Losing the best players due to the current end game priority

laksikus · March 2017

WTS [Popcorn]

Ep1kMalware · March 2017

GreenhaloX wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

You don't see 57k on rakkath with meteor catch and backyard running every day.

You are right, we do not see that every day

Certainly haven't seen on PS4.. Xbox?

Don't worry @OrphanHelgen, people leave; come and go all the times, but they'll come back. They always come back. Wait till Morrowind.. you'll see, your "best" players will come back.

Nah. I thought that too. But once you find something else fun to be good at you're gunna keep at it.

Pallio · March 2017

The main problem that Zo$ doesn't seem to understand is that catering the casual player is a death sentence to any game, these are TEMPORARY customers, hard core players that are here because of the Elder Scroll lore/history don't quit games every 2-3mo. when some shiny new ps4 game comes out.

Earelith · March 2017

I came back to the game because of the new crafting bag and housing.. those players you are referring are always the loud minority in all MMOs. MMOs nowdays lose players because they cater to this loud minority instead to the wide audience.

TES fans (which I suppose is the target audience), did not became TES fans because of "endgame" content or the "theorycrafting" but because of the immersive world, the story and the RPG elements of the game.

Thieves guild, Dark Brotherhood, Housing, One Tamriel is what bring people back or new players into the game.. not "endgame" content.

Pallio wrote: »

The main problem that Zo$ doesn't seem to understand is that catering the casual player is a death sentence to any game, these are TEMPORARY customers, hard core players that are here because of the Elder Scroll lore/history don't quit games every 2-3mo. when some shiny new ps4 game comes out.

yea tell this to Wildstar developers.. it seems they did fine by catering to hardcores.. also what the hell Elder Scroll lore/history has to do with "hardcore" or "endgame"??

[Deleted User] · March 2017

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hmsdragonfly · March 2017

Pallio wrote: »

The main problem that Zo$ doesn't seem to understand is that catering the casual player is a death sentence to any game, these are TEMPORARY customers, hard core players that are here because of the Elder Scroll lore/history don't quit games every 2-3mo. when some shiny new ps4 game comes out.

Hardcore competitive end-game players don't care about TES lore.

Bouldercleave · March 2017

Pallio wrote: »

The main problem that Zo$ doesn't seem to understand is that catering the casual player is a death sentence to any game, these are TEMPORARY customers, hard core players that are here because of the Elder Scroll lore/history don't quit games every 2-3mo. when some shiny new ps4 game comes out.

I would take the 90% + Temporary customers over the hardcore players that constantly *** and complain any day of the week.

It's business 101 - You MUST cater to the majority, even if it alienates some of the loyalists. If you lose a small percentage of people but keep a large revolving door of new customers - even temporarily - you remain viable.

The Auto Industry is a good example of this. EVERY time we roll out a new model design, we have a few of the old school loyal clients HATE it. Those people may buy a different brand this time around. But as long as we are creating NEW business that outweighs the loss, we remain in the positive. It sucks sometimes, but that is the reality of it.

Now if they are bleeding loyalists without replenishing them with fresh blood - THAT is a problem.

AhPook_Is_Here · March 2017

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

It's a good thing nobody gives 1 flying *** about your definition of an RPG.

Sadly, this is becoming more and more true. There is a whole generation coming that doesn't know what "RPG" stands for, let alone what it means.

Here's a hint for you. It's an acronym.

If you're not doing what the letters stand for, in some form, then you aren't doing it right.

Rocket Propelled Grenade.

Ep1kMalware · March 2017

Earelith wrote: »

I came back to the game because of the new crafting bag and housing.. those players you are referring are always the loud minority in all MMOs. MMOs nowdays lose players because they cater to this loud minority instead to the wide audience.

TES fans (which I suppose is the target audience), did not became TES fans because of "endgame" content or the "theorycrafting" but because of the immersive world, the story and the RPG elements of the game.

Thieves guild, Dark Brotherhood, Housing, One Tamriel is what bring people back or new players into the game.. not "endgame" content.

Pallio wrote: »

The main problem that Zo$ doesn't seem to understand is that catering the casual player is a death sentence to any game, these are TEMPORARY customers, hard core players that are here because of the Elder Scroll lore/history don't quit games every 2-3mo. when some shiny new ps4 game comes out.

yea tell this to Wildstar developers.. it seems they did fine by catering to hardcores.. also what the hell Elder Scroll lore/history has to do with "hardcore" or "endgame"??

*** said it did dude? It's still an mmo, and many mmo players play mmos to get better and gett psyched about stomping the next content. These players are just as loyal as the ones who play for the lore.

Most players aren't asking for a constant stream of sht to run. Maybe a removal of this bullcrap bind on pickup system or something else they cam farm amd sell to other players as a way to make a living in this game. Hell evn a solid trophy syste, for guild halls/housong.

Atm endgame eso consists of months of farbimg gear foor whatever balance changes and alot of teamwork for a 'there, ya did it'. And absolutely nothing else. In alot of other mmos this is how people made their living.

Honestly I think if they removed bop it'd make a lot of players happy as hell. People cry about vma? Fine, don't run it. But at least you can buy ur vma weapon.

^just an example. Casual player picks up a sharp moondancer sword in his guilds trial run? Cool, he can sell it and work on his house or whatever he fancies. This game has too many dead ends to have a balanced economy system where everyone benefits. I think that's where the op was going with his topic. Everyone loves new content, but once you beat it, then what?

It needs purpose, or a reason to do it again at least. Motifs were a step in the right direction, but when you can farm them at lvl 10 it sort of takes the fun out.

Lylith · March 2017

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Pallio wrote: »

The main problem that Zo$ doesn't seem to understand is that catering the casual player is a death sentence to any game, these are TEMPORARY customers, hard core players that are here because of the Elder Scroll lore/history don't quit games every 2-3mo. when some shiny new ps4 game comes out.

Hardcore competitive end-game players don't care about TES lore.

which demographic is larger and more likely to (continue to) spend cash on the game?

Shad0wfire99 · March 2017

How is anything that us min-maxers want changed or balanced going to affect how roleplayers play this game at all? None of them care about BiS gear, rotations, dps parses, or anything involving combat balance. Seems like some of these people just saw an opportunity to *** on playstyles they don't like, and took it. Kind of like those "elitists" they always gripe about.

Kylric · March 2017

I thought I was reading someone’s obituary…. “…. We lost one of our best players in the game….”

I’ve been playing MMOs for almost 2 decades. Every game has people who are not happy with one aspect or another. People leave – people join. Some return while others never log on again.

IMO, far too many people strive to get max leveled quickly so they can beat the toughest content. When they do, they quickly complain about a lack of things to do. If ZOS added new content every month, people would have something to complain about. That being said, I do feel ZOS tries to focus on various types on content.

Sure, I have some ideas I would like to see implemented, but I don’t feel the developers needs to cater to just my goals. Yes, some crown store items are expensive, but just like when you were all younger. Mommy and daddy could not get you everything you wanted for Christmas. Maybe…. You can’t have it all.

Everyone has ideas on how any game can be improved. I have some great news….. There are plenty of options out there!

Cpt_Teemo · March 2017

It's hard to learn how to play well I struggle with it most of the time, just look

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ud_DiglLimQ

Tandor · March 2017

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I'm more interested in the game catering to its loyal players rather than its best players, assuming that we can even agree on what the latter means.

And who are the loyal players? Those that spend the most money?

No, they're the ones that don't QQ the whole time over this and that. They're the ones the game isn't losing because the game isn't being done in exactly the way they want it to be done.

Dr.NRG · March 2017

This is a good post! I feel the same:( There is almost no progression exept getting even more op in pvp which is lagging so hard at most times that it aint fun anymore. For me the worst thing is rng and farming. I libe to theory craft but am sick and tired of farming. Now if I wanna have a change in this game I will have to farm like crazy again cause im stitting on 6k gold only. Besides that I have not tryed sets like hulking draugr yet and probs never will cause this will take forever as I need weapons and and gold mats for em. Farming a full set like rattlecage or automaton or whatever is such a long grind it aint fun. The biggest problem with that is that most ppl feel the same way for farming these sets so I have solo all these dungeons most times unless a buddy helps me out. That decreases the chances of getting the right traits even more.
Last, vma.... we all know this ine to well. So far I got a sharpened Ice staff afte probs around 150 runs or so. I hate vma but am forced to do it anyways to finalize some of my builds that I then share with frinds and guild members.
Why cant we grind our own gear without wasting days or weeks of farming???
Ever tried farming alloys for dw weapons yourself? Its a huge grind and not fun if you got multiple toons with multiple differnt builds:(
So not gonna log on again unless i got nothing better to do or find an activity in this game I could enjoy. That will probs be battlegrounds but dont know if im gonna spend the money on it since I have been subscribing for so long and as the cost is to high for a game that doesn't work correctly in any area or instance. The game will lag so hard on release and one can porbs not even play the pve content untill a couple month after unless he/she doesnt mind waiting at mobs and running into 100s of other players raiding the whole map.
Ik alot of other ppl feel that way and thus assuming that more and more old gamers will quite and ZOS wint care because they are getting 10 times more new players for eveyone who leave through their marketing campaigns.
I myself do not know if I come back. Every time I do I get frustrated with an hour of playing by lagging out or getting disconected in vma, trials or pvp

Molydeus · March 2017

Woeler wrote: »

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

smithist wrote: »

Can you elaborate on what have thus been nothing but vagueposts? You seem very convinced about something but it's not clear what. I'm actually curious

It's not a complicated concept. ESO is an RPG. If you aren't playing a role in some fashion, then you aren't playing the game right. Sure, people pay their own money and they can play how they want. They can log in and spin in circles for all I care. But the OP has the gall to call people that don't have a role-play bone in their body the "best" players.

Sorry, but no. These players are not the best - no more than a golfer that tries to putt with his nose.

LMAO. Also, I always go throw mudballs at roleplayers in Wayrest when I'm waiting for the raid to start.

I don't roleplay, but you're scum.

Edit: Whoops, cut my post off.

Sarcasm aside, I was a competitive raider for years before coming to ESO. I no longer feel the urge to raid every night like I used to, but I know that if you fail on any of these three things: pve endgame, casualtown, or pvp, you will have a failed game.

rotaugen454 · March 2017

Personally, I am thankful for the min-maxers who take the time to post video and info. Because of them, I saved massive amounts of trial and error, and can now clear content that I struggled with before. If they think the game is out of balance, it is.

nimander99 · March 2017

Bu bye?

makeumrage · March 2017

If have to agree. They will lose alot of eng game players. There going to trade people with over a thousand hours in game and that stay with thr game for people woth about 10 hours in game. Those arent the people that will kee your game alive and catering to those will surely see it fail. This is true for end game pve and pvp. Certaintly with the proposed battlegrounds with no cp. Why on earth theyd do the pvp arena weve been waiting years for at noob level is beyond me. The fact alone that azuruas star hardly ever gets to one bar is witness alone. Noone wants to play it. And noone wants to spend hours in a game to be the same level as someone who plays 4 hours total. Whats the point of playong everyday? It doesnt take long at all to learn the simple rotations in the game so its certaintly not for that.

sickboy2808 · March 2017

Who is leaving?

Dr.NRG · March 2017

makeumrage wrote: »

Whats the point of playong everyday? It doesnt take long at all to learn the simple rotations in the game so its certaintly not for that.

It's simple! Grind grind and grind more! Get frustrated for bad drops, lag and bugs. The community is what really keeps us here. Well there is also that endless hope we all got that the game will get fixed that we got since game drop.

Dr.NRG · March 2017

sickboy2808 wrote: »

Who is leaving?

To many people bro! I lost a lot of good friends due to these issues. Got only 3 good buddies left and they are about to quit too! This sucks!

sickboy2808 · March 2017

Yeah thats too bad that friends have or are about to stop playing. I have also reduced my game time on eso, but for different reasons.

idk · March 2017

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

For my own personal reason I'm staying with the game, is to keep the effort of having stable raid groups, not because I'm always enjoying the end game content itself.

I agree with @IcyDeadPeople that it seems it may be a good time for you to take a break.

alexkdd99 · March 2017

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

Logicbomb00 wrote: »

This is not a good attitude that helps the game in any way. Everyone's entitled to the way they enjoy the game AS LONG AS they respect the way others enjoy the game.

I disagree completely. Min-maxers are the bane of every MMO. If you look through the forums posts, even today's, you will find threads where players are complaining about rudeness in PvP and getting kicked from groups. Who do you think is perpetrating these behaviours? It's the min-maxers - the people who don't grasp the point of RPGs. We're better off without them.

You maybe better off without them. I think the rest of us can decide for ourselves who we will be better off with or without.

I think mmo's would be better without as many whiners and complainers. Only need a couple to get things fixed.

The_Smilemeister · March 2017

Out of the many things this game does well I think there's one thing we can all agree on...

It always fails to disappoint when it comes to conflicts of interest.

Vaoh · March 2017

Logicbomb00 wrote: »

Every group has it's bad eggs and sometimes completely toxic people. You can't generalise because of them. ...

Thank you! lol

I still love joining group finder as a Dro-m'Athra Destroyer and helping players get through dungeons when I want to run pledges or get gear.

hmsdragonfly · March 2017

Lylith wrote: »

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

Pallio wrote: »

The main problem that Zo$ doesn't seem to understand is that catering the casual player is a death sentence to any game, these are TEMPORARY customers, hard core players that are here because of the Elder Scroll lore/history don't quit games every 2-3mo. when some shiny new ps4 game comes out.

Hardcore competitive end-game players don't care about TES lore.

which demographic is larger and more likely to (continue to) spend cash on the game?

The guy said

Pallio wrote: »

The main problem that Zo$ doesn't seem to understand is that catering the casual player is a death sentence to any game, these are TEMPORARY customers, hard core players that are here because of the Elder Scroll lore/history don't quit games every 2-3mo. when some shiny new ps4 game comes out.

I only corrected his mistake.

Pallio · March 2017

Point being if you played all the previous Elder Scrol, you are willing to tolerate a lot of these changes, bugs etc. Grinding vma, the 1/2 a$$ way they roll out stuff with bugs and radical nerfs etc., housing based on the Skyrim housing, with no storage, seriously could have just copied that code too.

If you RP, I have no idea what you care about or specifically keeps you here, pretty trees or something I guess.

Balamoor · March 2017

Maybe the game isn't for you, not every MMO need be raid or die.