Losing the best players due to the current end game priority

OrphanHelgen

Champion points were implemented to make the end game players constantly get the feeling of progression. A way to balance this, is to keep coming up with new and challenging content. Players who did not complete content like Vmol and maelstrom arena, will have a better chance with time, and those who do not feel this is demanding enough after a while, will get new challenges.

Meanwhile, the priority have been heading in the direction of the more casual part of the game. Housing, decoration, motifs and general everything related to crown store. 16k crowns for a few square meters of space and crown crates.
Meanwhile, to "balance" end game together for more demanding players and CP, we are getting cheap solutions like increase hp on monsters and nerf stats and sustain to keep us busy. I haven't felt real character progression in over a year.

For my own personal reason I'm staying with the game, is to keep the effort of having stable raid groups, not because I'm always enjoying the end game content itself.
I'm sitting here waiting patiently for some changes, and really hope the balance and raiding with Morrowind will be better than the current situation.
There have also been alot of suggestions how small changes could change the end game, with more reasons to do high scores as well as calling it "season" instead of current "leaderboard whipes".

We just lost one of our best players because of disconnects and end game priorities. Customer supports are not taken seriously. It's almost like the answer are auto replies based on the subject. The best players will keep dropping out. If game continues like this, the meta will have a lower standard. Even though the money income are so insane on the crown store and new players, I think investing more in end gaming would give more stable players and a better reputation among the whole gaming community.

Gonna link a video of a player we just lost because of the end game priority. You don't see 57k on rakkath with meteor catch and backyard running every day. Will also post same player on Rakotu with 61k dps single target. Limits are infinite. Impossible is nothing. Haters gonna hate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgZjIjG8H5A&feature=youtu.be

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/5zyvt0/pceu_magicka_sorc_61k_singletarget_dps/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G67tfKjCp8w&lc=z12dj3iohzycjbm2b22ocrvhslqavveuk.1489778508741878

Alcast

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

You don't see 57k on rakkath with meteor catch and backyard running every day.

You are right, we do not see that every day

Shalnark

Alcast, we all have to L2P! 57k as runner and decoy? easy peasy lemon squeezy

modaretto

Shalnark wrote: »

Alcast, we all have to L2P! 57k as runner and decoy? easy peasy lemon squeezy

true story never too late

IcyDeadPeople

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

For my own personal reason I'm staying with the game, is to keep the effort of having stable raid groups, not because I'm always enjoying the end game content itself.

If you are not enjoying it anymore, maybe it's better to take a break. ESO will still be there if you want to play again in a few months.

Logicbomb00

Firstly I'm sad to hear that anyone has left the game, and for the loss the game has suffered because of it.

But while I agree with you that endgamers need to be catered for, there needs to be a balance. Your definition of 'best players' and 'meta' are standardised by how YOU enjoy the game. It's quite possible I've never even heard of the player you're referring to and I'm not a new player.

I have a friend who has come back from beta solely BECAUSE of the thieves guild and housing expansions. He's had the game for over 3 years and is still a level 38 Khajjit Skooma addict with a den now that he can build and stuff he can pinch to pay for his habit. In my opinion he is one of the 'best players' in the game because he's always friendly, always happy, and loves the game as it is now. We 'lost' him a long time ago due to the lack of the old Elder Scrolls feel, but now he's back.

There's many sides to the story, and many definitions of 'best players', and although like I said the endgame does seriously need some attention, it's not all about that and expansions like housing and storylines need their love as well.


P.S. Oh yeah. Customer Support is pretty dismal so there we see eye to eye

OrphanHelgen

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

For my own personal reason I'm staying with the game, is to keep the effort of having stable raid groups, not because I'm always enjoying the end game content itself.

If you are not enjoying it anymore, maybe it's better to take a break. ESO will still be there if you want to play again in a few months.

Yeah, I usually only do writs and regular raiding. I stopped dungeons and farming. Been playing abit skyrim reworked lately and some real life nature

IronCrystal

Logicbomb00 wrote: »

Firstly I'm sad to hear that anyone has left the game, and for the loss the game has suffered because of it.

But while I agree with you that endgamers need to be catered for, there needs to be a balance. Your definition of 'best players' and 'meta' are standardised by how YOU enjoy the game. It's quite possible I've never even heard of the player you're referring to and I'm not a new player.

I have a friend who has come back from beta solely BECAUSE of the thieves guild and housing expansions. He's had the game for over 3 years and is still a level 38 Khajjit Skooma addict with a den now that he can build and stuff he can pinch to pay for his habit. In my opinion he is one of the 'best players' in the game because he's always friendly, always happy, and loves the game as it is now. We 'lost' him a long time ago due to the lack of the old Elder Scrolls feel, but now he's back.

There's many sides to the story, and many definitions of 'best players', and although like I said the endgame does seriously need some attention, it's not all about that and expansions like housing and storylines need their love as well.


P.S. Oh yeah. Customer Support is pretty dismal so there we see eye to eye

Why do people always think that meta is a choice? Raiders are just like "this patch I'd like to try out BSW" and bam its meta.

They do loads of testing and theory crafting and find what works best, not what their favorite is.

Logicbomb00

IronCrystal wrote: »

Logicbomb00 wrote: »

Firstly I'm sad to hear that anyone has left the game, and for the loss the game has suffered because of it.

But while I agree with you that endgamers need to be catered for, there needs to be a balance. Your definition of 'best players' and 'meta' are standardised by how YOU enjoy the game. It's quite possible I've never even heard of the player you're referring to and I'm not a new player.

I have a friend who has come back from beta solely BECAUSE of the thieves guild and housing expansions. He's had the game for over 3 years and is still a level 38 Khajjit Skooma addict with a den now that he can build and stuff he can pinch to pay for his habit. In my opinion he is one of the 'best players' in the game because he's always friendly, always happy, and loves the game as it is now. We 'lost' him a long time ago due to the lack of the old Elder Scrolls feel, but now he's back.

There's many sides to the story, and many definitions of 'best players', and although like I said the endgame does seriously need some attention, it's not all about that and expansions like housing and storylines need their love as well.


P.S. Oh yeah. Customer Support is pretty dismal so there we see eye to eye

Why do people always think that meta is a choice? Raiders are just like "this patch I'd like to try out BSW" and bam its meta.

They do loads of testing and theory crafting and find what works best, not what their favorite is.

But there's also lots of definitions of 'meta'. What you're referring to is the endgame 'meta', but to a thief the 'meta' might be something like Nights Silence and Night Mothers (the sneak reduction version).

Rohamad_Ali

I'm in the middle of a Cyrodiil loading screen so I came here to read . At least I hope it's the middle .

Woeler

Alcast wrote: »

You are right, we do not see that every day

Alkahest Alcast pls. I pull 60 on my tank, and I run outside, two times.

Verbalinkontinenz

Woeler wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

You are right, we do not see that every day

Alkahest Alcast pls. I pull 60 on my tank, and I run outside, two times.

noob.

bulbousb16_ESO

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

We just lost one of our best players because of disconnects and end game priorities. Customer supports are not taken seriously. It's almost like the answer are auto replies based on the subject. The best players will keep dropping out. If game continues like this, the meta will have a lower standard.

These are not the "best" players. You're talking about min-maxers, here. The kind of people that don't understand MMORPGs to begin with.

Good riddance.

Tasear

It would be interesting...To see a video of dark brotherhood assains or thieves. Maybe even angry craglorn farming though wasps aren't OP anymore.

Shadzilla

Also losing a fair amount of top tier players due to this games PvE magicka only dps. Stamina is so far behind in every aspect. I have been playing since launch and I can only remember 2 patches where stamina was considered better dps. the other 90% of this games life its either magicka dps, or dont come.

OrphanHelgen

Woeler wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

You are right, we do not see that every day

Alkahest Alcast pls. I pull 60 on my tank, and I run outside, two times.

First I took it as a compliment. Then I got annoyed. Now I just enjoy the salt I'm usually a nice guy who respect most players, but when I see end game players so stubborn, it made me add the videos to this post to rub things in. You guys have the scores, you have the knowned names, we have the dps. Deal with it.

Woeler

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

You are right, we do not see that every day

Alkahest Alcast pls. I pull 60 on my tank, and I run outside, two times.

First I took it as a compliment. Then I got annoyed. Now I just enjoy the salt I'm usually a nice guy who respect most players, but when I see end game players so stubborn, it made me add the videos to this post to rub things in. You guys have the scores, you have the knowned names, we have the dps. Deal with it.

I'm just laughing this guy refuses to share combat metrics screenshots of parses that make everyone scratch behind their ears, but does share one of a Rakotu parse that is nothing that special.

Simply share a combat metrics screenshot of one of these amazing parses and you will have us all shut up for ever. But they are not shared. For whatever reason, and my riddance is the reason is that they don't add up.

And this is nothing personal whatsoever. If a random guy walks up to me and shows me a picture of a Ferarri and says "This is my ferarri." and I will say, "Cool, show it to me", reply "Nah dude, why don't you just believe me?". Makes stories hard to believe. Anyone can pull out their MScalculator and make some numbers add up in the chatbox. Manipulating the actual combat metrics data is a little bit harder. Same with the Ferarri, you will not get to show it, unless you actually are the owner.

OrphanHelgen

Woeler wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

You are right, we do not see that every day

Alkahest Alcast pls. I pull 60 on my tank, and I run outside, two times.

First I took it as a compliment. Then I got annoyed. Now I just enjoy the salt I'm usually a nice guy who respect most players, but when I see end game players so stubborn, it made me add the videos to this post to rub things in. You guys have the scores, you have the knowned names, we have the dps. Deal with it.

I'm just laughing this guy refuses to share combat metrics screenshots of parses that make everyone scratch behind their ears, but does share one of a Rakotu parse that is nothing that special.

Simply share a combat metrics screenshot of one of these amazing parses and you will have us all shut up for ever. But they are not shared. For whatever reason, and my riddance is the reason is that they don't add up.

Yeah we might try tomorrow and give you all every single details we have
This is something we came up with in 24 hours. Hoping it would be enough.

Cadbury

Hmm. Elitist versus elitist battle.

Who is Deadliest?

Woeler

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

You are right, we do not see that every day

Alkahest Alcast pls. I pull 60 on my tank, and I run outside, two times.

First I took it as a compliment. Then I got annoyed. Now I just enjoy the salt I'm usually a nice guy who respect most players, but when I see end game players so stubborn, it made me add the videos to this post to rub things in. You guys have the scores, you have the knowned names, we have the dps. Deal with it.

I'm just laughing this guy refuses to share combat metrics screenshots of parses that make everyone scratch behind their ears, but does share one of a Rakotu parse that is nothing that special.

Simply share a combat metrics screenshot of one of these amazing parses and you will have us all shut up for ever. But they are not shared. For whatever reason, and my riddance is the reason is that they don't add up.

Yeah we might try tomorrow and give you all every single details we have
This is something we came up with in 24 hours. Hoping it would be enough.

I'll be glad to be proven wrong.

OrphanHelgen

Cadbury wrote: »

Hmm. Elitist versus elitist battle.

Who is Deadliest?

This actually made me smile

Shalnark

modaretto wrote: »

Shalnark wrote: »

Alcast, we all have to L2P! 57k as runner and decoy? easy peasy lemon squeezy

true story never too late

don't get me wrong.. with L2P, i meant learn to post (DPS)!

Logicbomb00

Oh dear. Please don't let this conversation go this way.

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

We just lost one of our best players because of disconnects and end game priorities. Customer supports are not taken seriously. It's almost like the answer are auto replies based on the subject. The best players will keep dropping out. If game continues like this, the meta will have a lower standard.

These are not the "best" players. You're talking about min-maxers, here. The kind of people that don't understand MMORPGs to begin with.

Good riddance.

This is not a good attitude that helps the game in any way. Everyone's entitled to the way they enjoy the game AS LONG AS they respect the way others enjoy the game.

Tasear wrote: »

It would be interesting...To see a video of dark brotherhood assains or thieves. Maybe even angry craglorn farming though wasps aren't OP anymore.

I was actually thinking of doing this! When I was farming TG and DB dailies I got them down to under 3 minutes per Heist / Sacrament on 8 alts. Was going to show how fast you could do the entire thing and how much loot / many motifs you could get in less than half an hour. Maybe I will one day.

mrfrontman

I really don't understand why CP is being removed/changed when there is specifically a whole Cyrodill dedicated to people who want to play without CP.

If that's what we all wanted, we'd obviously be choosing no-CP Cyrodill over all the others.

Why change something that is so openly obvious you couldn't make it any more clear if it smacked you in the head with a brick?

OrphanHelgen

Logicbomb00 wrote: »

Firstly I'm sad to hear that anyone has left the game, and for the loss the game has suffered because of it.

But while I agree with you that endgamers need to be catered for, there needs to be a balance. Your definition of 'best players' and 'meta' are standardised by how YOU enjoy the game. It's quite possible I've never even heard of the player you're referring to and I'm not a new player.

I have a friend who has come back from beta solely BECAUSE of the thieves guild and housing expansions. He's had the game for over 3 years and is still a level 38 Khajjit Skooma addict with a den now that he can build and stuff he can pinch to pay for his habit. In my opinion he is one of the 'best players' in the game because he's always friendly, always happy, and loves the game as it is now. We 'lost' him a long time ago due to the lack of the old Elder Scrolls feel, but now he's back.

There's many sides to the story, and many definitions of 'best players', and although like I said the endgame does seriously need some attention, it's not all about that and expansions like housing and storylines need their love as well.


P.S. Oh yeah. Customer Support is pretty dismal so there we see eye to eye

You are right. There are so many ways of being best player and reason to leave. In my opinion and way to enjoy the game, it's purely based on performance, and the social part of the game are less interesting for me. Don't get me wrong, I am still a decent guy IRL, I just simply don't play based on the fact to have people around me, allthough thats ofc a nice bonus

It might be a bit selfish to say I want it the way I like it, but my main point was that I don't think it would ruin ESO by having more focus on end game and hard content. Maelstrom arena got alot of hate on that release, but I know for a fact that many players stayed in ESO because of that, and Vmol as well. These players also make youtube video and twitch streaming and help community growing. Allthough it might be fun to watch a level 38 khajiit building a house, I think the end game are attracting players as well.

So long story short, since I personal enjoy these content the most, obviously I try to promote it as well, which is why I made a post about it to try to make some clear reasons as well as attention to the subject. The videos at the end was not nescesary, but thats another story

Tandor

I'm more interested in the game catering to its loyal players rather than its best players, assuming that we can even agree on what the latter means.

Glamdring

As in any game/sport its crucial to have eliteplayers, its them who drive the game forward and push the limits. If ZoS continue to cater mostly for the casual crownbuyer the game will die.

bulbousb16_ESO

Logicbomb00 wrote: »

This is not a good attitude that helps the game in any way. Everyone's entitled to the way they enjoy the game AS LONG AS they respect the way others enjoy the game.

I disagree completely. Min-maxers are the bane of every MMO. If you look through the forums posts, even today's, you will find threads where players are complaining about rudeness in PvP and getting kicked from groups. Who do you think is perpetrating these behaviours? It's the min-maxers - the people who don't grasp the point of RPGs. We're better off without them.

Turelus

And nothing of value was lost.

bg22

Woeler wrote: »

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

Logicbomb00 wrote: »

This is not a good attitude that helps the game in any way. Everyone's entitled to the way they enjoy the game AS LONG AS they respect the way others enjoy the game.

I disagree completely. Min-maxers are the bane of every MMO. If you look through the forums posts, even today's, you will find threads where players are complaining about rudeness in PvP and getting kicked from groups. Who do you think is perpetrating these behaviours? It's the min-maxers - the people who don't grasp the point of RPGs. We're better off without them.

It's a good thing nobody gives 1 flying *** about your definition of an RPG.

The pot calling the kettle black.

Glamdring

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

Logicbomb00 wrote: »

This is not a good attitude that helps the game in any way. Everyone's entitled to the way they enjoy the game AS LONG AS they respect the way others enjoy the game.

I disagree completely. Min-maxers are the bane of every MMO. If you look through the forums posts, even today's, you will find threads where players are complaining about rudeness in PvP and getting kicked from groups. Who do you think is perpetrating these behaviours? It's the min-maxers - the people who don't grasp the point of RPGs. We're better off without them.

lol, u walking around in your house moving chairs around will make this game last long....good luck with that