Losing the best players due to the current end game priority
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Logicbomb00✭✭✭✭bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »
I disagree completely. Min-maxers are the bane of every MMO. If you look through the forums posts, even today's, you will find threads where players are complaining about rudeness in PvP and getting kicked from groups. Who do you think is perpetrating these behaviours? It's the min-maxers - the people who don't grasp the point of RPGs. We're better off without them.Logicbomb00 wrote: »This is not a good attitude that helps the game in any way. Everyone's entitled to the way they enjoy the game AS LONG AS they respect the way others enjoy the game.
I disagree completely as well. Although endgame min-maxing isn't my thing, I still try and stay competitive enough to enjoy the odd HM dungeon and trial. I'm in a guild where most the players are min-maxers and MOST of them are great people that help the rst of the guild to attain their best as well, and don't mind me tagging along when I want to. Admittedly they're mostly Australians, so maybe that has something to do with it...
Every group has it's bad eggs and sometimes completely toxic people. You can't generalise because of them. The game is here because of everyone playing in different ways and if we could all just respect each other It'd be a wonderful place full of diversity, where home builders could admire the Flawless Conquerers and they could look at awe at our houses and the creativity put into them (and lots of other ways that people play the game).
Anyways. If it wasn't for the min-maxers constantly running dungoens and chewing through my potions, how would I make my money.....
Edited by Logicbomb00 on March 18, 2017 12:23AM5 -
Wollust✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Hence why you gotta pvp. At least it's always somewhat of a challenge to run away from the zergs and the zerg empowering mechanics while end game PvE just sucks these days. Kinda reminds of 1.6 and later patches, where end game PvE was pretty much boring and dead as well.Susano'o
Zerg Squad1 -
bulbousb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Sadly, this is becoming more and more true. There is a whole generation coming that doesn't know what "RPG" stands for, let alone what it means.It's a good thing nobody gives 1 flying *** about your definition of an RPG.
Here's a hint for you. It's an acronym.
If you're not doing what the letters stand for, in some form, then you aren't doing it right.
Lethal zergling9 -
Verbalinkontinenz✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »
I disagree completely. Min-maxers are the bane of every MMO. If you look through the forums posts, even today's, you will find threads where players are complaining about rudeness in PvP and getting kicked from groups. Who do you think is perpetrating these behaviours? It's the min-maxers - the people who don't grasp the point of RPGs. We're better off without them.Logicbomb00 wrote: »This is not a good attitude that helps the game in any way. Everyone's entitled to the way they enjoy the game AS LONG AS they respect the way others enjoy the game.
funny dude. blaming progress players for idiots being idiots.3 -
Tino1008Soul ShrivenSo he is gone for around 1m backyard running as you can see in the video.
330s total fight - 60s outtime = 270s
19.000.000dmg/270s = 70k dps...
Yes i believe.8 -
NiclasFridholm✭✭✭✭About these parses: This is without a doubt one of the most skilled players I have ever played with. I see why people find it hard to believe 57K Runner/Catcher but I had the priviledge of raiding with Failer and seen it myself. I hope there is a video with screenshot showing up soon cause this jelous BS needs to stop. (Although I do enjoy it a tiny bit)
It is truly a great loss to our guild and the game to lose such a great player...Tobias Funke - Magplar since forever0 -
Wollust✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »
I disagree completely. Min-maxers are the bane of every MMO. If you look through the forums posts, even today's, you will find threads where players are complaining about rudeness in PvP and getting kicked from groups. Who do you think is perpetrating these behaviours? It's the min-maxers - the people who don't grasp the point of RPGs. We're better off without them.Logicbomb00 wrote: »This is not a good attitude that helps the game in any way. Everyone's entitled to the way they enjoy the game AS LONG AS they respect the way others enjoy the game.
The bane of every MMO (and I guess pretty much everything else in life) are close-minded people like you that can't accept that there is different ways of enjoying the game.
Susano'o
Zerg Squad18 -
bulbousb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Of course, I will allow that there are different ways of enjoying the game: there is a right way, and there is a wrong way.The bane of every MMO (and I guess pretty much everything else in life) are close-minded people like you that can't accept that there is different ways of enjoying the game.
Lethal zergling2 -
Dagoth_Rac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't understand why they are working so hard to make DPS and sustain go down. Power Creep, as long as it does not get out of hand, is a critical part of any long-lasting game. Do the best players really want to keep clearing VMA and VMOL over and over again for years on end? Do average players really want that content to be out of reach forever? A little bit of sustained power creep, combined with newer content to challenge best players, is an important part of keeping a game fresh. So what if VMA and VMOL are not as brutally difficult as when they came out 1+ years ago? There should be new brutally difficult content within that time frame. The best players will go to that new content. And power creep will open up VMA and VMOL and Veteran Trials (especially hard modes) to players who could never achieve it before. Controlled power creep gives your players new content without actually having to create new content. Seriously, after a year or two, I think it is fine for content to not be the exclusive domain of the absolute top players.
I think this is an overall problem with One Tamriel in general. There seems to be a desire to get everything to a static, unchanging difficulty that lasts forever. And then messing around with player stats and CP and skills to weaken us and keep that content at it's intended difficulty. But older content getting easier as time passes and newer content being much harder is a healthy cycle. ZOS seem to be trying to fight that cycle in some effort to make players and the entire game have little to no progression.
And, even more bizarrely, trying to simultaneously do it to PvE and PvP, despite the play styles being so vastly, vastly different.22 -
Wollust✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »
Of course, I will allow that there are different ways of enjoying the game: there is a right way, and there is a wrong way.The bane of every MMO (and I guess pretty much everything else in life) are close-minded people like you that can't accept that there is different ways of enjoying the game.
Oh my aren't you a generous special oneSusano'o
Zerg Squad8 -
smithist✭✭
Can you elaborate on what have thus been nothing but vagueposts? You seem very convinced about something but it's not clear what. I'm actually curiousbulbousb16_ESO wrote: »
Sadly, this is becoming more and more true. There is a whole generation coming that doesn't know what "RPG" stands for, let alone what it means.It's a good thing nobody gives 1 flying *** about your definition of an RPG.
Here's a hint for you. It's an acronym.
If you're not doing what the letters stand for, in some form, then you aren't doing it right.0 -
bulbousb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
It's not a complicated concept. ESO is an RPG. If you aren't playing a role in some fashion, then you aren't playing the game right. Sure, people pay their own money and they can play how they want. They can log in and spin in circles for all I care. But the OP has the gall to call people that don't have a role-play bone in their body the "best" players.Can you elaborate on what have thus been nothing but vagueposts? You seem very convinced about something but it's not clear what. I'm actually curious
Sorry, but no. These players are not the best - no more than a golfer that tries to putt with his nose.
Lethal zergling2 -
Woeler✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »
It's not a complicated concept. ESO is an RPG. If you aren't playing a role in some fashion, then you aren't playing the game right. Sure, people pay their own money and they can play how they want. They can log in and spin in circles for all I care. But the OP has the gall to call people that don't have a role-play bone in their body the "best" players.Can you elaborate on what have thus been nothing but vagueposts? You seem very convinced about something but it's not clear what. I'm actually curious
Sorry, but no. These players are not the best - no more than a golfer that tries to putt with his nose.
I heard the new raid coming with Morrowind was implemented just to trigger you.
In all seriousness, at least, for as far as that is still possible
LMAO. Also, I always go throw mudballs at roleplayers in Wayrest when I'm waiting for the raid to start.Edited by Woeler on March 18, 2017 1:08AM5 -
Ep1kMalware✭✭✭✭✭
✭bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »
These are not the "best" players. You're talking about min-maxers, here. The kind of people that don't understand MMORPGs to begin with.OrphanHelgen wrote: »We just lost one of our best players because of disconnects and end game priorities. Customer supports are not taken seriously. It's almost like the answer are auto replies based on the subject. The best players will keep dropping out. If game continues like this, the meta will have a lower standard.
Good riddance.
You sound jelly3 -
Ep1kMalware✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'd justmlike to pointnout that the topic of thisnthread appeared to be aimed at zos fr nt taking care of glaring gameplay issues. Judging by where the comments are comming from and where they're aimed at with non-sequitar appreaches to incite megative feedback we csn really see where the 'toxicity' of the playerbase is comming from.2 -
bulbousb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Hahaha, happy St. Patrick's Day.... it sounds like you're having a good one!Ep1kMalware wrote: »I'd justmlike to pointnout that the topic of thisnthread appeared to be aimed at zos fr nt taking care of glaring gameplay issues. Judging by where the comments are comming from and where they're aimed at with non-sequitar appreaches to incite megative feedback we csn really see where the 'toxicity' of the playerbase is comming from.Lethal zergling3 -
Ep1kMalware✭✭✭✭✭
✭bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »
Hahaha, happy St. Patrick's Day.... it sounds like you're having a good one!Ep1kMalware wrote: »I'd justmlike to pointnout that the topic of thisnthread appeared to be aimed at zos fr nt taking care of glaring gameplay issues. Judging by where the comments are comming from and where they're aimed at with non-sequitar appreaches to incite megative feedback we csn really see where the 'toxicity' of the playerbase is comming from.
No, just a crappy mobile keyboard
1 -
MaxwellC✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@OrphanHelgen
Yup I get you mate, I've been lacking the will to play lately. I just hop on do some writs maybe a pledge or two then hop off; normally I would want to stay and do something else but what should I do? PvP is boring AF and only gives me headaches with the lag that is present as if it is a feature... oh wait.
There hasn't been anything new with the DK class or any class in terms of new skills I mean isn't it almost like 3 years since this game came out and yet no new class has a new skill; yeah balance is an issue but jeez you'd think something new would have been out by now. Right now I'm waiting for a new game or if MS decides to finally bring FFXIV to consoles then I'll most likely dip as they have new content and plus quantity wise in terms of content in general quite sure FFXIV beats this game.不動の Steadfast - Unwavering
XBL Gamer Tag - Maxwell
XB1 Maxwell Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Redguard Stamina DK
XB1 Max Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Brenton Magicka DK
PC Maxwell-Crystal - NA DC - CP 200+ Brenton Magicka DK 「Retired」Band Camp statements: To state "But this one time I saw X doing X... so that justifies X" Refers to the Band camp statement.
Coined by Maxwell1 -
Aliyavana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »
These are not the "best" players. You're talking about min-maxers, here. The kind of people that don't understand MMORPGs to begin with.OrphanHelgen wrote: »We just lost one of our best players because of disconnects and end game priorities. Customer supports are not taken seriously. It's almost like the answer are auto replies based on the subject. The best players will keep dropping out. If game continues like this, the meta will have a lower standard.
Good riddance.
End game content is best played with min/maxing, if someone wants to play a snowflake build that's performs poorly then they cant expect min/maxers to suffer for it... that's why many people on here complain about being kicked from groups from underperforming. Being kicked before dungeons even begin is another story.bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »
It's not a complicated concept. ESO is an RPG. If you aren't playing a role in some fashion, then you aren't playing the game right. Sure, people pay their own money and they can play how they want. They can log in and spin in circles for all I care. But the OP has the gall to call people that don't have a role-play bone in their body the "best" players.Can you elaborate on what have thus been nothing but vagueposts? You seem very convinced about something but it's not clear what. I'm actually curious
Sorry, but no. These players are not the best - no more than a golfer that tries to putt with his nose.
I heard the new raid coming with Morrowind was implemented just to trigger you.
In all seriousness, at least, for as far as that is still possible
LMAO. Also, I always go throw mudballs at roleplayers in Wayrest when I'm waiting for the raid to start.
Hey! whats wrong with roleplayer?0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »
I disagree completely. Min-maxers are the bane of every MMO. If you look through the forums posts, even today's, you will find threads where players are complaining about rudeness in PvP and getting kicked from groups. Who do you think is perpetrating these behaviours? It's the min-maxers - the people who don't grasp the point of RPGs. We're better off without them.Logicbomb00 wrote: »This is not a good attitude that helps the game in any way. Everyone's entitled to the way they enjoy the game AS LONG AS they respect the way others enjoy the game.
Minmaxers are people who put more effort into a game, and that's fine. And there are good reasons to kick someone from a group, for example if the guy is not doing his/her job, and because of that he's ruining the fun of everyone.
I think that's a good reason to kick someone. If you can;'t accept that then that's your problem, not everyone else's problem.
let's put it in a more real context, let's say that you were a cook, and because of you the service is slowing down, in this case you either get better, or *** off, and get fired, this is the exact same thing.
0 -
Nebthet78✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The problem is, is that these changes are not going to hurt the elite players nearly as much as it is going to hurt the end game players who can just barely make it due to either playing with the sets they like or having physical limitations that prevent them from being able to do things like animation cancelling or swapping bars as quickly as other people.
I know as an end game player, I'm tired of feeling like I haven't f'n progressed what so ever in the last year or more due to all the nerfs they've made to the CP tree. No sooner do I get back to where I was, then just ahead a little bit, they knock me back the f -down three places. Who the hell wants to keep playing a damn game where they feel like they aren't progressing? I sure in the hells don't! I've cancelled my Morrowind preorder (it was the physical CE too). The hell with this crap.. not spending any more money on this game.Far too many characters to list any more.14 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Also, sometimes people seem to forget that mmo, means that you are playing with other people, which means that the rules are not the same as a single player game.
In a single player game others won't give a *** how badly you play, but in a mmo if you play too badly, and stand in other people's way because of it, then you are dead weight, and dead weight get's kicked from groups.
Sometime ago i did an icp run.
i'm kinda of a minmaxer, not an exeptional player, but a pretty good one.
There were 2 dudes that were your average player, and one that was absolutely terrible, spamming light attack on both aoe and single target fights and using his ulti when it popped up (sometimes).
Guess what happened, we initiated a vote kick, and he was kicked.
Edited by JinMori on March 18, 2017 2:26AM2 -
jircris11✭✭✭✭✭
✭OrphanHelgen wrote: »Champion points were implemented to make the end game players constantly get the feeling of progression. A way to balance this, is to keep coming up with new and challenging content. Players who did not complete content like Vmol and maelstrom arena, will have a better chance with time, and those who do not feel this is demanding enough after a while, will get new challenges.
Meanwhile, the priority have been heading in the direction of the more casual part of the game. Housing, decoration, motifs and general everything related to crown store. 16k crowns for a few square meters of space and crown crates.
Meanwhile, to "balance" end game together for more demanding players and CP, we are getting cheap solutions like increase hp on monsters and nerf stats and sustain to keep us busy. I haven't felt real character progression in over a year.
For my own personal reason I'm staying with the game, is to keep the effort of having stable raid groups, not because I'm always enjoying the end game content itself.
I'm sitting here waiting patiently for some changes, and really hope the balance and raiding with Morrowind will be better than the current situation.
There have also been alot of suggestions how small changes could change the end game, with more reasons to do high scores as well as calling it "season" instead of current "leaderboard whipes".
We just lost one of our best players because of disconnects and end game priorities. Customer supports are not taken seriously. It's almost like the answer are auto replies based on the subject. The best players will keep dropping out. If game continues like this, the meta will have a lower standard. Even though the money income are so insane on the crown store and new players, I think investing more in end gaming would give more stable players and a better reputation among the whole gaming community.
Gonna link a video of a player we just lost because of the end game priority. You don't see 57k on rakkath with meteor catch and backyard running every day. Will also post same player on Rakotu with 61k dps single target. Limits are infinite. Impossible is nothing. Haters gonna hate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgZjIjG8H5A&feature=youtu.be
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/5zyvt0/pceu_magicka_sorc_61k_singletarget_dps/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G67tfKjCp8w&lc=z12dj3iohzycjbm2b22ocrvhslqavveuk.1489778508741878
i am sorry, but "best players" those are the people who play the game and have fun, the oens who help and do not troll, the ones who make the game an enjoyable environment. THOSE are the best players. What you talk about are people who have done countless hours of math and build work who can NOW press a button and win. Those are not "the best" they are average at best, In fact if you ask most of them about the game they can't answer outside of pvp.
Now i -do- know some people who create builds for others such as my self who enjoy PVE over PVP. Once again they fall in to the "helpful" section of "best player". I am so tired of hearing/reading about how eso is losing the "best" when it is not true. these people are good at one thing pvp, and all pvp does is breed hatred and salt hence why people constantly make "x skill OP pls nerf" threads.IGN: Ki'rah
Khajiit/Vampire
DC/AD faction/NA server.
RPer9 -
Logicbomb00✭✭✭✭Ep1kMalware wrote: »I'd justmlike to pointnout that the topic of thisnthread appeared to be aimed at zos fr nt taking care of glaring gameplay issues. Judging by where the comments are comming from and where they're aimed at with non-sequitar appreaches to incite megative feedback we csn really see where the 'toxicity' of the playerbase is comming from.
Hey I tried!! I really did. But yeah. These are the problems we face. Roleplayers regarding min-maxers as toxicity, and min-maxers throwing mudballs at the roleplayers. Round and round it goes.
I'll try and say it one last time before I throw my hands up in the air. If it weren't for every single one of us, no matter how we play the game, then the game would not exist. The home building types and roleplayers are the ones spending crowns to keep the game financed, the 'min-maxers' are there to get the loot and contribute to the in game economy. The crafters and traders keep the min-maxers AND the home builders / roleplayers in gear, potions and furniture. Without every single component the game would fall apart. And here we are bickering like children, and flat out inciting negative attitudes towards each other with our actions.
/sadface
Edited by Logicbomb00 on March 18, 2017 4:47AM9 -
Logicbomb00✭✭✭✭Also, sometimes people seem to forget that mmo, means that you are playing with other people, which means that the rules are not the same as a single player game.
In a single player game others won't give a *** how badly you play, but in a mmo if you play too badly, and stand in other people's way because of it, then you are dead weight, and dead weight get's kicked from groups.
Sometime ago i did an icp run.
i'm kinda of a minmaxer, not an exeptional player, but a pretty good one.
There were 2 dudes that were your average player, and one that was absolutely terrible, spamming light attack on both aoe and single target fights and using his ulti when it popped up (sometimes).
Guess what happened, we initiated a vote kick, and he was kicked.
Did anyone offer to spend like 15 minutes of their entire life trying to help this guy out? We ran with a 70+ year old guy who did the same thing, but he didn't know any better. Once the concepts of dps rotations were explained and what skills might best suit his lack of motor functions he went away and worked on it and became a 'better' player. This poor fellow who it SOUNDS like you just booted now has had an NPE, a boardgame term that means Negative Play Experience. And that can seriously effect someones attitude towards a certain group of people or the game itself. Be a man / woman. Step up and offer people help when they so desperately need it.
Edited by Logicbomb00 on March 18, 2017 4:46AM14 -
hmsdragonfly✭✭✭✭✭
✭bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »
It's not a complicated concept. ESO is an RPG. If you aren't playing a role in some fashion, then you aren't playing the game right. Sure, people pay their own money and they can play how they want. They can log in and spin in circles for all I care. But the OP has the gall to call people that don't have a role-play bone in their body the "best" players.Can you elaborate on what have thus been nothing but vagueposts? You seem very convinced about something but it's not clear what. I'm actually curious
Sorry, but no. These players are not the best - no more than a golfer that tries to putt with his nose.
I heard the new raid coming with Morrowind was implemented just to trigger you.
In all seriousness, at least, for as far as that is still possible
LMAO. Also, I always go throw mudballs at roleplayers in Wayrest when I'm waiting for the raid to start.
But you are a roleplayer! Who in the right mind would choose a Khajiit Dragon Knight tank? Roleplayer!Aldmeri Dominion Loyalist. For the Queen!2 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Logicbomb00 wrote: »Also, sometimes people seem to forget that mmo, means that you are playing with other people, which means that the rules are not the same as a single player game.
In a single player game others won't give a *** how badly you play, but in a mmo if you play too badly, and stand in other people's way because of it, then you are dead weight, and dead weight get's kicked from groups.
Sometime ago i did an icp run.
i'm kinda of a minmaxer, not an exeptional player, but a pretty good one.
There were 2 dudes that were your average player, and one that was absolutely terrible, spamming light attack on both aoe and single target fights and using his ulti when it popped up (sometimes).
Guess what happened, we initiated a vote kick, and he was kicked.
Did anyone offer to spend like 15 minutes of their entire life trying to help this guy out? We ran with a 70+ year old guy who did the same thing, but he didn't know any better. Once the concepts of dps rotations were explained and what skills might best suit his lack of motor functions he went away and worked on it and became a 'better' player. This poor fellow who it SOUNDS like you just booted now has had an NPE, a boardgame term that means Negative Play Experience. And that can seriously effect someones attitude towards a certain group of people or the game itself. Be a man / woman. Step up and offer people help when they so desperately need it.
Iv'e got tired of doing it seen that the results. Most times they aren't very good.
Also i believe that if you wanna get good, you should be the one to do the first step, you shouldn't expect people to do that work for you.
Maybe if someone enters a dungeon without knowing even the basics, maybe he or she..... just doesn't give a single ***? How about that?
Because if you were interested in doing at least decently you would look for some information.
All the information you need are on the internet, just go look for them, if you do at least that, and learn the basics people will be much more willing to help you out, because at least you took the initiative to look for the basics.Edited by JinMori on March 18, 2017 5:19AM0 -
Logicbomb00✭✭✭✭Logicbomb00 wrote: »Also, sometimes people seem to forget that mmo, means that you are playing with other people, which means that the rules are not the same as a single player game.
In a single player game others won't give a *** how badly you play, but in a mmo if you play too badly, and stand in other people's way because of it, then you are dead weight, and dead weight get's kicked from groups.
Sometime ago i did an icp run.
i'm kinda of a minmaxer, not an exeptional player, but a pretty good one.
There were 2 dudes that were your average player, and one that was absolutely terrible, spamming light attack on both aoe and single target fights and using his ulti when it popped up (sometimes).
Guess what happened, we initiated a vote kick, and he was kicked.
Did anyone offer to spend like 15 minutes of their entire life trying to help this guy out? We ran with a 70+ year old guy who did the same thing, but he didn't know any better. Once the concepts of dps rotations were explained and what skills might best suit his lack of motor functions he went away and worked on it and became a 'better' player. This poor fellow who it SOUNDS like you just booted now has had an NPE, a boardgame term that means Negative Play Experience. And that can seriously effect someones attitude towards a certain group of people or the game itself. Be a man / woman. Step up and offer people help when they so desperately need it.
Iv'e got tired of doing it seen that the results. Most times they aren't very good.
Also i believe that if you wanna get good, you should be the one to do the first step, you shouldn't expect people to do that work for you.
Maybe if someone enters a dungeon without knowing even the basics, maybe he or she..... just doesn't give a single ***? How about that?
Because if you were interested in doing at least decently you would look for some information.
Yeah I can get that, but the guys you're kicking are probably like me. A bit of both worlds. Want to run the dungeon content but approach the game as a 'roleplayer'. I have never in my life watched a single Youtube clip or read a guide on how to play a style or dungeon...no, wait... I did for VMA - haha - that *** was too nasty to learn... because I didn't want the enjoyment I / we get from the storyline aspect or 'in the role' experience to be *spoiler alerted*. It took me some time to learn / be taught what I was doing wrong and I listened to what 'my characters' (if you will but I'm not that crazy) heard from the 'Ye Ol' GuildAndZoneChat Pub' and I can complete all the HM content now (except a couple of revamped trials).
The first time I ran MoL was with a more serious group (their first time too). I was astonished that they skipped through the storyline without any interest in what the khajiit had to say. They knew what had to be done and knew how to do it from online. They had to wait for me all the way through (but were mates and know that's just me).
I did though just soak in that you said it was an ICP run, and the problem of DLC pledges and One Tamriel is that players can just accidentally jump into the hardest 4 man dungeons there are. In the past if you went into ICP with the experience and powerlevel gained till you were V2 you just flat out got slaughtered. Not now and that's not a good thing. I dunno. I would've just maybe shown him the mechanics of the first boss and said hey dude, try Spindle Clutch first yah? Git Gud!!
Edited by Logicbomb00 on March 18, 2017 5:41AM3