Hush, I have zero points in Warlord already.

FriedEggSandwich · March 2017

I'm gonna need to see some evidence from the op before I waste my time leaning to play. I don't believe a word of it

idk · March 2017

bg22 wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

I see an endless stream of ppl saying that I'm saying "I can do it so everyone can do it" yet they don't see the irony in them saying "I can't do it so you can't do it."

L
2
P

@bg22

We are merely saying you would do lousy dps in PvE. Your argument is rather moot to the larger game considering you merely do burst damage in PvP.

Basically it is get real time.

Set up as I am, yes, I do great burst damage. However I can still comfortably run 15k+ (On a target dummy) sustained indefinitely. Yes that's not a lot, and I get that, but that's kinda the goal that the devs are going for. Also, because of the fact that I stack penetration, I still hit very very hard.

As is, the sustainable DPS ceiling is ridiculously high. So much so that if you're not running BiS as a magicka character, you're basically laughable. And stamina DPS is not welcome in leaderboard runs. This is an attempt, in my opinion, to change that. And I'm a fan.

First, I have run with stam dps for leaderboard runs recently many times. Often there is at least one stam in the group for doing the weeklies. Rarely is one seen in progression groups doing HM due to suitability.

Second, 15k dps on the dummies is not the goal of the devs. I do not think vMoL can be cleared with players that pull an average of 15k on the dummies. One specific mechanic stands in the way. I think vHRC might be impossible as well due to the enrage timer of that fight when all the remaining non gargoyle NPCs spawn.

Third, you admit your dps in PvE is not a lot which, as I have said before, renders this topic moot. The game is not about one activity or another. It is big picture.

Finally, there are many players who are strong in PvE and PvP. They run completely different builds for both activities. Different gear and different CP, not to mention skills.

BRogueNZ · March 2017

dem0n1k wrote: »

How do you get 2k stam recovery & 3.8k weapon damage wearing Spriggans & Clever Alchemist? I'm not doubting!... genuinely interested to know how!

Maybe with drink and the fact that he perhaps uses +regen with his popped alchemist potion

He doesn't need sustain though, he's burst and rarely solo

OrphanHelgen · March 2017

you are not pushing your skills fast enough then. Players with the highest damage, also are faster on their skills. I guess this is a part of the gap they are trying to close between good and bad players.

SnubbS · March 2017

bg22 wrote: »

Ulfgarde wrote: »

What sets are you running? Damage sets? Sustain? Black rose, amberplasm, etc?

Of course, you can sustain with different sets. The potential issue is universal sustainability, not really "I can sustain, therefore it must not be an issue for most other people".

No, this just means you can't have both max DPS and max sustain.

Ya know... Balance. Crazy, I know.

I'm in 5x Heavy Seducer 5x bsw 100 into reduction with two cost reduction glyphs. At that point, I get sustainable sustain—not even great sustain—just good enough to 1vX with. So after the patch I'm supposed to... delete my character?

usmcjdking · March 2017

lol I cannot wait for this change to go live.

Orbital · March 2017

All this is a publicity stunt to have everyone talking about it

Vahrokh · March 2017

bg22 wrote: »

Set up as I am, yes, I do great burst damage. However I can still comfortably run 15k+ (On a target dummy) sustained indefinitely. Yes that's not a lot, and I get that, but that's kinda the goal that the devs are going for. Also, because of the fact that I stack penetration, I still hit very very hard.

As is, the sustainable DPS ceiling is ridiculously high. So much so that if you're not running BiS as a magicka character, you're basically laughable. And stamina DPS is not welcome in leaderboard runs. This is an attempt, in my opinion, to change that. And I'm a fan.

Cool, you are doing about 1/3 of what's the minimum DPS required for some vet trials.

joaaocaampos · March 2017

STOP WHINING!

EldritchPenguin · March 2017

joaaocaampos wrote: »

STOP WHINING!

Thank you so much for this wonderful, eye-opening comment. I'm sure that everyone will take these poorly thought out CP changes with gusto, now that you have graced us with your wise words.

JamieAubrey · March 2017

Warlord: Reduces Stam abiliti....... I have also NEVER used this

usmcjdking · March 2017

Vahrokh wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

Set up as I am, yes, I do great burst damage. However I can still comfortably run 15k+ (On a target dummy) sustained indefinitely. Yes that's not a lot, and I get that, but that's kinda the goal that the devs are going for. Also, because of the fact that I stack penetration, I still hit very very hard.

As is, the sustainable DPS ceiling is ridiculously high. So much so that if you're not running BiS as a magicka character, you're basically laughable. And stamina DPS is not welcome in leaderboard runs. This is an attempt, in my opinion, to change that. And I'm a fan.

Cool, you are doing about 1/3 of what's the minimum DPS required for some vet trials.

No vet trial requires 45k.

iord_stryker · March 2017

Seems to me that the only people this screws are the meta player.
Try something new other than the same 3 builds. Yes they are powerful but they arent the be all and end all of the game

joaaocaampos · March 2017

No, serious! Stop whining. All this is balancing. I know it's hard, but it's all balancing. I know that many players want to be self-sufficient with such resources. But, relax, this happens in most MMOs. Buffs... Nerfs... Balancing... Anyway. I know the ZOS is not doing this to screw with the game in general. The crying is great because it is affecting everyone, including those players (non-tanks) who use Heavy Armor. From now on, these players will start using 7/7 light/medium armor.

Anti_Virus · March 2017

This change needs to go live its about time people make a sacrifice, more damage or more sustain.

alexkdd99 · March 2017

bg22 wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

I see an endless stream of ppl saying that I'm saying "I can do it so everyone can do it" yet they don't see the irony in them saying "I can't do it so you can't do it."

L
2
P

@bg22

We are merely saying you would do lousy dps in PvE. Your argument is rather moot to the larger game considering you merely do burst damage in PvP.

Basically it is get real time.

Set up as I am, yes, I do great burst damage. However I can still comfortably run 15k+ (On a target dummy) sustained indefinitely. Yes that's not a lot, and I get that, but that's kinda the goal that the devs are going for. Also, because of the fact that I stack penetration, I still hit very very hard.

As is, the sustainable DPS ceiling is ridiculously high. So much so that if you're not running BiS as a magicka character, you're basically laughable. And stamina DPS is not welcome in leaderboard runs. This is an attempt, in my opinion, to change that. And I'm a fan.

Lol if that was the true goal it wouldn't take more than 15k dps to complete vmol. Don't come talking about Balance while doing 15k dps. That is beyond low.

Anyone can go make a build with a ton of regen. Being able to competently complete all the content while using that build and not being carried is something else entirely.

Post some evidence of you completing hard content with your build and no cp into warlord/ magician, while not being carried and you might have a leg to stand on.

I can make a build with no cp, and sustain. That doesn't make it good if I'm not pulling my weight.

JinMori · March 2017

joaaocaampos wrote: »

STOP WHINING!

Is this all you can say? You just said something identical on another thread.
Basically what you're saying here is: i don't care what others think of this, but i'm gonna tell them to shut up because i like this change, and it annoys me that other people think otherwise, so basically you are doing exactly what you are telling us not to do, and actually you are doing worse, because at least most here can accept that other people have other opinions.
You are the close minded here.

PathwayM · March 2017

Ya'll youngens may not remember this... But there was a time way back when champion points didn't exist and people knew how to manage their resources... Unbelievable right?

JinMori · March 2017

PathwayM wrote: »

Ya'll youngens may not remember this... But there was a time way back when champion points didn't exist and people knew how to manage their resources... Unbelievable right?

Ability cost have been increased over time since the introduction of cp points, so if they remove a strong sustain component it will go to ***.

bowmanz607 · March 2017

Some people just can't play man. They will continue to yell that they need their infinite resource crutch so they can run full bis dps sets.

I love how people keep saying most don't want this change. What a riot.

bg22 · March 2017

alexkdd99 wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

bg22 wrote: »

I see an endless stream of ppl saying that I'm saying "I can do it so everyone can do it" yet they don't see the irony in them saying "I can't do it so you can't do it."

L
2
P

@bg22

We are merely saying you would do lousy dps in PvE. Your argument is rather moot to the larger game considering you merely do burst damage in PvP.

Basically it is get real time.

Set up as I am, yes, I do great burst damage. However I can still comfortably run 15k+ (On a target dummy) sustained indefinitely. Yes that's not a lot, and I get that, but that's kinda the goal that the devs are going for. Also, because of the fact that I stack penetration, I still hit very very hard.

As is, the sustainable DPS ceiling is ridiculously high. So much so that if you're not running BiS as a magicka character, you're basically laughable. And stamina DPS is not welcome in leaderboard runs. This is an attempt, in my opinion, to change that. And I'm a fan.

Lol if that was the true goal it wouldn't take more than 15k dps to complete vmol. Don't come talking about Balance while doing 15k dps. That is beyond low.

Anyone can go make a build with a ton of regen. Being able to competently complete all the content while using that build and not being carried is something else entirely.

Post some evidence of you completing hard content with your build and no cp into warlord/ magician, while not being carried and you might have a leg to stand on.

I can make a build with no cp, and sustain. That doesn't make it good if I'm not pulling my weight.

My build is setup for solo play at 2k~ regen. A quick and small sacrifice of SOME regen would dramatically increase that DPS and make me more than suitable for group play.

Vahrokh · March 2017

PathwayM wrote: »

Ya'll youngens may not remember this... But there was a time way back when champion points didn't exist and people knew how to manage their resources... Unbelievable right?

I have played in closed beta. Abilities costed much less. ZOS increased the costs exactly to force people to grind CPs so costs would go down again.
Next, they leave the costs and remove the reductions. How smart!

max_only · March 2017

Hey! People who are "deleting their characters" and "quitting the game" once this patch drops, just consider this:

(Under spoiler bc of length)

Can I have your stuff?

I couldn't help myself.

Choosing between sustain or dps is a strategic move, and until I see full final patch notes on what else is changing, I'm not going to get my blood pressure up. Yes it's a strange move but I can't make conclusions without all the facts

Vahrokh · March 2017

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Some people just can't play man. They will continue to yell that they need their infinite resource crutch so they can run full bis dps sets.

I love how people keep saying most don't want this change. What a riot.

Another guy who talks talks talks.

Let's see this set of yours that gives top DPS and also infinite resources. In solo, of course.

Oh, wait, you mean you need a group to get... group buffs?

So what, I do 3 hours trials a week, the remaining 39 I don't have a trial group to back me up, just some terrible random who can barely heal, much less throw proper buffs.

bowmanz607 · March 2017

Vahrokh wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Some people just can't play man. They will continue to yell that they need their infinite resource crutch so they can run full bis dps sets.

I love how people keep saying most don't want this change. What a riot.

Another guy who talks talks talks.

Let's see this set of yours that gives top DPS and also infinite resources. In solo, of course.

Oh, wait, you mean you need a group to get... group buffs?

So what, I do 3 hours trials a week, the remaining 39 I don't have a trial group to back me up, just some terrible random who can barely heal, much less throw proper buffs.

You don't need a group for that sweet cheeks. I'm not talking truald. I'm talking in general.

JinMori · March 2017

Vahrokh wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Some people just can't play man. They will continue to yell that they need their infinite resource crutch so they can run full bis dps sets.

I love how people keep saying most don't want this change. What a riot.

Another guy who talks talks talks.

Let's see this set of yours that gives top DPS and also infinite resources. In solo, of course.

Oh, wait, you mean you need a group to get... group buffs?

So what, I do 3 hours trials a week, the remaining 39 I don't have a trial group to back me up, just some terrible random who can barely heal, much less throw proper buffs.

Yea exactly, bis pve gear is SUPPOSED to be used with group buffs, because you can't sustain without other people.
Being forced to run regen is neither intelligent, neither good for the game, it just pisses off people, and it's less fun, virtually no game forces you to drop damage in favor of sustain, you know why? because it's not fun, and if a game isn't fun to play then we have a serious problem.

Horowonnoe · March 2017

It is just a game. This is not final yet. Everyone chill out. In the scenario that this does go live, everyone has choices:
- Adapt and build a new meta. Git gud.
- Whine forever and do nothing to improve your situation (while providing me with lols)
- Quit the game
- Apply for a job at zos and make a direct impact

P.s I do enjoy these threads so i hope someone keeps making them. Lemme grab more wine and some popcorn. Lol

bowmanz607 · March 2017

JinMori wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Some people just can't play man. They will continue to yell that they need their infinite resource crutch so they can run full bis dps sets.

I love how people keep saying most don't want this change. What a riot.

Another guy who talks talks talks.

Let's see this set of yours that gives top DPS and also infinite resources. In solo, of course.

Oh, wait, you mean you need a group to get... group buffs?

So what, I do 3 hours trials a week, the remaining 39 I don't have a trial group to back me up, just some terrible random who can barely heal, much less throw proper buffs.

Yea exactly, bis pve gear is SUPPOSED to be used with group buffs, because you can't sustain without other people.
Being forced to run regen is neither intelligent, neither good for the game, it just pisses off people, and it's less fun, virtually no game forces you to drop damage in favor of sustain, you know why? because it's not fun, and if a game isn't fun to play then we have a serious problem.

No, in your opinion having to watch your resources is not fun.

The game should not be just spam your attacks for damage and not worry about it. Resource management takes skill and discipline.

Many many people left this game because it was not fun. Why? Because they made the game more and more easy mode which gets worse with more cp.

JinMori · March 2017

Horowonnoe wrote: »

It is just a game. This is not final yet. Everyone chill out. In the scenario that this does go live, everyone has choices:
- Adapt and build a new meta. Git gud.
- Whine forever and do nothing to improve your situation (while providing me with lols)
- Quit the game
- Apply for a job at zos and make a direct impact

P.s I do enjoy these threads so i hope someone keeps making them. Lemme grab more wine and some popcorn. Lol

And what exactly are you contributing to the discussion?

Also whining doesn't quite fit, i call this complaining, and complaining can be good, it's what allows us to make things better by calling out the things that are bad to try to improve them.

So while you sit and grab your popcorns and do absolutely nothing, i will complain about the things that i don't like to try to make them better, with the help of other people.

You are the embodiment of one of the points you made in your post. You are not doing anything to improve the situation.
Might wanna think about it.

JinMori · March 2017

bowmanz607 wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Some people just can't play man. They will continue to yell that they need their infinite resource crutch so they can run full bis dps sets.

I love how people keep saying most don't want this change. What a riot.

Another guy who talks talks talks.

Let's see this set of yours that gives top DPS and also infinite resources. In solo, of course.

Oh, wait, you mean you need a group to get... group buffs?

So what, I do 3 hours trials a week, the remaining 39 I don't have a trial group to back me up, just some terrible random who can barely heal, much less throw proper buffs.

Yea exactly, bis pve gear is SUPPOSED to be used with group buffs, because you can't sustain without other people.
Being forced to run regen is neither intelligent, neither good for the game, it just pisses off people, and it's less fun, virtually no game forces you to drop damage in favor of sustain, you know why? because it's not fun, and if a game isn't fun to play then we have a serious problem.

No, in your opinion having to watch your resources is not fun.

The game should not be just spam your attacks for damage and not worry about it. Resource management takes skill and discipline.

Many many people left this game because it was not fun. Why? Because they made the game more and more easy mode which gets worse with more cp.

The statistics do not agree with you, since this game has much more players then before.
Also as i said before you can't sustain without a group with bis gear in pve, so i don't see the problem.
You wanna tell me that vmol is easy mode? Give me a break.