is not fun.

The game should not be just spam your attacks for damage and not worry about it. Resource management takes skill and discipline.

Many many people left this game because it was not fun. Why? Because they made the game more and more easy mode which gets worse with more cp.

The statistics do not agree with you, since this game has much more players then before.

We don't have those statistics sooooo.....

But I can point to the lack of full campaigns like we used to have. Or the fact that each zone was dead until they had to bring the player base together with one tamriel.

Additionally, even if you do have some statistics, which you don't, I said many people left. Said nothing about population of the game.

Ferretstalker · March 2017

PvE is boring anyway.

Joking aside I'm wondering why people are angery this CP change will force people to run different gear sets for sustain when this game is gear based up the wazoo.

First proc sets, now a greater prioritization on sustain gear. Tripled up with the "Increase Damage of X skills by Y", and it's clear where the direction of the game is headed.

Horowonnoe · March 2017

JinMori wrote: »

Horowonnoe wrote: »

It is just a game. This is not final yet. Everyone chill out. In the scenario that this does go live, everyone has choices:
- Adapt and build a new meta. Git gud.
- Whine forever and do nothing to improve your situation (while providing me with lols)
- Quit the game
- Apply for a job at zos and make a direct impact

P.s I do enjoy these threads so i hope someone keeps making them. Lemme grab more wine and some popcorn. Lol

And what exactly are you contributing to the discussion?

Also whining doesn't quite fit, i call this complaining, and complaining can be good, it's what allows us to make things better by calling out the things that are bad to try to improve them.

So while you sit and grab your popcorns and do absolutely nothing, i will complain about the things that i don't like to try to make them better, with the help of other people.

You are the embodiment of one of the points you made in your post. You are not doing anything to improve the situation.
Might wanna think about it.

Hmm maybe I am. Maybe i'm not. Never have had the pleasure of playing with you so how would you know?

We do not have the patch notes yet, so we do not have the whole story. Remember when everyone was crying their eyes out how "sorcs got nerfed" supposedly last patch. And in actuality they got buffed. Same thing here, we are crying over something that is not yet real and not there. Perhaps ZOS has more things they have in mind that they have not yet revealed.

And sure i like my sustain and my regen as it currently is. But if things do change, im going to adapt to those changes, and find a path that works.

Trihugger · March 2017

These white knights are about as dense as mercury. This is a "whole picture" argument.

Do you REALLY think ZOS is going to go back and balance trials to match the 5k-10k+ DPS per DPS loss that has to wear some kind of awful sustain gear? History has been rather indicative of this NOT being likely.

Everything has a cost. Currently vMoL more or less requires the damage output of glass-cannon no sustain balls to wall DPS from "good" players. Now if your goal is to take the 1% that is able to clear trials and turn that into a 0.1%, then this change is for you as most trial groups will have to cut their bottom rung.

Every last one of you white knight forum warriors claiming that it's possible to still play the game with this WRETCHED change is correct. However, you're sadly EXTREMELY ignorant of the implications of doing so.

idk · March 2017

Horowonnoe wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

Horowonnoe wrote: »

It is just a game. This is not final yet. Everyone chill out. In the scenario that this does go live, everyone has choices:
- Adapt and build a new meta. Git gud.
- Whine forever and do nothing to improve your situation (while providing me with lols)
- Quit the game
- Apply for a job at zos and make a direct impact

P.s I do enjoy these threads so i hope someone keeps making them. Lemme grab more wine and some popcorn. Lol

And what exactly are you contributing to the discussion?

Also whining doesn't quite fit, i call this complaining, and complaining can be good, it's what allows us to make things better by calling out the things that are bad to try to improve them.

So while you sit and grab your popcorns and do absolutely nothing, i will complain about the things that i don't like to try to make them better, with the help of other people.

You are the embodiment of one of the points you made in your post. You are not doing anything to improve the situation.
Might wanna think about it.

Hmm maybe I am. Maybe i'm not. Never have had the pleasure of playing with you so how would you know?

We do not have the patch notes yet, so we do not have the whole story. Remember when everyone was crying their eyes out how "sorcs got nerfed" supposedly last patch. And in actuality they got buffed. Same thing here, we are crying over something that is not yet real and not there. Perhaps ZOS has more things they have in mind that they have not yet revealed.

And sure i like my sustain and my regen as it currently is. But if things do change, im going to adapt to those changes, and find a path that works.

@Horowonnoe

You rock and said in this post and your previous post in this thread exactly how it is. Not sure how Jin thinks he/she is contributing anything in this thread other than making him/her feel better by bashing you.

Horowonnoe · March 2017

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Horowonnoe wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

Horowonnoe wrote: »

It is just a game. This is not final yet. Everyone chill out. In the scenario that this does go live, everyone has choices:
- Adapt and build a new meta. Git gud.
- Whine forever and do nothing to improve your situation (while providing me with lols)
- Quit the game
- Apply for a job at zos and make a direct impact

P.s I do enjoy these threads so i hope someone keeps making them. Lemme grab more wine and some popcorn. Lol

And what exactly are you contributing to the discussion?

Also whining doesn't quite fit, i call this complaining, and complaining can be good, it's what allows us to make things better by calling out the things that are bad to try to improve them.

So while you sit and grab your popcorns and do absolutely nothing, i will complain about the things that i don't like to try to make them better, with the help of other people.

You are the embodiment of one of the points you made in your post. You are not doing anything to improve the situation.
Might wanna think about it.

Hmm maybe I am. Maybe i'm not. Never have had the pleasure of playing with you so how would you know?

We do not have the patch notes yet, so we do not have the whole story. Remember when everyone was crying their eyes out how "sorcs got nerfed" supposedly last patch. And in actuality they got buffed. Same thing here, we are crying over something that is not yet real and not there. Perhaps ZOS has more things they have in mind that they have not yet revealed.

And sure i like my sustain and my regen as it currently is. But if things do change, im going to adapt to those changes, and find a path that works.

@Horowonnoe

You rock and said in this post and your previous post in this thread exactly how it is. Not sure how Jin thinks he/she is contributing anything in this thread other than making him/her feel better by bashing you.

@Giles.floydub17_ESO

Sovaso · March 2017

Stamina? Nah

Enslaved · March 2017

Hurr Durr, I have no problems sustaining, ask guars around Davon's Watch

Yeah, OP, cool story, bro.
So, Zos had to deal with few issues, most of them like motherf* lag are present from start, and they choose to nerf sustain to the ground. Logic?

If they wanted less lag in PvP they could remove destro ulti or remove the bastion CP so we dont have to deal with unkillable templars anymore. But no, they have read few QQ threads by hurr durrs that demand more challenging PvE content and someone there decided that the best idea is to nerf sustain...Lovely, glorious, astonishing, that would solve everything, right?
In reality, it just boosts zergplay in PvP and nerfs the F out of majority of builds in PvE. GG Zos, another bs move.

Ajaxduo · March 2017

How is that 10k dps? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Lylith · March 2017

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

you are not pushing your skills fast enough then. Players with the highest damage, also are faster on their skills. I guess this is a part of the gap they are trying to close between good and bad players.

by making it more difficult for both of them?

zo$ logic at its finest, unfortunately.

BadLuckCharm · March 2017

Do you REALLY think ZOS is going to go back and balance trials to match the 5k-10k+ DPS per DPS loss that has to wear some kind of awful sustain gear? History has been rather indicative of this NOT being likely.

This piece of comment is interesting. I've looked at this thread, and quickly looked at the other, and i get the impression this is the real nerve of the argument for those that don't want this change. Now, i'm genuinely curious: let's say that they will actually go and rebalance the various instances and bosses to take into account the proposed changes. Would that make the changes acceptable?

And just to add: i have no stake in the discussion - i don't even run trials (well not yet, at least). I just want to see what angle the opposition to the changes is coming from.

Lylith · March 2017

JinMori wrote: »

PathwayM wrote: »

Ya'll youngens may not remember this... But there was a time way back when champion points didn't exist and people knew how to manage their resources... Unbelievable right?

Ability cost have been increased over time since the introduction of cp points, so if they remove a strong sustain component it will go to ***.

and, after the intial nerf, bosses have been buffed a time or two.

Bartdude · March 2017

I only had to read OP's first post to know this was a troll thread

Edziu · March 2017

Anti_Virus wrote: »

This change needs to go live its about time people make a sacrifice, more damage or more sustain.

as someone wrote about HRC hard mode...you need to go now full on dps because of enrage phase where all adds are comming if you dont melt boss to his last phase and then you need to deal with those adds...hard modes in trials are mosly dps test and if you will lost your sustain with max dps what you have now then as someone wrote....less people will be able to done this and what is the point? top players will still doing this..nerf will hit them but wont stop them from doing this while just average players who are not that experienced will feel better this nerf and this content will be just harder for them if will be possible to done for them without enough dps because of sustain nerf

Kay1 · March 2017

JinMori wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

You must also do amazing 10k AoE dps.

Eh, my regen is 2k, and my Weapon damage is 3.8k, and 32k stamina.

I do aight.

2k recovery... no wonder you are doing fine on the sustain aspect. Basically you argument ended the moment you told us that.
Also since you are running clever alchemist and spriggan i'm guessing that you are a pvp player, so basically the argument that these changes were done for pvp it's true.
So really *** you. You are the kind of player that only cares about his side, and only that.
Pve will be screwed over because of people like you.

Why do you generalize like that, these changes are far worse for PvP than PvE and only a zerg player or a casual who can't even complete a vet dungeon wants the nerf.

PvE won't be nerfed because of people like the OP, because no one asked for this nerf in the first case, Zenimax decided because they don't want solo PvP and small scale to be a thing in this game.

Please stop generalizing.

Anhedonie · March 2017

Fishoscandi wrote: »

Anhedonie wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

Ulfgarde wrote: »

What sets are you running? Damage sets? Sustain? Black rose, amberplasm, etc?

Of course, you can sustain with different sets. The potential issue is universal sustainability, not really "I can sustain, therefore it must not be an issue for most other people".

No, this just means you can't have both max DPS and max sustain.

Ya know... Balance. Crazy, I know.

Sustain is what are healers for.

Lol, @MissBizz did say that templars are stamina hos.

"Spear b**ch" was another common phrase.

bg22 · March 2017

dem0n1k wrote: »

How do you get 2k stam recovery & 3.8k weapon damage wearing Spriggans & Clever Alchemist? I'm not doubting!... genuinely interested to know how!

I was a few points off. Hadn't played in a few days. My bad.

GreenhaloX · March 2017

bg22 wrote: »

Seriously...

0 points into warlord as it is now, and I have absolutely no issues maintaining resources.

It'll be ok. You might have to do some thinking, use food, and potions... but it'll be ok.

The game isn't going to break.

Shhhh, it's okay. Shhhhh.

Of course.. you can also go chestless/armorless or weaponless without food or buff and still beat down baddies with your bare fists. I've done it and the game didn't break yet.

bg22 · March 2017

GreenhaloX wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

Seriously...

0 points into warlord as it is now, and I have absolutely no issues maintaining resources.

It'll be ok. You might have to do some thinking, use food, and potions... but it'll be ok.

The game isn't going to break.

Shhhh, it's okay. Shhhhh.

Of course.. you can also go chestless/armorless or weaponless without food or buff and still beat down baddies with your bare fists. I've done it and the game didn't break yet.

I just posted my attributes... but ok.

I'm also only Cp280. /gasp

Vahrokh · March 2017

Trihugger wrote: »

These white knights are about as dense as mercury. This is a "whole picture" argument.

Do you REALLY think ZOS is going to go back and balance trials to match the 5k-10k+ DPS per DPS loss that has to wear some kind of awful sustain gear? History has been rather indicative of this NOT being likely.

Everything has a cost. Currently vMoL more or less requires the damage output of glass-cannon no sustain balls to wall DPS from "good" players. Now if your goal is to take the 1% that is able to clear trials and turn that into a 0.1%, then this change is for you as most trial groups will have to cut their bottom rung.

Every last one of you white knight forum warriors claiming that it's possible to still play the game with this WRETCHED change is correct. However, you're sadly EXTREMELY ignorant of the implications of doing so.

This is exactly what I am saying since a week. They just can't understand this obvious concept.

CultOfMMO · March 2017

bg22 wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

I see an endless stream of ppl saying that I'm saying "I can do it so everyone can do it" yet they don't see the irony in them saying "I can't do it so you can't do it."

L
2
P

@bg22

We are merely saying you would do lousy dps in PvE. Your argument is rather moot to the larger game considering you merely do burst damage in PvP.

Basically it is get real time.

Set up as I am, yes, I do great burst damage. However I can still comfortably run 15k+ (On a target dummy) sustained indefinitely. Yes that's not a lot, and I get that, but that's kinda the goal that the devs are going for. Also, because of the fact that I stack penetration, I still hit very very hard.

As is, the sustainable DPS ceiling is ridiculously high. So much so that if you're not running BiS as a magicka character, you're basically laughable. And stamina DPS is not welcome in leaderboard runs. This is an attempt, in my opinion, to change that. And I'm a fan.

@bg22

okay how do I put this...

25k is not alot

15k is absolutely pathetic

Now I do like your point of this is ZOS's attempt to narrow the DPS gap, that's honestly something I did not think of when I was scratching my head as to why they would make the CP change. But really...innovative builds, person skill, and group synergy will forever and ever separate the good from the bad. People tend to underestimate quality effort put into learning their characters, they think the secret weapon is always the gear and that is the answer to everything. Well its not.

But yea really you ended the whole discussion by finally admitting your own dps numbers, it absolutely validated every point every one else was trying to make.

Vahrokh · March 2017

BadLuckCharm wrote: »

Do you REALLY think ZOS is going to go back and balance trials to match the 5k-10k+ DPS per DPS loss that has to wear some kind of awful sustain gear? History has been rather indicative of this NOT being likely.

This piece of comment is interesting. I've looked at this thread, and quickly looked at the other, and i get the impression this is the real nerve of the argument for those that don't want this change. Now, i'm genuinely curious: let's say that they will actually go and rebalance the various instances and bosses to take into account the proposed changes. Would that make the changes acceptable?

And just to add: i have no stake in the discussion - i don't even run trials (well not yet, at least). I just want to see what angle the opposition to the changes is coming from.

History shows ZOS did not care the less to check side effects of their nerfs if not after months and months of enraged feeback by many.

Present shows the nerfs being present and "photographed", whereas the rebalance of existing content has not been even taken into consideration.

This gives more that one reason to be skeptical about ZOS ability to "do it right".

What happens is this: they handful of top guilds (Hodor and similar) with those 57k DPS "one in a million" players will clear content doing in example 40k DPS.

The absoultely, overly-massive majority, barely able to clear those instances today, will suddenly do 5-10K DPS below the minimum required to pass DPS checks and will go under.

The result? Similar to what I have seen 2 years ago: perhaps 70% of trial guilds evaporating from the game in few months.

Cpt_Teemo · March 2017

bg22 wrote: »

dem0n1k wrote: »

How do you get 2k stam recovery & 3.8k weapon damage wearing Spriggans & Clever Alchemist? I'm not doubting!... genuinely interested to know how!

I was a few points off. Hadn't played in a few days. My bad.

I say your using as many buffs as possible !

bg22 · March 2017

CultOfMMO wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

I see an endless stream of ppl saying that I'm saying "I can do it so everyone can do it" yet they don't see the irony in them saying "I can't do it so you can't do it."

L
2
P

@bg22

We are merely saying you would do lousy dps in PvE. Your argument is rather moot to the larger game considering you merely do burst damage in PvP.

Basically it is get real time.

Set up as I am, yes, I do great burst damage. However I can still comfortably run 15k+ (On a target dummy) sustained indefinitely. Yes that's not a lot, and I get that, but that's kinda the goal that the devs are going for. Also, because of the fact that I stack penetration, I still hit very very hard.

As is, the sustainable DPS ceiling is ridiculously high. So much so that if you're not running BiS as a magicka character, you're basically laughable. And stamina DPS is not welcome in leaderboard runs. This is an attempt, in my opinion, to change that. And I'm a fan.

@bg22

okay how do I put this...

25k is not alot

15k is absolutely pathetic

Now I do like your point of this is ZOS's attempt to narrow the DPS gap, that's honestly something I did not think of when I was scratching my head as to why they would make the CP change. But really...innovative builds, person skill, and group synergy will forever and ever separate the good from the bad. People tend to underestimate quality effort put into learning their characters, they think the secret weapon is always the gear and that is the answer to everything. Well its not.

But yea really you ended the whole discussion by finally admitting your own dps numbers, it absolutely validated every point every one else was trying to make.

I am not set up for trials. If I were to do that, and change a few skills around then 25k is easily achieved. As I am RIGHT NOW that's what I put out.

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

dem0n1k wrote: »

How do you get 2k stam recovery & 3.8k weapon damage wearing Spriggans & Clever Alchemist? I'm not doubting!... genuinely interested to know how!

I was a few points off. Hadn't played in a few days. My bad.

I say your using as many buffs as possible !

As far as Weapon damage goes? Forward Momentum.

So... nope.

bg22 · March 2017

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

dem0n1k wrote: »

How do you get 2k stam recovery & 3.8k weapon damage wearing Spriggans & Clever Alchemist? I'm not doubting!... genuinely interested to know how!

I was a few points off. Hadn't played in a few days. My bad.

I say your using as many buffs as possible !

When I receive some group buffs, it puts my Weapon damage around 5.5k.

6.4k was the highest I've seen it tho. That's with this same setup.

SickDuck · March 2017

Fishing is fun in full leather.

max_only · March 2017

SickDuck wrote: »

Fishing is fun in full leather.

Kinky.

bowmanz607 · March 2017

Kyle1983b14_ESO wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

dem0n1k wrote: »

How do you get 2k stam recovery & 3.8k weapon damage wearing Spriggans & Clever Alchemist? I'm not doubting!... genuinely interested to know how!

I was a few points off. Hadn't played in a few days. My bad.

I say your using as many buffs as possible !

those stats are standard for an alchemist stam buff with only major brutality.

apostate9 · March 2017

Ulfgarde wrote: »

What sets are you running? Damage sets? Sustain? Black rose, amberplasm, etc?

Of course, you can sustain with different sets. The potential issue is universal sustainability, not really "I can sustain, therefore it must not be an issue for most other people".

Why on Earth should sustain be "universal"? You mean high damage builds should have sustain at the cost of...nothing?

That's actually the problem.

bowmanz607 · March 2017

apostate9 wrote: »

Ulfgarde wrote: »

What sets are you running? Damage sets? Sustain? Black rose, amberplasm, etc?

Of course, you can sustain with different sets. The potential issue is universal sustainability, not really "I can sustain, therefore it must not be an issue for most other people".

Why on Earth should sustain be "universal"? You mean high damage builds should have sustain at the cost of...nothing?

That's actually the problem.

people are just bad at the game and dont want these nerfs because they dont know how to play. so the people that know how to play must suffer balance issues because of people that cant learn the fundamentals of the game mechanics.